Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

[Road Dawg]

Stronach went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report

Updated Fri. Sep. 14 2007 7:57 AM ET


CTV.ca News Staff


Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.


Stronach's spokesman, Greg MacEachern, told the Toronto Star that the MP for Newmarket-Aurora had a "later-stage" operation in the U.S. after a Toronto doctor referred her.


"Belinda had one of her later-stage operations in California, after referral from her personal physicians in Toronto. Prior to this, Belinda had surgery and treatment in Toronto, and continues to receive follow-up treatment there," said MacEachern.


He said speed was not the reason why she went to California.


Instead, MacEachern said the decision was made because the U.S. hospital was the best place to have it done due to the type of surgery required.

Stronach was diagnosed last spring with ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS). The cancer is one of the more treatable forms but Stronach still required a mastectomy -- which was done in Toronto -- and breast reconstruction.

Stronach, who announced last April she would be leaving politics before the next election, paid for the surgery in the U.S., reports the Star.


"As we said back in June when we confirmed the surgery, this is a personal and private matter between Belinda, her family and her physicians. I think you'll understand that because of respect for Belinda's privacy, we refrained from offering specific details around her medical treatment," said MacEachern.


While it is rare for MPs to seek treatment outside Canada, MacEachern said Stronach was not lacking confidence in the system.


"In fact, Belinda thinks very highly of the Canadian health-care system, and uses it when needed for herself and her children, as do all Canadians. As well, her family has clearly demonstrated that support," MacEachern told the Star.


MacEachern did not offer any other details regarding what type of surgery Stronach had or what she paid for it.



CTV.ca | Stronach went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report

 

[Spytheweb]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

Let's say you're a poor woman in the US and you have breast cancer, you walk into a hospital and want to make a appointment to see a doctor, you have no health insurance. You say you will not leave until you're seen, that hospital will have security manhandle your @ss out the door. I bet in Canada you would recieve some type of treatment vs. the US zero.

 

[Road Dawg]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

Let's say you're a poor woman in the US and you have breast cancer, you walk into a hospital and want to make a appointment to see a doctor, you have no health insurance. You say you will not leave until you're seen, that hospital will have security manhandle your @ss out the door. I bet in Canada you would recieve some type of treatment vs. the US zero.

So Spy, let me ask you this. Do you feel you have a RIGHT to the time and expertise offered by a doctor OR, should you have to pay for it, the same as any other professional in any other career field?

 

[Nicolos_Darvas]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

Ill be damned -- I agree with one post the soft dog made. It is true the Canadian Health Care system is a non-starter.

 

[Spytheweb]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

So Spy, let me ask you this. Do you feel you have a RIGHT to the time and expertise offered by a doctor OR, should you have to pay for it, the same as any other professional in any other career field?

I would like to see the system changed so that healthcare is taken care of, so if i get sick they won't come and take my house to pay for the bill. Do you feel that people should be charged for public education, fire and police protection? Parks, librarys and roadways should all be pay as you go? Does the military have the right to be paid the same as Blackwater?

Alot of countries have a better system in place for it's citizens. America like the care for profit system. It's not about caring, it's about profit. Kind of like the Iraq war, it's not about winning, it's about making a profit.

In America, when it comes down to a dollar against your life, you gonna lose.
I myself wouldn't mind living in Canada (Nova Scotia), cheap cost of living, seafood, healthcare, nice people and their money, if not worth more will soon be.

 

[dirty]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

They can't and will not take your house to pay for a public Hospital Bill. That is some funny stuff right there..... And I think Education the Kids should have vouchers to go to Private schools where the kids actually learn something than stay in our dumbed down politically correct socialist school system. Private school kids score higher on average then public school kids at every turn.

 

[Road Dawg]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

I would like to see the system changed so that healthcare is taken care of, so if i get sick they won't come and take my house to pay for the bill. Do you feel that people should be charged for public education, fire and police protection? Parks, librarys and roadways should all be pay as you go? Does the military have the right to be paid the same as Blackwater?

Alot of countries have a better system in place for it's citizens. America like the care for profit system. It's not about caring, it's about profit. Kind of like the Iraq war, it's not about winning, it's about making a profit.

In America, when it comes down to a dollar against your life, you gonna lose.
I myself wouldn't mind living in Canada (Nova Scotia), cheap cost of living, seafood, healthcare, nice people and their money, if not worth more will soon be.

Healthcare should be the responsibility of the individual, not the collective. I will reiterate that if the government MANDATES that everyone has the "right" to the same healthcare, then the government is saying that you have a RIGHT to the time, effort, and expertise of a certain segment of society. That, in itself, is 100% wrong and would apply NO WHERE else in society.

Also, add that to the fact that submitting one's self over to ANY government run healthcare system also include submitting your self over to the government. You don't really think YOU would get a real choice as to what doctor you see, what kind of treatment you receive, or, more importantly, any recourse should that doctor foul something up in the treatment of whatever malady you might be suffering from?

I fail to understand why profit is such a dirty word. Profit, IMHO, is the single greatest driving force for the betterment of any product or service in our society today. Should doctors, nurses, PA's, or NP's not be allowed to earn profit for the service they provide? What factor would you use to separate doctors from carpenters, or plumbers, or pilots? The bottom line is that ALL of us should be allowed to ply our chosen trade and earn whatever profit our skills dictate in the OPEN market. The open market is the fairest and most economical way to provide ANYTHING.

As far as your question concerning other government services such as roads, education, and police, I, and everyone else that pays taxes are already being charged for those things, whether I use them or not. Furthermore, the people performing those services are allowed to make a profit. They earn this profit, based on several factors, including performance and experience. You don't think a cop is motivated to perform better with the idea of making detective or lieutenant or captain? The same thing with firemen. The construction companies that pave roads do so by bidding on the contract. Whichever company submits the lowest bid usually wins, but you can guarantee that company is STILL turning a profit on the bid. I'm not going to get into education because that is one GIGANTIC mess that needs to be fixed lest the scenario played out in the movie Idiocracy comes true.

Spy, name a few countries that have "better" systems that the US and please quantify what you feel is "better" about these systems.

Being in the military, I would dearly LOVE to be paid like those Blackwater Mercs. Alas, I knew what the pay scale was prior to signing up. I still make a pretty good living because I have cut the necessary corners to live within my means and still provide my family with a good standard of living.

Spy, I fully support your right to live wherever you choose and for whatever reason. I've been to several countries and have seen their systems. I'll take the US every time.

Like your avatar...

 

[Road Dawg]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

They can't and will not take your house to pay for a public Hospital Bill. That is some funny stuff right there..... And I think Education the Kids should have vouchers to go to Private schools where the kids actually learn something than stay in our dumbed down politically correct socialist school system. Private school kids score higher on average then public school kids at every turn.

As do those that are home schooled.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

US's schools suck because we do not hold the parents' responsible for their kids. Plus, many kids have no respect for the teachers and make themselves unteachable because they know the system does not allow the teachers or staff to touch them or basically, do anything to them. It's all about respect and motivation. Still, number one problem is (are) the parents !

 

[frankjohnson]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

The rich, the privlege, the top one tenth of a per cent come here for some very specialized treament. It's the rest of us the apoligist for health care greed don't give a shit about.

 

[Romanowski]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

we need healthcare reform but socilaized medicine certinaly isnt the answer

take the centralized power away from corporations and give it to another the state

madness

 

[Spytheweb]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

They can't and will not take your house to pay for a public Hospital Bill. That is some funny stuff right there..... And I think Education the Kids should have vouchers to go to Private schools where the kids actually learn something than stay in our dumbed down politically correct socialist school system. Private school kids score higher on average then public school kids at every turn.

They won't? I'am not talking about walking into a ER and getting acouple of pills. If your hospital stay requires you to stay for a month, the bill could range up to $100,000 dollars. These bills are real money makers. Hospitals are turning over their overdue accounts and or selling them to collection agencies, who in turn if they can't get the money, go to court and get a judement against you. If you own a house guess what happens?

My son went to a public schools in Nevada, his high school graduation rate was 99.8%. My son just graduated from New York University in May. I must say that he has always had good teachers and he has always been a hard worker.

Some people say that healthcare should be taken care of by the individual, does that include military personnel? Once their service ends so does the care from the government? What about those hurt in the war? Maybe you'll give them care for 6 months? Why should the government be stuck with healthcare for them?

 

[Spytheweb]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

Most republicans think, i'am not worried i have health insurance, i have a good job and have money. Healthcare system and insurance companies want you feel, need you to feel this way, keep feeding the monster. One day when you need them most, they're not there. After years of making $1000.00 a month payments, they Bush you, you're not covered, SUCKER.

This is a nice read. See what happened to this woman.


Part 1: When staying alive means going bankrupt - Gut_Check - MSNBC.com

 

[KTBKRUSHER]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">EVER HEARD OF A COUNTY HOSPITAL...WHICH ARE EVERYWHERE.
TO DUMB IT DOWN FOR YOU.
JUST LIKE ON ER....INSURANCE OR NOT...YOU GET TREATED
</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Spytheweb]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

There is a federal law that hospitals have to treat you for emegency care, and you know why such a law was made? Because hospitals didn't want to treat you if you didn't have any money. Let me dumb it down for you, you must think healthcare and emergency care are the same thing. If so, this mistake is going to cost you your life.


In 1986, Congress passed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, which forbids the practice known as patient dumping--denial of treatment to emergency patients or women in labor, or transferring them to another hospital in an unstable condition. Patients are usually "dumped" because they are poor or uninsured, but in recent years, there have been reports of patients with health insurance through health maintenance organizations (HMOs), or other forms of managed care, finding themselves the victims of patient dumping as well.
Patients in managed care may find themselves having their treatment delayed while the hospital seeks authorization for payment, having treatment denied if the authorization is refused, or being shuffled from one hospital to another in a dangerously unstable condition because their HMO has a contract with the second hospital.
The Act requires hospitals to screen all patients seeking emergency care and to provide treatment to stabilize emergency conditions. Unstabilized patients may not be transferred to another facility unless the medical benefits of the transfer outweigh its risks. The law applies to all hospitals participating in Medicare and offering emergency services, and it protects all patients seen by those hospitals, not just Medicare beneficiaries.
Hospitals that violate the Act may be banned from Medicare--a serious penalty since most hospitals rely on Medicare funds for a significant part of their revenues. Hospitals and doctors responsible for patient dumping may also be fined up to $50,000 for each offense. However, these penalties have seldom been used. From 1986 through March 1995, (the period covered by our earlier reports), HHS cited 503 hospitals for violations, but only 41 (8 percent) were penalized. Thirty-two hospitals and four doctors were fined, and nine hospitals were dropped from Medicare. Thus, for the vast majority of violators there is no penalty of any sort imposed. Given the increasing number of dumping complaints reported each year, HHS should use its authority more frequently to fine hospitals that violate the Act, and to send a message that such actions will not be tolerated.

 

[Spytheweb]

Re: Guess that Canadian Health Care isn't that great after all

Being without health insurance is no big deal. Just ask President Bush. "I mean, people have access to health care in America," he said last week. "After all, you just go to an emergency room."
This is what you might call callousness with consequences. The White House has announced that Mr. Bush will veto a bipartisan plan that would extend health insurance, and with it such essentials as regular checkups and preventive medical care, to an estimated 4.1 million currently uninsured children. After all, it's not as if those kids really need insurance - they can just go to emergency rooms, right?
O.K., it's not news that Mr. Bush has no empathy for people less fortunate than himself. But his willful ignorance here is part of a larger picture: by and large, opponents of universal health care paint a glowing portrait of the American system that bears as little resemblance to reality as the scare stories they tell about health care in France, Britain, and Canada.
The claim that the uninsured can get all the care they need in emergency rooms is just the beginning. Beyond that is the myth that Americans who are lucky enough to have insurance never face long waits for medical care.
Actually, the persistence of that myth puzzles me. I can understand how people like Mr. Bush or Fred Thompson, who declared recently that "the poorest Americans are getting far better service" than Canadians or the British, can wave away the desperation of uninsured Americans, who are often poor and voiceless. But how can they get away with pretending that insured Americans always get prompt care, when most of us can testify otherwise?
A recent article in Business Week put it bluntly: "In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems."
A cross-national survey conducted by the Commonwealth Fund found that America ranks near the bottom among advanced countries in terms of how hard it is to get medical attention on short notice (although Canada was slightly worse), and that America is the worst place in the advanced world if you need care after hours or on a weekend.
We look better when it comes to seeing a specialist or receiving elective surgery. But Germany outperforms us even on those measures - and I suspect that France, which wasn't included in the study, matches Germany's performance.
Besides, not all medical delays are created equal. In Canada and Britain, delays are caused by doctors trying to devote limited medical resources to the most urgent cases. In the United States, they're often caused by insurance companies trying to save money.
This can lead to ordeals like the one recently described by Mark Kleiman, a professor at U.C.L.A., who nearly died of cancer because his insurer kept delaying approval for a necessary biopsy. "It was only later," writes Mr. Kleiman on his blog, "that I discovered why the insurance company was stalling; I had an option, which I didn't know I had, to avoid all the approvals by going to 'Tier II,' which would have meant higher co-payments."
He adds, "I don't know how many people my insurance company waited to death that year, but I'm certain the number wasn't zero."
To be fair, Mr. Kleiman is only surmising that his insurance company risked his life in an attempt to get him to pay more of his treatment costs. But there's no question that some Americans who seemingly have good insurance nonetheless die because insurers are trying to hold down their "medical losses" - the industry term for actually having to pay for care.
On the other hand, it's true that Americans get hip replacements faster than Canadians. But there's a funny thing about that example, which is used constantly as an argument for the superiority of private health insurance over a government-run system: the large majority of hip replacements in the United States are paid for by, um, Medicare.
That's right: the hip-replacement gap is actually a comparison of two government health insurance systems. American Medicare has shorter waits than Canadian Medicare (yes, that's what they call their system) because it has more lavish funding - end of story. The alleged virtues of private insurance have nothing to do with it.
The bottom line is that the opponents of universal health care appear to have run out of honest arguments. All they have left are fantasies: horror fiction about health care in other countries, and fairy tales about health care here in America.