Will BERNIE WILLIAMS be inducted into the HOF? :+clueless :cheers :+clueless :cheers
VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
- Thread starter THE SHRINK
- Start date
dirty
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
If He gets in the Hall I will never watch a Baseball Game again... and will hire someone to blow the Hall of Fame up because it will all be a disgrace to anyone who ever laced up the Cleats and performed at a High level and earn their way to Cooperstown
If He gets in the Hall I will never watch a Baseball Game again... and will hire someone to blow the Hall of Fame up because it will all be a disgrace to anyone who ever laced up the Cleats and performed at a High level and earn their way to Cooperstown
winkyduck
TYVM Morgan William!!!
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
DO NOT discount the fact he played his entire career for NYY
if close - this will get him in
should it - ?????????????????????????
but it very well might after all it got Phil Rizutto in and he has no business being in
DO NOT discount the fact he played his entire career for NYY
if close - this will get him in
should it - ?????????????????????????
but it very well might after all it got Phil Rizutto in and he has no business being in
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
I had a feeling many intelligent posters would be on opposite ends of the spectrum on this guy, but I did not think we'd agree and surprisingly we do for the most part...
Being a Yankee fan or not shouldn't matter in the evaluation of Bernie Williams. (you state iT will help that he played for the Evil Empire but it won't and shouldn't)...
Let's examine the merits...
BERNIE WILLIAMS is a 5 time ALL-STAR and 4 time GOLD-GLOVER...
His career average is .297, he has well over a hit/game played (2336/2076), which is more then can be said for HOF'rs Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski.
He has 1301 runs, 1196 RBI's, and 275 HR's.
Even more impressive are his post-season stats.
<B>He has 22 HR's, 83 runs and 80 RBI's, all of which are POST SEASON RECORDS!!!</B>
While no one is going to mistake Bernie Williams for Willie Mays, he does deserve to be in the HOF for his regular and post-season play, especially if Ozzie Smith (career .262 hitter) and Bill Mazeroski (.260) are HOF worthy.
I had a feeling many intelligent posters would be on opposite ends of the spectrum on this guy, but I did not think we'd agree and surprisingly we do for the most part...
Being a Yankee fan or not shouldn't matter in the evaluation of Bernie Williams. (you state iT will help that he played for the Evil Empire but it won't and shouldn't)...
Let's examine the merits...
BERNIE WILLIAMS is a 5 time ALL-STAR and 4 time GOLD-GLOVER...
His career average is .297, he has well over a hit/game played (2336/2076), which is more then can be said for HOF'rs Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski.
He has 1301 runs, 1196 RBI's, and 275 HR's.
Even more impressive are his post-season stats.
<B>He has 22 HR's, 83 runs and 80 RBI's, all of which are POST SEASON RECORDS!!!</B>
While no one is going to mistake Bernie Williams for Willie Mays, he does deserve to be in the HOF for his regular and post-season play, especially if Ozzie Smith (career .262 hitter) and Bill Mazeroski (.260) are HOF worthy.
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
NO CHANCE IN FUCN HELL, no need to even start a thread on him.
Harold Baines, Jim Rice, Fred McGriff get a thread, BERNIE does not even deserve a thread.
NO CHANCE IN FUCN HELL, no need to even start a thread on him.
Harold Baines, Jim Rice, Fred McGriff get a thread, BERNIE does not even deserve a thread.
dirty
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
You can take Ozzie out of that equation Ken... he was a shortstop who played Most of his career in an Era when Middle Infielders were not required to produce...Then along came Cal Ripken and Ryne Sandberg and things slowly started changing. They were the only 2 MIF's that produced big numbers until the early to Mid 90's came along.... Ozzie was the best Defensive SS to every play. He got to more baseballs than anyone else therefore having more chances... At the end of his career he adapted and started Hitting .300 because he had to to stay on the field when he slowed down. Ozzie would have hit Higher if he would have had to, that is just how good he was
An OF with The Stats Bernie has is Laughable at best to be in the HOF unless his career is cut short...Not someone who played who played 16 years and in 14 of those he played well over 100 games...
You can take Ozzie out of that equation Ken... he was a shortstop who played Most of his career in an Era when Middle Infielders were not required to produce...Then along came Cal Ripken and Ryne Sandberg and things slowly started changing. They were the only 2 MIF's that produced big numbers until the early to Mid 90's came along.... Ozzie was the best Defensive SS to every play. He got to more baseballs than anyone else therefore having more chances... At the end of his career he adapted and started Hitting .300 because he had to to stay on the field when he slowed down. Ozzie would have hit Higher if he would have had to, that is just how good he was
An OF with The Stats Bernie has is Laughable at best to be in the HOF unless his career is cut short...Not someone who played who played 16 years and in 14 of those he played well over 100 games...
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
BERNIE played his best Baseball when the Yankees rekindled themselves as a dynasty winning 4 out of 5 World Series in the late 90's...
Ask yourself, who was their MAIN GUY during that time and could they have won them without BERNIE?
HELL NO!
I think what pushes Williams into the Hall of Fame is this: As I stated above, the Yankees of 1995-2005 will go down as a dynasty team. The one constant on that team, the one player who was a full-timer since the beginning of the dynasty is Bernie Williams. During those years he played a key defensive position and provided superb glovework for the majority of it, while providing a level of offense for the position that was arguably of Hall of Fame caliber. In this current era of the American League, he is second only to an All-Century player in center field.
And he did it with class.
BERNIE played his best Baseball when the Yankees rekindled themselves as a dynasty winning 4 out of 5 World Series in the late 90's...
Ask yourself, who was their MAIN GUY during that time and could they have won them without BERNIE?
HELL NO!
I think what pushes Williams into the Hall of Fame is this: As I stated above, the Yankees of 1995-2005 will go down as a dynasty team. The one constant on that team, the one player who was a full-timer since the beginning of the dynasty is Bernie Williams. During those years he played a key defensive position and provided superb glovework for the majority of it, while providing a level of offense for the position that was arguably of Hall of Fame caliber. In this current era of the American League, he is second only to an All-Century player in center field.
And he did it with class.
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dirty
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Great post Teamer
Dale Murphy Deserves the Hall More than Bernie does... 398 homers, 2 MVP's, 2111 Hits, 1266 RBI's, 7 time All Star, 5 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Slugger awards.....the Only other player in the NL more feared in the 80's was Mike Schmidt....
Great post Teamer
Dale Murphy Deserves the Hall More than Bernie does... 398 homers, 2 MVP's, 2111 Hits, 1266 RBI's, 7 time All Star, 5 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Slugger awards.....the Only other player in the NL more feared in the 80's was Mike Schmidt....
The Devil
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
THE SCOOTER GOT IN ON AN OLD TIMERS VOTE, NOT A VOTE FROM THE SPORTSWRITERS. RIZZUTO HAD A LOT OF FRIENDS ON THAT OLD TIMERS COMMITTEE, BERNIE DOESN'T HAVE THOSE CONNECTIONS.
AGREE, RIZZUTO DOESN'T BELONG EITHER.
THE SCOOTER GOT IN ON AN OLD TIMERS VOTE, NOT A VOTE FROM THE SPORTSWRITERS. RIZZUTO HAD A LOT OF FRIENDS ON THAT OLD TIMERS COMMITTEE, BERNIE DOESN'T HAVE THOSE CONNECTIONS.
AGREE, RIZZUTO DOESN'T BELONG EITHER.
Cobbler
EOG Addicted
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
I would think a player would have to be in the top 10 in MVP voting more than once in his career before being seriously considered for the HOF. Only 2300 hits, and not even 300 home runs for the career...decent numbers but far from special.
I would think a player would have to be in the top 10 in MVP voting more than once in his career before being seriously considered for the HOF. Only 2300 hits, and not even 300 home runs for the career...decent numbers but far from special.
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
ALL DAY LONG:cheers
ALL DAY LONG:cheers
gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
The baseball HOF is probably the most exclusive group out of all of the HOF's out there. I say, no, Bernie does not enough to make it..
The baseball HOF is probably the most exclusive group out of all of the HOF's out there. I say, no, Bernie does not enough to make it..
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
This thread does one thing. It underrates rings. Bernie has rings, more than one. Doesnt' the 'ring' count for something?
An NFL QB's career is complete with 1 ring. Winning 1 ring or none is HUGE. The difference between 0 and 1 rings is so big, that isn't 2 twice as good as one. I know i'm comparing apples and oranges with NFL vs MLB, but winning the WS is the highest achievement.
Btw, if players who played for the 'evil' empire get 'bonus points' how come Rizzuto isn't in the HOF?
This thread does one thing. It underrates rings. Bernie has rings, more than one. Doesnt' the 'ring' count for something?
An NFL QB's career is complete with 1 ring. Winning 1 ring or none is HUGE. The difference between 0 and 1 rings is so big, that isn't 2 twice as good as one. I know i'm comparing apples and oranges with NFL vs MLB, but winning the WS is the highest achievement.
Btw, if players who played for the 'evil' empire get 'bonus points' how come Rizzuto isn't in the HOF?
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Absolutely no way.
According to Wikipedia, here are the career "highlights" of Williams...
Absolutely no way.
According to Wikipedia, here are the career "highlights" of Williams...
- Made his major league debut on July 7, 1991
- 5-time All-Star (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001)
- 1996 ALCS MVP
- 4-time Gold Glove Winner (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000)
- 1998 AL Batting Champion (.339 avg)
- 4-time World Series Champion (1996, 1998, 1999, 2000)
- In 1999 led American League in IBB (intentional walks) with 17
- Switch-hit home runs by teammates, one game Jorge Posada & Bernie Williams @ Toronto on April 23, 2000
- First and only player in MLB history to hit a home run from both sides of the plate in a postseason game- And he had done it twice (1995 ALDS and 1996 ALDS)
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
No, it doesn't. Baseball is a team game. Williams didn't carry the team. The Yankees can spend all the money they want to buy pennants, and they have. A single world championship by the Twins is greater than five Yankees world championships.
No, it doesn't. Baseball is a team game. Williams didn't carry the team. The Yankees can spend all the money they want to buy pennants, and they have. A single world championship by the Twins is greater than five Yankees world championships.
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
I strongly disagree...
Anyone who followed the NY Yankees during the recent DYNASTY years knows that BERNIE WILLIAMS was in the THICK of every single one of them and I sincerely doubt they'd have won 4 of them without Bernie...
His Post Season Numbers are RECORD SETTING, INCREDIBLE and should be enough to get him into the HOF by a nod...
<b>He has 22 HR's, 83 runs and 80 RBI's, all of which are POST SEASON RECORDS!!!</b>
THE SHRINK
I strongly disagree...
Anyone who followed the NY Yankees during the recent DYNASTY years knows that BERNIE WILLIAMS was in the THICK of every single one of them and I sincerely doubt they'd have won 4 of them without Bernie...
His Post Season Numbers are RECORD SETTING, INCREDIBLE and should be enough to get him into the HOF by a nod...
<b>He has 22 HR's, 83 runs and 80 RBI's, all of which are POST SEASON RECORDS!!!</b>
THE SHRINK
detroitdennis
EOG Veteran
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
BERNIE IN THE HALL OF FAME? NO WAY!!! JIM RICE IS NOT IN THE FAME...
BERNIE IN THE HALL OF FAME? NO WAY!!! JIM RICE IS NOT IN THE FAME...
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Let's not forget that he also holds the record for most postseason games played with 121 games. If Williams had averaged those kind of numbers during the regular season, his odds at getting in the HOF would be much, much better.
Williams played 16 seasons, but since he only played 147 games total in his first two seasons, lets just say for the sake of argument that he played 15 seasons. 1257 RBI and 287 HRs in fifteen seasons works out to 84 RBIs and 19 HRs a year. That is not HOF material.
Rings aside, I'd challenge the Yankee and Williams lovers to take the top ten OFs (preferably retired, but you can consider the soon to be retired as well) and compare their credentials to Williams and convince me why the ones who haven't been elected yet are less deserving than Williams.
Again, I could care less how many rings Williams has...those Yankee teams were the best money could buy, and bought they were. Put Williams on another team, any other team, and his career stats would be worse and he'd have much less postseason stats to show for his efforts. It's easy to be a big hitter in a lineup thats filled with big hitters, where they can't pitch around you. Williams wasn't chopped liver by any means, but he's no Hall of Famer either.
Let's not forget that he also holds the record for most postseason games played with 121 games. If Williams had averaged those kind of numbers during the regular season, his odds at getting in the HOF would be much, much better.
Williams played 16 seasons, but since he only played 147 games total in his first two seasons, lets just say for the sake of argument that he played 15 seasons. 1257 RBI and 287 HRs in fifteen seasons works out to 84 RBIs and 19 HRs a year. That is not HOF material.
Rings aside, I'd challenge the Yankee and Williams lovers to take the top ten OFs (preferably retired, but you can consider the soon to be retired as well) and compare their credentials to Williams and convince me why the ones who haven't been elected yet are less deserving than Williams.
Again, I could care less how many rings Williams has...those Yankee teams were the best money could buy, and bought they were. Put Williams on another team, any other team, and his career stats would be worse and he'd have much less postseason stats to show for his efforts. It's easy to be a big hitter in a lineup thats filled with big hitters, where they can't pitch around you. Williams wasn't chopped liver by any means, but he's no Hall of Famer either.
zerocage
2
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
:LMAO:LMAO
Alright player , not a great player. :smokesmal:smokesmal
:LMAO:LMAO
Alright player , not a great player. :smokesmal:smokesmal
gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Baseball is more statistics-driven than any other team sport. It is the most "individual" team sports of any team game out there.
When it comes to fans and the media, borderline great players are judged more for their stats than they are for their rings.
In football and basketball, this is a different story. The rings count much more in people's eyes..
Baseball is more statistics-driven than any other team sport. It is the most "individual" team sports of any team game out there.
When it comes to fans and the media, borderline great players are judged more for their stats than they are for their rings.
In football and basketball, this is a different story. The rings count much more in people's eyes..
gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Pete Rose signed a life-time ban. He signed it. There is a rule in place that is there for a reason -- if you bet on the game in any way form or fashion, even if it is betting on your own team, you CANNOT make the Hall of Fame.
Pete Rose signed a life-time ban. He signed it. There is a rule in place that is there for a reason -- if you bet on the game in any way form or fashion, even if it is betting on your own team, you CANNOT make the Hall of Fame.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Pete was one of my favorite players as a kid, but what he did and said and did not say was plenty of reason to keep him out forever. Plus he was a damn stiff, that should be good enough as well.
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
I forgot to mention the corollary of that law is that gridironguy's and ZZ's posts are always irrelelvant!
I forgot to mention the corollary of that law is that gridironguy's and ZZ's posts are always irrelelvant!
d ray
EOG Dedicated
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
With that arguement, Trent Dilfer must be a Hall of Famer????
Rizzuto is in the HOF.
:cocktail
With that arguement, Trent Dilfer must be a Hall of Famer????
Rizzuto is in the HOF.
:cocktail
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
No, no and no.
For Bernie Williams to even be considered a hall of famer only proves that the hall's standards have really fallen.
No, no and no.
For Bernie Williams to even be considered a hall of famer only proves that the hall's standards have really fallen.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
P.S. I guess because you like to endorse known stiffs. eh?
And why, pray tell, is that?
P.S. I guess because you like to endorse known stiffs. eh?
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Scooter was the 'susan lucci' of baseball players for a while, wasnt he? I guess they snuck him in when i wasn't looking.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
Holy Cow! Erica was fine back in the 70's!:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: VERY DIFFICULT BASEBALL HALL OF FAME QUESTION
I loved the 8-track by Meatloaf 'Bat Out Of Hell! I never knew that was Scooter doing the play-by-play on the duet on the album.........what's it gonna be, boy? I gotta know right now, will you love me forever, will you never leave me, will you make me your wife? Baby, baby, let me sleep on it....................I'll give you my answer in the morning....................