QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

I

IHaveBeenAround

EOG Addicted
Mr. Bow,

Since you are one of the only people from the inside that post I was wondering what your opinion was on how Pinnacle made money dealing reduced juice when no one else seems to be able to pull it off. The other places with reduced juice right now have a hard time dealing to smart players and I don't understand why Pinnacle can do it and no one else can. I know people say they were sharp and I am sure that much is true but are the sharpest? The smartest? So smart that no one else can figure out what to do? They are the only wants that solved the puzzle?

Love your posts and insight.
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

I can answer that even though you asked rainbow...

It's because Pinnacle does (did) tremendous volume and they also bet out elsewhere scalping, etc...

Also, if you stop and think for a second, a shop that does 3 times the volume at 105 figures to earn more than a shop dealing 110 and Pinnacle qualifies....
 
Reload

Reload

2
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

They were better at bookmaking than anyone else. After risking six figures worth of bet volume with them in three years, I ended up down about $400. That says it all right there. High volumes and slight profits from them add up.
 
Chuck Sims

Chuck Sims

EOG Dedicated
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the the same "insider" that attacked people for daring to expose BetOnSports...Millennium and the other crooked sportsbooks that went belly up and stiffed everyone. The poster "Rainbow" said said these crooks were safe all the way until the end.

Insght? What insight? LOL! He has attacked people for calling out BetUS. His motives are transparrent.
 
A

acek5

2
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

THE SHRINK said:
I can answer that even though you asked rainbow...

It's because Pinnacle does (did) tremendous volume and they also bet out elsewhere scalping, etc...

Also, if you stop and think for a second, a shop that does 3 times the volume at 105 figures to earn more than a shop dealing 110 and Pinnacle qualifies....
Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance...what does "scalping" mean?
 
The General

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

Chuck, when it boils down to a gunfight within the offshore business/Industry, you are carrying a dull knife vs rainbow's semi auto rifle.
 
The General

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

acek5 said:
Pardon my ignorance...what does "scalping" mean?
Click to expand...


Play +102 on one team ML & vs +105 on the other team ML at different books.

$100 to win $102 & $100 to win $105. Guaranteed money. Proposition scalps are widely available.
 
A

acek5

2
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

The General said:
Play +102 on one team ML & vs +105 on the other team ML at different books.

$100 to win $102 & $100 to win $105. Guaranteed money. Proposition scalps are widely available.
Click to expand...

I see...thanks for the clarification. I rarely bet props....Much appreciated!!
 
mofome

mofome

Banned
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

rainbow seems like a good guy to me. bright and humble for the most part, occasional joke thrown in from time to time. good dude.
 
I

IHaveBeenAround

EOG Addicted
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

Chuck Sims said:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the the same "insider" that attacked people for daring to expose BetOnSports...Millennium and the other crooked sportsbooks that went belly up and stiffed everyone. The poster "Rainbow" said said these crooks were safe all the way until the end.

Insght? What insight? LOL! He has attacked people for calling out BetUS. His motives are transparrent.
Click to expand...

You owe Rainbow an apology and I am sure you are confused. A direct quote from him was "I wouldn't bet with BOS if you had a gun to my head. I would tell you to pull the trigger". He also said that BetUs owes people in the industry from interest owed on slow pays.
 
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The General

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

Chuck Sims said:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the the same "insider" that attacked people for daring to expose BetOnSports...Millennium and the other crooked sportsbooks that went belly up and stiffed everyone. The poster "Rainbow" said said these crooks were safe all the way until the end.

Insght? What insight? LOL! He has attacked people for calling out BetUS. His motives are transparrent.
Click to expand...

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the the same "insider" that attacked innocent women on my board with very rude, womanizing slander, and courtesy that of a sick animal.
 
I

IHaveBeenAround

EOG Addicted
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

THE SHRINK said:
I can answer that even though you asked rainbow...

It's because Pinnacle does (did) tremendous volume and they also bet out elsewhere scalping, etc...

Also, if you stop and think for a second, a shop that does 3 times the volume at 105 figures to earn more than a shop dealing 110 and Pinnacle qualifies....
Click to expand...

Maybe you are right about betting and scalping but If your handle is several million a day and 10x that on the weekends during football season versus betting maybe 100-150k a game basketball and maybe 500-1 million on NFL. I do not know I am only guessing about numbers and going by what others told me and all of that is only if you great at getting down.I do not see how their betting could be significant enough to offset booking to sharp players, transaction costs. I know no one likes to talk specific numbers but if my numbers are off maybe someone can tell me.

I think it is possible that I am overstating the amount of people that can win at sportsbetting but it seems like with such small straddles and the way they let you sell points, coupled with line movement and volitility, they would end with big positions all the time (for example) at -108 and +110 which is of course a losing proposition.
 
I

IHaveBeenAround

EOG Addicted
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

We all know that bookmakers are some of the biggest bettors around. Bookies know how to place bets so there has to be more than betting and scalping. I don't think we will know for a long time how innovative and progressive what they offered everyone was. I know the bookies hated them because of transfers and because they kicked EVERYONE's ass on booking and product offering but as a player, they are missed. Thanks to the government, everyone will be laying 11 to 10 for a long time because the big, safe places refused to compete with them.
 
rainbow

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

THE SHRINK said:
I can answer that even though you asked rainbow...

It's because Pinnacle does (did) tremendous volume and they also bet out elsewhere scalping, etc...

Also, if you stop and think for a second, a shop that does 3 times the volume at 105 figures to earn more than a shop dealing 110 and Pinnacle qualifies....
Click to expand...
AMEN,I couldn?t have said it any better...
 
rainbow

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

Chuck Sims said:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the the same "insider" that attacked people for daring to expose BetOnSports...Millennium and the other crooked sportsbooks that went belly up and stiffed everyone. The poster "Rainbow" said said these crooks were safe all the way until the end.

Insght? What insight? LOL! He has attacked people for calling out BetUS. His motives are transparrent.
Click to expand...
I REALLY SAID THEY WERE SAFE ALLTHE WAY TO THE END, EVIDENTLY YOU CAN?T COMPREHEND WHAT YOU READ, WHAT I SAID WAS YOU KNOW ZILCH ABOUT THIS INDUSTRY, JC STARTS THE THREADS AND YOU PILE ON TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK GOOD, I HANDICAPPED YOU ALONG TIME AGO, AND I WAS RIGHT ABOUT YOU, AND BY THE WAY HOWS YOUR INVESTIGATION GOING WITH VIP.COM SLOW PAYING THOSE PEOPLE, ANY EVIDENCE YET? I DONT SEE HOW YOU CAN COME ON THIS FORUM AND TELL A FLAT OUT LIE ABOUT ME SAYING I SAID IS WAS SAFE TO BET AT BOS, YOU ARE REALLY UNBELIEABLE...
 
JC

JC

EOG Veteran
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

My two cents:

Pinnacle was not a bookmaker but a betting syndicate that used bookmaking to enhance their advantage. Any money they made from bookmaking was just gravy.

Bets that they would have been happy laying 110 on in the past were now being steered to them at +105 or +103. Steered through their leans.

By taking all comers and KNOWING all comers, they were able to pick and choose what they hedged and over hedged. They also used their customers to shape their leans.

They had tremendous volume and games they had no interest in as a group had a theoretical hold of 2.25% and they probably held between 1% and 3% on those games at the end of the year.
 
S

Slylite

EOG Member
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

NOW JC knows the industry.:thumbsup Not others that think they do.

Well stated JC.
 
rainbow

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

JC said:
My two cents:

Pinnacle was not a bookmaker but a betting syndicate that used bookmaking to enhance their advantage. Any money they made from bookmaking was just gravy.

Bets that they would have been happy laying 110 on in the past were now being steered to them at +105 or +103. Steered through their leans.

By taking all comers and KNOWING all comers, they were able to pick and choose what they hedged and over hedged. They also used their customers to shape their leans.

They had tremendous volume and games they had no interest in as a group had a theoretical hold of 2.25% and they probably held between 1% and 3% on those games at the end of the year.
Click to expand...
HOW SO TRUE ALL FOUR PARAGRAPHS ARE, I CAN REMEMBER IN THE EARLY 1980?S WHEN HE WAS BETTING THEM SYNDICATE PLAYS, EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS ALL TRUE, I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SAY IF I THOUGHT ANY DIFFERENT...
 
T

TONY MONTANA

2
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

JC said:
My two cents:

Pinnacle was not a bookmaker but a betting syndicate that used bookmaking to enhance their advantage. Any money they made from bookmaking was just gravy.

Bets that they would have been happy laying 110 on in the past were now being steered to them at +105 or +103. Steered through their leans.

By taking all comers and KNOWING all comers, they were able to pick and choose what they hedged and over hedged. They also used their customers to shape their leans.

They had tremendous volume and games they had no interest in as a group had a theoretical hold of 2.25% and they probably held between 1% and 3% on those games at the end of the year.
Click to expand...


there you have it!! i was speaking with ken and some others about this same topic and their response was very similar but it wasn't as clear to me until now!! thanks:thumbsup jc
 
The Devil

The Devil

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

I THINK I HAVE SAID THIS MANY TIMES BEFORE.....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GIVE OUT BONUS MONEY, REDUCED JUICE ETC AND BE A BOOKMAKER......YOU HAVE TO HAVE PLENTY OF GAMBLE, AND THEN YOU MUST BE A SUCESSFUL GAMBLER........

OR YOU BECOME THE NEXT ACES GOLD........
 
rainbow

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

The Devil said:
I THINK I HAVE SAID THIS MANY TIMES BEFORE.....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GIVE OUT BONUS MONEY, REDUCED JUICE ETC AND BE A BOOKMAKER......YOU HAVE TO HAVE PLENTY OF GAMBLE, AND THEN YOU MUST BE A SUCESSFUL GAMBLER........

OR YOU BECOME THE NEXT ACES GOLD........
Click to expand...
AGREED 100%, TOO BIG OF A NUT TO OVER COME, PINNACLE IS REAL SHARP, BUT IF I HAD TO CHOOSE A BOOKMAKER IT WOULD BE DELMAR LARRY, I SEEN OUT MY OWN EYES WHAT THIS MAN CAN DO, I KNOW SPIRO, AND PINNACLE ARE BOTH VERY SHARP, BUT FROM MY EXPERIENCES I WOULD DEFINTELY CHOOSE LARRY OVER ANYBODY LIVING WHEN HE WAS MOVING THE NUMBERS, SO MANY DAYS HE KNEW EXACTLY WHICH WAY THE LINE WAS GOING, I?M NOT TALKING ABOUT A COUPLE OF GAMES, I?M TALKING ABOUT 3/4 OF THE WHOLE SHEET, THIS MAN BELONGS IN THE HALL OF FAME FOR BOOKING, I DONT CARE WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT HIM IN A BOOK, THE MAN WAS THE SHARPEST I?VE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE BAR NONE, HE WAS A LEGEND IN HIS DAYS, SO MANY DAYS HE PUT SO MANY WISEGUYS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE GAME, UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF TIMES I SEEN HIM DO THAT...
 
I

IHaveBeenAround

EOG Addicted
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

Great thread. Thanks for all the reponses. This is the kind of stuff we need more often. Rainbow, 2 questions. Was Larry all feel when he knew which way the lines would move or did he have a better handicapper? And how did he book to somebody like BW in college basketball that never seems to lose.
 
rainbow

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

IHaveBeenAround said:
Great thread. Thanks for all the reponses. This is the kind of stuff we need more often. Rainbow, 2 questions. Was Larry all feel when he knew which way the lines would move or did he have a better handicapper? And how did he book to somebody like BW in college basketball that never seems to lose.
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1. He had more than one HANDICAPER, and he knew how to use information better than anybody I witnessed in my life, and he could tell you practically evertime if the game that just blacked out on the screen was real or phony.
2. Very few times he actually stopped BW from playing his game, SIMPLY because he had already got alot of money bet on the opposite side before BW ever come in and asked for the game, I?m not LYING, LARRY was the BEST I?ve ever seen in my entire life, over the years I can?t recall experiencing any BOOKIES that actually put the WISEGUYS on the WRONG SIDE of so many games like LARRY did for fun, this man was one of a kind, and he KNOWS it, he will BRAGG, but its all true...
 
I

IHaveBeenAround

EOG Addicted
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

Sounds like he could of made a big $$$ betting (or maybe he did). I remember when his lines were on Don Best they never seemed nothing special. Seemed like he came up late and was always right in the middle of everyone. I ain't doubting you one bit cause you was there and you seen it with your own eyes, I'm just saying how things look from the outside sometimes, well you just can't tell what is going on.
 
rainbow

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

IHaveBeenAround said:
Sounds like he could of made a big $$$ betting (or maybe he did). I remember when his lines were on Don Best they never seemed nothing special. Seemed like he came up late and was always right in the middle of everyone. I ain't doubting you one bit cause you was there and you seen it with your own eyes, I'm just saying how things look from the outside sometimes, well you just can't tell what is going on.
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BACK THAN HE WAS FORCED TO PUT PHONIES ON THE DONBEST SCREEN, BECAUSE PRACTICALLY EVERYONE ON THE SCREEN RESPECTED HIS LINE THE MOST AND SO MANY WOULD COPY, THEY DIDN?T HAVE ONE LINE ON THE WHOLE DONBEST SCREEN THAT HAD A BEETER LINE THAN DELMAR, JUST ASK AROUND, EVERYBODY KNEW HE HAD THE STRONGEST LINE ON THE SCREEN, ANYWAY I WOKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT BACK TO BED,,,
 
The General

The General

Another Day, Another Dollar
Re: QUESTION FOR RAINBOW

These days, how often do the originators put up the fakes to teach a lesson to the clone shops?
 
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