THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1


THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

written August 27, 2008 by The Shrink

EOG has learned that an article about Bodog that appeared in Forbes magazine may not have been entirely accurate. It contained several mistakes that the Morris Mohawk Gaming Group felt compelled to clarify for their customers.

Most of Bodog customers already know the following:

1: All operators outsource payment processing functions to third parties and these payment processors are subject to regulatory constraints wherever they operate.

2: Occasionally in the US, they are subject to legal action because of the uncertain legal environment.

However, the seizure of funds from these US payment processors was mischaracterized in this article, which refers to two specific legal cases against US processors. Right or wrong, the article does not make a clear distinction between these cases, which, as a result, paints a misleading picture.

The facts are these: the first of these cases – relating to a seizure of funds from a processor known as JBL Services – happened a long time ago and has absolutely nothing to do with the current payment processing challenges being experienced in the US. The constraints being experienced by payment processors in the US are universal in that region and not specific to any particular processor or site.

Also, it is imperative to note not one single player failed to get paid when this processor was disrupted.

The second case refers to a payment processor known as Zippayments.com and seizure of funds from this processor’s bank accounts in Nevada. The article falsely implies – but notably does not go so far as to state - that $9.9M seized from Zippayment’s Nevada bank accounts were funds on account for “Bodog”.

This is simply not true.

Processing partners with whom the Morris Mohawk Gaming Group does business are sophisticated organizations that are perfectly clear as to the actual facts of these cases and their contexts. They are unfazed by such media hype and Morris Mohawk wishes to ensure that its customers are similarly informed. Customer deposits are safe and every player has and will always be paid.



--------Response to Layoffs--------



Bodog itself has not seen any layoffs. The rumors persisting about layoffs at Bodog have actually taken place with a firm that provides some software and marketing support, but we are confident their service levels to us have not been, and will not be, affected.

Morris Mohawk did release a small number of people in response to increased automation in certain services and an updated forecast on volumes for the coming football season. The rumors persisting about layoffs at MMGG have actually taken place with a firm that provides some software and marketing support, but we are confident their service levels to us have not been, and will not be, affected.

EOG'S conclusion:

Bodog has been a pivotal sponsor on a prominent site known for writing National Enquirer style columns. It's founder used to work for me and he is a gifted writer. However, shortly after Bodog decided not to renew their advertising contract with him, he wrote a rather scathing article about this topic. This is not the first time this bullying tactic has been launched and we do not condone this behavior.

We believe Bodog customers have nothing to worry about as far as receiving payout's and that's the bottom line. As a gambler, I'd bet a lot of coin that Bodog will be around longer than this other entity. In fact,they already have.

I feel very confident endorsing Bodog as I just returned this week from Antigua where Bodog is located. It is fiscally responsible to make some adjustments in the current climate and that's exactly what I see Bodog doing.

If anyone has any other questions about either of these topics in this column, please don't hesitate to contact me at:

shrink@eog.com

Thanks,

Ken Weitzner
 
D

durito

EOG Senior Member
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

I'd add that they are still processing same day payments outside the US. They certainly have money.
 
ballwonder

ballwonder

EOG Master
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

Shrink someone posted while you were away that payments were now 40 buisness days at Bo is this due to processing issues and if so why not attempt to find another processor than have a 40 buisness day delay if this is true.
 
ArchieBunker

ArchieBunker

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

When Ken says:

I feel very confident endorsing Bodog as I just returned this week from Antigua where Bodog is located.



That means their check cleared his bank.
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

ArchieBunker said:
When Ken says:

I feel very confident endorsing Bodog as I just returned this week from Antigua where Bodog is located.



That means their check cleared his bank.
Click to expand...

1-I wish I had 1/100th of the money Bodog has.

2-If you wish to play there and would like 5k guaranteed "insurance," simply email me...12io4j2w90

ballwonder said:
Shrink someone posted while you were away that payments were now 40 buisness days at Bo is this due to processing issues and if so why not attempt to find another processor than have a 40 buisness day delay if this is true.
Click to expand...

It is definitely due to processing delays affecting most of this industry...

I will gladly pay anyone 90 cents on the dollar for their bodog balance...

THE SHRINK
 
ArchieBunker

ArchieBunker

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

<TABLE class=tborder id=post1451636 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 1px solid"> 08-27-08, 10:46 AM <!-- / status icon and date --></TD><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 1px solid" align=right> #7 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 0px solid" width=175>THE SHRINK<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1451636", true); </SCRIPT>
EOG FOUNDER



Join Date: Jul 19, 2005
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 24,148


</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_1451636 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid"><!-- icon and title --> Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG
<HR style="COLOR: #2b295e" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by ArchieBunker

When Ken says:

I feel very confident endorsing Bodog as I just returned this week from Antigua where Bodog is located.



That means their check cleared his bank.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
1-I wish I had 1/100th of the money Bodog has.

2-If you wish to play there and would like 5k guaranteed "insurance," simply email me...12io4j2w90

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


I wish I had 1/100 of their money to. It's a shame they don't want to part with it in a timely manner. As far as playing there, I've had two friends booted for winning and getting a number a little too quickly too often. It's a square book that's good for the rec bettor. And they pay their advertising bills. 12io4j2w90
 
OSUCOWBOYS

OSUCOWBOYS

2
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

ArchieBunker said:
I wish I had 1/100 of their money to. It's a shame they don't want to part with it in a timely manner. As far as playing there, I've had two friends booted for winning and getting a number a little too quickly too often. It's a square book that's good for the rec bettor. And they pay their advertising bills. 12io4j2w90
Click to expand...

That is nothing I wouldnt do either Archie. You cant work your ass off too make money then give it all away to sharps/beards. Getting beat by someone picking winners is fine by me. Getting beat by someone who beats the closing line by 1-3 points every time aint gonna happen long to any smart business man.
 
trytrytry

trytrytry

All I do is trytrytry
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

i like bodog in that they have lots of props to choose from ..they are not reduced juice or anything but they do off major sports and props on lots of stuff that have value...
 
pvcpipe

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

The nice price on dogs just isn't worth the hassle of a 3 month payout process, IMO.
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

I see that the National Enquirer is continuing to "extort" Bodog by printing more negative BS about them because they wouldn't renew an advertising contract there...

What amazes me is that BODOG must have paid this site well over several hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years and this is the treatment they get for leaving? :+clueless

When gambling portals or online magazines don't perform well for sports books, the sports books should be able to leave without this treatment...

It reflects poorly on us all...

My 2 cents,

THE SHRINK
 
mr merlin

mr merlin

EOG Master
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

Shrink - don't you really think that not 40 days but 40 business days is unacceptable? You know how gamblers are, they get on a hot streak and want and need that money, now, not two or three months from now.
 
royalfan

royalfan

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

Beat these guys like a red headed step child. I might take you up on the 90 percent Shrink. Going to take a long time to get my money out of that. Bounced checks, failed card transfers, you name it. It is a circus over there.
 
Anton Chigurh

Anton Chigurh

2
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

royalfan said:
Beat these guys like a red headed step child. I might take you up on the 90 percent Shrink. Going to take a long time to get my money out of that. Bounced checks, failed card transfers, you name it. It is a circus over there.
Click to expand...


<TABLE class=tborder id=post5676132 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #fdde82 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #fdde82 0px solid" width=175>parlayin<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_5676132", true); </SCRIPT>
RX Senior

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,328


</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_5676132 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #fdde82 1px solid"><!-- icon and title -->
<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by royalfan
Although good to see Rail grinding out some small profits as I would expect from him, glad I haven't missed much and went ahead and killed the olympics on my own. This event only comes along every so often, and can't afford to get blinded my a lesser talent's plays. Some lines on these things are absolutely priceless.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Unless you actually post your plays, statements like these are worthless. Everyone knows that, and you've been around the various forums long enough to understand that policy. If you're so interested in getting internet props that you have to go into someone else's picks thread to brag about how much better you're doing than the OP, just start your own picks thread so we can all see and tell you how great you are, if the acclaim is actually warranted. I've seen many posts from you throughout the years claiming to be a huge winner at many obscure sports (as well as major ones), so on the rare occasion you did decide to post picks, I paid special attention. I just had to see what all the fuss/drama was about. Honestly, I've always been left unimpressed, scratching my head and wondering why you even bothered to build up the hype if you couldn't deliver. Nothing more hilarious than a poster who talks the world of himself, posts a few picks, flames out, then crawls back into his cave, only to repeat said process a year later. Granted, I don't catch everything and maybe I just missed your millions of winners...but I'd guess your posted record is mediocre or average at best. I'm sure your super duper secret unconfirmed record is unbelievable, however. Railbird may often be the first to toot his own horn after a big win, but at least he has the balls to post his picks and deal with the criticism shall he lose. That's why he continues to get a certain level of respect from other posters, while you sit there green with envy, making preposterous claims that you know will never be substantiated.
<!-- / message --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #fdde82 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #fdde82 1px solid"> </TD><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #fdde82 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #fdde82 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #fdde82 1px solid" align=right><!-- controls --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Would this qualify as a preposterous claim that will never be substantiated? I'd vote yes.
 
5teamparlay

5teamparlay

1
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

THIS IS HORSESHIT!!! and EOG books should have a higher standard!!



I just got off the phone with them in regards to a july 24th withdrawal, they said I should get a tracking # the 4th week ofseptember???wtf???%@%@^
 
milwaukeemike

milwaukeemike

2
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

shrink will you also pay 90 cents on the dollar for outstanding withdrawals?
just curious - i'm not sure whether or not bodog can cancel withdrawals.

i will probably get my june 21st withdrawal soon, but i have a july 1 and an august 1 and also some future stuff that will cash.

if i don't get a courier in the next 2 weeks for those first 2 withdrawals i would be more than happy to sell for 90%.
 
royalfan

royalfan

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

Anton Chigurh said:
<table class="tborder" id="post5676132" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt2" style="border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(253, 222, 130); border-width: 0px 1px;" width="175">parlayin<script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_5676132", true); </script>
RX Senior

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,328


</td><td class="alt1" id="td_post_5676132" style="border-right: 1px solid rgb(253, 222, 130);"><!-- icon and title -->
<hr style="color: rgb(253, 222, 130);" size="1"><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">Originally Posted by royalfan
Although good to see Rail grinding out some small profits as I would expect from him, glad I haven't missed much and went ahead and killed the olympics on my own. This event only comes along every so often, and can't afford to get blinded my a lesser talent's plays. Some lines on these things are absolutely priceless.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Unless you actually post your plays, statements like these are worthless. Everyone knows that, and you've been around the various forums long enough to understand that policy. If you're so interested in getting internet props that you have to go into someone else's picks thread to brag about how much better you're doing than the OP, just start your own picks thread so we can all see and tell you how great you are, if the acclaim is actually warranted. I've seen many posts from you throughout the years claiming to be a huge winner at many obscure sports (as well as major ones), so on the rare occasion you did decide to post picks, I paid special attention. I just had to see what all the fuss/drama was about. Honestly, I've always been left unimpressed, scratching my head and wondering why you even bothered to build up the hype if you couldn't deliver. Nothing more hilarious than a poster who talks the world of himself, posts a few picks, flames out, then crawls back into his cave, only to repeat said process a year later. Granted, I don't catch everything and maybe I just missed your millions of winners...but I'd guess your posted record is mediocre or average at best. I'm sure your super duper secret unconfirmed record is unbelievable, however. Railbird may often be the first to toot his own horn after a big win, but at least he has the balls to post his picks and deal with the criticism shall he lose. That's why he continues to get a certain level of respect from other posters, while you sit there green with envy, making preposterous claims that you know will never be substantiated.
<!-- / message --></td></tr><tr><td class="alt2" style="border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(253, 222, 130); border-width: 0px 1px 1px;"> </td><td class="alt1" style="border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(253, 222, 130); border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px;" align="right"><!-- controls --></td></tr></tbody></table>


Would this qualify as a preposterous claim that will never be substantiated? I'd vote yes.
Click to expand...


What is your guess on how much I have there you fucking fruitcake alter ego douchebag?
 
J

JPFisher55

EOG Member
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

I am an online poker player so I do not bet on sports. In early July, I deposited $1k on Bodog through an ewallet Ewalletxpress. I enjoyed playing on Bodog, but it is only my secondary site. I preferred it to Poker Stars as a secondary site.

However, about one week ago, I became concerned when I read posts on 2+2 Publishing forum about delayed cashouts from Bodog, especially from long time customers. Then APCW released a video with a report on Bodog advising that some affiliates were having difficulty getting paid. The G911 articles did not mean much to me.

So I decided to investigate cashing out. First, I went to the payout page and noticed that Ewalletxpress was not listed as a cashout option. This alarmed me because the only other poker room that failed to pay me had ewallets from which they would accept deposits, but not permit withdrawals. I emailed Bodog to confirm that I could not cashout to my Ewalletxpress account. Their affirmative reply was prompt.

I didn't really want to cashout and not be able to have this part of my bankroll available for play. Then, I visited a website called SPR that rated online sports books. Since early July, they have lowered Bodog's rating from A to C, which means that player deposits carry some risk of loss. So yesterday, I decided to cashout. I hope I get my money by Thanksgiving.

I have two questions for Shrink. 1. Why won't Bodog permit US players to cashout to their Ewalletxpress account? Can't non-US players cashout to Neteller?
2. If you are so sure about the safety of money in Bodog, then why only 90%. I could see a couple of percent off 100 for the time delay to cashout, but 90% tells me that you are not completely sure that Bodog will remain solvent.

For the record, I blame Bush's DOJ for all these problems; not the management of Bodog.
 
D

durito

EOG Senior Member
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

I don't know anything about Ewalletexpress so this is just speculation.

But, any money transfer sight these days needs to stay as low key as possible or they are done for. Bodog is very high profile (they are hopefully trying not to be so much anymore).

It seems to me that the poker sites are trying to keep their processing/money transfer methods away from sport gambling. They are trying to get online poker made legal in the US as a game of skill complete seperate from sports gambling. As far as I can tell they are trying to distance themselves as much as possible from sports gambling.

Either one of these reasons could have caused bodog to not be able to use that transfer method anymore. Surely they would use it if they could. Contrary to what many people seem to believe, Bodog would pay everyone daily if they could (they certainly used to, and they still do outside the us), it has to be hurting their business substantially the way it is right now.
 
Bucky

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

So, why the 40-60 days? They are that afraid of seizure? There has to be a black and white answer to why it takes so long. Get another freaking processor - get ten of them if they have so freaking much money. Get a processor from Canada or India or somewhere and forget about American processors. Maybe, they do - I don't know - I haven't got a check from them lately.

But, the bottom line is if a company cannot pay within a week to ten days - GOOD BYE MISS AMERICAN PIE !!!!! Who needs them? It's just post up BS. No sharps - don't play steam - we will kick you out if you win - we will take 40-60 days to pay you but we want your money up front in cash before you can play. KMFA


:mad::mad::mad:
 
T

Thor4140

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

pvcpipe said:
The nice price on dogs just isn't worth the hassle of a 3 month payout process, IMO.
Click to expand...

Win with them and see how fast those dog lines dry up. I bet i could go there right now and my lines would be different from yours. Almost every bet i was making i had to pay high juice. Its a nice book to see which side they don't want you to take as long as you have two different computers with different IP addresses.
 
D

durito

EOG Senior Member
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

bodog has always dealed two linesets, one shaded, one "sharper". If you were consistently betting the dog on the shaded lineset you got kicked to the "sharper" ones.

i don't think i've played a side there in 6 years. but they have a lot of easy props. it'll be a shame if they don't stay in business.
 
Bucky

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

It would be a bigger shame if nobody posts up for football because they heard the place was a SUCKER joint! Slow pays are slow pays are slow pays. Sad story - Sad story - Sad story.

Totally, just a sand bag play to stall for football for the bailout via football postups. That's the beauty of unregulated gambling and the incompetent mishandling of postup funds. This whole problem will go away after football starts. The cheapskates are hoping the players cancel the payouts so they can bet on football.


:+whipping:+whipping:+whipping
 
R

Rookie Project

EOG Member
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

THE SHRINK said:
Bodog has been a pivotal sponsor on a prominent site known for writing National Enquirer style columns. It's founder used to work for me and he is a gifted writer. However, shortly after Bodog decided not to renew their advertising contract with him, he wrote a rather scathing article about this topic. This is not the first time this bullying tactic has been launched and we do not condone this behavior.


Thanks,

Ken Weitzner
Click to expand...

I do not understand this. If you are buying protection, would not that protection cease once the payments stop? Or are you saying Sting is lying in this case, similar to what EOG did with BetOnLine once they stopped advertising here?
 
THE SHRINK

THE SHRINK

1
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

I am saying that Sting was BODOG'S NUMBER 1 FAN until they decided not to renew over there because he wasn't producing results...

The guy IDOLIZED BODOG...

Now he does a complete 180 immediately after Bodog doesn't renew?

You be the Judge....:rolleyes:

As far as BetOnline.

If you like Dalton from BOS, you will love Betonline...

To be fair, I am not hearing any recent complaints regarding them...

THE SHRINK
 
TonyMar

TonyMar

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

5teamparlay said:
THIS IS HORSESHIT!!! and EOG books should have a higher standard!!



I just got off the phone with them in regards to a july 24th withdrawal, they said I should get a tracking # the 4th week ofseptember???wtf???%@%@^
Click to expand...

this is unacceptable.

are you going to leave bodog over this?

even in these difficult times...there are safe books, with excellent customer service and nice promo's...that will have you paid within 48 hours...and quite possibly the same day.

taking two months to pay a customer is not acceptable.
 
Bucky

Bucky

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

Anybody getting paid yet, now that football has started? What if I win a chunk of change there at poker? It takes those guys 60 days to get paid as well? I'll bet their poker business has tanked 80%???? if that is the case.

They either have no money to pay with or this was a purge to get rid of winning players???? There has to be a better way for this company and many others to handle postup deposits. It almost like seeing a replay of those mutts from BOS. But, you can almost guess at their negative cash flow during the baseball season.

Oh, well, it's up to the Joe's to save em!
 
ArchieBunker

ArchieBunker

EOG Dedicated
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

<TABLE class=tborder id=post1458723 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 1px solid"> 08-29-08, 10:43 AM <!-- / status icon and date --></TD><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 1px solid" align=right> #35 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 0px solid" width=175>THE SHRINK<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1458723", true); </SCRIPT>
EOG FOUNDER



Join Date: Jul 19, 2005
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 24,461


</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_1458723 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid"><!-- icon and title --> Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG
<HR style="COLOR: #2b295e" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->I am saying that Sting was BODOG'S NUMBER 1 FAN until they decided not to renew over there because he wasn't producing results...

The guy IDOLIZED BODOG...

Now he does a complete 180 immediately after Bodog doesn't renew?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Sting's always been a whore to the dollar. Why are you surprised now?
 
pvcpipe

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: THE TRUTH ABOUT BODOG

i really think bodog's unsafe. one of the first times i've ever disagreed with Ken over a book.
 
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