Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
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gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
not a lock at all, only 214 wins and a shitty relationship w/the press to boot
not a lock at all, only 214 wins and a shitty relationship w/the press to boot
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
216 Wins, 3 Championships (2 of which he was the main reason it happened), over 3000K's, and the lowest ERA in playoff history with a minimum 15 starts:
No doubt. Not even a debate.
216 Wins, 3 Championships (2 of which he was the main reason it happened), over 3000K's, and the lowest ERA in playoff history with a minimum 15 starts:
No doubt. Not even a debate.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Wow, not even a near comparison to me. Wells, while being a very solid and elite pitcher for 4 years or so and a durable guy (for his fatbody) who made a good 4th/5th starter later in his career, was nowhere near the force Schilling was at his highest points.
Wow, not even a near comparison to me. Wells, while being a very solid and elite pitcher for 4 years or so and a durable guy (for his fatbody) who made a good 4th/5th starter later in his career, was nowhere near the force Schilling was at his highest points.
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Wells allready his HOF jersey ....
didn't he have some jersey of the Babe's or something like that?
Wells allready his HOF jersey ....
didn't he have some jersey of the Babe's or something like that?
gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
bert bly and jim kaat are deserving if schills is deserving but bly and kaat not in
peep that
bert bly and jim kaat are deserving if schills is deserving but bly and kaat not in
peep that
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Bly is definitely deserving, so is Schilling.
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Schilling will get in ....
the Media focuses on his "big game" performances
I've seen it before
Troy Aikman is a perfect example and Ortiz is in the same boat as
Schilling
The Media can make or break the voting
Schilling will get in ....
the Media focuses on his "big game" performances
I've seen it before
Troy Aikman is a perfect example and Ortiz is in the same boat as
Schilling
The Media can make or break the voting
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Yes.... true. But Schilling was an outstanding and dominant pitcher as well outside of the playoffs. Tons of K's, 216 Wins, and for a 5-6 year gap, was if not the #1 pitcher in the game, the #2 (Pedro Martinez the other) ...
I hate him too. But, just because he speaks his mind and is annoying, doesnt take away from his place as one of the all time greats on the hill.
Yes.... true. But Schilling was an outstanding and dominant pitcher as well outside of the playoffs. Tons of K's, 216 Wins, and for a 5-6 year gap, was if not the #1 pitcher in the game, the #2 (Pedro Martinez the other) ...
I hate him too. But, just because he speaks his mind and is annoying, doesnt take away from his place as one of the all time greats on the hill.
Doug
2
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
hat, I think ?
Schilling is a bit low on wins, I'm sure Wells won more like 250...should have been 300+....if he wasn't using John Daly's personal trainers.
Both pitched in the same era.
hat, I think ?
Schilling is a bit low on wins, I'm sure Wells won more like 250...should have been 300+....if he wasn't using John Daly's personal trainers.
Both pitched in the same era.
Seymour
EOG Dedicated
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Doug:
But Wells was in "much better shape" than Schilling
Doug:
But Wells was in "much better shape" than Schilling
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Don't think he's a lock. But he should be.
Career regular season winning percentage a shade under .600, over 3,000 strikeouts and the best postseason record of any pitcher with a minimum of 10 decisions. 3 championships, including co-MVP of the World Series in 2001. He was as responsible as anyone for Boston's '04 championship, ending an 86-year drought in the process. And the bloody sock is the lasting image from that season. Guy was arguably the best big game pitcher of his generation, and that more than compensates for the lack of wins in regular season play.
Don't think he's a lock. But he should be.
Career regular season winning percentage a shade under .600, over 3,000 strikeouts and the best postseason record of any pitcher with a minimum of 10 decisions. 3 championships, including co-MVP of the World Series in 2001. He was as responsible as anyone for Boston's '04 championship, ending an 86-year drought in the process. And the bloody sock is the lasting image from that season. Guy was arguably the best big game pitcher of his generation, and that more than compensates for the lack of wins in regular season play.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Actually MLB changing the rules was the reason the Sox won in 2004. Without a wildcard, they don't win. MLB needed to change the rules for them to break that drought. They needed to make it easier to win the WS than it had been in the past. They made it easier and Boston got the candy.
Actually MLB changing the rules was the reason the Sox won in 2004. Without a wildcard, they don't win. MLB needed to change the rules for them to break that drought. They needed to make it easier to win the WS than it had been in the past. They made it easier and Boston got the candy.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Remind me again who the BoSox beat in the ALCS that season. Thanks in advance.
Still so bitter? :LMAO
Remind me again who the BoSox beat in the ALCS that season. Thanks in advance.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
No, not bitter, never have been bitter. Just stating the facts. Nothing i said was factually incorrect. You seem to be the sore winner. How's it feel to be a sore winner? How's it feel to be the most bitter city in America despite incredible sports success in this decade?
No, not bitter, never have been bitter. Just stating the facts. Nothing i said was factually incorrect. You seem to be the sore winner. How's it feel to be a sore winner? How's it feel to be the most bitter city in America despite incredible sports success in this decade?
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Yes, bringing up something that has nothing to do with Schilling's HOF candidacy wouldn't constitute bitterness. And mentioning the wild card issue, while conveniently failing to point out how that rule benefited your beloved Yanks in 2007, clearly demonstrates you're not bitter. You're obsessed with all things Boston, chiming in the mere second one of their sports teams are brought up. But I understand. Going on 10 years without a World Series title can do that to you. I feel your pain, Flamingo Kid. I feel your pain.
Yes, bringing up something that has nothing to do with Schilling's HOF candidacy wouldn't constitute bitterness. And mentioning the wild card issue, while conveniently failing to point out how that rule benefited your beloved Yanks in 2007, clearly demonstrates you're not bitter. You're obsessed with all things Boston, chiming in the mere second one of their sports teams are brought up. But I understand. Going on 10 years without a World Series title can do that to you. I feel your pain, Flamingo Kid. I feel your pain.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Doug
2
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Many pitchers say they are better at a higher weight... as long as they still have a form of flexibility.. the mechanics are set in stone already for the Wells-esque player. I dont know if I agree, but that is what many claim.
:LMAO:LMAO:LMAO
Many pitchers say they are better at a higher weight... as long as they still have a form of flexibility.. the mechanics are set in stone already for the Wells-esque player. I dont know if I agree, but that is what many claim.
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
22 seasons, and he wins 216 games? That's less then 10 per year. Yes he was hurt for a lot of his career, but part of being in the Hall of Fame in baseball is longevity. I personally don't think an above average regular season pitcher should get in for 40 games in the playoffs. That's just my opinion. Top 10 of the Cy young 4 times only.
In reality he's only had 3 great seasons in his career, you could maybe argue 4, and that's not enough to get in the Hall of Fame to me. If Bert Blylevin isn't in the Hall of Fame, there's no chance Schilling should be. 19 games shouldn't get an above average pitcher into the Hall of Fame.
22 seasons, and he wins 216 games? That's less then 10 per year. Yes he was hurt for a lot of his career, but part of being in the Hall of Fame in baseball is longevity. I personally don't think an above average regular season pitcher should get in for 40 games in the playoffs. That's just my opinion. Top 10 of the Cy young 4 times only.
In reality he's only had 3 great seasons in his career, you could maybe argue 4, and that's not enough to get in the Hall of Fame to me. If Bert Blylevin isn't in the Hall of Fame, there's no chance Schilling should be. 19 games shouldn't get an above average pitcher into the Hall of Fame.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
I agree to an extent. Longevity is a big part of it, but 216 wins is pretty damn good by today's standards... especially dominating in the Gladiator Roid Era... But I also think the intensity of domination is or should be a key factor. He was basically untouchable for a good period of time; invincible. Kind of like the run Pedro had.. Pedro's lifetime stats arent freakish either, but his run of dominance was extraordinary and exceptions should be made for authentic brilliance, even if unsustained for 20+ years..
I agree to an extent. Longevity is a big part of it, but 216 wins is pretty damn good by today's standards... especially dominating in the Gladiator Roid Era... But I also think the intensity of domination is or should be a key factor. He was basically untouchable for a good period of time; invincible. Kind of like the run Pedro had.. Pedro's lifetime stats arent freakish either, but his run of dominance was extraordinary and exceptions should be made for authentic brilliance, even if unsustained for 20+ years..
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Schilling can't even sniff Pedro's jock. Schilling NEVER dominated like Pedro, very few ever have. Pedro has won 69% of his games, Schilling 60%, Pedro's career ERA is 2.91 and Schilling's is 3.5. Pedro pitched in the AL for a lot more of his career too. Pedro is top 5 for the Cy Young 7 times. That's amazing. He's won it three times too. Schilling has never won it.
When Schilling was good his ERA was 2.9, when Pedro was great it was below two and around 2.2.
Schilling can't even sniff Pedro's jock. Schilling NEVER dominated like Pedro, very few ever have. Pedro has won 69% of his games, Schilling 60%, Pedro's career ERA is 2.91 and Schilling's is 3.5. Pedro pitched in the AL for a lot more of his career too. Pedro is top 5 for the Cy Young 7 times. That's amazing. He's won it three times too. Schilling has never won it.
When Schilling was good his ERA was 2.9, when Pedro was great it was below two and around 2.2.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
That is incorrect. Schilling is not outclassed by Pedro. He is a small notch below him, and that alone means he is a monster. Schilling's persona may have contributed to the no-CY's as well. Schilling had 3 CY Young worthy seasons. Pedro was better, but it wasnt as far a gap as you insinuate. And besides, no one was ever better in baseball history than Pedro during his magic ride years. I dont remember ever saying Schilling was better than Pedro anyway. I actually argued for the accomplishments of Pedro's amazing run rather than against it.
That is incorrect. Schilling is not outclassed by Pedro. He is a small notch below him, and that alone means he is a monster. Schilling's persona may have contributed to the no-CY's as well. Schilling had 3 CY Young worthy seasons. Pedro was better, but it wasnt as far a gap as you insinuate. And besides, no one was ever better in baseball history than Pedro during his magic ride years. I dont remember ever saying Schilling was better than Pedro anyway. I actually argued for the accomplishments of Pedro's amazing run rather than against it.
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Schilling was great for 3 years, and he never SHOULD have won the Cy Young. The three years he was close, he was outclassed greatly. You need to go look at the numbers, seriously. You'd be shocked.
Randy Johnson was MUCH better than Schilling the two years he beat him. He had .5 lower ERA, 100 more strike outs and more wins with fewer losses. Schilling was very good for three years, every other year he's just been there. He's NEVER EVER dominated like Pedro, and he's never been close.
Schilling was great for 3 years, and he never SHOULD have won the Cy Young. The three years he was close, he was outclassed greatly. You need to go look at the numbers, seriously. You'd be shocked.
Randy Johnson was MUCH better than Schilling the two years he beat him. He had .5 lower ERA, 100 more strike outs and more wins with fewer losses. Schilling was very good for three years, every other year he's just been there. He's NEVER EVER dominated like Pedro, and he's never been close.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Well here are two stats.... and you are a longevity guy. Schilling has 216 wins, Pedro has 214, Schilling has 3116 K's, Pedro has 3117 K's... those match up pretty similar dont they?
Pedro's ERA is better by over half a run, and Pedro is better.
Again, you seem to want to argue a point that I never tried to debate. I actually put the two into a relatable category... with the point being no one would seriously consider EVER leaving Pedro off the first ballot of the Hall, and yet many think Schilling needs help. So, youve in effect got arguably the best pitcher off all time with like numbers in many respects to Schilling. Plus, Schilling bulled through in the clutch like no other in the history in the game. Schilling spent all of his 20's and early 30's on bad to mediocre Philly teams and Martinez spent from age 26 to present on dominant teams in Boston and later in New York...
Well here are two stats.... and you are a longevity guy. Schilling has 216 wins, Pedro has 214, Schilling has 3116 K's, Pedro has 3117 K's... those match up pretty similar dont they?
Pedro's ERA is better by over half a run, and Pedro is better.
Again, you seem to want to argue a point that I never tried to debate. I actually put the two into a relatable category... with the point being no one would seriously consider EVER leaving Pedro off the first ballot of the Hall, and yet many think Schilling needs help. So, youve in effect got arguably the best pitcher off all time with like numbers in many respects to Schilling. Plus, Schilling bulled through in the clutch like no other in the history in the game. Schilling spent all of his 20's and early 30's on bad to mediocre Philly teams and Martinez spent from age 26 to present on dominant teams in Boston and later in New York...
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
Read the thread carefully, then respond more thoughtfully please. Thank you.
Read the thread carefully, then respond more thoughtfully please. Thank you.
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
It took Schilling 500 more innings to attain that many wins and Strike Outs. You can't say that Pedro is a first ballot and Schilling has the same amount of wins and K's as a reason he gets in. Pedro got his Wins and K's much differently, so the stats don't match up.
19 games that you pitch great in the post season shouldn't get you in. If Bert Blylevin isn't in the Hall of Fame, then there's no chance Schilling should be.
It took Schilling 500 more innings to attain that many wins and Strike Outs. You can't say that Pedro is a first ballot and Schilling has the same amount of wins and K's as a reason he gets in. Pedro got his Wins and K's much differently, so the stats don't match up.
19 games that you pitch great in the post season shouldn't get you in. If Bert Blylevin isn't in the Hall of Fame, then there's no chance Schilling should be.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
My original post was Schilling had 3 obvious CY Young years. (although someone might have been better that given year)
Age 34
22-6 256 Innings Pitched, 293/39 K to BB ratio, 2.98 ERA, 1.07 WHIP... a Cy Young esque season (2nd in CY Young to Johnson's Freak Season)
Age 35
23-7 259 IP, 316/33 K:BB, 3.23 ERA .97 WHIP
Cy Young type season no? (another 2nd to Johnson's Freakout)
Age 37 Off the injury at Age 36 that crippled his output
21-6 226 IP, 203/35 K:BB, 3.25 ERA, 1.06 WHIP
Cy Young esqe season (another 2nd to another surefire Hall of Famer with any health at all, Johan Santana)
These are sick and dominant seasons. Dominant. Look at that K to BB Ratio and WHIP.
Throw in the World Series and playoff statistics on top of this run, and how does anyone keep him out?
My original post was Schilling had 3 obvious CY Young years. (although someone might have been better that given year)
Age 34
22-6 256 Innings Pitched, 293/39 K to BB ratio, 2.98 ERA, 1.07 WHIP... a Cy Young esque season (2nd in CY Young to Johnson's Freak Season)
Age 35
23-7 259 IP, 316/33 K:BB, 3.23 ERA .97 WHIP
Cy Young type season no? (another 2nd to Johnson's Freakout)
Age 37 Off the injury at Age 36 that crippled his output
21-6 226 IP, 203/35 K:BB, 3.25 ERA, 1.06 WHIP
Cy Young esqe season (another 2nd to another surefire Hall of Famer with any health at all, Johan Santana)
These are sick and dominant seasons. Dominant. Look at that K to BB Ratio and WHIP.
Throw in the World Series and playoff statistics on top of this run, and how does anyone keep him out?
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
None of this even includes his post season stats.
well then read K's to BB ratio and WHIP then. The guy is a HOF'er.
None of this even includes his post season stats.
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
So we let people in for three great seasons and a good post season history? This is the MLB Hall of Fame. The toughest Hall of Fame to get into, and no one gets in because of THREE years.
So we let people in for three great seasons and a good post season history? This is the MLB Hall of Fame. The toughest Hall of Fame to get into, and no one gets in because of THREE years.
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
With OUT his post season success there is ZERO chance people are talking about him getting in the Hall of Fame. That's a fact.
With OUT his post season success there is ZERO chance people are talking about him getting in the Hall of Fame. That's a fact.
Re: Schilling is a lock for the HOF right?
you act as if he sucked the rest of his career ....he had two outstanding years in Philly with lower end win numbers 17 and 15 mostly because his teams sucked. those years he had over 300 k's both years and WHIP's sitting around 1.
he had multiple health run-ins, and his post season efforts severly hurt his 2003 and 2005 seasons and perhaps beyond that... just read the performance in 2001 2002 and 2004 and tell me he didnt have identical numbers coming in 2003 with health.. and 2005 for that matter.. he pitched hurt for the playoffs and won a World Series, and pitched brilliantly in two straight postseasons for Zona, the next year hurt.
Schilling has 4 top 4 CY Young Finishes, including 3 2nds.
Also, you need to reread the thread as well. I said Bly belonged in about 10 hours ago. Thanks.
you act as if he sucked the rest of his career ....he had two outstanding years in Philly with lower end win numbers 17 and 15 mostly because his teams sucked. those years he had over 300 k's both years and WHIP's sitting around 1.
he had multiple health run-ins, and his post season efforts severly hurt his 2003 and 2005 seasons and perhaps beyond that... just read the performance in 2001 2002 and 2004 and tell me he didnt have identical numbers coming in 2003 with health.. and 2005 for that matter.. he pitched hurt for the playoffs and won a World Series, and pitched brilliantly in two straight postseasons for Zona, the next year hurt.
Schilling has 4 top 4 CY Young Finishes, including 3 2nds.
Also, you need to reread the thread as well. I said Bly belonged in about 10 hours ago. Thanks.