ESPN: Greatest Centers
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Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
It's good to see Abdul Jabbar atop the list, he has been somewhat forgotten among all the 'best ever' talk the past decade or so, one could very easily make a strong case that Lew Alcindor turned Abdul Jabbar, was the all time NBA player....he has as many titles as Jordan, he played in a very competetive erafor big men outlasted everyone, 19 time all star!....and he had a shot that was impossible to block.
Kareem Abdul Jabbar was every bit as great and if you had to pick one player over Michael Jordan he would be it.
It's good to see Abdul Jabbar atop the list, he has been somewhat forgotten among all the 'best ever' talk the past decade or so, one could very easily make a strong case that Lew Alcindor turned Abdul Jabbar, was the all time NBA player....he has as many titles as Jordan, he played in a very competetive erafor big men outlasted everyone, 19 time all star!....and he had a shot that was impossible to block.
Kareem Abdul Jabbar was every bit as great and if you had to pick one player over Michael Jordan he would be it.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
The Lakers center position
Wilt 1968 -1973
Kareem 1975-1989
Shaq 1996-2004
The past 37 years and all but a handful were manned by 3 of the top 4 centers of all time in LA.
The Lakers center position
Wilt 1968 -1973
Kareem 1975-1989
Shaq 1996-2004
The past 37 years and all but a handful were manned by 3 of the top 4 centers of all time in LA.
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Kareem was most likely the best of the best but a total opposite of Jordan as far as personality. Valued his privacy, never one to bask in glory. Not liked at all by media or general public. Fight scene with Bruce Lee awesome. One of the most withdrawn and misunderstood NBA players ever.
Best Kareem moment, took a nasty elbow to mouth, not an accident from Daryl Dawkins, AKA Chocolate Thunder. In NBA Finals I think. Bloody lip and bloody mouth, not even a foul called. He just stepped up and dominated after that. Took a lot to fire him up, and boy was he po'd after that. Even Magic called him Cap for a reason. A pros pro. A money player. Best in NCAA, best in pros. Even the refs had it in for him.
Best Wishes...OF :cheers
Kareem was most likely the best of the best but a total opposite of Jordan as far as personality. Valued his privacy, never one to bask in glory. Not liked at all by media or general public. Fight scene with Bruce Lee awesome. One of the most withdrawn and misunderstood NBA players ever.
Best Kareem moment, took a nasty elbow to mouth, not an accident from Daryl Dawkins, AKA Chocolate Thunder. In NBA Finals I think. Bloody lip and bloody mouth, not even a foul called. He just stepped up and dominated after that. Took a lot to fire him up, and boy was he po'd after that. Even Magic called him Cap for a reason. A pros pro. A money player. Best in NCAA, best in pros. Even the refs had it in for him.
Best Wishes...OF :cheers
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Frog a usual, you are so on the money about Kareem right down to the fight seen.
Frog a usual, you are so on the money about Kareem right down to the fight seen.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Seymour, you completely distort reality in your obsession of the spurs/Duncan. The fact is the lakers were better. The facts is Shaq is better than Duncan was. The fact is you insult Bill Russell (several times showing how you lack "instinct" and "feel" for the sport) when he is one of the very best players in history. There is not a person in their right mind who would insult Bill Russell. A guy who won all the time at every level including the Olympics and is the best there was defensively. Your lack of "reality" combined with your obsession of the Spurs is a joke. I have told it like it was plain and simple. Anyone going out of their way to insult Bill Russell has no clue. As Bill Parcells said very often you either "Get it" or you do not. You do not. Somebody needs to tell you that. I just did.
Seymour, you completely distort reality in your obsession of the spurs/Duncan. The fact is the lakers were better. The facts is Shaq is better than Duncan was. The fact is you insult Bill Russell (several times showing how you lack "instinct" and "feel" for the sport) when he is one of the very best players in history. There is not a person in their right mind who would insult Bill Russell. A guy who won all the time at every level including the Olympics and is the best there was defensively. Your lack of "reality" combined with your obsession of the Spurs is a joke. I have told it like it was plain and simple. Anyone going out of their way to insult Bill Russell has no clue. As Bill Parcells said very often you either "Get it" or you do not. You do not. Somebody needs to tell you that. I just did.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Yes he does!
Yes he does!
Seymour
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
I insulted Bill Russell? You raped Halle Berry! Now where did you make that up from. I consider Bill Russell the best center of all time. I guess this is what you do after I put those numbers up - just make up blantant lies?
Could you please explain to me how Shaq and the Lakers were better than TD and the Spurs? I'm going to go slow - they met 5x in the playoffs - Tim has 2 rings and Shaq has 2 rings
If I had to pick what team was better? I'd say LA by the hair on my balls and they also had Bryant and we had Parker who had no yet emerged. But you said Shaq DOMINATED SA and TD - which you now won't even admit is utter bullshit.
I insulted Bill Russell? You raped Halle Berry! Now where did you make that up from. I consider Bill Russell the best center of all time. I guess this is what you do after I put those numbers up - just make up blantant lies?
Could you please explain to me how Shaq and the Lakers were better than TD and the Spurs? I'm going to go slow - they met 5x in the playoffs - Tim has 2 rings and Shaq has 2 rings
If I had to pick what team was better? I'd say LA by the hair on my balls and they also had Bryant and we had Parker who had no yet emerged. But you said Shaq DOMINATED SA and TD - which you now won't even admit is utter bullshit.
Hache Man
"Seven Days Without Gambling Makes One Weak"
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
CAREER STATISTICS
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=colhead vAlign=top><TD>
</TD><TD>Years</TD><TD>PPG</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD><TD>PER</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Abdul-Jabbar</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>24.6</TD><TD>11.2</TD><TD>2.6</TD><TD>24.6</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Chamberlain</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>30.1</TD><TD>22.9</TD><TD>N/A</TD><TD>26.2</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Russell</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>15.1</TD><TD>22.5</TD><TD>N/A</TD><TD>18.9</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>O'Neal</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>26.3</TD><TD>11.8</TD><TD>2.5</TD><TD>27.8</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Olajuwon</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>21.8</TD><TD>11.1</TD><TD>3.1</TD><TD>23.6</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Malone</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>20.3</TD><TD>12.3</TD><TD>1.3</TD><TD>22.0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Walton</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>13.3</TD><TD>10.5</TD><TD>2.2</TD><TD>20.0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Robinson</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>21.1</TD><TD>10.6</TD><TD>3.0</TD><TD>26.2</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Mikan</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>23.1</TD><TD>13.4</TD><TD>N/A</TD><TD>27.1</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Ewing</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>21.0</TD><TD>9.8</TD><TD>2.4</TD><TD>21.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Those rebounds per average by Russell & Chamberlain are a joke.
We could plug Dirty in the key back then against all of the weak 6ft talent those 2 played against & he would average 10+ per game himself.....
CAREER STATISTICS
<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=colhead vAlign=top><TD>
</TD><TD>Years</TD><TD>PPG</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD><TD>PER</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Abdul-Jabbar</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>24.6</TD><TD>11.2</TD><TD>2.6</TD><TD>24.6</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Chamberlain</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>30.1</TD><TD>22.9</TD><TD>N/A</TD><TD>26.2</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Russell</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>15.1</TD><TD>22.5</TD><TD>N/A</TD><TD>18.9</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>O'Neal</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>26.3</TD><TD>11.8</TD><TD>2.5</TD><TD>27.8</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Olajuwon</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>21.8</TD><TD>11.1</TD><TD>3.1</TD><TD>23.6</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Malone</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>20.3</TD><TD>12.3</TD><TD>1.3</TD><TD>22.0</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Walton</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>13.3</TD><TD>10.5</TD><TD>2.2</TD><TD>20.0</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Robinson</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>21.1</TD><TD>10.6</TD><TD>3.0</TD><TD>26.2</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD>Mikan</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>23.1</TD><TD>13.4</TD><TD>N/A</TD><TD>27.1</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD>Ewing</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>21.0</TD><TD>9.8</TD><TD>2.4</TD><TD>21.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Those rebounds per average by Russell & Chamberlain are a joke.
We could plug Dirty in the key back then against all of the weak 6ft talent those 2 played against & he would average 10+ per game himself.....
Seymour
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Honestly, I don't know if you've lost your mind or not - but I have never said anything negative about Russell - other than you have to consider him one of the best ever based on what he achieved - I AM GOING IN FOR A COCK REDUCTION IF YOU CAN SHOW ME WHERE I TALKED SHIT ABOUT RUSSELL - I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE I TALKED SHIT ABOUT RUSSELL - SOMETHING TELLS ME I'LL BE A WAITING MF'ER - I'M LEAVING AT 11 TO GO WATCH CUSE.
Honestly, I don't know if you've lost your mind or not - but I have never said anything negative about Russell - other than you have to consider him one of the best ever based on what he achieved - I AM GOING IN FOR A COCK REDUCTION IF YOU CAN SHOW ME WHERE I TALKED SHIT ABOUT RUSSELL - I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE I TALKED SHIT ABOUT RUSSELL - SOMETHING TELLS ME I'LL BE A WAITING MF'ER - I'M LEAVING AT 11 TO GO WATCH CUSE.
Seymour
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
I believe one season Wilt average 50 points and 25 boards - AVERAGED - now that is truly mind boggling - so his off games were 40 and 20.
I believe one season Wilt average 50 points and 25 boards - AVERAGED - now that is truly mind boggling - so his off games were 40 and 20.
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Seymour, your distortion is getting worse and I cannot waste more time on this. You have insulted Russell several times and made cracks on him several more times. Lakers beat the Spurs more times. Period. Shaq is better than TD and any list in history will verify this. What is your point? Lakers were better and Shaq was better. Duncan is not even on center lists. And you cannot figure out why. It is simple because you do NOT GET IT. You are actaully asking me why the lakers were better? Time to move on Seymour.
Seymour, your distortion is getting worse and I cannot waste more time on this. You have insulted Russell several times and made cracks on him several more times. Lakers beat the Spurs more times. Period. Shaq is better than TD and any list in history will verify this. What is your point? Lakers were better and Shaq was better. Duncan is not even on center lists. And you cannot figure out why. It is simple because you do NOT GET IT. You are actaully asking me why the lakers were better? Time to move on Seymour.
Hache Man
"Seven Days Without Gambling Makes One Weak"
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
No offense, but looked what he & Russell played against night after night........
No offense, but looked what he & Russell played against night after night........
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
LOL Hache
I use to snicker at how you and Naziheim would debate it, and he would get so mad because u disagreed basically 'will'ing his opinion as the right one!
We all know Shaq would destroy those older guys, it is just not physically possible and no comparison.
That would be like saying the Steelers 1970s O line could stop a great efense today, just physically imlpossible.
BTW you picked to great illustrations
LOL Hache
I use to snicker at how you and Naziheim would debate it, and he would get so mad because u disagreed basically 'will'ing his opinion as the right one!
We all know Shaq would destroy those older guys, it is just not physically possible and no comparison.
That would be like saying the Steelers 1970s O line could stop a great efense today, just physically imlpossible.
BTW you picked to great illustrations
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Seymour you keep dodging and bobbing and weaving and everything but the main points. You still can't figure why they rate Duncan as a PF? THe points are the Lakers were better than the Spurs. And they are. And Duncan vs Shaq where Shaq is better and ANY list ever will verify. Shaq will be on any top ten list in history and Duncan will not. So the main points are the Lakers were better and Shaq is better. Meanwhile you are scratching your chin and asking why Duncan is rated as a PF. If you do not know at this point...it is not going to help to explain it.
Seymour you keep dodging and bobbing and weaving and everything but the main points. You still can't figure why they rate Duncan as a PF? THe points are the Lakers were better than the Spurs. And they are. And Duncan vs Shaq where Shaq is better and ANY list ever will verify. Shaq will be on any top ten list in history and Duncan will not. So the main points are the Lakers were better and Shaq is better. Meanwhile you are scratching your chin and asking why Duncan is rated as a PF. If you do not know at this point...it is not going to help to explain it.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Not the entire point, their competition was far less than today.
:cocktail fruity one
Not the entire point, their competition was far less than today.
:cocktail fruity one
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Dude, in that Russell pic, that is John havlicek and KC Jones. Those guys are not chopped liver by a long shot.
No offense, but looked what he & Russell played against night after night........
Dude, in that Russell pic, that is John havlicek and KC Jones. Those guys are not chopped liver by a long shot.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
DAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR
:LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO
DAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR
:LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO :LMAO
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
It is true but those guys still dominated. They deserve to be top 10 all time.
It is true but those guys still dominated. They deserve to be top 10 all time.
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
They were his teammates though, who was Boston playing there the New York Generals? (globetrotter fame)
:+excited-
They were his teammates though, who was Boston playing there the New York Generals? (globetrotter fame)
:+excited-
TomBrady#1
EOG Dedicated
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
LOL. You are cracking yourself up. I think it was the Washington Generals. Knicks were a good team in the late 60's with some great players like WIllis Reed, Bill Bradley, Monroe, Debushere and more. NBA players today lack fundamentals like shooting. WHo can shoot today?? They do not know how to play. And it is more than just shooting. You think Marburey is better than Bob Cousy because he is more athletic? I do not think so. Remember the JonStockton's, Steve nash, Larry Birds, Chris Mullins are not great because they are athletic..they are great because they know how to play. Guys back then did the same thing and played the same way.
LOL. You are cracking yourself up. I think it was the Washington Generals. Knicks were a good team in the late 60's with some great players like WIllis Reed, Bill Bradley, Monroe, Debushere and more. NBA players today lack fundamentals like shooting. WHo can shoot today?? They do not know how to play. And it is more than just shooting. You think Marburey is better than Bob Cousy because he is more athletic? I do not think so. Remember the JonStockton's, Steve nash, Larry Birds, Chris Mullins are not great because they are athletic..they are great because they know how to play. Guys back then did the same thing and played the same way.
Hache Man
"Seven Days Without Gambling Makes One Weak"
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
lol....You remember hugh?
He used to get furious with that debate & something so minor was the beginning of our fallout.
I understand the arguement though.
I've made this point before, but once again, people will always stand by & defend their era.
When I'm an old man, I will swear that guys today were better than what will be 40-50 years from now, even though I will know deep down it isn't true.....
LOL Hache
I use to snicker at how you and Naziheim would debate it, and he would get so mad because u disagreed basically 'will'ing his opinion as the right one!
We all know Shaq would destroy those older guys, it is just not physically possible and no comparison.
That would be like saying the Steelers 1970s O line could stop a great efense today, just physically imlpossible.
BTW you picked to great illustrations
lol....You remember hugh?
He used to get furious with that debate & something so minor was the beginning of our fallout.
I understand the arguement though.
I've made this point before, but once again, people will always stand by & defend their era.
When I'm an old man, I will swear that guys today were better than what will be 40-50 years from now, even though I will know deep down it isn't true.....
Journeyman
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
perfect description.
yes I remember it pissed me off because I knew why you said 'see ya'.
he is always right though, 'Napolean complex' to the hilt.
perfect description.
yes I remember it pissed me off because I knew why you said 'see ya'.
he is always right though, 'Napolean complex' to the hilt.
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Re: ESPN: Greatest Centers
Would Bill Russell and Wilt be effective this era, this day and age? Even with all of the training, perfect diets, whatever advantages they could get I would say no. They were frontrunners to what is common today. Maybe they were the models for future players. But both played when the league was shifting from all white slow guy teams. There are some teams now that have zero white guys on the roster. They dominated, but Russell did with a stacked deck, and Wilt had huge numbers on a crummy team most of the time, as he was so tall he got all the boards and dunked over the other teams white midgets.
As far as the ongoing, neverending Timmy Shaq debate, there is one point you must take into consideration. Timmy had very little if any help, was the go to guy, and still beat double teams. Shaq was actually the second option after Kobe rarely faced a double, and was allowed to charge back then. Plus the Lakers were the league's darlings and got call after call and series after series handed to them by the zebras, year after year. The years Shaq got the rings he was either second fiddle to Kobe or Wade. Timmy was earning Finals MVP. This last season when the Spurs did not deserve to be there, Parker emerged, also some help from Manu. But back then, it was Timmy, you knew it was him, and he still got the ball and scored. I would take Tim Duncan over Shaq anyday, no matter what position they play. And if Shaq was not a giant monster, it would not be close. Basketball skills and fundamentals lean heavily into Duncan's favor. Besdies, how many bad movies did Timmy make?
Best Wishes...OF :cheers
Would Bill Russell and Wilt be effective this era, this day and age? Even with all of the training, perfect diets, whatever advantages they could get I would say no. They were frontrunners to what is common today. Maybe they were the models for future players. But both played when the league was shifting from all white slow guy teams. There are some teams now that have zero white guys on the roster. They dominated, but Russell did with a stacked deck, and Wilt had huge numbers on a crummy team most of the time, as he was so tall he got all the boards and dunked over the other teams white midgets.
As far as the ongoing, neverending Timmy Shaq debate, there is one point you must take into consideration. Timmy had very little if any help, was the go to guy, and still beat double teams. Shaq was actually the second option after Kobe rarely faced a double, and was allowed to charge back then. Plus the Lakers were the league's darlings and got call after call and series after series handed to them by the zebras, year after year. The years Shaq got the rings he was either second fiddle to Kobe or Wade. Timmy was earning Finals MVP. This last season when the Spurs did not deserve to be there, Parker emerged, also some help from Manu. But back then, it was Timmy, you knew it was him, and he still got the ball and scored. I would take Tim Duncan over Shaq anyday, no matter what position they play. And if Shaq was not a giant monster, it would not be close. Basketball skills and fundamentals lean heavily into Duncan's favor. Besdies, how many bad movies did Timmy make?
Best Wishes...OF :cheers