USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

[THE SHRINK]

USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute



written March 31, 2007

The United States cannot spin the latest ruling by the WTO which once again reiterated that they were not in compliance with regards to their stance towards Internet gambling in Antigua.

In the past, Gretchen Hamel, a USTR spokeswoman, said in a typical distorted manner:

"Just like the 2005 WTO ruling, the most recent report does not contain any findings against U.S. state laws. It is important to emphasize, however, that nothing in the panel’s report undermines the broad, favorable results that the United States obtained from the WTO in April 2005."

Her diatribe concludes by saying, "Specifically, the WTO agreed with our position that the U.S. gambling laws protect public order and public morals."
I don't know what drug she was taking but I'd like to try it myself. Virtually everyone who has read the WTO ruling by now agrees that the United States lost.

Most recently, she stated, "We are reviewing our options."

So, what will be the next step for the USA?

Certainly, they can and probably will appeal the WTO ruling but that only buys them three months.

When all is said and done, I suspect the United States will have no other choice than to consider one of the following options in order to be in compliance with the WTO'S ruling:

1) Allow Antiguan companies unfettered access to the US market.

2) Outlaw ALL remote wagering in the US including horse racing, remote lottery sales, online and telephone sports betting within Nevada, and any other forms of intra-state wagering.

3) Negotiate a settlement with Antigua that allows Antigua based companies access to the US market, but under terms that could include some cooperation with the US government.

written by Kenneth B. Weitzner

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Guessing we have at least 3 more months of drama (appeal). DAMM!

 

[muskatel]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Shrink - thanks for the continual update on the situation. I would like to see the US embrace item 2:

"2) Outlaw ALL remote wagering in the US including horse racing, remote lottery sales, online and telephone sports betting within Nevada, and any other forms of intra-state wagering."

Horse racing is a dying industry and they don't deserve special privileges over other gambling businesses. Nevada - a state that allows legal prostitution and legal gambling - will make do, somehow.

I would prefer to see offshore gambling allowed/legalized/taxed/monitored, but I don't see that happening. The second option is where I would put my money.


:cheers

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Sorry guys, I am still a bit confused...exactly what does this potentially mean for the guys(and gals) in the U.S. that want to continue to place online sports wagers with the books? thanks JCC

 

[sean1]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

2 is not really an option.

They could pass a federal law to ban horse betting across state lines (Gov has right to regulate interstate commerce)

But to ban intrastate online lotteries and Vegas betting, they'd need a constitutional amendment which will never happen.

I vote for option 4.

Completely ignore the ruling and not give a shit about Antigua.

Our government invades sovereign nations, has not looked at the constitution in years, and breaks the US law every day. Why the hell are they gonna pay any attention to this one.

If Osama only ran a book...

-Sean

 

[THE SHRINK]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Sean,

I know for a fact that Antigua would not just sit back quietly and allow the US to violate a major WTO ruling...

And the US knows this too...

I already mentioned that if the US ignored this, then China could do the same towards recent favorable rulings towards US against China...

It's much more complex than you realize and I'd be willing to bet that the US will decide to enter into negotiations with Antigua to come up with some compromise....

 

[muskatel]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Good morning Shrink,

Do you have complete trust that the US Attorney General Gonzales will work with all parties (eg., Anigua government, WTO, President Bush) to comply with developing a truthful, appeasing decision?

 

[The Judge]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

I know for a fact that Antigua would not just sit back quietly and allow the US to violate a major WTO ruling...

And the US knows this too...

I have to agree with Ken here. The Antiguan government did not take this matter this far only to get the ruling that they wanted and then sit on their hands while the US ignores it. The potential damage to the US intelectual property copyrights is enormous and will not be taken lightly by our government. The US has consitently taken the position that the WTO is to be taken seriously and as hard as it may seem for some to believe, I do not see them attempting to sweep this under the rug as our international credibility is already at an all time low.

 

[ASKMEA?]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

I'd be willing to bet that the US will decide to enter into negotiations with Antigua to come up with some compromise....

Will go something like this, Listen guys we just threw in jail, the founder of a company you liscenes, for fraud, money laundering, and a bunch of other shit. So here is your compromise, shut the fuck up. As far as we are concerned all those places are run by the same kind of charecters, and besides we have shut down the money proccessors, so they gonna dry up anyway. Now go pick on someone your own size, Sealand come to mind.

More or less thats it in a nutshell, I understand you and others would love to see it differently but it just aint gonna happen.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

a US liscensed company named Enron comes to mind here.

 

[Polaris]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

It is a long-shot that the WTO ruling will affect the US Government.

The USA was the prime motivator to have the WTO treaties implemented world wide I think. In short, without the efforts of USA, there would be no WTO.

All the USA would have to do is negotiate a clause with the other WTO members about "community standards", and write that into the trade treaties.

An America versus Antiugta trade war is the last thing in anyone's minds. It won't happen. It's unlikely this will go any further along the WTO path.

 

[CanuckKid]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Horse racing is a dying industry and they don't deserve special privileges over other gambling businesses.

You obviously don't know much about the online racebook industry do you? If it's a dying industry why are there more gamblers than ever betting on horses online?

 

[JC]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

All the USA would have to do is negotiate a clause with the other WTO members about "community standards", and write that into the trade treaties.

The US tried to raise an affirmative morals defense called Article XIV. It failed. They can't claim they are morally opposed to remote gaming while sanctioning remote gaming offered their own domestic operators.

 

[sean1]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

SO anyways, someone in the know, what happens next?

How long does the US have to appeal?

If they appeal, how long does the WTO have to review?

How long till Antigua can seek sanctions?

How long does the WTO have to decide, etc?

Can sanctions be appealed?

Sean

 

[JC]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

SO anyways, someone in the know, what happens next?

How long does the US have to appeal?

If they appeal, how long does the WTO have to review?

How long till Antigua can seek sanctions?

How long does the WTO have to decide, etc?

Can sanctions be appealed?

Sean

US has to file notice of appeal at the next WTO meeting. (I think) They have them once a month.

The entire appeal process will take about 90 days. It includes briefs filed by both sides, responses to briefs, oral arguments, usually questions presented by the panel to the parties that require written responses, an interim report that each party can comment on, and a final report.

If Antigua wins, there is no time limit for them to move for remedies. The remedy phase shouldn't take longer than 3 to 4 months. There is NO APPEAL of the remedy panel.

 

[The Judge]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

For those that believe that the US will simply ignore the WTO ruling, the action described below is a direct result of the WTO's ruling against China in favor of a complaint filed by the US. As noted in the article, this is a reversal of a 20 year old US trade policy. These things are taken very seriously.

In major escalation, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region> imposes tariffs on <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region></ST1
Action on paper could lead to other products<O</O
By: Steven Weisman
March 31, 2007<O</O
New York Times <O</O
<O</O
WASHINGTON ? The Bush administration, in a major escalation of trade pressure on China, said Friday that it would reverse more than 20 years of U.S. policy and impose potentially steep tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods on the grounds that China is illegally subsidizing some of its exports.

The action, announced by Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, signaled a tougher approach to C<st1:country-region w:st="on">hina</st1:country-region> at a time when the administration's campaign of quiet diplomacy by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. has produced few results.

The step also reflected the shift in trade politics since Democrats took control of Congress. The widening American trade deficit with China, which reached a record $232.5 billion last year, or about a third of the entire trade gap, has been seized upon by Democrats as a symbol of past policy failures that have led to the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Gutierrez's announcement has the immediate effect of imposing duties on two Chinese makers of high-gloss paper, one at 10.9 percent and the other 20.4 percent, calculated by adding up the supposedly illegal subsidies.

But trade and industry officials say future actions based on the department's new policy could lead to duties on imports of Chinese steel, plastics, machinery, textiles and many other products sold in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">United States</st1:country-region>, if as expected they seek relief and the department finds that they are harmed by illegal subsidies.

Gutierrez said that the administration's step was based on careful study of Chinese subsidy practices and was being carried out irrespective of any pressure from Congress.

A spokesman at the embassy of <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region>, Chu Maoming, said in <st1:State w:st="on">Washington</st1:State> that <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> expressed "strong objection" to the Commerce Department announcement, which he said sets a bad precedent that could damage China-U.S. relations.

The <st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region> stock market at first reacted negatively to the news, on fears that a trade war with <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> could erupt, harming the dollar as well as stocks of companies that rely on trade with <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region>. But stocks later recovered, ending the day barely changed.

Beyond seeking a review of the new policy in coming months, <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> is expected to challenge it in federal court and also at the World Trade Organization, but not through imposing tariffs of its own on American goods, according to lawyers who have been representing <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> in the dispute.

Democrats in Congress hailed the announcement by Gutierrez but said they would continue in their efforts to force a tougher policy on <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> through various pieces of legislation. Many Democrats won their elections last fall in part by advocating a tougher policy on trade with <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> and other countries whose labor and material costs are much lower than those of the <st1:country-region w:st="on">United States</ST1</st1:country-region>.

<O</O

 

[sean1]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Thanks JC.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

If the US agreed to open wagering to Antigua, but wanted the right to help license the people taking bets, be able to monitor accounts, names, cash movement, etc do you feel Antigua would go for it?

Sean

 

[JC]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Thanks JC.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

If the US agreed to open wagering to Antigua, but wanted the right to help license the people taking bets, be able to monitor accounts, names, cash movement, etc do you feel Antigua would go for it?

Sean

Antigua has definitely offered many of the things you mentioned in exchange for the ability to operate free from harassment. Up until now it has fallen on deaf ears.

I am told that the US historically doesn't really bother trying to comply with these things until they are right up against the sanctions.

 

[NickPappagiorgio]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Why doesnt the US just set up a Neteller like operation and then tax the payouts to the players as income? They would be able to get some revenue out of it that way.

 

[Mr. Smith]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

1. they wont do that
2. wont happen
3. they wont do that

the question is what happens after the US completely ignores this ruling, which they will.

 

[Mr. Smith]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Antigua is getting favorable rulings. hello other countries, why arent you piling on?

costa rica and UK for starters should have started their own WTO complaints getting the ball in motion long ago as well.


the more countries that win rulings the more the dumbfuck US govt will realize they cant just ignore this

 

[BSims]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Sorry, but I still don't see this as having much impact. OK, China is ignoring a ruling and the U.S. will retaliate. Honestly, don't see where Antigua can do much in this regard.

I've seen the possibility that Antigua could legally ignore U.S. copyright laws. But even if they could, I don't know how they could market the stuff here.

Now if the WTO said they could ignore these laws, and legally sell the copied products to U.S. citizens, that would be a different story. However, I doubt this is possible.

 

[BSims]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Why doesnt the US just set up a Neteller like operation and then tax the payouts to the players as income? They would be able to get some revenue out of it that way.

Nick, I've thought this would be a good alternative. Unfortunately, greedy governments tend to want to overdue the tax stuff. Just look at the current disarray in tax laws relative to gambling wins and losses to see that not much thought has been put into this area.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Have often wondered why Costa Rica and the UK have not filed complaints also. Am thinking that (TO THEM) it's not such a big issue as it is to Antigua. But no idea.

 

[NickPappagiorgio]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

I've seen the possibility that Antigua could legally ignore U.S. copyright laws. But even if they could, I don't know how they could market the stuff here.

Now if the WTO said they could ignore these laws, and legally sell the copied products to U.S. citizens, that would be a different story. However, I doubt this is possible.

BSims-

They can ignore US intellectual property, but only on their island. They cannot market pirated products overseas.s

 

[JC]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

BSims-

They can ignore US intellectual property, but only on their island. They cannot market pirated products overseas.s

Not necessarily so. They will ask the remedy panel for a worldwide pass. I believe they will grant it.

 

[NickPappagiorgio]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

JC-

I know they cannot infringe on intellectual property and sell it in the US, Im not sure about the rest of the world though.

 

[The Judge]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

Have often wondered why Costa Rica and the UK have not filed complaints also. Am thinking that (TO THEM) it's not such a big issue as it is to Antigua. But no idea.

With the ruling in place, other countries that license internet gambling will now indeed be able to request the same of the WTO. To this point, the UK has not due in part to the very strong political and trade alliances that the US has with them and also because the matter is not nearly important to them as it is to Antigua's tiny economy. Antigua has now cleared the way for the rest of the world and I am sure that we will see many others jump on board.

To put the impact on Antigua's economy into perspective, income for the 32 registered online casinos in Antigua and Barbuda has fallen to $130 million a year from $1 billion in 2000, according to the Antiguan government. In 2005, the entire gross national product for Antigua had dropped to $890 million.

What would you do if you now were given the opportunity to expolit US intellectual properties?

 

[JC]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

That's what they will ask for and it will be for the Remedy Panel to decide. There are NO APPEALS for the Remedy phase.

The UK can't bring a case on its own. The EU speaks with one voice at the WTO. It would have to be brought by the entire European Union. Despite their support of Antigua's case as a third party, they can't seem to agree amongst themselves on the issue.

 

[Whoson1st]

Re: USA compliance options after WTO favors Antigua in Internet Gambling dispute

That's what they will ask for and it will be for the Remedy Panel to decide. There are NO APPEALS for the Remedy phase.

The UK can't bring a case on its own. The EU speaks with one voice at the WTO. It would have to be brought by the entire European Union. Despite their support of Antigua's case as a third party, they can't seem to agree amongst themselves on the issue.

At last, some clarity on this issue!