Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely Hero

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
I'll start off by saying that the news today about A-Rod was some of the toughest, non-family related, news I've ever had to take. I didn't like him as a person, but I thought he was the greatest player I've ever seen and I felt he was clean. I've dedicated more than, and hope to continue to dedicate even more, 16 years of my life to the game of baseball, and the news today was tough.

The only good I could take from it is that Frank Thomas is the only player, and many would say Griffey, that you KNOW was clean and great. Thomas spoke out against Roid's before anyone was even talking about them.

I hope you folks enjoyed Griffey and Thomas, because I'm not sure you'll see many like them in the future; at least not honestly like them.

Today was a very sad day for baseball and all of it's supporters. A-Rod could be an asshole, but he was 1 of the 3 greatest players of my lifetime that I thought was clean. Just amazing. Simply amazing.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Don't get so upset. The only players that the MLB 'wants' are the absolute best players. You don't hear about all the guys who used stuff. You don't hear about all the pitchers that A Rod faced who were also using PEDs.

These allegations are something that you don't need to worry about. This happened in 2003, before the MLB got tough on steroids.

Players were allowed to use this stuff in 2003 according to Major League Baseball.
 
Timely Hero

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Flamingo kid said:
Don't get so upset. The only players that the MLB 'wants' are the absolute best players. You don't hear about all the guys who used stuff. You don't hear about all the pitchers that A Rod faced who were also using PEDs.

These allegations are something that you don't need to worry about. This happened in 2003, before the MLB got tough on steroids.

Players were allowed to use this stuff in 2003 according to Major League Baseball.
Click to expand...

Fuck that, they weren't allowed to use shit. It was illegal.

In 2003? You mean, you think he stopped? You're fooling yourself. These guys scientists are WAY ahead of the testing policies. That's why it takes 6 years for this to come out. They are retesting everything, and a lot of hidden shit is surfacing. I don't want to see the best "chemically" enhanced players. Baseball is a sacred game, and it's numbers are sacred as well. Imagine how many guys are taking steroids to barely make it in the league, and guys who are cleaning are losing spots.

It's bullshit. How do I know that A-Rod was ever great without roid's. At least I knew Bonds was great before he started juicing. Fuck that and fuck this. I can't believe it.

Do you understand how hard a lot of the honestly players work since they were a kid? Do you understand that? Some are being held out because they won't cheat. That's fucking sick.

I hope A-Rod at least comes out, and just admits he was wrong. Doubt it though.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely Hitting said:
Fuck that, they weren't allowed to use shit. It was illegal.

In 2003? You mean, you think he stopped? You're fooling yourself. These guys scientists are WAY ahead of the testing policies. That's why it takes 6 years for this to come out. They are retesting everything, and a lot of hidden shit is surfacing. I don't want to see the best "chemically" enhanced players. Baseball is a sacred game, and it's numbers are sacred as well. Imagine how many guys are taking steroids to barely make it in the league, and guys who are cleaning are losing spots.

It's bullshit. How do I know that A-Rod was ever great without roid's. At least I knew Bonds was great before he started juicing. Fuck that and fuck this. I can't believe it.

Do you understand how hard a lot of the honestly players work since they were a kid? Do you understand that? Some are being held out because they won't cheat. That's fucking sick.

I hope A-Rod at least comes out, and just admits he was wrong. Doubt it though.
Click to expand...

Its all BS. Baseball has been sold to the American public as "baseball, apple pie and chevrolet". We have been taught to believe that the 'game' of baseball has something to do with growing up as an american. We have all tossed the ball around with our dads on a warm summer day. We have all played little league baseball. We all put baseball cards in spokes of bicycles (at least the bad players ended up there) and we all assumed that 'americas pasttime' was something that was just part of americana and it was ingrained in our culture.

Well, the problem is that the CONCEPT of baseball might be alive and well in our memories. The kind of baseball we played with our friends on the corner streets of our hometowns all across this great land has nothing to do with major league baseball. MLB is a company that uses the concept of baseball as their product. They are in business to make money, not to provide you an outlet for your childhood dreams and they are not there to cultivate heroes to your children. They have done an amazing job so far convincing the american public that they are the keepers of the flame. They are the ones who will make sure the memories you had as a child remain memories that you hold dear.

Baseball knew about all of this. Until Jose Canseco forgot how to hit the baseball and thought that baseball was blackballing him, he came out and created this firestorm and ruined many lives. Baseball, the big hypocrites that they are, pretended they knew nothing about it. They are now trying to spin this to show the american public that they Do care if their players are using drugs when in reality, they don't care, they are just trying to convince you they DO care.

The baseball that you grew up as a kid is a concept. The MLB, inc is a company trying to make as much money as they can ANYWAY they can. Don't confuse the two.

Also, people don't really care about cheating. The media is forcing this cheating stuff down our throats and forcing us to care. If the media said nothing (like they did in the 50s, you never heard any bad stuff that players did away from the field, the media protected them) than no one would care. Fans wouldn't be picketing outside stadiums demanding that players who are hitting 500 foot homeruns get weaker so they can only hit 300ft homeruns.

Personally, my front row tickets at yankee stadium are worth MORE if players are on the juice. The ball goes farther which means my entertainment dollar is better spent.

If you go to a broadway show or a show in Vegas and the athletes and performers are on the juice, do you demand a refund? of course not. The feats of strength are what you are paying to see. You are paying to see that actor be able to lift that other actor high over his head. I'm not accusing anyone in broadway shows or vegas shows of using any kind of drugs, but if they were using stuff to get stronger, you wouldnt' know about it and you wouldn't care. All you would care about is if the show was worth the money you spent for a ticket.

Fans might say they care because its politically correct to do so. You don't want to seem insensitive and say that you want athletes to use drugs, but the reality is that your entertainment dollar is more well spent if these players bulk up and get bigger faster and stronger.

I guess, in a perfect world, it would be great if no one cheated in big business. It would be wonderful if we could compare players from yesteryear to players of today and have our little debates on who was better. But, lets face it, its a dog eat dog world out there and the MLB company is only in this to make money, they really aren't in this to make sure that your childhood dreams mean something and that your kids childhood memories are real ones. They could care less.
 
Timely Hero

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Not an excuse. They are responsible for this, and that's not an excuse. End of story. I don't care what it says.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely Hitting said:
Not an excuse. They are responsible for this, and that's not an excuse. End of story. I don't care what it says.
Click to expand...

The ball goes farther on juice. Do you want to pay 200 bucks to see 98 lb weaklings hit ground balls in the infield?

Or, are you paying 200 bucks to see King Kong hit one into the upper deck?
 
Timely Hero

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Flamingo kid said:
The ball goes farther on juice. Do you want to pay 200 bucks to see 98 lb weaklings hit ground balls in the infield?

Or, are you paying 200 bucks to see King Kong hit one into the upper deck?
Click to expand...

I'm the wrong guy to ask that because I want to watch "GOOD" baseball played. Hit-and-run's, bunts, hitting the ball to the right side to advance the runner, 2 out hits/RBI's. Home Runs are exciting, but they're just a part of the game.

I told my buddy today at work, and I'll say the same thing now; Some people will never understand this, and it's not a knock on you. I spent 16 years of my life, playing baseball 10 hours on the weekends, playing over 100 games a summer, and taking lessons in-between school projects. I worked harder than any kid worked, outside of other athletes, to achieve there goal and when I reached college, I simply realized I wasn't good enough. To see someone, SO TALENTED AND SO GOOD (regardless of 'roid's), cheat that would have been a HOF'er, probably, anyway is disgusting. How can you cheat yourself, and the game? I have sympathy for those that need them to be in the league, because I'd so whatever I could to earn a paycheck playing baseball. Don't get me wrong, I'd be a scum bag and so are they because they cheat others of the rightfulness to play the game, but it's a big slap in the face to baseball, and it's followers, for you to be that talented and still cheat. Just disgusting. Sickening, really.
 
C

Cee

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

timely i need to recruit some guys for softball, u in?
 
R

rjt721

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

You don't KNOW Thomas and Griff are clean. Stop being so gullible.
 
Timely Hero

Timely Hero

Jacoby Blows
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

rjt721 said:
You don't KNOW Thomas and Griff are clean. Stop being so gullible.
Click to expand...

Frank Thomas, in 1994, spoke out against steroids because he felt his numbers were being tainted. He was so selfish, that it helped him for once. They ignored him because they had bigger issues on his hands.

In 2000, he lost out on a MVP to Giambi, who later admitted taking steroids that year, and when asked about it after the news was broken he said he doesn't need a trophy to know that he's the MVP. He said he's always done it the right way.

He asked for testing in 1994! That was almost 10 years before anyone else asked for anything. He was shot down, and told it wasn't an important topic. Frank Thomas didn't become HUGE when he came into the league. Frank Thomas has steady numbers for years, barring injuries, and he was the first to speak out.

Thomas was clean.
 
Jagermeister

Jagermeister

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

rjt721 said:
You don't KNOW Thomas and Griff are clean. Stop being so gullible.
Click to expand...

I KNOW Thomas is clean. The union shut him up. He volunteered to take a test right away because he had nothing to hide. He has been very vocal on this issue.
 
Flamingo kid

Flamingo kid

Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely Hitting said:
I'm the wrong guy to ask that because I want to watch "GOOD" baseball played. Hit-and-run's, bunts, hitting the ball to the right side to advance the runner, 2 out hits/RBI's. Home Runs are exciting, but they're just a part of the game.

I told my buddy today at work, and I'll say the same thing now; Some people will never understand this, and it's not a knock on you. I spent 16 years of my life, playing baseball 10 hours on the weekends, playing over 100 games a summer, and taking lessons in-between school projects. I worked harder than any kid worked, outside of other athletes, to achieve there goal and when I reached college, I simply realized I wasn't good enough. To see someone, SO TALENTED AND SO GOOD (regardless of 'roid's), cheat that would have been a HOF'er, probably, anyway is disgusting. How can you cheat yourself, and the game? I have sympathy for those that need them to be in the league, because I'd so whatever I could to earn a paycheck playing baseball. Don't get me wrong, I'd be a scum bag and so are they because they cheat others of the rightfulness to play the game, but it's a big slap in the face to baseball, and it's followers, for you to be that talented and still cheat. Just disgusting. Sickening, really.
Click to expand...


I see your point and feel your pain.

the only thing i can think of to say to you is that if the entire league is flooded with PEDs, what do you do if you are an honest guy and you hear that everyone else is using? Do you just get run out of the league, or do you use to 'keep up with the joneses'?

Also, if you hear that there's really no penalty for doing this stuff, why not do it? If you are the guy sitting at your stool in the locker room and your teammate tells you , "dog, everyone is doing it, MLB isn't punishing anyone, if you don't do it, you won't be competitive and you'll be out of the league working at Vons bagging groceries"

Its a tough call. I bet some guys really struggled with the decision to do this. But, if everyone else is doing it, you gotta do it to keep up, no?
 
C

Cee

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely, people do roids in softball and 99.9% are unpaid. Imagine what they do in the majors where they earn their living off bases
 
Jagermeister

Jagermeister

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Flamingo kid said:
I see your point and feel your pain.

the only thing i can think of to say to you is that if the entire league is flooded with PEDs, what do you do if you are an honest guy and you hear that everyone else is using? Do you just get run out of the league, or do you use to 'keep up with the joneses'?

Also, if you hear that there's really no penalty for doing this stuff, why not do it? If you are the guy sitting at your stool in the locker room and your teammate tells you , "dog, everyone is doing it, MLB isn't punishing anyone, if you don't do it, you won't be competitive and you'll be out of the league working at Vons bagging groceries"

Its a tough call. I bet some guys really struggled with the decision to do this. But, if everyone else is doing it, you gotta do it to keep up, no?
Click to expand...

Why should someone have to put their LIFE on the line to make this decision? Why does the union stick their head in the sand over this issue?

Follow the money.
 
Jagermeister

Jagermeister

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2007/06/griffey-moves-p.html

The 39-year-old Thomas shook his head in amazement when he thought about joining the likes of Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays and Harmon Killebrew in the 500 club."It's an unbelievable class of talent. I saw a lot of them play. I have the utmost respect, and I'm very happy to be here because it takes a long time to hit 500 home runs and I think I've paid my dues long enough through numerous injuries..
He doesn't care that his milestone came in an era when skepticism surrounds some of the game's most prolific home run hitters."This means a lot to me because I did it the right way and I've busted my butt since college. I always worked hard in that weight room to be strong. I'm a big guy and I've been blessed with this talent," he said.
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely Hitting............ I respect your opinion more than 99.5% of the posters here at EOG. However.... You are out of line here. The A Rod rumors are just that.... RUMORS. Lets not bash Arod until we here the full story. And yes I 100% agree that Big Hurt and Griffey were clean
 
Doc Mercer

Doc Mercer

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

In reality ... who cares

3 decades ago it was the pitchers cheating at every possible angle

anyone that thinks Pujols aint shooting up is on some of that shit that Munchkin Man smokes when he posts his "War and Peac" length stories

Seems the only clean sport anymore with the way its run and the integrity
of the players is the PGA Tour
 
M

Munchkin Man

EOG Dedicated
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Greetings:

For years, the Munchkin Man has been arguing, and probably from a minority point of view, that Roger Maris should be inducted in the Hall Of Fame.

As the Munchkin Man sees it, Roger Maris was the last steroid free single-season home run champion.

Although he only had a handful of good seasons, his record setting 61 home runs in the year of 1961 alone should qualify him for the Hall Of Fame.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man
 
Doc Mercer

Doc Mercer

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

I can guarantee ya that Aaron didnt juice and Bill Melton led the AL in home
runs with 33 in 71 and the odds of him juicing are about the same as
Kelvin Sampson taking over the Georgia or Alabama openings
 
F

fivedoorsdown

EOG Dedicated
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

i think frank and ken did it too. was just smart enough not to get caught.

seriously look at there brittle carrers. number one sign
 
T

tripp

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

I guess I'm alone in not giving a shit about who uses steroids. My guess is 50% of them do it, maybe more, and they should make it legal.

A-Rod still the greatest ever by the time he retires, followed by Barry Bonds.
 
Jagermeister

Jagermeister

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Doc Mercer said:
I can guarantee ya that Aaron didnt juice and Bill Melton led the AL in home
runs with 33 in 71 and the odds of him juicing are about the same as
Kelvin Sampson taking over the Georgia or Alabama openings
Click to expand...

Safe bet Cecil Fielder, Thome, Billy Williams, Foster, Kingman, Murphy, Dawson, Schmidt, Stargell, George Scott dodn't take them either.
 
Doc Mercer

Doc Mercer

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Jager:

they are testing on the Pga tour to try and catch em for Beta Blockers
 
GreenDoberman

GreenDoberman

2
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

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</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_1945008 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid"> Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...
<HR style="COLOR: #2b295e" SIZE=1>Fred McGriff, clean also.
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #2b295e 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #2b295e 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #2b295e 1px solid"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
​


Beat me to it Jager. McGriff for the Hall. Guy didn't even lift weights for most of his career.
 
Doc Mercer

Doc Mercer

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

do ya think Sandberg did?

I remember he led the NL in home runs one season ....
 
Brewers in 7

Brewers in 7

EOG Dedicated
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Jagermeister said:
Safe bet Cecil Fielder, Thome, Billy Williams, Foster, Kingman, Murphy, Dawson, Schmidt, Stargell, George Scott dodn't take them either.
Click to expand...


add juan pierre and david eckstein to that list too
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

tripp said:
I guess I'm alone in not giving a shit about who uses steroids. My guess is 50% of them do it, maybe more, and they should make it legal.

A-Rod still the greatest ever by the time he retires, followed by Barry Bonds.
Click to expand...


Bonds > A Rod......
 
5

5 star bomb

EOG Master
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Big Hurt did NOT use steroids... He was always a big dude
 
NoNewbieca

NoNewbieca

EOG Dedicated
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

The real problem FK that I see about this drug usage during this post-lockout era of baseball is how you and I and everyone else complies all these lists of the "greatest players ever and all time". We compare statistics and records from the past and compare into today's game. All that history gets washed away of they are on the juice. As the poster to Barry Bonds said "Babe Ruth did it on beer and hot dogs...how about you?" The over inflated numbers makes those greats of the past less, when in fact they weren't. Hank Aaron STILL should be the Home Run king. Maris should still hold the HR record. It doesn't matter if pitchers are on the juice too - it doesn't take away the fact that it is the enhanced human body that hits the ball out of the park. If you wish to keep the integrity and history in the game, you have to asterisk all of these modern day records. Or have the player come forward and do a public test to show once the record is done that he is clean. The Olympics does it that way. They test every athlete who wins a gold. Michael Phelps passed those tests, and so did the sprinter Bolt. McGwire is obviously a user. Clemens too. I think that this whole era in baseball will be looked at with disdain as we go into the future, and see the greats to come compete clean like they did when the records were made.
 
B

betedge

EOG Member
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Timely Hitting said:
Fuck that, they weren't allowed to use shit. It was illegal.

In 2003? You mean, you think he stopped? You're fooling yourself. These guys scientists are WAY ahead of the testing policies. That's why it takes 6 years for this to come out. They are retesting everything, and a lot of hidden shit is surfacing. I don't want to see the best "chemically" enhanced players. Baseball is a sacred game, and it's numbers are sacred as well. Imagine how many guys are taking steroids to barely make it in the league, and guys who are cleaning are losing spots.

It's bullshit. How do I know that A-Rod was ever great without roid's. At least I knew Bonds was great before he started juicing. Fuck that and fuck this. I can't believe it.

Do you understand how hard a lot of the honestly players work since they were a kid? Do you understand that? Some are being held out because they won't cheat. That's fucking sick.

I hope A-Rod at least comes out, and just admits he was wrong. Doubt it though.
Click to expand...
agreed. i gave up on bases 5 yrs ago myself and i played the game my whole life. these are not real ballplayers you are watching anymore. so sad but true.....


edge
 
NoNewbieca

NoNewbieca

EOG Dedicated
Re: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey should be put in the HOF tomorrow...

Credit to A-Rod for coming clean (hard not to when you are caught red-handed) but he does a better job than Clemens and McGwire who could only think about this negatively impacting their chances at the HOF. Sad that people think LESS of them both for trying to lie and play dumb on their way through it. Did we not learn anything from Richard Nixon?!? Taking steriods Barry, Mark and Roger was NOT illegal at the time you did it in baseball. Lying to a Grand Jury about it IS.
 
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