2008 Presidential Candidates

LouieTheLip

EOG Member
are there any other candidates besides Rep Ron Paul of Texas that have a track record of voting against and speaking out against any online gambling laws? Or should we all get behind him?

H.R. 4411 limits the ability of individual citizens to use bank instruments, including credit cards or checks, to finance Internet gambling. This legislation should be rejected by Congress since the federal government has no constitutional authority to ban or even discourage any form of gambling.
In addition to being unconstitutional, H.R. 4411 is likely to prove ineffective at ending Internet gambling. Instead, this bill will ensure that gambling is controlled by organized crime. History, from the failed experiment of prohibition to today's futile ??war on drugs,'' shows that the government cannot eliminate demand for something like Internet gambling simply by passing a law. Instead, H.R. 4411 will force those who wish to gamble over the Internet to patronize suppliers willing to flaunt the ban. In many cases, providers of services banned by the government will be members of criminal organizations.
Even if organized crime does not operate Internet gambling enterprises, their competitors are likely to be controlled by organized crime. After all, since the owners and patrons of Internet gambling cannot rely on the police and courts to enforce contracts and resolve other disputes, they will be forced to rely on members of organized crime to perform those functions. Thus, the profits of Internet gambling will flow into organized crime. Furthermore, outlawing an activity will raise the price vendors are able to charge consumers, thus increasing the profits flowing to organized crime from Internet gambling. It is bitterly ironic that a bill masquerading as an attack on crime will actually increase organized crime's ability to control and profit from Internet gambling.
In conclusion, H.R. 4411 violates the constitutional limits on federal power. Furthermore, laws such as H.R. 4411 are ineffective in eliminating the demand for vices such as Internet gambling; instead, they ensure that these enterprises will be controlled by organized crime. Therefore I urge my colleagues to reject H.R. 4411, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Funding Prohibition Act.

 

JeffR

EOG Senior Member
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

Good question, Louie: In the House, 76 Democrats voted against the bill, as compared to 17 Republicans. 94% of Repubs supported HR4411. What you're asking is a bit complicated, because lots of Democrats oppose the bill but don't necessarily have the safety, the conviction, or the cojones to speak up against it. That's why the best technique in the past was simply to bottle up the bill in committee and not let it come to a vote. The strongest voice against it has been Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, now head of the Banking Committee. Here's a quote from him: "What kind of social, cultural authoritarianism are we practicing here? The fundamental principle of the autonomy of the individual is at stake today." But it's not an issue that a lot of politicos want to risk their career on. If you're interested in who opposed it, here's a list (this is the House bill, not the Senate one):
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll363.xml
 

The Devil

EOG Master
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

What you're asking is a bit complicated, because lots of Democrats oppose the bill but don't necessarily have the safety, the conviction, or the cojones to speak up against it.


JEFFR.......THAT STATEMENT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.............I THINK IF YOU USED REPUBLICANS INSTEAD OF DEMOCRATS, IT STILL WOULDN'T.....
 

JeffR

EOG Senior Member
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

Not sure what it is that you're not understanding Devil, but I'll put it another way: Even if one opposes the anti-gambling bill, it takes a certain amount of courage to vote against it. It takes even more courage to actively speak out against it. Our right to interact unestricted with offshore companies is a pretty low priority issue for most politicians, even if superficially they support our cause....
 
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

Barney Frank has always spoken out against it, but I bet if you asked all the leading candidates about it they haven't even thought about it or are aware of it. It sure didn't help that it passed as the Safe Ports Act in the Senate.
 

The Devil

EOG Master
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

Not sure what it is that you're not understanding Devil, but I'll put it another way: Even if one opposes the anti-gambling bill, it takes a certain amount of courage to vote against it. It takes even more courage to actively speak out against it. Our right to interact unestricted with offshore companies is a pretty low priority issue for most politicians, even if superficially they support our cause....


I AGREE WITH THAT STAEMENT JEFF.......I JUST DISAGREED WITH THE STAEMENT THAT DEMS OPPOSED AND DIDN'T SPEAK UP.......WHILE YOU MADE IT SOUND REPS COULDN'T BE IN THE SAME BOAT.....
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

I AGREE WITH THAT STAEMENT JEFF.......I JUST DISAGREED WITH THE STAEMENT THAT DEMS OPPOSED AND DIDN'T SPEAK UP.......WHILE YOU MADE IT SOUND REPS COULDN'T BE IN THE SAME BOAT.....


Well that is the Main Thought Process Devil... No matter how many Democrats every Voted for it in the past (not counting the Safe port Act), or even voted for it to get out of the House... it will always be blamed on ALL the republicans and Not Bill Frist and the Other DEMOCRATIC and REPUBLICAN Members that were on the Committee that allowed the bill to be attached.. At the meeting the other night we heard from SEVERAL different Sectors of the Industry and most Agreed this is not a Democrat/Republican thing.. It is an Individual decision. Until the Individual Voters decide that this is Not a Partisan Issue then we will get No where. Anyone that has ever Voted for this Legislation should be Voted against in the 08' Elections. It is not hard to do your Homework and see how these people vote. Lip Service means Nothing...How they Vote does no matter what Party. Bottom Line is at least 115 Democrats in the HOR voted for a Tougher measure to get out of the House for Frist to be able to do this.... WHY ARE THEY GETTING A FREE PASS AND ALL IS BLAMED ON THE REPUBS??? Hell even Pelosi and Other Top Democrats have said they don't support Online Wagering and have voted against it. Where is the Outrage there :+clueless
 

JeffR

EOG Senior Member
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

The biggest problem right now is that now that the law is in place, it's very difficult to reverse it, to get the toothpaste back in the tube. It's a lot easier to keep a law from being passed in the first place, than it is to reverse it once it's on the books. Voting to legalize online gambling is a little bit like supporting the porn industy: The First Amendment is important, but who wants to go on record as being "pro porn" in the Congress? You may recall that the Congress has passed several "anti-smut" internet provisions that were eventually struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. I'm sure that a lot of Democrats voted for those measures too, while holding their nose, because they didn't want to go into the next election with the label "soft on porn."

Sure, too many Dems were cowardly and got on the anti-gambling train too, but they weren't the ones driving the train and plotting the destination. Nor are they the ones beholden to the religious right for their jobs. The important thing to consider is that the only strong voices supporting internet gambling in Congress are on the left. That creates a 2 year window to get something done while the Dems control both chambers of congress. (And even that could change if Sen Tim Johnson's health in South Dakota were to take a turn for the worse).

The greatest potential for change would probably be for someone to mount a vigorous defense in a court case, that would truly lay the issues bare and publicize the cause. Because in a time of war with issues of troop escalation, wiretapping, detainee abuse, contractor fraud, and cooked intelligence on their plate, who in Congress really wants to spend their political capital on gambling? The other subtext in this debate is that too many gamblers were dumb enough to vote for Bush in the first place, and now want to cast the blame as widely as possible. Try looking in the mirror.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: 2008 Presidential Candidates

Long Live the Democrats who never do anything wrong....All the Democrats Voted for the Anti Gambling measure with a AK 47 to their head... Just another Right wing conspiracy to control the world...
 
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