Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Quebb Diesel said:
and what do all the critics say lebron needs to win championships? you answer that for me please!
Click to expand...


Outside Jumper? Better defense? He needs MORE players around him!! Like Skins said Lebron can D up when its a critical point in the game. And its not like hes terrible at defense
 
mofome

mofome

Banned
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
Actually I take that back. Anyone who chooses Howard shouldn't be put to sleep. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and I'm generally OK with agreeing to disagree. In regard to this specific question, however, I don't think you can make any argument for Howard. But I apologize for exaggerating the consequences of anyone choosing Howard over LBJ.

- Howard has an offensive game that isn't even mediocre. He's not a player you can throw the ball into and expect to get buckets or even to draw double-teams. The nicest thing you can say about his offensive arsenal is that he can dunk really well. That's it. You can equate his offensive game to that of Tyson Chandler. And you want to build a team around him?

- As great an off-the-ball defender as Howard is, he isn't nearly as good on the ball. And he still struggles to stay out of foul trouble.

- LeBron is a truck with arms. When he decides he wants to get to the rim, there's not much anyone can do about it. And obviously the guy can finish at the basket. Just look back to two years ago in that epic playoff game at Detroit, when he singlehandedly won it for the Cavs. EVERYBODY IN THE BUILDING knew he was going to the basket for the ties/win, including the Pistons defenders, and they STILL couldn't stop him. He essentially told Detroit "Hey, I'm going to do this at this time and you're not going to stop it." And they didn't. That was a miserable night for me personally, but it was unbelievable to watch.

- LeBron is as gifted a passer and facilitator as anyone in the league. He has superior court vision and handles double-teams as well as could be expected.

- LeBron plays pretty good defense. He's long and obviously athletic and late in games he really gets after it.

When you need a basket, when the game is on the line, you CANNOT give the ball to Dwight Howard. He can't score and he's also a horrific FT shooter. The fact that LeBron puts up the offensive #'s that he does without a consistent jumper or above-average FT shooting speaks volumes about how good the rest of his game is.
Click to expand...


what offensive game did shaq have? he was the most dominant force in the game. there are great big men that couldnt do much more than dunk and they've won it all. howard is young, i hope you're not suggesting that hes a finished product? hes this good and has so much room to improve. scary thought.
 
Q

Quebb Diesel

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

5 star bomb said:
Outside Jumper? Better defense? He needs MORE players around him!! Like Skins said Lebron can D up when its a critical point in the game. And its not like hes terrible at defense
Click to expand...

lol...they say he needs a big man!!! not more players around him

never said he was terrible at defense...he is just lazy and has no motivation to play d the majority of the game
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

mofome said:
what offensive game did shaq have? he was the most dominant force in the game. there are great big men that couldnt do much more than dunk and they've won it all. howard is young, i hope you're not suggesting that hes a finished product? hes this good and has so much room to improve. scary thought.
Click to expand...


the 2nd time someone has compared Howard to Shaq tonight... 2348ji23e 2348ji23e


Shaq did more than dunk, he is just a tank down low and did have more moves down low in the post. Howard isnt very good in the post
 
SkinsRaj28

SkinsRaj28

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Quebb Diesel said:
you dont expect your center to score from everywhere on the court...you want him to get positioning, post up, and make the higher percentage shot...
Click to expand...

I agree to a certain extent. But Howard doesn't fit the description you just offered for what you expect of a great center. The Magic don't throw the ball in to Howard for buckets on a regular basis because they have no confidence in his ability to do anything with it.

It was just last season that Howard bitched about how he wanted the ball more, how they needed to give it to him when he posted up. He went to the media and bitched. And SVG responded by going to the media and telling them that they would give him the ball if he wouldn't turn it over or miss every time, and that he should worry about rebounding and playing defense until his offensive game improved. One of the biggest reasons I love SVG; guy told his "star" how it is.

Howard doesn't command double-teams and doesn't make his teammates better offensively. He doesn't get them open looks. If you want a great center, look at Yao instead of Howard. Yao commands double-teams and the times the opponents choose not to do so, he scores. A lot. Can't say the same about Howard.
 
mofome

mofome

Banned
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

5 star bomb said:
the 2nd time someone has compared Howard to Shaq tonight... 2348ji23e 2348ji23e


Shaq did more than dunk, he is just a tank down low and did have more moves down low in the post. Howard isnt very good in the post
Click to expand...


not when he was 22. please leave the discussion i started, you're ill-equip to keep pace competently.
 
jakethompson

jakethompson

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
I agree to a certain extent. But Howard doesn't fit the description you just offered for what you expect of a great center. The Magic don't throw the ball in to Howard for buckets on a regular basis because they have no confidence in his ability to do anything with it.

It was just last season that Howard bitched about how he wanted the ball more, how they needed to give it to him when he posted up. He went to the media and bitched. And SVG responded by going to the media and telling them that they would give him the ball if he wouldn't turn it over or miss every time, and that he should worry about rebounding and playing defense until his offensive game improved. One of the biggest reasons I love SVG; guy told his "star" how it is.

Howard doesn't command double-teams and doesn't make his teammates better offensively. He doesn't get them open looks. If you want a great center, look at Yao instead of Howard. Yao commands double-teams and the times the opponents choose not to do so, he scores. A lot. Can't say the same about Howard.
Click to expand...

Just food for thought... he's hitting 66% of his shots while turning it over .5 per times less per game than Lebron.

Food...
 
mofome

mofome

Banned
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

shaq came in as a dunking machine and added some game to it. howard can do the same and, perhaps, even more. hes more athletic.
 
SkinsRaj28

SkinsRaj28

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

mofome said:
what offensive game did shaq have? he was the most dominant force in the game. there are great big men that couldnt do much more than dunk and they've won it all. howard is young, i hope you're not suggesting that hes a finished product? hes this good and has so much room to improve. scary thought.
Click to expand...

Shaq has a refined offensive game despite his lack of touch. He is a master of using his body to create space for the hooks that he has mastered and for dunks. He was the most dominant force in the game because he was the biggest, most athletic player in the league AND knew how to use his body. How many times did the ball get thrown down low to him and he made a post move to be able to dunk? All the time. Howard cannot do that.

Howard is the biggest, most athletic player in the game today, but he absolutely no idea what he's doing down low. He scores on dunks and putbacks, but not when the ball is thrown into him. And that is the single biggest difference between him and Shaq.

I also never suggested that he was a finished product. He certainly has tremendous upside. But he also has a long way to go if he ever wants to be in the same breath as Shaq.

Oh, and Howard is also not half the passer Shaq is/was.
 
Q

Quebb Diesel

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
I agree to a certain extent. But Howard doesn't fit the description you just offered for what you expect of a great center. The Magic don't throw the ball in to Howard for buckets on a regular basis because they have no confidence in his ability to do anything with it.

It was just last season that Howard bitched about how he wanted the ball more, how they needed to give it to him when he posted up. He went to the media and bitched. And SVG responded by going to the media and telling them that they would give him the ball if he wouldn't turn it over or miss every time, and that he should worry about rebounding and playing defense until his offensive game improved. One of the biggest reasons I love SVG; guy told his "star" how it is.

Howard doesn't command double-teams and doesn't make his teammates better offensively. He doesn't get them open looks. If you want a great center, look at Yao instead of Howard. Yao commands double-teams and the times the opponents choose not to do so, he scores. A lot. Can't say the same about Howard.
Click to expand...

well theres no question he gets his positioning and makes the higher percentage shots...as for his post up moves he has plenty of time to work on them...howard is 5 years younger than yao...you give howard 5 more years to polish his inside game and hell probably be the next shaq but a lot more athletic...give this guy a couple more years...itll be scary
 
jakethompson

jakethompson

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

More food for thought...

Shaq was drafted when he was 20... Howard barely at 18, maybe even 17. Howard is only 22 right now.
 
R

rjt721

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Definitely Lebron. Howard doesn't really even have an offensive game. He has no low post moves, with almost all of his points coming from offensive boards and put backs, alley oops or anything else that allows him to take advantage of his athletic ability. He's still very raw on the offensive end. But above all else, Howard doesn't receive anywhere near the attention from opposing defenses that Lebron does. One could argue Howard's the third biggest scoring threat on his own team (Turkoglu, Rashard). Conversely, you play Cleveland you have one thing on your mind - Lebron.
 
SkinsRaj28

SkinsRaj28

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

jakethompson said:
Just food for thought... he's hitting 66% of his shots while turning it over .5 per times less per game than Lebron.

Food...
Click to expand...

Who has the ball in his hands more, Howard or LeBron? It's laughable that you'd even offer up that statistic.

And when all a player does is dunk, he's going to have a high FG %. Andris Biedrins is just as good an offensive player as Howard, yet nobody talks about him because he wasn't the No. 1 pick in the draft. Biedrins relies on dunks and putbacks to get his points, and as a result LED THE NBA IN FG % last year.

You could count on one hand how many times he got the ball thrown to him down low in any given game too.
 
C

Cee

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Skins i'd take howard do to the fact a dominate center is more rare than a good scorer.
 
mofome

mofome

Banned
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
Shaq has a refined offensive game despite his lack of touch. He is a master of using his body to create space for the hooks that he has mastered and for dunks. He was the most dominant force in the game because he was the biggest, most athletic player in the league AND knew how to use his body. How many times did the ball get thrown down low to him and he made a post move to be able to dunk? All the time. Howard cannot do that.

Howard is the biggest, most athletic player in the game today, but he absolutely no idea what he's doing down low. He scores on dunks and putbacks, but not when the ball is thrown into him. And that is the single biggest difference between him and Shaq.

I also never suggested that he was a finished product. He certainly has tremendous upside. But he also has a long way to go if he ever wants to be in the same breath as Shaq.

Oh, and Howard is also not half the passer Shaq is/was.
Click to expand...


not as good a passer? perhaps not, but hes the superior rebounder. at 21/22 Howard averaged more boards per game than shaq ever did. interesting, no? howard also averaged more steals per game than shaq did in any season in his career. sha also got to grow up some in college while howard came right to the league, not as easy a place to 'work on things'. give me howard and kill me i guess.
 
A

Apple

Banned
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

HAHA

5 star bomb steals mofo's question and turns it into a platinum thread.. That is what you call talent people..
 
Q

Quebb Diesel

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

this might be going out on a limb but lebron's outside shot is just as comparable as howard's post move scoring...

howard scores the majority of his points on put backs and oops

bron scores the majority of his points driving the ball
 
SkinsRaj28

SkinsRaj28

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Quebb Diesel said:
well theres no question he gets his positioning and makes the higher percentage shots...as for his post up moves he has plenty of time to work on them...howard is 5 years younger than yao...you give howard 5 more years to polish his inside game and hell probably be the next shaq but a lot more athletic...give this guy a couple more years...itll be scary
Click to expand...

I agree, Howard has plenty of time to work on his game. And maybe in a few years he'll be a competent offensive player. But that's no guarantee.

In the meantime, I'll take the most complete player in the NBA...who also happens to be 23-years-old.

I'd imagine this question would be far more intriguing in five years than it is right now. I hope so.
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Quebb Diesel said:
this might be going out on a limb but lebron's outside shot is just as comparable as howard's post move scoring...

howard scores the majority of his points on put backs and oops

bron scores the majority of his points driving the ball
Click to expand...


the difference is Lebron's shot is just good enough to keep defense's honest. You still have to make sure your in his face or he will light you up
 
jakethompson

jakethompson

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
Who has the ball in his hands more, Howard or LeBron? It's laughable that you'd even offer up that statistic.

And when all a player does is dunk, he's going to have a high FG %. Andris Biedrins is just as good an offensive player as Howard, yet nobody talks about him because he wasn't the No. 1 pick in the draft. Biedrins relies on dunks and putbacks to get his points, and as a result LED THE NBA IN FG % last year.

You could count on one hand how many times he got the ball thrown to him down low in any given game too.
Click to expand...

It's food for thought D-Bag. Learn the term.

:party
 
R

rjt721

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Quebb Diesel said:
this might be going out on a limb but lebron's outside shot is just as comparable as howard's post move scoring...

howard scores the majority of his points on put backs and oops

bron scores the majority of his points driving the ball
Click to expand...
While being triple teamed. No one's worried about D-Howard getting his.
 
Q

Quebb Diesel

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
I agree, Howard has plenty of time to work on his game. And maybe in a few years he'll be a competent offensive player. But that's no guarantee.

In the meantime, I'll take the most complete player in the NBA...who also happens to be 30-years-old.

I'd imagine this question would be far more intriguing in five years than it is right now. I hope so.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup
 
C

Cee

2
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

SkinsRaj28 said:
I agree, Howard has plenty of time to work on his game. And maybe in a few years he'll be a competent offensive player. But that's no guarantee.

In the meantime, I'll take the most complete player in the NBA...who also happens to be 23-years-old.

I'd imagine this question would be far more intriguing in five years than it is right now. I hope so.
Click to expand...

It's tough to win without a dominant big man tho. ( win it all ) that is.

With howard u can get a good scorer through the draft or free agency and u will be good. With lebron, u will never know if u can get that dominat big man to compliment him
 
R

rjt721

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

One more thing - Howard routinely sat at the end of games during the Olympics in favor of Bosh.
 
R

rjt721

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

royalfan said:
Does not mean Bosh is better NBA player at all. He isn't.
Click to expand...
Didn't say that's what it meant. Just pointing out that the same player many in this thread would pick over Lebron was often sitting on the bench in favor of Bosh. Lebron's not being relegated to the bench in favor of anyone. I appreciate Howard's abilities as much as the next guy, but even considering taking him over Lebron is absurd.
 
royalfan

royalfan

EOG Dedicated
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

rjt721 said:
Didn't say that's what it meant. Just pointing out that the same player many in this thread would pick over Lebron was often sitting on the bench in favor of Bosh. Lebron's not being relegated to the bench in favor of anyone. I appreciate Howard's abilities as much as the next guy, but even considering taking him over Lebron is absurd.
Click to expand...


Agree on all accounts.
 
Hache Man

Hache Man

"Seven Days Without Gambling Makes One Weak"
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Howard

Funny, just the other morning on 620 AM sports radio Orlando's General Manager was asked the question if he would trade Howard for Lebron straight up.

He said that any coach, owner, or GM who who would even consider trading Howard for any current player in the league should not be affiliated with the NBA.......
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Hache Man said:
Howard

Funny, just the other morning on 620 AM sports radio Orlando's General Manager was asked the question if he would trade Howard for Lebron straight up.

He said that any coach, owner, or GM who who would even consider trading Howard for any current player in the league should not be affiliated with the NBA.......
Click to expand...


he is saying that bc hes on his team... if he had the chance he would do it in a heart beat
 
Hache Man

Hache Man

"Seven Days Without Gambling Makes One Weak"
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Naaa, I knew that would be said but I believe he's not only being honest, but he's also right.

How can anyone really say that Lebron is that much better than Howard?

Lebron is 23
Howard is 22

Can't say anything about the matchups, because I'm pretty sure Dwight & the Magic whipped Lebron head 2 head last year.

You also have to consider their positions.

The talent gap between Dwight/A Superstar Center in the league vs the next tier below are much greater than the dropoff in forwards.

No way.....Just no way you give up Howard for anyone right now



Lebron James 2008-09 Season Averages





<TABLE><THEAD><TR><TH>Points</TH><TH>Rebounds</TH><TH>Assists</TH><TH>FG%</TH></TR></THEAD><TFOOT></TFOOT><TBODY><TR><TD>29.8</TD><TD>8.4</TD><TD>6.9</TD><TD>48.5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




Dwight Howard 2008-09 Season Averages




<TABLE><THEAD><TR><TH>Points</TH><TH>Rebounds</TH><TH>Blocks</TH><TH>FG%</TH></TR></THEAD><TFOOT></TFOOT><TBODY><TR><TD>23.9</TD><TD>15.0</TD><TD>4.4</TD><TD>64.2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>






Also, Dwight has Rashard Lewis & Hedo Turkoglu taking away from his numbers while Lebron's numbers get more of a pad because of his surroundings.....
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

Also, Dwight has Rashard Lewis & Hedo Turkoglu taking away from his numbers while Lebron's numbers get more of a pad because of his surroundings.....


Which is exactly why it makes it even more impressive what Lebron does. He basically has no help and hes still gotten his team to the Finals and is better than Howard.
 
Hache Man

Hache Man

"Seven Days Without Gambling Makes One Weak"
Re: Lebron James or Dwight Howard....

:+clueless


Cavs had a lot of depth that year & Larry Hughes, Ilgauskas, and one of the most underrated players in the league in Drew Gooden, who the Cavs still had, did their part to help Cleveland get through the watered down East at the time. And San Antonio proved that & showed that the Cavs had no business there by sweeping them.


Debate is fun & we can always agree to disagree.....:cheers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top