Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

[Flamingo kid]

I had a discussion with someone last night about credit card companies and how they basically are ruining the country and here's my point.

Lets say there there was a US law that said no one (companies) is allowed to lend money to anyone else. In other words, if you can't afford to purchase something outright, in cash, in full, you can't buy it.

If i go into 7/11 and want a pack of gum, its 99 cents. Either i can afford the 99 cents or i cannot. I'm not going to take out a loan and sign a gazillion forms to 'finance' part of that gum. I either can afford it today, or i don't buy it.

Now, with subprime mortgages, those little puppies inflated house prices SO high that anyone who actually had cash in the bank (to buy a house outright, by writing a check) got the shaft. Those people saw houses go up so high in value, that it was worth it to just keep their money in the bank and not spend a penny.

My theory was that if there was no 'credit' and everyone had to either purchase with cash (on the spot, paid in full without the help of a company lending you money) prices wouldn't be as high as they are. There wouldn't be as much 'inflation'.

Would the country be worse off if there was just no credit card companies and you could only buy stuff with money you currently have?

I know we are too far gone at this point, but if CC companies (and companies who loan money at a fixed rate) were never invented in the first place, this country might be better off.

Would we be better off or worse off? Inflation and lending seems to actually only hurt people who have money and not the people who do not.

What incentive does Joe Schmoe have to go out and make something of himself if a company is just going to come along and lend him a million bucks to buy a house?

 

[Doc Mercer]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Nothing better than being behind someone that runs up a massive $4.11
"shopping venture" and they have to use a damn credit card

 

[janus]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

its not credit that's bad, its the abuse of credit... kinda like food.

but you're right that this entire economic mess was caused by the abuse of credit by consumers & lenders. that's what makes the $1 trillion "stimulus" so comical... its forcing even more debt on a nation that's already dopesick from it.

 

[texansfan]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I believe this argument has two sides. First off, the CC companies knowingly give credit to people when they know damn well the person can't really afford to pay it back. They constantly send out credit offers several times a week through the mail as well.

My 2nd point is this, what ever happened to personal responsibility? Should we bail out a person who makes 30k a year but has 10 CC's with a balance of say 20k?

Should loans or CC's be given out to people only with credit scores over 700?

As far as housing goes you need credit. How many people out there can afford to pay cash ofr a house?

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Nothing better than being behind someone that runs up a massive $4.11
"shopping venture" and they have to use a damn credit card

I hear you loud and clear. Something is seriously wrong. I hardly ever see anyone paying with cash, regardless of how much it costs.

Its probably the govt's way of 'phasing out cash' so they can 'track' all your purchases and transactions to see that you are paying uncle samuel his share of the extortion money.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I believe this argument has two sides. First off, the CC companies knowingly give credit to people when they know damn well the person can't really afford to pay it back. They constantly send out credit offers several times a week through the mail as well.

My 2nd point is this, what ever happened to personal responsibility? Should we bail out a person who makes 30k a year but has 10 CC's with a balance of say 20k?

Should loans or CC's be given out to people only with credit scores over 700?

As far as housing goes you need credit. How many people out there can afford to pay cash ofr a house?

No one CURRENTLY would be able to buy a house with cash. BUT, houses would be much less if no one bought them. a one bedroom cubbyhole in Manhattan Beach, Calif wouldn't be 500k, it would be much much less. Also, if you can't afford to purchase a house, you can rent one. No shame in renting if you can't buy one outright.

 

[janus]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I hear you loud and clear. Something is seriously wrong. I hardly ever see anyone paying with cash, regardless of how much it costs.

Its probably the govt's way of 'phasing out cash' so they can 'track' all your purchases and transactions to see that you are paying uncle samuel his share of the extortion money.

i dont ever use cash for anything anymore... its inconvenient. i use my card to pay for everything & then pay off my balances in full each month via online billpay. no cash at all.

 

[texansfan]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I hear you loud and clear. Something is seriously wrong. I hardly ever see anyone paying with cash, regardless of how much it costs.

Its probably the govt's way of 'phasing out cash' so they can 'track' all your purchases and transactions to see that you are paying uncle samuel his share of the extortion money.

Well, just because it's plastic doesn't mean it's a credit card. I use a check card when I make purchases. I can't recall the last time I have ever actually written a paper check.

 

[texansfan]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

No one CURRENTLY would be able to buy a house with cash. BUT, houses would be much less if no one bought them. a one bedroom cubbyhole in Manhattan Beach, Calif wouldn't be 500k, it would be much much less. Also, if you can't afford to purchase a house, you can rent one. No shame in renting if you can't buy one outright.

Why punish those of us who buy a house and make payments monthly? A purchase such as a house is going to require credit, there's no way around that one.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Well, just because it's plastic doesn't mean it's a credit card. I use a check card when I make purchases. I can't recall the last time I have ever actually written a paper check.

Debit cards are fine, i'm just talking about people buying things they don't currently have the money for.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Why punish those of us who buy a house and make payments monthly? A purchase such as a house is going to require credit, there's no way around that one.

I'm not punishing you, i'm just saying that if you had to buy that house outright, it would cost much less and the people who actually HAVE the cash in the bank, would be able to purchase it outright. The only reason they are able to price real estate in the hundreds of thousands of dollars is because of loans. Houses back in the day cost 10 thousand. I remember as a kid my parents almost bought a 4 bedroom house for like 40 grand...this was in a decent neighborhood in a large metro area back in the 1970s. That same house today is 500k.

 

[janus]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I'm not punishing you, i'm just saying that if you had to buy that house outright, it would cost much less and the people who actually HAVE the cash in the bank, would be able to purchase it outright. The only reason they are able to price real estate in the hundreds of thousands of dollars is because of loans. Houses back in the day cost 10 thousand. I remember as a kid my parents almost bought a 4 bedroom house for like 40 grand...this was in a decent neighborhood in a large metro area back in the 1970s. That same house today is 500k.

exactly.

 

[texansfan]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

The house my Dad still lives in today cost around 20k. Do you know how much money that was in 1969? Of course interest on the house is what's costly. That's why when I bought my house I got a 15 year loan versus a 30 year loan. It still wouldn't matter if my house cost 50k, I would still need a loan to help pay for it.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

The house my Dad still lives in today cost around 20k. Do you know how much money that was in 1969? Of course interest on the house is what's costly. That's why when I bought my house I got a 15 year loan versus a 30 year loan. It still wouldn't matter if my house cost 50k, I would still need a loan to help pay for it.

You are not alone. Many would still need a loan to buy a 50k house.

So, hear me out on this....if that is true and most people would still need a loan for a 50k house and there was no such thing as a loan, the owner of that house would not be able to price his house at 50k because the market would not bear that price. He'd have to lower it until someone WAS able to write a check for the entire purchase. Maybe that house would be 20k instead of 50k.

Or, if 20k was too high, the price would be 10k.

 

[janus]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

not only is the price of real estate massively inflated because of america's credit gluttony, imagine the value of the stock market if credit were "less available". look at a graph of the DJIA from 1930 thru 2006... does that look like a gradual climb to anyone? in the early nineties it shot thru the roof because the Fed was practicing 'easy money' policy for political purposes, encouraging debt like drug pushers.

look at the graph and ask yourself how much further the market could fall during this 'credit correction'. hideous.

 

[texansfan]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I see your point but I still think it comes down to this, personal responsibility. This country used to be based on morals and values, not so much anymore imo. When our parents grew up people were more responsible imo. I think most people back then lived their lives knowing that if they couldn't afford something then they didn't buy it.

We live in a crazy credit we must have it now type of world today. A lot of people live life thinking that if their CC's aren't maxed out they have money to spend.

I'd be interested in knowing how many kids there are in college today that have CC problems. These companies give these kids CC's knowing they probably don't even have a job.

This brings me back again to my point made earlier. Why aren't parents teaching their kids the importance of money and telling them to stay away from CC's? Where has personal responsibility gone in this country? How smart does one need to be to know that if you're a part-time bartender you don't need a CC with a 10k credit limit?

 

[High Times]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

The banks are the biggest abusers of money. They make horrible loans and use the credit they have in the worst possible manner and now they are billions in debt because of their very bad business decisions.

I heard someone say that when Obama put a $500,000 cap on corporate bosses who need money in this bailout plan that this will chase away the "talent" that will choose another job.

This person actually said that these corporate bosses of the banks are talented?

They are so talented that they destroyed the value of every house in this country. Yea they are talented all right.

What a fricken joke these people are.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I see your point but I still think it comes down to this, personal responsibility. This country used to be based on morals and values, not so much anymore imo. When our parents grew up people were more responsible imo. I think most people back then lived their lives knowing that if they couldn't afford something then they didn't buy it.

We live in a crazy credit we must have it now type of world today. A lot of people live life thinking that if their CC's aren't maxed out they have money to spend.

I'd be interested in knowing how many kids there are in college today that have CC problems. These companies give these kids CC's knowing they probably don't even have a job.

This brings me back again to my point made earlier. Why aren't parents teaching their kids the importance of money and telling them to stay away from CC's? Where has personal responsibility gone in this country? How smart does one need to be to know that if you're a part-time bartender you don't need a CC with a 10k credit limit?

I couldn't agree more.

WHen i was a young child in the 1970s and a teenager in the 1980s people used to actually be accountable. Imagine that.

now, we have people running around like chickens without heads telling me to BUY REAL ESTATE. Funny thing is that the guy who kept telling me to buy real estate a few years ago has about 1/1,000th the assets that i have. A broke guy with 70 credit cards was telling ME to buy real estate. What a joke.

Also, and get this, if you don't have a credit card you have no credit and no credit score. If you have always purchased everything with cash/debit and never once needed a credit card, you're fucked. Everyone wants to know your 'credit score'. Anything you do is based on this 'credit score'. There are people out there with a ton of cash in the bank, they never use credit cards and don't even have them, yet the broke people who have a few cards actually have more 'credit' than people with no credit card and cash in the bank.

Its so fucked up that its way over my head, i don't get it.

God, i miss the old days. Talk about the end of the innocence.

I remember when we would be able to sleep at night without locking our doors. Fans of sports teams would be able to run out on the field and celebrate with their team (see Chris Chambliss 1976) and now, its all 'secure'. There's lots of people making us feel 'secure'. Do you feel secure? Are you more 'secure' now than you were in 1970?

What has my America become? Where has my America gone?

What a shame.

 

[texansfan]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I couldn't agree more.

WHen i was a young child in the 1970s and a teenager in the 1980s people used to actually be accountable. Imagine that.

now, we have people running around like chickens without heads telling me to BUY REAL ESTATE. Funny thing is that the guy who kept telling me to buy real estate a few years ago has about 1/1,000th the assets that i have. A broke guy with 70 credit cards was telling ME to buy real estate. What a joke.

Also, and get this, if you don't have a credit card you have no credit and no credit score. If you have always purchased everything with cash/debit and never once needed a credit card, you're fucked. Everyone wants to know your 'credit score'. Anything you do is based on this 'credit score'. There are people out there with a ton of cash in the bank, they never use credit cards and don't even have them, yet the broke people who have a few cards actually have more 'credit' than people with no credit card and cash in the bank.

Its so fucked up that its way over my head, i don't get it.

God, i miss the old days. Talk about the end of the innocence.

I remember when we would be able to sleep at night without locking our doors. Fans of sports teams would be able to run out on the field and celebrate with their team (see Chris Chambliss 1976) and now, its all 'secure'. There's lots of people making us feel 'secure'. Do you feel secure? Are you more 'secure' now than you were in 1970?

What has my America become? Where has my America gone?

What a shame.

It sounds like we're about the same age. Life is totally different today than when we grew up. As kids, my friends and I would play outside all day and never worry abolut a thing. We had plenty of undeveloped areas to play in and around.

It just seemed as though life was simpler back then.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

It sounds like we're about the same age. Life is totally different today than when we grew up. As kids, my friends and I would play outside all day and never worry abolut a thing. We had plenty of undeveloped areas to play in and around.

It just seemed as though life was simpler back then.

You're right. I would go out in the morning and play till the sun went down. (then my mom would yell GET THE HELL HOME and i would run inside so i didnt get my ass beat). We played hard, got dirty, didnt worry about a thing. My parents never worried that we would be kidnapped or harmed in any way. Stuff like that just didnt happen back then. Well, maybe it did in isolated incidences, but not as widespread as it is today.

I remember one day as a kid i was hanging out on the corner by my house with my friends and this older guy (probably 50s) came by and asked if he could have some of our water. Our moms gave us a big pitcher of water or iced tea to have while playing. The guy offered us fireworks for a few sips of water. We thought that was an amazing deal because we were really into fireworks....you know the M 80s and shit like that. ANyway, we got a bunch of fireworks from this guy and we gave him a whole buncha water. He drank the water and i'll never forget this..........at the end of the drinking he said "ahhhh.....thanks guys, that was my breakfast"

I remember that moment like it happened yesterday.

 

[Quebb Diesel]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

loans suck donkey dick...fuck sallie mae

 

[Cee]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

When i was 20 i had 25k in credit and i made about 10k a year. I thought i was rich with all the plastic $$

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

loans suck donkey dick...fuck sallie mae

 

[MIKEH75]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

i just paid off two credit cards entirely today and canceled them.they offered me all kinds of shit to stay and i told them hell no and i'm glad to have them paid and cut up.i have one credit card left and thats all i need.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Congrats Mike!

 

[MIKEH75]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

I couldn't agree more.

WHen i was a young child in the 1970s and a teenager in the 1980s people used to actually be accountable. Imagine that.

now, we have people running around like chickens without heads telling me to BUY REAL ESTATE. Funny thing is that the guy who kept telling me to buy real estate a few years ago has about 1/1,000th the assets that i have. A broke guy with 70 credit cards was telling ME to buy real estate. What a joke.

Also, and get this, if you don't have a credit card you have no credit and no credit score. If you have always purchased everything with cash/debit and never once needed a credit card, you're fucked. Everyone wants to know your 'credit score'. Anything you do is based on this 'credit score'. There are people out there with a ton of cash in the bank, they never use credit cards and don't even have them, yet the broke people who have a few cards actually have more 'credit' than people with no credit card and cash in the bank.

Its so fucked up that its way over my head, i don't get it.

God, i miss the old days. Talk about the end of the innocence.

I remember when we would be able to sleep at night without locking our doors. Fans of sports teams would be able to run out on the field and celebrate with their team (see Chris Chambliss 1976) and now, its all 'secure'. There's lots of people making us feel 'secure'. Do you feel secure? Are you more 'secure' now than you were in 1970?

What has my America become? Where has my America gone?

What a shame.

Anything you do is based on this 'credit score'. There are people out there with a ton of cash in the bank, they never use credit cards and don't even have them, yet the broke people who have a few cards actually have more 'credit' than people with no credit card and cash in the bank.


exactly.i had about twenty thousand in cash saved up in 2003 and not one single credit card.not only could i not pay down to buy a house(all because of no credit or credit score) but i also couldn't get a credit card company to actually give me a credit card even though i had all that money.finally in 2006 i found a website where i could get a secured credit card by sending them 300 bucks and then after using that card for one month i had five or six offers all the sudden for cards and by that time i was broke.its almost backwards the way things work.

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Anything you do is based on this 'credit score'. There are people out there with a ton of cash in the bank, they never use credit cards and don't even have them, yet the broke people who have a few cards actually have more 'credit' than people with no credit card and cash in the bank.


exactly.i had about twenty thousand in cash saved up in 2003 and not one single credit card.not only could i not pay down to buy a house(all because of no credit or credit score) but i also couldn't get a credit card company to actually give me a credit card even though i had all that money.finally in 2006 i found a website where i could get a secured credit card by sending them 300 bucks and then after using that card for one month i had five or six offers all the sudden for cards and by that time i was broke.its almost backwards the way things work.

These people are sick and twisted. Things are set up by the govt that way. They want to fuck over people with cash in the bank because they dont want those people to be buying things with cash. They want those people to feel they need a credit card to function in society.

 

[FairWarning]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Speaking of fucked-up credit, why should a person get dinged when accessing their credit score? Bad enough when people don't really know what it consists of. Now you get people who want to see what their score is and they penalize you for it (after the free check).

 

[Flamingo kid]

Re: Are credit cards and loans the root of all evil?

Speaking of fucked-up credit, why should a person get dinged when accessing their credit score? Bad enough when people don't really know what it consists of. Now you get people who want to see what their score is and they penalize you for it (after the free check).

Its ridiculous.

I wanted to sign up for wireless internet and they wanted to do a credit check and i said no.

WTF do they need a credit check for? I'll be glad to pay a deposit if they think that i'm going to run to mexico with their precious little modem. Or, better yet, sell me the modem and tell me to pay a few months in advance, no need to check my credit score.