Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Article today in the Boston Globe by Nick Cafardo talking about Schilling and his status in the HOF. He pooled writers who vote and some said yes and some said no. Argument for HOF:

1. HE has won 20 games 3 times
2. He has posted 3 seasons with 300 or more strikeouts and has 3,116 for his career (14th all time)
3. In 20 seasons he has 83 complete games and 20 shutouts
4. Has has been one of the best pitchers on teams that have been to the World Series 4 times winning 3 times
5. In 4 postseason starts last year he went 3-0 including a 2-1 victory in game 2 that was huge
6. His 11 playoff wins are 5th all time
7. Schilling is a 6 time all star and co MVP of the 2001 world series
8. .597 win percentage, 3.46 ERA and 11-2 postseason

What works against him is that he only has 216 total victories. It will not be easy for him to get in. Cafardo said the poll "bodes well" for his chances. It looked pretty even but maybe a few more YES's.


Jman needs to finalize the decision?
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

They talked about this on FOX today, did you see it TOm?

They both said he wasn't a sure thing but would probably get in 'eventually'.

I would lean to yes...If I was voting I would pass.
 
TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
They talked about this on FOX today, did you see it TOm?

They both said he wasn't a sure thing but would probably get in 'eventually'.

I would lean to yes...If I was voting I would pass.
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No, I did not see but wish i did. You can make a STRONG case either way. I say yes but mainly by just looking at Schilling.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

They pretty much said the same things...weak early career, huge post season player on 3 titles but they both said not first ballot (kinda surprised they said that) usually players fresh on the minds of the writers will get an over valued opinion when they first retire, so maybe not.
 
d ray

d ray

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

schilling is not a hall of famer IMO. too many good/better pitchers that have not made it. Never won a Cy Young
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

d ray said:
schilling is not a hall of famer IMO. too many good/better pitchers that have not made it. Never won a Cy Young
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well he is a 3 time runner up...


I lean to no but the way they let really good players in now days, he'll probably make it.
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Curt Schilling said himself he doesnt feel he is a HOF... I love this guy
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

They had another vote from writers and it was med but more against him getting in. It is going to be awhile before we find out.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

TomBrady#1 said:
They had another vote from writers and it was med but more against him getting in. It is going to be awhile before we find out.
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Yeah 5 years at least....and he may try and pitch still, so it might be more like 7 yrs...and remember this, when the dust settles and players sit for 5 years they tend to slip a little in the perception of the voters.

Do you think the Crime Dog Fred McGriff is getting in?
 
TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
Yeah 5 years at least....and he may try and pitch still, so it might be more like 7 yrs...and remember this, when the dust settles and players sit for 5 years they tend to slip a little in the perception of the voters.

Do you think the Crime Dog Fred McGriff is getting in?
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I would have to look at the numbers. Can you provide? But do not go nuts. Initially my thoughts are no but I know he had longevity on his side.

Jman, Schilling has got my vote locked up. I have to!
 
texansfan

texansfan

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

He's definitely not a 1st ballot HOF'er but he's likely to get in after a few years.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Buster Olney said that Schilling might have a problem as a borderline HOFer because there are a lot of media who don't like him
 
texansfan

texansfan

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
I don't think he gets in 1st ballot , that I am certain.
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I agree. If he does indeed make it in after his first year of eligibility it will be largely based on his post season performances.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

TomBrady#1 said:
he could go against CLemens and Bonds in 5 years. Of course NOW the jury on those two is up in the air as well.
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Clemens will never get in Tom....as hard as that is to believe, believe it.

Bonds will get in.
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
Clemens will never get in Tom....as hard as that is to believe, believe it.

Bonds will get in.
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REALLY? Powerful statement. Bonds could go to jail. Why is Clemens a certain NO and Bonds not?
 
texansfan

texansfan

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Maybe the HOF needs a separate wing for all of it's degenerate players.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Clemens has already landed in the McGwire territory, I personally don't believe Barry has...most writers still think Barry was a HOFer before all of this....what Roger has done just by lying, he is the Big Mac of the pitchers.

The whole congress thing has killed Roger's chances....stunning, all he had to do was say something like Andy did and it would have been over, instead he took the Pete Rose route (denying everything) and we know where Pete sits on HOF weekend, OUTSIDE!
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

TomBrady#1 said:
REALLY? Powerful statement. Bonds could go to jail. Why is Clemens a certain NO and Bonds not?
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Clemens and Bonds should get in.

People want to hold it against Clemens because he might have used steroids on a few occasions but they aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt that he might have had to pitch to plenty of hitters who were on the juice while he was not. Its too slippery of a slope to play, especially with a guy like Clemens who's an all time great player. You don't become an all time great player just because of juice, 99% of Clemens career is legit.

If you take away all the games Clemens pitched while he was on juice and take away all the hits that players got against him while THEY were on the juice and its still a HOF career.

Juice doesn't make a non hall of famer into a hall of famer, it doesn't work that way. If it did, we'd have a lot more players in the HOF discussion.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

EOG Master
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

I agree Kid. Clemens should be in the HOF, I think he ruined it himself.

Both were HOFers before this issue IMO. When Roger started is a big question IMO, he could have dabbled in steroids all the way back when he left Boston for Toronto, I remember thinking he was done, and he basically had an entire whole nother career after Boston.

what a mess.
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
Clemens has already landed in the McGwire territory, I personally don't believe Barry has...most writers still think Barry was a HOFer before all of this....what Roger has done just by lying, he is the Big Mac of the pitchers.

The whole congress thing has killed Roger's chances....stunning, all he had to do was say something like Andy did and it would have been over, instead he took the Pete Rose route (denying everything) and we know where Pete sits on HOF weekend, OUTSIDE!
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Roger, is so arrogant it is unreal. Even in Bosoton way back his arrogance was over the top in many instances (one time he complained about having to carryhis own bags at the airport..he took a lot of heat for this...can you imagine the avg fan reaction to a guy who gets paid MILLIONS to play baseball 6 months a year?..Also he complained a lot about his wife seats at Fenway directly behind home plate and MUCH MORE). Yeah his denials were not good. I hope he takes heat because he should. What a liar when he could have gotten off with a little humility. I am not sure it is definitely going to play out exactly like this but it definitely could. Barry could be in trouble too though I am not sure how it effects his HOF chances. I do not think jail helps though. LOL...
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
I'll say this upfront, and we've discussed Curt before....the ONLY reason he gets in is his historic post season moments, now lets take a look.
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Why do we give a player credit for being on good teams that were able to GET to the postseason?

Are we going to put Trent Dilfer in the HOF because he happened to play on the Ravens that year?

Are we NOT going to put Dan Marino in the HOF because he happened to never win the big game?

I believe we just have to go on regular season accomplishments because playoffs is so random that its not fair to players who got unlucky to be stuck on shitty teams their entire career. If Schilling is HOF worthy, he would be HOF worthy if he played his entire career on the Milwaukee Brewers or KC Royals.
 
5teamparlay

5teamparlay

1
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

READ THIS:
  • Shilling for Schilling
    During Saturday's baseball Game of the Week on Fox, announcer Thom Brennaman had some powerful words regarding Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling, who is out for the season with shoulder surgery and might retire.
    "I've never seen a more fearless performer in any sport in my life,'' Brennaman said, "than Curt Schilling was in that 2001 year.''
    That's the season Schilling went 22-6 in the regular season for the Diamondbacks then pitched six postseason games, going 4-0 while allowing six earned runs in 481/3 innings. So is Schilling a Hall of Famer? Well, consider this: Schilling won only 216 regular-season games with a 3.46 ERA. Bert Blyleven is not in the Hall and he won 287 games with a 3.31 ERA. Orel Hershiser won 204 games with a 3.48 ERA, and he's not in the Hall, either. Schilling's postseason numbers might push him over the top. He went 11-2 with a 2.23 in the postseason and won three championships. Still, Blyleven went 5-1 in the postseason with a 2.47 ERA and has two rings. Hershiser was 8-3 in the postseason with a 2.59 ERA and pretty much single-handedly willed the Dodgers to the 1988 World Series title, winning the NLCS and World Series MVPs.
    One more thought when you're comparing postseason numbers: Schilling had the benefit of an extra round in the playoffs, something Blyleven and Hershiser never had. Throw out Schilling's first-round playoff numbers and he was 7-2 in the postseason. In fact, if it weren't for the wild card, the 2004 Red Sox might not have even made the playoffs -- and the whole bloody sock game wouldn't have happened.
    This isn't as much an argument against Schilling as it is for Blyleven and Hershiser. If one gets in, all three should get in.




BTW JAVY VASQUEZ qill have better #'s than Schilling, no way.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

5teamparlay said:
READ THIS:
  • Shilling for Schilling
    During Saturday's baseball Game of the Week on Fox, announcer Thom Brennaman had some powerful words regarding Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling, who is out for the season with shoulder surgery and might retire.
    "I've never seen a more fearless performer in any sport in my life,'' Brennaman said, "than Curt Schilling was in that 2001 year.''
    That's the season Schilling went 22-6 in the regular season for the Diamondbacks then pitched six postseason games, going 4-0 while allowing six earned runs in 481/3 innings. So is Schilling a Hall of Famer? Well, consider this: Schilling won only 216 regular-season games with a 3.46 ERA. Bert Blyleven is not in the Hall and he won 287 games with a 3.31 ERA. Orel Hershiser won 204 games with a 3.48 ERA, and he's not in the Hall, either. Schilling's postseason numbers might push him over the top. He went 11-2 with a 2.23 in the postseason and won three championships. Still, Blyleven went 5-1 in the postseason with a 2.47 ERA and has two rings. Hershiser was 8-3 in the postseason with a 2.59 ERA and pretty much single-handedly willed the Dodgers to the 1988 World Series title, winning the NLCS and World Series MVPs.
    One more thought when you're comparing postseason numbers: Schilling had the benefit of an extra round in the playoffs, something Blyleven and Hershiser never had. Throw out Schilling's first-round playoff numbers and he was 7-2 in the postseason. In fact, if it weren't for the wild card, the 2004 Red Sox might not have even made the playoffs -- and the whole bloody sock game wouldn't have happened.
    This isn't as much an argument against Schilling as it is for Blyleven and Hershiser. If one gets in, all three should get in.
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This is exactly the point I made earlier, much is made of his posts season stats, too much players today namely Yankees , Red Sox and Braves players all play so many more post season games because of the additional ROUNDS(when it comes to this argument) most of the HOF players never even played a playoff game let alone two series, there were no playoffs before 1969 ...

Guess nobody remembers Schilling was a decent to avg pitcher until age 30...

The HOF is not for the very good 'at times'.:doh1
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
[/list]
This is exactly the point I made earlier, much is made of his posts season stats, too much players today namely Yankees , Red Sox and Braves players all play so many more post season games because of the additional ROUNDS(when it comes to this argument) most of the HOF players never even played a playoff game let alone two series, there were no playoffs before 1969 ...

Guess nobody remembers Schilling was a decent to avg pitcher until age 30...

The HOF is not for the very good 'at times'.:doh1
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Right and 216 wins is only 216 wins. He postseason is still great whether it was short or not. He would have had a few less wins but still was huge in the WS and the bloody sock and all that, Co MVP, etc. IF you look at certain stats, he is very very impressive. Others in comparison not as impressive. I think you can make a pretty strong case either way. This is what makes it all interesting. I am going to agree with Jman on WHATEVER he decides.
 
mofome

mofome

Banned
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

I think the top 15 in Ks is the only thing thats overly impressive. The career ERA is nice as well.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

TomBrady#1 said:
Right and 216 wins is only 216 wins. He postseason is still great whether it was short or not. He would have had a few less wins but still was huge in the WS and the bloody sock and all that, Co MVP, etc. IF you look at certain stats, he is very very impressive. Others in comparison not as impressive. I think you can make a pretty strong case either way. This is what makes it all interesting. I am going to agree with Jman on WHATEVER he decides.
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I cannot look oast the first half of his career Tom, a 14 win season and a 16 win season, all he had at age 30...I remember Schilling VERY well back then, he came up as an out of control Oriole, finally the O's packaged him with Finley and Harnisch in one of the worst trades of alltime for Glenn Davis lol...Schilling was a very immature player back then, they use to say a lot of things in the newspaper here locally about how he was a wild man, undisciplined etc...he really grew up when he got to the Phillies...it really is a remarkable transformation when I think back to then.

His case will be one of the toughest because of the mediocre start and tremendous finish , I wish we didn't have to wait 5 yrs to see. :+clueless
 
TomBrady#1

TomBrady#1

EOG Dedicated
Re: Jman, Bob Ryan just said Schilling is a sure HOFer...

Journeyman said:
I cannot look oast the first half of his career Tom, a 14 win season and a 16 win season, all he had at age 30...I remember Schilling VERY well back then, he came up as an out of control Oriole, finally the O's packaged him with Finley and Harnisch in one of the worst trades of alltime for Glenn Davis lol...Schilling was a very immature player back then, they use to say a lot of things in the newspaper here locally about how he was a wild man, undisciplined etc...he really grew up when he got to the Phillies...it really is a remarkable transformation when I think back to then.

His case will be one of the toughest because of the mediocre start and tremendous finish , I wish we didn't have to wait 5 yrs to see. :+clueless
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He was initially in the Boston farm system, correct?
 
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