Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

pvcpipe

EOG Master
I've decided to bet a system based on fading the wagerline consensus. The system is simple. Any favorite with about 1000 or so picks that registers a >75% consensus, I'm fading. Any dog with about 1000 or so picks that registers >55%, I'm fading. I will attempt to track these plays every day, for the benefit of the board. The public dogs have been traditionally strong fades, and as time goes on, I may tweak the system with MM and vary the units on these plays. For now, I'm going to keep it simple and see what happens.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

11/30

Fordham -12

Just over 55% of the public is on Manhattan + the points here, so I'll take my chances with Fordham. New Orleans + just missing the cut, as just under 75% of wagerline picks are on Ole Miss. GL.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

12/1 (1-2) YTD: (1-3) -2.2u

No update for Saturday because I'm lazy and paying more attention to college football.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

Thanks, Trace. Not exactly exploding out of the gate, though.

12/3 (1-1)

YTD: (2-4) -2.4u
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

No plays that fit the system for the second straight day. Bo-ring. Seeing about 75% on the Bradley game. Maybe we'll get a play out of it.
 

mgmhatesme

EOG Addicted
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

pvcpipe, I follow some of the same trends in my capping and like what you are doing here... It has a good basis for finding value... have you by chance taken a look deeper at some of the numbers?

You mention "1000 or so picks"... why 1000? Have you noticed if you have a larger number of picks you will have a higher success rate, or have you consider a blended approach of changing the percentages needed based on the sample size. If you have 2000 picks, you therefore will have a higher degree of confidence and the data means more because of the volume, so now a pick can be qualified at a lower percentage.

Unfortunately, there is probably nothing with amount of money wagered rather than # of picks. The lower amount per wager could be an indicator as well to avoid fading more sharp or semi-sharp bettors.

Line movement or lack of it would be nice to note as it will gauge how comfortable the sportsbooks feel about the situation and where they feel a need to entice bettors.

Do the stats change based on home and away? Should we look at entirely different sets of percentages based on home or away?

Also fading 75% favs and 55% dogs... why those percentages? Have you looked specifically at fading 70% favs and/or 60% dogs?

I ask only because I am curious... I think this is a good point to bring up to cappers and dive into more heavily because it introduces a concept to easily find value using basically the ratings created by the oddsmakers and knowing that in a free market type of system that the books will need to create value for the other side to entice bettors. Unlike NFL, I do not have the time, knowledge, or experience to create ratings for teams and I need to rely more on the oddsmakers to do this for me and look for teams that may have value based on some of these things you are doing.

Criteria for success on this I think is just:
- finding best place for data on this, sportsinsights or whatever, and
- determining the exact relationship of, # of wagers, amount wagered, and percentages needed.

I am not sure if there is a perfect answer here... I look at the data, but go by "feel" on it... it would be nice to have a more mathematical answer.

thanks for any info and good luck to you-
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

MGM,

Unfortunately, this system is pretty mathmatically arbitrary at this point. I would love to use a higher sample such as 2000, and while this is possible for something like NFL, it isn't for college basketball. For example, only about 700 have picked a side on tonite's Duke/Holy Cross match-up at this time, but it will be about a thousand by tip-off. Because the lines are released only 24 hours in advance in CBB, a sample of 1000 is the most practical to use.

The percentage consensus is also fairly abitrary, and I plan on adjusting it as time goes along. I use 75% for favorites, because 750/250 is a substantial split. And while virtually all games have a higher % on the favorites, I wanted to narrow the "favorite fades" down to those few that the public overwhelmingly likes. Thus, the 75% figure. I use a much smaller figure, 55%, for the "dog fades," because it is so rare that the public majority favors an underdog. Even a small majority on an underdog is pause for thought. My theory on the "dog fade" is that most books get rich off squares betting into favorites. Most (not all, of course) of these same squares bet the occasional dog that appears to be appealing. (e.g. Ravens +3 at Cinci last Thurs.). The square bettor will still lose, though he thinks there's nothing square about taking points.

Moreover, Vegas is going to get theirs. Whether it's by the public betting into the favorite, or by hanging a deceptively appealing line on a dog. And while I'm familiar with the concept of vegas wanting "even money" on both sides, I staunchly believe that Joe Random will lose year in and year out on sports betting. This system is a way to bet with the house, and against the average player, by identifying the bets that a square player would be most likely to make.
 

mgmhatesme

EOG Addicted
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

Hey, I bet the Ravens on Thur...

Anyway, I agree with you here

Even at 700 picks, would you consider playing Holy Cross then at 80% on Duke? I think you can combine it to get a higher number of plays that qualify. At 1500 picks, perhaps you can take Holy Cross with 70% on Duke, rather than needed 75%.

Perhaps on ranked teams, you could use a lower percentage to fade against.

I like the idea for narrowing down teams for finding value, but I have not the time or tools to crunch the numbers and find more of a systematic approach. I think that for a value system such as this to work, you are really looking at something that would perform better over 1000 picks rather than 10 picks.

I think what you have laid out is a good approach, I was just curious as to diving further into the idea, to look at getting more plays to fit the system that would still provide a winning long-term percentage. More of an understanding of the entire trend, the entire graph of winning percentage vs consensus percentage, and looking at only home teams, only away teams, unranked vs ranked teams, etc... to see if there are ways to further refine on what you are doing.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

MGM,

I wish I had more than a strong hunch. A graphical analyis of a system such as this would be incredible, if one existed. Hopefully this system is a step in the right direction to such an analysis, and I welcome constructive criticism and ideas to tweak the system as the season goes along. I appreciate your input and interest.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

12/6:

Here we go:
N'eastern +23.5
Holy Cross +20
La Tech +4.5
Fordham +16
South Alabama +6.5
Mizzou State -21.5
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

12/6 (1-5) -4.4u

YTD: (3-9) -6.8u

Wow. This system is really dominating. How ironic that people are probably fading the system that fades people. One play for tonite.

12/7
Miami (OH) +2
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

Took the week off. I'm dedicated to staying the course, at least until mid-january. If it gets worse than -20 units, I'll keep tracking but stop playing.

YTD: -7.9u

12/13
Wisconsin -22
Umass +7.5
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

12/13 (1-1) -.1u

YTD: (4-11) -8.0u

In my first attempt to tweak the system, as it is apparent I'm being dominated, I am increasing the public consensus on a dog to 58%.
 

Trace Fields

EOG Addicted
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

This system might not turn until Jan conference play as right now it is WYSIWYG, Feb should be golden.
 

GotTheLife

EOG Member
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

I'm new at this forum. I will be interested in following this thread. I hope you keep it going for a while, give your system a chance. Thanks and good luck.
 

easymoney

EOG Member
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

I like the system, but I think you need to look at it after January 1. Let all the nonsense out of conference games get over with and let the teams get about 10-12 games under their belt and then start. I think you will see much better results.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

easymoney,

a couple of pros have told me the same thing. i am hoping it turns around when conference play starts. starting to see some improvement already.
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: Pvcpipe's Contrarian System Plays

12/22

houston +3.5
akron -3

i apologize for the akron past post. it fit the system, but i missed the tip ten minutes ago. i am going to include it for tracking purposes, anyway.
 
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