Ron Paul with the Young Turks

[brucefan]

Ron Paul with the Young Turks

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --><!-- message -->2 great videos to better understand how we got here, and why we are going in the wrong direction

Dr Paul again showing that if you really wanted a candidate who could have reached across the isle and be taken seriously by both sides, he should have been our President

Very interesting discussion trying educate these liberals on why deregulation was not the cause of our problems

Peter touches on this topic as well on the Obama network

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[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Bruce i am a huge Ron Paul fan and the thing that pisses me off the most is the way Fox News and Hannity destroyed him with the kook label. Why in the hell does Paul even go on that network with the way they took him down. He should not give them phony polesmokers the time of day!!

 

[brucefan]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Your right 100% RIGHT , but now they cant get enough of him since the number one terrorist turned out to be not someone from overseas, but someone we just elected potus

The damage Obama is doing to our economy will take decades for us to recover from

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I'll give obama a chance but it seems like he is using the same plan that bush used. Everything that Ron Paul was saying on the campaign trail is coming true and Fox News was calling him a kook and everything else they could, but now they want him on all the time.

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Your right 100% RIGHT , but now they cant get enough of him since the number one terrorist turned out to be not someone from overseas, but someone we just elected potus

 

[brucefan]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I'll give obama a chance but it seems like he is using the same plan that bush used. Everything that Ron Paul was saying on the campaign trail is coming true and Fox News was calling him a kook and everything else they could, but now they want him on all the time.

Give him a chance about what?

You see his fiscal agenda. Its a massive explosion of big government , a power grab, and a radical change from capitalism to Socialism.

Fiscally, he couldnt be further away from Dr Paul?????

If you are a Ron Paul Fan, we dont have time to give him a chance, just connect the dots and join the fight to take our Country back

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Give him a chance about what?

You see his fiscal agenda. Its a massive explosion of big government , a power grab, and a radical change from capitalism to Socialism.

Fiscally, he couldnt be further away from Dr Paul?????

If you are a Ron Paul Fan, we dont have time to give him a chance, just connect the dots

Actually it was Bush who told the 9 largest banks that they had to take the bailout money whether they wanted it or not.The size of government almost doubled under Bush, he was the one with the prescription drug plan that socialized medicine. I was against all this crap then just like i don't like it now.
I guess after 8 years you get numb to it but i honestly don't see the socialism tag other than the fact it is just more fear that the GOP is selling.

Honestly Bruce other than fear what does the GOP have to offer anymore?

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Full disclosure: Count me in as one of the loudest Ron Paul bashers during the Republican primaries.

Mainly because he is very naive when it comes to evil and wouldn't shut up about the war during the campaign.

If Paul had emphasized his macro economic values and de-emphasized his foreign policy, he probably would have gained a lot more traction with conservatives. Instead, he pandered to the "anti-war" vote.

All that said, I don't think he could ever win the nomination because he looks and sounds like a Republican Dennis Kucinich.

Bottom line: on domestic issues, Ron Paul is awesome! :thumbsup

 

[brucefan]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Actually it was Bush who told the 9 largest banks that they had to take the bailout money whether they wanted it or not.The size of government almost doubled under Bush, he was the one with the prescription drug plan that socialized medicine. I was against all this crap then just like i don't like it now.
I guess after 8 years you get numb to it but i honestly don't see the socialism tag other than the fact it is just more fear that the GOP is selling.

Honestly Bruce other than fear what does the GOP have to offer anymore?

You have been reading too many posts by Doc. Did I mention Bush in my last post???

I was against all that crap too ( bailouts, prescription drugs, etc) but what the hell does that have to do with anything right now?

This is not a political game here, we are way beyond that now

Lets talk about this president please.

More bailouts, constant lies, a crapulis spending bills, budgets that will destroy our currency and bring on hyperinflation, cap trade that cripple business and is nothing but a scam to redistribute wealth, card check to take away the right to a secret ballot, I could go on all night

I am just confused about you be a Ron Paul supporter and then wanting to give Obama a chance?

BIG GOVERNMENT = LESS FREEDOM


This is Bush on steroids

Has Ron Paul said anything positive about anything Obama has done so far??????????

If so, post it!

You should join this site and get involved in the discussion

We need your help!

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Joe thats the whole problem. 8 years under Bush was all about the war on terror.The only thing he had to sell was fear and the sheep bought it, then when someone like Paul comes around using CIA people that know what they are talking about, the GOP could not handle the truth.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Bruce my whole reference to bush is that it's the same old stuff basically.I don't want to see this country fail and if Obamas plan fails then so do we.I will check that site out but until another plan is out there or their is an alternative then we are stuck and we can't hold our breath waiting for the GOP.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I checked that site out and it looks real good. That bill hr1207 really hit's home since i have been against the Fed for a long time.When i get more time i will read more of it.

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Joe thats the whole problem. 8 years under Bush was all about the war on terror.

Right.

Because during the 90s al-Qaida formally declared war but President Clinton couldn't be bothered and instead shuffled the matter over to the Justice Dept. Clinton was preoccupied with other priorities -- like molesting chubby interns in the Oval Office.

We had some catching up to do.

The only thing he had to sell was fear and the sheep bought it, then when someone like Paul comes around using CIA people that know what they are talking about, the GOP could not handle the truth.

Uh huh.

You're talking about Michael Scheuer, right? Imperial Hubris?

I think the title says it all. For every "blame America" Scheuer, I could dig up 100 CIA officers with a different take.

Bottom line: if you're "anti-war" you'll look for reasons to bolster your agenda and drown out counter arguments.

I'm not "anti-war" or pro-war, I'm agnostic on war, but absolutely ANTI-EVIL.

I want a president to preemptively kill people who are openly (or secretly) plotting to kill Americans -- the only sane, rational foreign policy.

You think America is the author of anti-American sentiment; I believe anyone who seeks to destroy America is inherently evil and I support my positions with facts and historical timelines.

Ron Paul is a libertarian, correct?

Is Iran libertarian? Is NK libertarian? Is China libertarian? Is Syria libertarian? Is the Taliban libertarian?

Do ANY of these moral cesspools grant their people the human rights most Bush bashers completely take for granted?

So what does Ron Paul have in common with these totalitarian regimes?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Brucefan, tank crystallizes the problem with Ron Paul. Tank loved him for his FP -- but what else does he like/know about him?

Hell, many so-called Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama in the general election.

Explain that one. :doh1

 

[brucefan]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I checked that site out and it looks real good. That bill hr1207 really hit's home since i have been against the Fed for a long time.When i get more time i will read more of it.

Welcome aboard


Lots of good non partisan talk over here as well

http://www.the912project.com/

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So, how do we show America what?s really behind the curtain? Read the nine simple principles. If you believe in at least seven of them, then we have something in common.
Welcome.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Right.

Because during the 90s al-Qaida formally declared war but President Clinton couldn't be bothered and instead shuffled the matter over to the Justice Dept. Clinton was preoccupied with other priorities -- like molesting chubby interns in the Oval Office.

We had some catching up to do.



Uh huh.

You're talking about Michael Scheuer, right? Imperial Hubris?

I think the title says it all. For every "blame America" Scheuer, I could dig up 100 CIA officers with a different take.

Bottom line: if you're "anti-war" you'll look for reasons to bolster your agenda and drown out counter arguments.

I'm not "anti-war" or pro-war, I'm agnostic on war, but absolutely ANTI-EVIL.

I want a president to preemptively kill people who are openly (or secretly) plotting to kill Americans -- the only sane, rational foreign policy.

You think America is the author of anti-American sentiment; I believe anyone who seeks to destroy America is inherently evil and I support my positions with facts.

Is Iran libertarian? Is NK libertarian? Is China libertarian? Is Syria libertarian? Is the Taliban libertarian?

Do ANY of these moral cesspools grant their people the human rights most Bush bashers completely take for granted?

Brucefan, tank crystallizes the problem with Ron Paul. Tank loved him for his FP -- but what else does he like/know about him?

Hell, many so-called Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama in the general election.

Explain that one. :doh1

So next your going to tell me al-quada was in Iraq right? I was all for going after them but they sure as hell was not in Iraq.The rest of the world knew it too. If your against all these bad countries then maybe we should not have armed half of them or let them buy our debt.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I want a president to preemptively kill people who are openly (or secretly) plotting to kill Americans -- the only sane, rational foreign policy.



. :doh1

And now you know why they want to do that to us too.Your idea's are no different than theirs.

 

[brucefan]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Right.

Because during the 90s al-Qaida formally declared war but President Clinton couldn't be bothered and instead shuffled the matter over to the Justice Dept. Clinton was preoccupied with other priorities -- like molesting chubby interns in the Oval Office.

We had some catching up to do.



Uh huh.

You're talking about Michael Scheuer, right? Imperial Hubris?

I think the title says it all. For every "blame America" Scheuer, I could dig up 100 CIA officers with a different take.

Bottom line: if you're "anti-war" you'll look for reasons to bolster your agenda and drown out counter arguments.

I'm not "anti-war" or pro-war, I'm agnostic on war, but absolutely ANTI-EVIL.

I want a president to preemptively kill people who are openly (or secretly) plotting to kill Americans -- the only sane, rational foreign policy.

You think America is the author of anti-American sentiment; I believe anyone who seeks to destroy America is inherently evil and I support my positions with facts and historical timelines.

Ron Paul is a libertarian, correct?

Is Iran libertarian? Is NK libertarian? Is China libertarian? Is Syria libertarian? Is the Taliban libertarian?

Do ANY of these moral cesspools grant their people the human rights most Bush bashers completely take for granted?

So what does Ron Paul have in common with these totalitarian regimes?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Brucefan, tank crystallizes the problem with Ron Paul. Tank loved him for his FP -- but what else does he like/know about him?

Hell, many so-called Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama in the general election.

Explain that one. :doh1

First of all, any Ron Paul supporter who voted for Barry H Obama, was either punch drunk when they pulled the lever, or spent too much time watching American idol instead of watching any of the debates

I have always said that if I had to choose who stood a better chance to move to the center, Obama on his big government Socialist agenda, or Ron Paul on foreign policy, Ill take my chances with Dr Paul.

I believe the average person has NO CLUE what it takes to defend our Country, and no matter who you are politically, no one wants our Country to be vulnerable to be attacked.

Look at how fast Obama is sending more troops overseas .

He probably is turning white while drinking his morning coffee and being briefed about who is trying to kill us today

If Ron Paul got elected, I really believe he would move to the center, but also try to bring some reality to our foreign policy in closing some of our bases that really are overkill

The bottom line is we are broke and cant afford the same policies we have

now


Ron Paul was the only one in the debates who was even willing to discuss our fiat currency, money supply, the fed, and inflation being the hidden tax on every American.

Unless we shrink government, cut taxes, and get back to sound money, we are doomed.

Those issues were number one for me, and still are now more then ever

All do respect Joe. :cheers

You are one of the few posters on here that I respect :thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

So next your going to tell me al-quada was in Iraq right? I was all for going after them but they sure as hell was not in Iraq.The rest of the world knew it too. If your against all these bad countries then maybe we should not have armed half of them or let them buy our debt.

There were many reasons for regime change in Iraq.

The biggest mistake the Bush administration made was groveling at the UN, because the whole WMD obsession undermined the moral authority to finish a war Saddam voluntarily started back in '91.

I'll give you three reasons why invading Iraq was a great idea:

1) Saddam Hussein is dead.

2) Uday Hussein is dead.

3) Qusay Hussein is dead.

Thanks to the courage of a real CIC, the rotten corpses of those psychopathic monsters are now being devoured by insects while their souls have an eternal place in hell.

The region, the United States and the world is safer with a new benovolent post-Saddam Iraq.

I only wish Imperial America would engage in that sort of righteous ass-kicking more often.

Not just because it's the right thing to do -- it is -- but because future bin Ladens will think twice before daring to attack us if they understand the repercussions will be severe.

Remember during the 90s when bin Laden ridiculed America as the "paper tiger"?

Remember when Al-Qaida bombed the USS Cole without any reprisal, which all but cemented the plot which killed more then 3,000 people on 9/11?

FACT: The only thing moral scum respects is FORCE -- SEVERE PAINFUL FORCE.

John Bolton is right: The United States shouldn't do carrots.

After decades of stalling, I'd like any pacifist to explain why a terrorist state like Libya gave up on their WMD program and gift-wrap the remnants in a bow weeks after Bush ordered our military to liberate the neighborhood tyrant?

Answer: because Qaddaffi thought -- scratch that...HE KNEW -- he was next.

After the next attack, the American people will toss the current Pussy in Chief and elect a leader who will make Dick Cheney look like Doc "Jane Fonda" Mercer. :thumbsup

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Yes joe i also remember when the U.S.S Stark was bombed and the barrack's in Beirut was blown up . Since the early 80's we have been attacked and they all had the same reason why. Do you know why that is??The reason Syria became our partner was not out of fear but out of a open hand that we padded well.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I'll give you three reasons why invading Iraq was a great idea:

1) Saddam Hussein is dead.

2) Uday Hussein is dead.

3) Qusay Hussein is dead.

. :thumbsup

And it only cost us over 4000 U.S troops and 400 billion dollars to do it.Yep thats money well spent borrowing it from china isn't it.Gee i can't understand why we have money problems can you?Their are 3 african dictators who are much worse than Saddam was so why don't we go over there and spread a little democracy and do some nation building?

 

[Doc Mercer]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

TO QUOTE JOEY C:

Thanks to the courage of a real CIC

A REAL CIC??


Bush Jokes about WMD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ


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[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

First of all, any Ron Paul supporter who voted for Barry H Obama, was either punch drunk when they pulled the lever, or spent too much time watching American idol instead of watching any of the debates.

I think it was Ron Paul incessantly harping on that dang war, but whatever...

My original point was this:

It is very doubtful a poster like tank would have been a Ron Paul supporter had Paul not sounded like Dennis "Peace Dept" Kucinich -- which I find very sad.

Does this not indicate a slight communication problem?

I have always said that if I had to choose who stood a better chance to move to the center, Obama on his big government Socialist agenda, or Ron Paul on foreign policy, Ill take my chances with Dr Paul.

Right.

Except that was never the choice in the primaries.

Of course if Ron Paul had won the nomination, I would have voted for him against the Marxist.

OF COURSE.

Shit, I mean McCain wasn't my first choice, or second, or third, or fourth or..... :doh1

I believe the average person has NO CLUE what it takes to defend our Country, and no matter who you are politically, no one wants our Country to be vulnerable to be attacked.

Ah, good point. :thumbsup

Since the federal govt's MAIN constitutional duty is the military, maybe the only people who should vote are the ones who voluntarily risk their lives defending freedom? :+clueless

If Ron Paul got elected, I really believe he would move to the center, but also try to bring some reality to our foreign policy in closing some of our bases that really are overkill.

I disagree.

Ron Paul is nuts. :+textinb3

The bottom line is we are broke and cant afford the same policies we have now

Because of entitlements and entitlement liabilities, not the military or any base in the world.

If our government was adhering to the Constitution, 90% of the federal budget would be defense. Military interventions the world over protecting our allies and our trade partners from tyrants, terrorists and pirates would be the norm -- like Jefferson did with the Barbary pirates.

Ron Paul was the only one in the debates who was even willing to discuss our fiat currency, money supply, the fed, and inflation being the hidden tax on every American.

Unless we shrink government, cut taxes, and get back to sound money, we are doomed.

Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe a radical Chavez-like commie in the WH was needed to wake up the silent majority -- the proverbial "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE" moment we've been waiting for from the electorate.

Brucefan, I have a deep faith that American Exceptionalism will ultimately prevail because I believe, as did our founders, that the United States is a product of divine providence. :thumbsup

You are one of the few posters on here that I respect :thumbsup:thumbsup

Likewise.

Keep fighting and ignore the Obambi crayon scribblers!

:cheers

 

[MannyLovitto]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

If our government was adhering to the Constitution,

I'm pretty sure your fellow Canadians are satisfied with the Charter and unlike you are proud of their citizenship.:+waving-5

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

My original point was this:

It is very doubtful a poster like tank would have been a Ron Paul supporter had Paul not sounded like Dennis "Peace Dept" Kucinich -- which I find very sad.


:cheers

Ron Paul has forgotten more about ''blowback''then you could ever learn.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Is Contrarian a Canadian?

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Is Contrarian a Canadian?

Some trolls think so, but then some trolls are confessed addicts.

 

[Doc Mercer]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

He is Canada's nitemare

Thank God ...

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Ron Paul has forgotten more about ''blowback''then you could ever learn.

That "blowback" theory was disemboweled during the primaries, and also the main reason why he didn't win.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

That "blowback" theory was disemboweled during the primaries, and also the main reason why he didn't win.

No the reason he didn't win the primary was Fox news and hannity branded him a kook and the money masters that control this country will not ever let a man that talks about getting rid of the Federal Reserve win an election.

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

No the reason he didn't win the primary was Fox news and hannity branded him a kook and the money masters that control this country will not ever let a man that talks about getting rid of the Federal Reserve win an election.

They didn't mock him for his positions on the Fed Reserve, they mocked him for his naive pacification -- rightfully so.

Unlike many Paulestinians who just discovered the man during the primaries, I have been reading Ron Paul since the early nineties -- back when he and his main adviser lew rockwell published a newsletter -- and I can tell you the "blowback" theory is pacifistic tomfoolery which cannot withstand any serious scrutiny.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

They didn't mock him for his positions on the Fed Reserve, they mocked him for his naive pacification -- rightfully so.

Unlike many Paulestinians who just discovered the man during the primaries, I have been reading Ron Paul since the early nineties -- back when he and his main adviser lew rockwell published a newsletter -- and I can tell you the "blowback" theory is pacifistic tomfoolery which cannot withstand any serious scrutiny.

It has nothing to do with pacification.This just proves you have no clue about it.

 

[Doc Mercer]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

naive pacification

My God ...... absolutlely clueless

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

It has nothing to do with pacification.This just proves you have no clue about it.

Ouch, that hurt. :+textinb3

Is Ron Paul a pacifist? Yes or no?

Umm tank, what type of theories will pacifists gravitate toward? Objective ones? Or ones that conveniently fit into their world view?

Honestly, get real.

Specificity is the enemy of the dreamers.

Newsflash: "Blowback" isn't even Paul's own theory -- it's from some kook professor by the name of Robert Pape who wrote a book with the subtitle "the LOGIC of suicide terrorism." :doh1

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Ouch, that hurt. :+textinb3

Is Ron Paul a pacifist? Yes or no?

Umm tank, what type of theories will pacifists gravitate toward? huh?

Specificity is the enemy of the dreamers.

"Blowback" isn't even Paul's own theory -- it's from some kook professor by the name of Robert Pape.

What vital objective did we achieve in Iraq?What did we gain from this?
Ron Paul is far from a pacifist.His stance is simple, before we commit troops we need to have a clear cut reason and fulfill our objectives with the best interests of this country. Do you really think these people hate us for our freedoms?????

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

What vital objective did we achieve in Iraq?What did we gain from this?
Ron Paul is far from a pacifist.His stance is simple, before we commit troops we need to have a clear cut reason and fulfill our objectives with the best interests of this country. Do you really think these people hate us for our freedoms?????

I don't think they do, I know they do.

Do you know who is Sayyid Qutb is?

He is the modern Islamic philosopher and inspiration of this relatively recent radical Islamofascist strain we are at war against.

Qutb's writings shaped al-Qaida and inspired impressionable jihadists like bin Laden to join the cause. This is all documented fact.

After spending many years in the United States during the 50s, Qutb concluded the American way was sinful -- contra to the will of Allah.

On his disapproval with the sexuality of Americans he wrote:

"the American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs — and she shows all this and does not hide it."

On American music:

"Jazz is his preferred music, and it is created by Negroes to satisfy their love of noise and to whet their sexual desires..

Gee, maybe this is why the Taliban and every other oppressive Islamic regime BAN music and COERCE women to cover themselves in black from head to toe?

These nutjobs believe freedom is antithetical to the will of Allah.

They see exported American pop culture as a threat, and are willing to kill as many innocent people as it takes to fulfill the "cause" - to stop the Great Satan from further contaminating the planet.

Ever wonder why Ahmajenidad claims there are no gays in Iran?

Sorry tank, the Chimp in Chief was right: they DO hate us for our freedoms.

C'mon tank, really....

"Blowback"

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Do you even know who gave the weapons to a young Osama in the war with Russia?????????Why do you think they overthrew the Sha of Iran????Are you starting to understand ''blowback'' yet are you going to keep spouting the chickenhawk talking points????Everything you described about Islam is happening in Saudi Arabia so why don't they hate our freedoms too and attack us??

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

These aren't "chickenhawk talking points", tank...these are all documented facts.

The United States did not give a young Osama weapons to fight the Russians.

They did however give the Mujaheddin considerable logistic military support, which bin Laden claimed to be a loose member of toward the end of the war, if only to advance his own separate sinister political objectives.

To wit, after the Russians were humiliated, the Taliban and what was then the beginning of al-Qaida, turned on the Afghan people and slaughtered tens of thousands of them and imprisoning the rest under the guise of the Qutb philosophy.

Some "freedom fighters"....bin Laden and Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri aren't even Afghans!

What exactly is al-Qaida "blowing back" against again? :doh1

More on Sayyid Qutb :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

Jahiliyyah vs. freedom

This exposure to abuse of power undoubtedly contributed to the ideas in his famous prison-written Islamic manifesto Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq (Milestones), where he advocated a political system the opposite of dictatorship. There Qutb argued:

• The Muslim world had ceased to be and reverted to pre-Islamic ignorance known as jahiliyyah, because of the lack of sharia law. Consequently all states of the Muslim world are not Islamic and thus illegitimate, including that of his native land Egypt.
• Rather than rule by a pious few, (or democratic representation <sup id="cite_ref-29" class="reference">[30]</sup>),Muslims should resist any system where men are in "servitude to other men" -- i.e. obey other men -- as un-Islamic and a violation of God's sovereignty (Hakamiyya) over all of creation. A truly Islamic polity would have no rulers - not even have theocratic ones - since Muslims would need neither judges nor police to obey divine law. <sup id="cite_ref-30" class="reference">[31]</sup> <sup id="cite_ref-31" class="reference">[32]</sup> It was what one observer has called "a kind of anarcho-Islam."<sup id="cite_ref-32" class="reference">[33]</sup>
• The way to bring about this freedom was for a revolutionary vanguard <sup id="cite_ref-33" class="reference">[34]</sup> to fight jahiliyyah with a twofold approach: preaching, and abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system by "physical power and Jihaad."

The vanguard movement would grow until it formed a truly Islamic community, then spread throughout the Islamic homeland and finally throughout the entire world. Islamically-correct Jihaad now being interpreted by Qutb as offensive, no longer "narrowly" defensive as those "defeated by the attacks of the treacherous Orientalists!" believe. <sup id="cite_ref-34" class="reference">[35]</sup>
Qutb emphasized this struggle would be anything but easy. True Islam would transform every aspect of society, eliminating everything non-Muslim.

True Muslims could look forward to lives of "poverty, difficulty, frustration, torment and sacrifice." Jahili erzatz-Muslims, Jews and Westerners would all fight and conspire against Islam and the elimination of jahiliyyah.

Main article: Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq

Among these enemies Qutb was particularly enraged by Jews, whom he saw as a great menace to Islam despite their small numbers. Qutb repeatedly talked of "the wicked opposition of the Jews to Islam," their "conspiracies" and "scheming against Islam" over the centuries.[1] [2]

Although earlier Muslims (Ibn Taymiyya, Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi and Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab) had used jahiliyyah to refer to contemporary Muslim societies, no one before Qutb had applied it so widely, nor had such popular response. While Islam had seen many religious revivals urging a return to religious fundamentals throughout its history, Qutb was the first thinker who paired them to a radical, sociopolitical ideology.<sup id="cite_ref-35" class="reference">[36]

</sup>

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

I don't really care about this Jayala or whoever he is.Yes we did give weapons to the taliban and those same stinger missiles were used against us in 2001.Why isn't Saudi Arabia attacking us for our freedoms ??They are strict islam you know?Why didn't iran want the shai that we put in there?? I'm not defending islam because i think they are nut jobs too but to say they hate our freedoms is non sense .The cia and the 9-11 commision have both said al quada attacked us for blowback.
Osama said it was because of 3 things,troops in Saudi Arabia, sanctions against iraq and us helping isreal.

Now quit skipping the questions...why did they overthrow the shai of iran and why is Saudi Arabia not attacking us for our freedoms. If you answer these you will admit that blowback is the cause.

 

[Joe Contrarian]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Umm tank...

We assisted the Mujaheddin which were LOCAL AFGHANS, not bin Laden, the Taliban (who aren't Afghans either, but from the rugged Pashtun region of Pakistan) or any other foreign "freedom fighters" who pretended to join the cause.

I repeat:

"BIN LADEN IS NOT AN AFGHAN AND THE UNITED STATES DID NOT GIVE BIN LADEN OR ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF AL-QAIDA STINGER MISSILES OR OTHER MILITARY EQUIPMENT."

Saudi Arabia -- by that I mean the government of Saudi Arabia -- isn't attacking us for anything.

Your question is a non sequitur.

bin Laden is an opportunist. He cherry picks 'grievances' -- whatever and whomever he can find to advance his own political objectives which I already outlined: Sharia Uber Alles.

No surprise that since the Afghan and Iraqi wars his popularity and al-Qaida's influence in the ME has plummeted.

Now why do you suppose that is, tank?

The Iraqi people aren't stupid -- they know who the real freedom fighters are: the United States military.

Iraqis know they would be slaughtered by the Jihadists if Iraq became another failed state -- like they did in Afghanistan.

A failed state al-Qaida would then use as a springboard to launch attacks against Americans -- like they did in Afghanistan.

Your "blowback" theory is nonsensical and does not correspond with the historical facts.

 

[tank]

Re: Ron Paul with the Young Turks

Yes bin laden is a saudi.We gave over 3 billion dollars to the mujaheeden in arms and military aid. They attacked us because of our troops being in Saudi , sanctions against Iraq and supporting Isreal...not because of our freedoms.Do you agree this is blowback??They overthrew the shah of iran because our CIA was the ones that put him into power. Do you agree this is blowback or are you going to keep saying it's because of our freedoms???