One of the two FBI agents in charge of Operation Equine - the landmark steroids investigation in the early '90s that led to more than 70 trafficking convictions and exposed former sluggers Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco - told the Daily News he thinks Roger Clemens was less than honest in Sunday night's "60 Minutes" interview. "There were some telling moments, especially with regard to the polygraph question," Greg Stejskal said from his Michigan home, referring to CBS' Mike Wallace asking the Rocket if he'd consider taking a lie detector test. Clemens seemed particularly fidgety at that point and answered, "I don't know if they're good or bad." "It's always difficult to tell when you're not present at the interview. You don't see the full context of how the questions were asked, what editing was done," said Stejskal, who retired from the Bureau in 2006 after more than three decades of service. "But (Clemens) had reactions that, to me, were not indicative of telling the truth. I can say what I think, but in the scheme of things, what does it mean?"
Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
- Thread starter Salo
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ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
All of these high paid idiots could have come out and said, "YES, I DID IT, WE ALL DID STEROIDS........THEY WERE LEGAL!" "NEXT QUESTION!" Now, they're all (most) lying their asses off and look stupider than they already look. Who cares if they did steroids while they were legal (at least not outlawed)? Let them all pump horse hormones if they want, especially if they can hit the ball like Barry Bonds.
All of these high paid idiots could have come out and said, "YES, I DID IT, WE ALL DID STEROIDS........THEY WERE LEGAL!" "NEXT QUESTION!" Now, they're all (most) lying their asses off and look stupider than they already look. Who cares if they did steroids while they were legal (at least not outlawed)? Let them all pump horse hormones if they want, especially if they can hit the ball like Barry Bonds.
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Cream, you are BIGTIME right !!! They advertise this shit (anabolic steriods) for personal use, in the newspaper everyday !!! Who cares if they take growth hormone or deca or winsterol !!! Nobody cares but the pencil neck geeks who have never put on a jockstrap in their life or played on an athletic field !!! Baseball will set attendance records in 2008 and the people will show "WE DONT CARE-GET OVER IT " !!!
Cream, you are BIGTIME right !!! They advertise this shit (anabolic steriods) for personal use, in the newspaper everyday !!! Who cares if they take growth hormone or deca or winsterol !!! Nobody cares but the pencil neck geeks who have never put on a jockstrap in their life or played on an athletic field !!! Baseball will set attendance records in 2008 and the people will show "WE DONT CARE-GET OVER IT " !!!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
ZZ what is strange is the level people will go to, to deny doing steriods. almost like they would admit to murder before they would ever admit to doing steriods. You walk in the gym and nobody seems to take them. Its kinda commical. Hell, it is like people thing the guy doing steriods is lazy. Like you don't even have to put in any work. You just take them and then wallah you are stronger.
ZZ what is strange is the level people will go to, to deny doing steriods. almost like they would admit to murder before they would ever admit to doing steriods. You walk in the gym and nobody seems to take them. Its kinda commical. Hell, it is like people thing the guy doing steriods is lazy. Like you don't even have to put in any work. You just take them and then wallah you are stronger.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
I thought I saw Clemens pulling a snow plow the other day on I - 95!!!!!!!!!!!
Seymour
EOG Dedicated
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
:LMAO
:LMAO
:LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
I still have some visual scars of my third ear, two more surgeries they tell me.
I still have some visual scars of my third ear, two more surgeries they tell me.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
P.S. I miss the Froggie!
Third ear or third leg?:+waving-5 :+waving-5 :+waving-5 :+waving-5 :+waving-5
P.S. I miss the Froggie!
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Funny you mention that, I was reading the Seattle-Steelers Super Bowl thread today and thinking the same thing.
:+waving-5
Funny you mention that, I was reading the Seattle-Steelers Super Bowl thread today and thinking the same thing.
:+waving-5
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
I think everyone here is missing the point.
It doesn't matter if Clemens did anything wrong, all that matters is if you can prove it with a positive blood or urine test that is tainted.
Do any of you have a drug test where Clemens failed?
I could come out with the Flamingo Kid report that says David Ortiz does steroids because he hits the ball 500 feet and his head is as big as a beachball. But, i don't have a positive test with David's urine or Blood, so whatever i say doesn't hold a heck of a lot of water.
Just like anyone who's accusing Clemens.
I think everyone here is missing the point.
It doesn't matter if Clemens did anything wrong, all that matters is if you can prove it with a positive blood or urine test that is tainted.
Do any of you have a drug test where Clemens failed?
I could come out with the Flamingo Kid report that says David Ortiz does steroids because he hits the ball 500 feet and his head is as big as a beachball. But, i don't have a positive test with David's urine or Blood, so whatever i say doesn't hold a heck of a lot of water.
Just like anyone who's accusing Clemens.
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
:dancefool
:dancefool
Clemens was a member of the Red Sox and Yankees.................that at best makes him an asshole..........at least in my book. :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
question:
what does anyone have to gain by saying they injected roger clemens with steroids?
it's pretty easy to find out which person is lying by asking "who benefits". nothing to gain by saying you injected a guy with steroids, so there would be no point in lying and saying that.
AND NO STEROIDS AND HGH WERE NOT LEGAL WITHOUT A VALID PRESCRIPTION AND REASON, WHICH THESE GUYS USUALLY DIDN'T HAVE. that's why the doctors are getting in trouble for giving them out. "it is illegal to use steroids without a valid prescription or to distribute them. Steroids are Schedule III substances under the Controlled Substances Act."
also no point in lying and saying lance armstrong cheated, which most of his old teammates now confirm.
but lance is white and had cancer, so of course it doesn't matter that he cheated at biking, cheated on his wife, is a complete hypocritical liar, etc.
question:
what does anyone have to gain by saying they injected roger clemens with steroids?
it's pretty easy to find out which person is lying by asking "who benefits". nothing to gain by saying you injected a guy with steroids, so there would be no point in lying and saying that.
AND NO STEROIDS AND HGH WERE NOT LEGAL WITHOUT A VALID PRESCRIPTION AND REASON, WHICH THESE GUYS USUALLY DIDN'T HAVE. that's why the doctors are getting in trouble for giving them out. "it is illegal to use steroids without a valid prescription or to distribute them. Steroids are Schedule III substances under the Controlled Substances Act."
also no point in lying and saying lance armstrong cheated, which most of his old teammates now confirm.
but lance is white and had cancer, so of course it doesn't matter that he cheated at biking, cheated on his wife, is a complete hypocritical liar, etc.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
He has his freedom to gain. If he doesn't give up any juicy details, the feds bust his ass. Do you think that this guy would have sung like a canary unless he was 'coerced' into doing so? He was under pressure.
He has his freedom to gain. If he doesn't give up any juicy details, the feds bust his ass. Do you think that this guy would have sung like a canary unless he was 'coerced' into doing so? He was under pressure.
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Punishment Under The Control Act
Punishment Under The Control Act
Simple possession of any Schedule III substance is a federal offense punishable by up to one year in prison and/or a minimum fine of $1,000. Simple possession by a person with a previous conviction for certain offenses, including any drug or narcotic crimes, must get imprisonment of at least 15 days and up to two years, and a minimum fine of $2,500. Individuals with two or more such previous convictions face imprisonment of not less than 90 days but not more than three years, and a minimum fine of $5,000, just for simply possessing. Selling steroids, or possessing them with intent to sell, is a federal felony. An individual who sells steroids, or possesses with intent to sell, is punishable by up to five years in prison (with at least two additional years of supervised release) and/or a $250,000 fine. An individual who commits such a violation after a prior conviction for a drug offense faces up to ten years imprisonment (with at least four additional years of special parole) and/or increased fines. Those convicted of steroid trafficking are subject to punishment under the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, which link the seriousness of the offense to the quantity of steroids involved. The application of these Guidelines to anabolic steroid cases, including real world examples, will be explored in a future article.
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
flamingo i know what roger clemens has to gain by lying, that's why he IS lying.
i meant there would be no reason for brian mcnamee to lie and say he injected rocket with roids if he didn't.
flamingo i know what roger clemens has to gain by lying, that's why he IS lying.
i meant there would be no reason for brian mcnamee to lie and say he injected rocket with roids if he didn't.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
I know what you were saying. I'm saying that McNamee is a scumbag Rat, how can you believe anyone who sings like a canary to the feds? I wouldn't believe him as far as i can throw him. Also, he was the one who supposedly did the injections, so he was breaking laws or rules or whatever by possessing steriods. Who knows what other laws he broke over the years. He's a lawbreaker and and a canary and now all of a sudden, in your eyes, there's no way he's lying?
I know what you were saying. I'm saying that McNamee is a scumbag Rat, how can you believe anyone who sings like a canary to the feds? I wouldn't believe him as far as i can throw him. Also, he was the one who supposedly did the injections, so he was breaking laws or rules or whatever by possessing steriods. Who knows what other laws he broke over the years. He's a lawbreaker and and a canary and now all of a sudden, in your eyes, there's no way he's lying?
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
so someone would make up MORE crimes that they committed?
that's like catching me in the act of burglarizing a house, and just to be a real rat i make up stories of robbing other houses that i didn't even go near?
ok he's a lawbreaker and a canary. that doesn't mean he would make up additional crimes that he could be convicted of, and piss off a well-connected friend.
many people were also claiming that pete rose was innocent and that those accusing him of betting on baseball were scumbag rat canaries that lied.
but you are much more likely to lie and say you are innocent than lie and say you are guilty.
by the way, i have robbed 35 banks and murdered 18 children!! not true but i think i'll tell the cops that!
so someone would make up MORE crimes that they committed?
that's like catching me in the act of burglarizing a house, and just to be a real rat i make up stories of robbing other houses that i didn't even go near?
ok he's a lawbreaker and a canary. that doesn't mean he would make up additional crimes that he could be convicted of, and piss off a well-connected friend.
many people were also claiming that pete rose was innocent and that those accusing him of betting on baseball were scumbag rat canaries that lied.
but you are much more likely to lie and say you are innocent than lie and say you are guilty.
by the way, i have robbed 35 banks and murdered 18 children!! not true but i think i'll tell the cops that!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
flamingo and others, are you giving barry bonds the same benefit of the doubt that you are giving roger clemens?
if not, then why? race? because barry is such a jerk? i think a lot of people would say the same thing about rocket when he was on the juice.
flamingo and others, are you giving barry bonds the same benefit of the doubt that you are giving roger clemens?
if not, then why? race? because barry is such a jerk? i think a lot of people would say the same thing about rocket when he was on the juice.
The Devil
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
MY GRAND DAUGHTER SLEEPS WITH A SESAME STREET COOKIE MONSTER RAG DOLL............I AM STARTING TO THINK FLAMINGO KID SLEEPS WITH A ROGER CLEMENS BOBBLE-HEAD DOLL..............
MY GRAND DAUGHTER SLEEPS WITH A SESAME STREET COOKIE MONSTER RAG DOLL............I AM STARTING TO THINK FLAMINGO KID SLEEPS WITH A ROGER CLEMENS BOBBLE-HEAD DOLL..............
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
We are discussing Clemens because he's in the news right now. When you want to discuss Barry, lets open up a seperate thread about Barry.
We are discussing Clemens because he's in the news right now. When you want to discuss Barry, lets open up a seperate thread about Barry.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
I'm just sticking up for whats right and i'm sticking up for justice, innocent until proven guilty. In my opinion, no one has proved anything.
I'm just sticking up for whats right and i'm sticking up for justice, innocent until proven guilty. In my opinion, no one has proved anything.
The Prophet
EOG Dedicated
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
McNamee's lawyer on Clemens: 'This is war'
Richard Emery, the lawyer for trainer Brian McNamee, says Roger Clemens asked for trouble when he taped what his client thought was a man-to-man talk. Says Emery: "He wants to play that game, he's going to get buried. I have no compunction about putting him in jail. ... This is war."
Brian McNamee comes across as a scared and confused man during Friday's 17-minute conversation with Roger Clemens, deeply worried about his son's poor health and his frayed relationship with his most famous client. But the fear and the confusion have been replaced with anger and steely resolve, now that he knows the seven-time Cy Young Award winner taped what McNamee's lawyers say was intended to be a man-to-man talk and Monday presented it as evidence that his former personal trainer lied about his steroid use. "What does (Clemens) do, he calls him back with his lawyer in the room and a tape recorder going," McNamee attorney Richard Emery told the Daily News last night. "He wants to play that game, he's going to get buried. I have no compunction about putting him in jail. "This is war." -- NY Daily News
.
McNamee's lawyer on Clemens: 'This is war'
Richard Emery, the lawyer for trainer Brian McNamee, says Roger Clemens asked for trouble when he taped what his client thought was a man-to-man talk. Says Emery: "He wants to play that game, he's going to get buried. I have no compunction about putting him in jail. ... This is war."
Brian McNamee comes across as a scared and confused man during Friday's 17-minute conversation with Roger Clemens, deeply worried about his son's poor health and his frayed relationship with his most famous client. But the fear and the confusion have been replaced with anger and steely resolve, now that he knows the seven-time Cy Young Award winner taped what McNamee's lawyers say was intended to be a man-to-man talk and Monday presented it as evidence that his former personal trainer lied about his steroid use. "What does (Clemens) do, he calls him back with his lawyer in the room and a tape recorder going," McNamee attorney Richard Emery told the Daily News last night. "He wants to play that game, he's going to get buried. I have no compunction about putting him in jail. "This is war." -- NY Daily News
.
IrishTemper
EOG Member
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
I knew I had to post on this subject matter.....
Who gives a flying fuck what people put into their own body? This puritan society bullshit thinking is the same type of thinking that has outlawed internet gambling. Why does anyone care about this or what Barry or Roger put into their bodies?
Ask yourself what/who are the driving forces behind all of this and what excuses are they using to advance their agenda. Why? And if they come back with that weak-ass "because records matter in baseball" then you know they're full of crap. There has been cheating in baseball since it's inception. And you can go farther back than the 1919 BlackSox scandal.
My God. What has this country become? Isn't this the USA? The same country I gave four years of my life for? And I can't put things into my body becasue some fat fuck in congress passed a law saying it's bad for me? Fuck you. :finger004 :finger004 :finger004
It's not like there's 'Juice houses' where people inject juice on the first of the month every month in old run down parts of town.
The media just constantly slam this crap down our throats like we have to care. I don't care if Barry injected himself as he crosses home plate.
And why the fuck does the NFL get a pass? Barry or Roger are big, but did you see Vernon Gholston's pipes last night? Damn. But he's not on juice.
I knew I had to post on this subject matter.....
Who gives a flying fuck what people put into their own body? This puritan society bullshit thinking is the same type of thinking that has outlawed internet gambling. Why does anyone care about this or what Barry or Roger put into their bodies?
Ask yourself what/who are the driving forces behind all of this and what excuses are they using to advance their agenda. Why? And if they come back with that weak-ass "because records matter in baseball" then you know they're full of crap. There has been cheating in baseball since it's inception. And you can go farther back than the 1919 BlackSox scandal.
My God. What has this country become? Isn't this the USA? The same country I gave four years of my life for? And I can't put things into my body becasue some fat fuck in congress passed a law saying it's bad for me? Fuck you. :finger004 :finger004 :finger004
It's not like there's 'Juice houses' where people inject juice on the first of the month every month in old run down parts of town.
The media just constantly slam this crap down our throats like we have to care. I don't care if Barry injected himself as he crosses home plate.
And why the fuck does the NFL get a pass? Barry or Roger are big, but did you see Vernon Gholston's pipes last night? Damn. But he's not on juice.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Great post!
They're all fucking hypocrites, MLB reaped rewards for YEARS and now they're throwing their stars under the bus to save their own ass.
I knew I had to post on this subject matter.....
Who gives a flying fuck what people put into their own body? This puritan society bullshit thinking is the same type of thinking that has outlawed internet gambling. Why does anyone care about this or what Barry or Roger put into their bodies?
Ask yourself what/who are the driving forces behind all of this and what excuses are they using to advance their agenda. Why? And if they come back with that weak-ass "because records matter in baseball" then you know they're full of crap. There has been cheating in baseball since it's inception. And you can go farther back than the 1919 BlackSox scandal.
My God. What has this country become? Isn't this the USA? The same country I gave four years of my life for? And I can't put things into my body becasue some fat fuck in congress passed a law saying it's bad for me? Fuck you. :finger004 :finger004 :finger004
It's not like there's 'Juice houses' where people inject juice on the first of the month every month in old run down parts of town.
The media just constantly slam this crap down our throats like we have to care. I don't care if Barry injected himself as he crosses home plate.
And why the fuck does the NFL get a pass? Barry or Roger are big, but did you see Vernon Gholston's pipes last night? Damn. But he's not on juice.
Great post!
They're all fucking hypocrites, MLB reaped rewards for YEARS and now they're throwing their stars under the bus to save their own ass.
sharky99
EOG Dedicated
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Major League Baseball has had major issues in every decade dating back to the negro league, having said that a good friend of mine is a close neighbor of Brian Mcnamee and he is highly regarded by his neighbors, community and pro athletes he has come in contact with in the past. Many have said that Clemens is not telling the truth about everything. It's like Clinton when he said"I did not have sexual relations with that woman." We'll his definiton of sexual relations was different than everybody else. We live in a very forgiving society and I just wish the athletes would come clean when asked regardless of what they took and how much they were using.
Major League Baseball has had major issues in every decade dating back to the negro league, having said that a good friend of mine is a close neighbor of Brian Mcnamee and he is highly regarded by his neighbors, community and pro athletes he has come in contact with in the past. Many have said that Clemens is not telling the truth about everything. It's like Clinton when he said"I did not have sexual relations with that woman." We'll his definiton of sexual relations was different than everybody else. We live in a very forgiving society and I just wish the athletes would come clean when asked regardless of what they took and how much they were using.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
If McNamee was a class act, he would have just said 'i dont know anything. As far as clemens goes, i didn't see him around steroids"
But, the reason he DIDNT say that is because the people who were putting pressure on him wanted him to 'give up' Clemens. they weren't taking no for an answer and thats why 'mac' sung like a canary.
If Macnamee was told, "if you have something on clemens, please tell us and if you don't have anything on clemens, tell that us also. Whatever you say is cool with us, we'll leave you alone regardless of what you say or know"
Do you think that's what Macnamee was told?
If McNamee was a class act, he would have just said 'i dont know anything. As far as clemens goes, i didn't see him around steroids"
But, the reason he DIDNT say that is because the people who were putting pressure on him wanted him to 'give up' Clemens. they weren't taking no for an answer and thats why 'mac' sung like a canary.
If Macnamee was told, "if you have something on clemens, please tell us and if you don't have anything on clemens, tell that us also. Whatever you say is cool with us, we'll leave you alone regardless of what you say or know"
Do you think that's what Macnamee was told?
ZZ CREAM
EOG Master
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Some days I feel in 100% agreement.......................then other days I think of the kids that can't compete because they do not inject horse hormones into their body. Then I agree with the need for something to be done. A very tricky and difficult road to monitor.I knew I had to post on this subject matter.....
Who gives a flying fuck what people put into their own body? This puritan society bullshit thinking is the same type of thinking that has outlawed internet gambling. Why does anyone care about this or what Barry or Roger put into their bodies?
Ask yourself what/who are the driving forces behind all of this and what excuses are they using to advance their agenda. Why? And if they come back with that weak-ass "because records matter in baseball" then you know they're full of crap. There has been cheating in baseball since it's inception. And you can go farther back than the 1919 BlackSox scandal.
My God. What has this country become? Isn't this the USA? The same country I gave four years of my life for? And I can't put things into my body becasue some fat fuck in congress passed a law saying it's bad for me? Fuck you. :finger004 :finger004 :finger004
It's not like there's 'Juice houses' where people inject juice on the first of the month every month in old run down parts of town.
The media just constantly slam this crap down our throats like we have to care. I don't care if Barry injected himself as he crosses home plate.
And why the fuck does the NFL get a pass? Barry or Roger are big, but did you see Vernon Gholston's pipes last night? Damn. But he's not on juice.
NoNewbieca
EOG Dedicated
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
Toronto Blue Jay insiders (trainer and chiropractor) disagree with steriod use for Roger. Roger gets some support. From the Toronto Sun (see Sun Girl)
Rocket clean in T.O.
Two men close to Roger Clemens when the mound ace was in Toronto are sure that he was free of steroids
By JOE WARMINGTON
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Trainer Phil Zullo, left, of North York's Pro Fitness, and Blue Jays chiropractor Patrick Graham say they tend to believe star pitcher Roger Clemens when he says he didn't use steroids. (Michael Peake, Sun Media)
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Much of the reputation of the game of baseball and of one of its all-time great players is resting on the word of a man whose background is shrouded in unusual claims, strange relationships and at least one criminal investigation involving illegal drugs and an alleged sexual assault.
In fact, spend just one day looking into Brian McNamee's past and you'll find quite a history -- including his time here where sources say he was not always comfortable with his close relationship with the senior management person who brought him into the Blue Jays organization.
"I hope baseball is not putting all of its case on this one witness because in my 32 years as an investigator, I would not find him to be very credible," Florida state attorney office investigator Don Crotty said yesterday.
Crotty has some insight into the man since he investigated him in an alleged date-rape case and concluded, "He was not truthful with me."
Seven-time Cy Young winner Roger Clemens has denied McNamee's claims to the Sen. George Mitchell Report into steroids in baseball that he injected the former Jays hurler with steroids in 1998 while they were in Toronto, and with steroids and human growth hormones in 2000 and 2001 in New York.
'TELL THE TRUTH' <TABLE style="CLEAR: both" cellPadding=1 width=125 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=8>
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Clemens has also filed a lawsuit against McNamee, with whom he had an awkward taped conversation where Clemens said, "I am looking for someone to tell the truth."
If the Mitchell Report authors were to interview some Blue Jays personnel about their feeling on whether or not the legendary Clemens was involved in steroid use or the injection of human growth hormones while here, they would find people saying they don't believe he was.
"A lot of Blue Jays staffers back then were shocked by it and don't believe it," said one insider.
One of them, who is sure he would have noticed, is still the team's chiropractor.
"I worked with him daily and didn't see any signs of steroid use," Dr. Patrick Graham told The Sun yesterday. "I didn't notice any rashes, acne or increased muscle mass or structure."
Several Blue Jays sources yesterday also indicated that "Roger looked exactly the same the whole time he was in Toronto."
As the team's chiropractor, Graham got to see him up close and personal, and said yesterday he "believes" Clemens claim he did not partake in steroids -- at least while in Toronto.
"I think I would have seen signs of it," he said, adding he always thought the Rocket's success in Toronto was because of his newly developed "split-fingered fastball."
Even after Clemens left the Jays organization, he would come in for a back treatment whenever in Toronto and Graham said he observed no body changes. "I haven't seen him for two years, but I just don't think he was on steroids."
Professional trainer Phil Zullo, of North York's Pro-Fit, agrees -- saying if Clemens took the amount of steroids and the type McNamee alleges in the report, he would have ended up looking like Hulk Hogan. "With the way Roger works out and trains, he would have been a giant," said Zullo, who did not work with Clemens but has always been known to be against the use of any substances for the amateur and professional athletes he trains.
In his North York studio yesterday he had in North York Rangers hockey player Andrew Wright and Ontario Ski Team member Cameron Day, both 18, and said they are examples of kids doing it clean and an example of why professionals shouldn't cheat.
"Who knows the truth about Roger, but I am sure his body type would have changed more than it appears to have," Zullo said. "I tend to believe Roger."
Credible or not, former Toronto Blue Jays trainer McNamee has a lot of people on the hot seat early in 2008 -- namely former Blue Jays Cy Young winner Clemens, along with others.
Crotty, who was then a detective with St. Petersburg Police, had McNamee on the hot seat himself back after a reported incident in a hotel swimming pool in St. Petersburg, Fla., in 2001.
"It all started after a party up in Yankees' player Chuck Knoblauch's room," he said.
The case Crotty was working on involved the complaint of a semi-conscious naked woman in a swimming pool who was believed to have been slipped the date-rape drug. "We had the bottle it was in tested and it came back as GHB," Crotty said. "Same goes for what was found in her system -- GHB."
Crotty said his plan was to move ahead with criminal charges. "Oh, yeah, it was a decent case," he said.
But the prosecution decided not to move forward with it -- feeling the victim's testimony may not hold up. Some media reports indicated she was unwilling to pursue the case since she had relations with a married member of the Yankees organization.
Although implicated in the incident, McNamee was never charged. Whatever happened there, as far as Crotty is concerned, was a case of somebody unknowingly being plied with a substance that can render you unconscious.
There's no evidence of who put the GHB in the woman's drink.
"It can put you out if mixed with alcohol," he said of GHB. "It is the same stuff sometimes used by body builders."
He said although Clemens was not part of this investigation "he and the Yankees organization would have been well aware of it."
McNamee, who was later sued for non-payment by the law firm that represented him, quietly left the Yankees organization shortly after but continued to work privately with Clemens and Andy Pettitte, who has acknowledged using steroids.
Attempts to reach McNamee through his lawyer were unsuccessful.
This case is one of several strange events surrounding McNamee's life and career.
Days after the release of the Mitchell report last year, ESPN.com's Shaun Assael, Luke Cyphers and Amy K. Nelson compiled a profile on McNamee's life which showed a personal trainer "a working man content to earn his living in the shadows of stars."
It was those relationships, with players like Clemens, Knoblauch and Pettitte, that he was able to give information on how to avoid jail time for being involved with the distribution of illegal drugs.
The ESPN report also deals with "McNamee referring to himself as Dr. McNamee." An investigation showed his doctorate earned at Columbus University in Louisiana is now Columbus out of Mississippi, since Louisiana closed its operation in 2001 for handing out degrees to many who did "little or no academic work."
Clemens has been quoted saying he thought McNamee had a medical degree.
McNamee, the son of a cop from Queens, New York, was himself a NYPD officer from 1990 to 1993, just after playing college baseball. ESPN.com quoted a former fellow officer calling McNamee a "super cop" who claimed to have made numerous arrests and was involved in the investigation of the tragic apartment building death of music legend Eric Clapton's young son.
But the ESPN study also found the NYPD handed McNamee a 30-day suspension after a prisoner escaped from custody.
After leaving the force in 1993 he landed back in baseball as a bullpen catcher, thanks to a college friendship with Tim McCleary, who was with the Yankees at that time and later instrumental in bringing him to the Blue Jays.
Some staffers felt he was keeping an eye on things for his old college friend but for the most part "he kept his nose clean" and no one suspected anything untoward about McNamee. Graham said he saw McNamee around the team but never felt there was anything unusual going on.
But now, in exchange for not being charged, McNamee's testimony against these players is going to help the Mitchell Report people clean up baseball with the steroid era.
However, just who is this guy and how credible is he? With allegations of criminal investigations and alleged exaggerations, to go with denials from Clemens and no smoking gun to prove anything, could it lead to a house of cards crashing down? In the words of former detective Crotty yesterday about the Mitchell Report and the veracity of their star witness: "I hope they have more than his statement."
Toronto Blue Jay insiders (trainer and chiropractor) disagree with steriod use for Roger. Roger gets some support. From the Toronto Sun (see Sun Girl)
Rocket clean in T.O.
Two men close to Roger Clemens when the mound ace was in Toronto are sure that he was free of steroids
By JOE WARMINGTON
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Trainer Phil Zullo, left, of North York's Pro Fitness, and Blue Jays chiropractor Patrick Graham say they tend to believe star pitcher Roger Clemens when he says he didn't use steroids. (Michael Peake, Sun Media)
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Much of the reputation of the game of baseball and of one of its all-time great players is resting on the word of a man whose background is shrouded in unusual claims, strange relationships and at least one criminal investigation involving illegal drugs and an alleged sexual assault.
In fact, spend just one day looking into Brian McNamee's past and you'll find quite a history -- including his time here where sources say he was not always comfortable with his close relationship with the senior management person who brought him into the Blue Jays organization.
"I hope baseball is not putting all of its case on this one witness because in my 32 years as an investigator, I would not find him to be very credible," Florida state attorney office investigator Don Crotty said yesterday.
Crotty has some insight into the man since he investigated him in an alleged date-rape case and concluded, "He was not truthful with me."
Seven-time Cy Young winner Roger Clemens has denied McNamee's claims to the Sen. George Mitchell Report into steroids in baseball that he injected the former Jays hurler with steroids in 1998 while they were in Toronto, and with steroids and human growth hormones in 2000 and 2001 in New York.
'TELL THE TRUTH' <TABLE style="CLEAR: both" cellPadding=1 width=125 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=8>
</TD><TD><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> fctAdTag("bigbox",MyGenericTagVar,1);</SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/can.en.smc.torontosun/news;subz1=news_torontoandgta;tile=1;sz=300x250;dcopt=ist;pos=1;hp=0;ord=2217196406?" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Clemens has also filed a lawsuit against McNamee, with whom he had an awkward taped conversation where Clemens said, "I am looking for someone to tell the truth."
If the Mitchell Report authors were to interview some Blue Jays personnel about their feeling on whether or not the legendary Clemens was involved in steroid use or the injection of human growth hormones while here, they would find people saying they don't believe he was.
"A lot of Blue Jays staffers back then were shocked by it and don't believe it," said one insider.
One of them, who is sure he would have noticed, is still the team's chiropractor.
"I worked with him daily and didn't see any signs of steroid use," Dr. Patrick Graham told The Sun yesterday. "I didn't notice any rashes, acne or increased muscle mass or structure."
Several Blue Jays sources yesterday also indicated that "Roger looked exactly the same the whole time he was in Toronto."
As the team's chiropractor, Graham got to see him up close and personal, and said yesterday he "believes" Clemens claim he did not partake in steroids -- at least while in Toronto.
"I think I would have seen signs of it," he said, adding he always thought the Rocket's success in Toronto was because of his newly developed "split-fingered fastball."
Even after Clemens left the Jays organization, he would come in for a back treatment whenever in Toronto and Graham said he observed no body changes. "I haven't seen him for two years, but I just don't think he was on steroids."
Professional trainer Phil Zullo, of North York's Pro-Fit, agrees -- saying if Clemens took the amount of steroids and the type McNamee alleges in the report, he would have ended up looking like Hulk Hogan. "With the way Roger works out and trains, he would have been a giant," said Zullo, who did not work with Clemens but has always been known to be against the use of any substances for the amateur and professional athletes he trains.
In his North York studio yesterday he had in North York Rangers hockey player Andrew Wright and Ontario Ski Team member Cameron Day, both 18, and said they are examples of kids doing it clean and an example of why professionals shouldn't cheat.
"Who knows the truth about Roger, but I am sure his body type would have changed more than it appears to have," Zullo said. "I tend to believe Roger."
Credible or not, former Toronto Blue Jays trainer McNamee has a lot of people on the hot seat early in 2008 -- namely former Blue Jays Cy Young winner Clemens, along with others.
Crotty, who was then a detective with St. Petersburg Police, had McNamee on the hot seat himself back after a reported incident in a hotel swimming pool in St. Petersburg, Fla., in 2001.
"It all started after a party up in Yankees' player Chuck Knoblauch's room," he said.
The case Crotty was working on involved the complaint of a semi-conscious naked woman in a swimming pool who was believed to have been slipped the date-rape drug. "We had the bottle it was in tested and it came back as GHB," Crotty said. "Same goes for what was found in her system -- GHB."
Crotty said his plan was to move ahead with criminal charges. "Oh, yeah, it was a decent case," he said.
But the prosecution decided not to move forward with it -- feeling the victim's testimony may not hold up. Some media reports indicated she was unwilling to pursue the case since she had relations with a married member of the Yankees organization.
Although implicated in the incident, McNamee was never charged. Whatever happened there, as far as Crotty is concerned, was a case of somebody unknowingly being plied with a substance that can render you unconscious.
There's no evidence of who put the GHB in the woman's drink.
"It can put you out if mixed with alcohol," he said of GHB. "It is the same stuff sometimes used by body builders."
He said although Clemens was not part of this investigation "he and the Yankees organization would have been well aware of it."
McNamee, who was later sued for non-payment by the law firm that represented him, quietly left the Yankees organization shortly after but continued to work privately with Clemens and Andy Pettitte, who has acknowledged using steroids.
Attempts to reach McNamee through his lawyer were unsuccessful.
This case is one of several strange events surrounding McNamee's life and career.
Days after the release of the Mitchell report last year, ESPN.com's Shaun Assael, Luke Cyphers and Amy K. Nelson compiled a profile on McNamee's life which showed a personal trainer "a working man content to earn his living in the shadows of stars."
It was those relationships, with players like Clemens, Knoblauch and Pettitte, that he was able to give information on how to avoid jail time for being involved with the distribution of illegal drugs.
The ESPN report also deals with "McNamee referring to himself as Dr. McNamee." An investigation showed his doctorate earned at Columbus University in Louisiana is now Columbus out of Mississippi, since Louisiana closed its operation in 2001 for handing out degrees to many who did "little or no academic work."
Clemens has been quoted saying he thought McNamee had a medical degree.
McNamee, the son of a cop from Queens, New York, was himself a NYPD officer from 1990 to 1993, just after playing college baseball. ESPN.com quoted a former fellow officer calling McNamee a "super cop" who claimed to have made numerous arrests and was involved in the investigation of the tragic apartment building death of music legend Eric Clapton's young son.
But the ESPN study also found the NYPD handed McNamee a 30-day suspension after a prisoner escaped from custody.
After leaving the force in 1993 he landed back in baseball as a bullpen catcher, thanks to a college friendship with Tim McCleary, who was with the Yankees at that time and later instrumental in bringing him to the Blue Jays.
Some staffers felt he was keeping an eye on things for his old college friend but for the most part "he kept his nose clean" and no one suspected anything untoward about McNamee. Graham said he saw McNamee around the team but never felt there was anything unusual going on.
But now, in exchange for not being charged, McNamee's testimony against these players is going to help the Mitchell Report people clean up baseball with the steroid era.
However, just who is this guy and how credible is he? With allegations of criminal investigations and alleged exaggerations, to go with denials from Clemens and no smoking gun to prove anything, could it lead to a house of cards crashing down? In the words of former detective Crotty yesterday about the Mitchell Report and the veracity of their star witness: "I hope they have more than his statement."
IrishTemper
EOG Member
Re: Ex-FBI Agent Says Clemens' Act Is Shaky
ZZ, I agree that kids shouldn't use these or any drugs unless prescribed by a doctor. But kids also shouldn't drink alcohol. The problem is Anhueser-Busch and the likes are too big a company and congress isn't going to march them up on the carpet at Capital Hill now are they? It's all about money.
How many deaths are directly attributed to alcohol each year? Thousands? I fI had to guess I'd say it's a pretty large number. Now compare that with steroids. But yet there's this HUGE epidemic regarding anabolics. Give me a break. It's all hypocrisy.
You can line up a botte of aspirin, a bottle of Dianabol and a bottle of potassium that you got at Wal-Mart. Which one is the only bottle you can ingest without causing near-death or death itself? Yup. You guessed it, D-Bol.
The government first told us that steroids didn't work. Then Ben Johnson came along in 1988 and sort of threw a wrench into that bit of propaganda. Had to change their story. Now they cause death or make teenagers commit suicide.
ZZ, I agree that kids shouldn't use these or any drugs unless prescribed by a doctor. But kids also shouldn't drink alcohol. The problem is Anhueser-Busch and the likes are too big a company and congress isn't going to march them up on the carpet at Capital Hill now are they? It's all about money.
How many deaths are directly attributed to alcohol each year? Thousands? I fI had to guess I'd say it's a pretty large number. Now compare that with steroids. But yet there's this HUGE epidemic regarding anabolics. Give me a break. It's all hypocrisy.
You can line up a botte of aspirin, a bottle of Dianabol and a bottle of potassium that you got at Wal-Mart. Which one is the only bottle you can ingest without causing near-death or death itself? Yup. You guessed it, D-Bol.
The government first told us that steroids didn't work. Then Ben Johnson came along in 1988 and sort of threw a wrench into that bit of propaganda. Had to change their story. Now they cause death or make teenagers commit suicide.