A RADICAL THOUGHT

WHY NOT DO AWAY WITH ALL FORMS OF TAXING THAT DO NOT INVOLVE PURCHASING SOMETHING.
THAT WAY IT IS FAIR AND EVERYONE PAYS TAXES BASED ON THEIR MEANS I.E..IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT THEY DO NOT BUY IT SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.
WONDER WHY NO POLITICIAN RUNS ON THIS PLATFORM???

TAX GROCERIES AND GAS AND HOUSES AND BOATS AND GUNS AND SUCH MORE.
DO AWAY WITH INCOME TAX
EVERYONE BUYS FOOD..IF YOU GROW YOUR OWN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Why don't we all agree to travel by horseback and covered wagon as well? We can just pay our taxes on beans, salt and hardtack whenever we take the mules into town. . .While we're on that track, let's do away with electricity and all read by candlelight. . .What other facets of "The Good Old Days"(tm) can we reminisce over tonight?

As for why no politicians run on that "platform"--I bet you can figure it out if you think about it long enough (hint: politicians are trying to get votes).

Unfortunately, the human experience is complex. Ergo, the problems associated with the human experience are complex, as well. There is rarely a simple, clear-cut solution to complex problems, no matter how many times we click our heels together and wish it were so. . .
 

brucefan

EOG Dedicated
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

WHY NOT DO AWAY WITH ALL FORMS OF TAXING THAT DO NOT INVOLVE PURCHASING SOMETHING.
THAT WAY IT IS FAIR AND EVERYONE PAYS TAXES BASED ON THEIR MEANS I.E..IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT THEY DO NOT BUY IT SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.
WONDER WHY NO POLITICIAN RUNS ON THIS PLATFORM???

TAX GROCERIES AND GAS AND HOUSES AND BOATS AND GUNS AND SUCH MORE.
DO AWAY WITH INCOME TAX
EVERYONE BUYS FOOD..IF YOU GROW YOUR OWN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.

Not that radical

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_basics_tagline


 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

WHY NOT DO AWAY WITH ALL FORMS OF TAXING THAT DO NOT INVOLVE PURCHASING SOMETHING.
THAT WAY IT IS FAIR AND EVERYONE PAYS TAXES BASED ON THEIR MEANS I.E..IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT THEY DO NOT BUY IT SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.
WONDER WHY NO POLITICIAN RUNS ON THIS PLATFORM???

TAX GROCERIES AND GAS AND HOUSES AND BOATS AND GUNS AND SUCH MORE.
DO AWAY WITH INCOME TAX
EVERYONE BUYS FOOD..IF YOU GROW YOUR OWN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.

The Govt. used to do it that way until the Federal Income and Federal Reserve came into play on 1913. Amazing the progress we have made since that time -- 12.5 Trillion in debt. That took some talent out of Washington.
 

Munchkin Man

EOG Dedicated
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

WHY NOT DO AWAY WITH ALL FORMS OF TAXING THAT DO NOT INVOLVE PURCHASING SOMETHING.
THAT WAY IT IS FAIR AND EVERYONE PAYS TAXES BASED ON THEIR MEANS I.E..IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT THEY DO NOT BUY IT SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.
WONDER WHY NO POLITICIAN RUNS ON THIS PLATFORM???

TAX GROCERIES AND GAS AND HOUSES AND BOATS AND GUNS AND SUCH MORE.
DO AWAY WITH INCOME TAX
EVERYONE BUYS FOOD..IF YOU GROW YOUR OWN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.

Greetings KTBKRUSHER:

If the Munchkin Man is reading your post correctly, it sounds like you are offering a suggestion for what is often called a "consumption tax."

This is certainly a very compelling idea, and one whose time may be drawing near.

It is also not as "radical" as you may think.

Alexander Hamilton, who was America's first Secretary of the Treasury, and one of the two main authors of The Federalist Papers, was a strong advocate of a system of taxation based upon consumption.

Here is some additional reading material for you on this very interesting subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumption_tax

The Munchkin Man definitely thinks that such a system of taxation is worth a serious examination and a trial period of implementation.

The Munchkin Man also seriously doubts that such a system of taxation will cause Americans to return to "horseback and covered wagon", as expressed in the slippery slope argument of a certain poster.

After all, Americans are too "complex" for that.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man
 

driver8

EOG Addicted
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

The problem with the so-called "fair" tax is that it doesn't take into account that the poor spend a larger percentage of their income than the wealthy. Usually on things like food, heat and rent- the necessities of life. This translates into a soak the poor or regressive tax. A better system would be to put more money into the hands of the poor , that would stimulate weak demand and grow the economy.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

driver....so your solution would be for me to work harder so that others that do not work as hard can have some of my money.
no.

MM, I am very aware of who did what and has reviewed the "consumption" tax if you will but thank you for bringing it to people like 4625 who clearly have no clue.

Why can we not have a "consumption" tax? Would it not be fair to tax people based on their "consumption" instead of what makes politicians feel better about themselves by income to try and say hey crack whore, i know you don't have a job and have 8 babies and just smoke crack but this guy here that works 70 hours a week in a foundry to pay his mortgage well he needs to pay to raise your babies because I know the world has not been fair to you...Even if he was raised exactly like you and dirt poor and is making something of himself and raising a family....you deserve his money
 

driver8

EOG Addicted
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

driver....so your solution would be for me to work harder so that others that do not work as hard can have some of my money.
no.

MM, I am very aware of who did what and has reviewed the "consumption" tax if you will but thank you for bringing it to people like 4625 who clearly have no clue.

Why can we not have a "consumption" tax? Would it not be fair to tax people based on their "consumption" instead of what makes politicians feel better about themselves by income to try and say hey crack whore, i know you don't have a job and have 8 babies and just smoke crack but this guy here that works 70 hours a week in a foundry to pay his mortgage well he needs to pay to raise your babies because I know the world has not been fair to you...Even if he was raised exactly like you and dirt poor and is making something of himself and raising a family....you deserve his money

You seem to be living in some fantasy land where Americans don't work. 30 years ago Americans had the highest wages and worked the fewest hours compared to the rest of the industrialized world. Today Americans have one of the lowest wage rates and work more hours than anywhere else in the 1st world.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

no fantasy land is where you are driver..you and 4625.
tell me again why this taxation would be unfair?

Let me guess the rich wouldn't pay 90% of the taxes then?????
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

The Munchkin Man also seriously doubts that such a system of taxation will cause Americans to return to "horseback and covered wagon", as expressed in the slippery slope argument of a certain poster.

I am very much aware that what KTB was referring to is generally considered a "consumption tax." My comment did not really address the substance of a consumption tax, as a reality-based analysis reveals that such is dead-on-arrival.
Rather, my comments were for entertainment value and merely a "stick-through-the-cage" at the country-bumpkin "Days of Yesteryear" ruminations articulated by references to taxing "guns" and "boats" and "growing your own food;" as if America were still living in the era of "Gunsmoke" or "The Rifleman" and Hoss is fixin' to mosy down to the holler.
Another public service announcement: don't put down as substance any response that can more appropriately be considered entertainment. This isn't real life. . .12io4j2w90
 

driver8

EOG Addicted
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

no fantasy land is where you are driver..you and 4625.
tell me again why this taxation would be unfair?

Let me guess the rich wouldn't pay 90% of the taxes then?????

Ok, let's say you're like half of America and work paycheck to paycheck. Your last $100 each month goes to food, shelter and clothes for your family and that money is taxed because your consuming, right? Now, let's say I'm very wealthy and never come close to spending my last $100 each month because I have a huge income, I get to keep that money tax free, while you struggle to make ends meet. Call that whatever you want, just don't call it fair.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

how is it fair to punish someone or make them pay more for being successful????????????????????????????????????????????
 

roscoe

EOG Veteran
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

WHY NOT DO AWAY WITH ALL FORMS OF TAXING THAT DO NOT INVOLVE PURCHASING SOMETHING.
THAT WAY IT IS FAIR AND EVERYONE PAYS TAXES BASED ON THEIR MEANS I.E..IF THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT THEY DO NOT BUY IT SO THEY ARE NOT TAXED.
WONDER WHY NO POLITICIAN RUNS ON THIS PLATFORM???

TAX GROCERIES AND GAS AND HOUSES AND BOATS AND GUNS AND SUCH MORE.
DO AWAY WITH INCOME TAX
EVERYONE BUYS FOOD..IF YOU GROW YOUR OWN YOU DON'T PAY TAXES.
what about corporate taxes? how would that work?
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Unfortunately, driver8's subjective definition of "fairness" is bankrupting the country.

GENDER, CLASS, RACE sums up the left -- the EUROPEAN LEFT.

"Progressives" don't care about prosperity -- never have. What they care about is "equality."

EQUALITY of gender.

EQUALITY of class.

EQUALITY of race.

Not equality of opportunity as the framers believed, but equality of outcome in all three of the aforementioned "benchmarks" as outlined by Karl Marx.

"Progressive" taxes, judges with "empathy", "universal" health care, affirmative action, "gay marriage"... it never ends with these touchy-feely stage one thinkers...

(Oh no! Someone might not be getting their "free" health care...so let's turn the entire economy upside the head and pat ourselves on the back for making decisions on someone else's behalf without knowing their particular circumstances.) :doh1

One wonders why "progressives" ever bother to debate the pros and cons of various economic systems since top performance is not their outcome -- it isn't.

"Fairness" and "Equality" is.

See how that works?

KTBKRUSHER suggests doing away with all taxes (Hallelujah!) 91023i2ndw;l.

Then driver8 jumps in poo-pooing the entire idea centering his argument around "fairness".

Fine.

I'm not questioning driver8's motives or objectives, misguided and wrong as they may be.

Just understand debating a socialist on economics is like trying to have a debate with a native from Albania.

Why?

Because KTBKRUSHER and driver8 want different outcomes.

Why?

Becuase LIBERTY and EQUALITY are mutually exclusive values.

It is MYTH to suggest that "we all want the same things" -- we don't.

If Conservatives and Liberals wanted the same outcome -- if liberty and equality were compatible -- we would be standing united hand and hand, already having devised the perfect utopian system.

Of course you and I know this isn't possible. And NEVER gonna happen.

And of course you and I know that Hussein's single term will make the Carter years look like boom times. Time has a way of working through all the political clutter.

That doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is the left's brazen intellectual dishonesty toward the electorate selling their values.

If only Hussein had been as transparent during the campaign as driver8 is being now, McCain-Palin wouldn't have lost a single state.

Instead, the Kenyan cloaked his Eurotrash objectives in time-tested Rush Limbaughian terms:

"Tax cuts for 95% of the American people."

Seriously, for anyone who voted for this fraud... unless you're an unapologetic socialist, you must feel like a total turd right now.

One can only LAUGH at this delusional echo we hear from the Daily Kos crowd that America is "trending more left."

:LMAO:LMAO:LMAO:LMAO:LMAO

I'll tell you one person who doesn't believe "America is left": B. Hussein Obama.

That's right, Hussein understands how CONSERVATIVE Americans are -- just listen to his slick hypnotic rhetoric in his speeches and compare it vs his actual policies.

The real question is, do YOU understand how CONSERVATIVE America is, and -- more importantly -- does the Republican Party? :doh1
 

driver8

EOG Addicted
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Joe, your post is funny, factually inaccurate, but entertaining to read.12io4j2w90
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

It's alright, driver8...

I happen to know EQUALITY (of outcome) is the highest value on the left.

"Free" food
"Free" health care
"Free" housing
"Free" education
"Free" drugs
"Free" internet...

Make the "rich" pay for it -- EVERYTHING!

Unlike Hussein, you are one of the few intellectually honest lefties to be upfront about it -- and have said so on numerous occasions, which I suppose you deserve a lot of credit for.

But if you think wealth redistribution to the 'poor' -- by definition, the absolute worst decision makers in the entire economic pie -- creates prosperity, then you should visit France or Cuba.

Free markets (liberty) reward success and punish failure.

Socialism (equality) rewards failure and punishes success.

I know "progressives" have been trying forever, but you can't make people "equal" by tearing down the so-called "rich" without shrinking the entire pie and making everyone poor.

(Rudimentary Economics 101)

I suggest you continue this debate with KTBKRUSHER once unemployment reaches double-digits and stagflation begins to set in.

"I told you so" is more fun than Monopoly. :thumbsup
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

I want liberty.
God created us equal at birth.
from there you make your own.

as far as corp taxes go....that's a good question Roscoe...what do you think we should do with them.....???


The problem is that Americans think that because they/we are American we are due a good life....we aren't....
we are guaranteed that opportunity...but if you fk up that opportunity why should those of us that didn't have to pay for it so you get chance after chance
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Theory is all well and good--I'm sure Rush has issued everyone here some plausible-sounding talking points. Unfortunately, theory often runs headfirst into reality and shatters into an irreparable mess. We (and by that I mean the United States--sorry Joey, are the new passport rules reciprocal?) have long gone past the station where we have limited government, and this train isn't going back. The only true remaining small government conservatives--my Libertarians--can't win a national election, and due to changing demographics, probably won't ever. Both ends of the spectrum want to use the power of the government to divvy up the spoils, they just favor different constituents.
Those truths being recognized, the reality of the situation is that poor people aren't going away. They are not going to peacefully let themselves and their families starve to death in order to please some pointy-headed political theorist who uses big words to legitimate social darwinism--it just isn't going to go down that way--no matter how much the haves wish "those people would just go away." Nor are poor people going to let themselves or their children die from sickness and disease just because they don't have money for treatment like the haves do. Along that point, as a society, we don't have the stomach to step over the bodies of dead children on the steps of our hospitals, so I don't foresee any type of push to legislate the refusal of treatment based on inability to pay. These are the realities of the situation. Additionally, poor people get to vote, and the ancient Romans showed us that the "mob will always vote itself more bread and circuses." Again, I am merely stating fact. While I think Atlas Shrugged is one of the finest pieces of literature ever penned, this country will not absorb its lesson in the forseeable future--and probably not ever. Once the framework of reality as set forth above is recognized, solutions which fit into that framework can then be constructed. Of course, I'm assuming a desire for solutions, rather than just an futile opportunity to demonstrate how much hatred for the next person the poster has. . .
I don't like what our government has become, but pissing into the wind about shoulda, woulda, coulda, or maybes and mights, is nothing more than a glorified circle-jerk. Taxes aren't "going away" and tax rates will remain progressive. Society--and again I'm speaking of American society--is not a zero-sum game where every piece of pie the next man gets means one less for me. A rudimentary understanding of economics can tell us that.
I have described reality for the forum; which "solutions" proposed in this thread would be workable in the real world?
Okay, back to entertaining stick-poking. . .
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Theory is all well and good--I'm sure Rush has issued everyone here some plausible-sounding talking points. Unfortunately, theory often runs headfirst into reality and shatters into an irreparable mess. We (and by that I mean the United States--sorry Joey, are the new passport rules reciprocal?) have long gone past the station where we have limited government, and this train isn't going back. The only true remaining small government conservatives--my Libertarians--can't win a national election, and due to changing demographics, probably won't ever. Both ends of the spectrum want to use the power of the government to divvy up the spoils, they just favor different constituents.
Those truths being recognized, the reality of the situation is that poor people aren't going away. They are not going to peacefully let themselves and their families starve to death in order to please some pointy-headed political theorist who uses big words to legitimate social darwinism--it just isn't going to go down that way--no matter how much the haves wish "those people would just go away." Nor are poor people going to let themselves or their children die from sickness and disease just because they don't have money for treatment like the haves do. Along that point, as a society, we don't have the stomach to step over the bodies of dead children on the steps of our hospitals, so I don't foresee any type of push to legislate the refusal of treatment based on inability to pay. These are the realities of the situation. Additionally, poor people get to vote, and the ancient Romans showed us that the "mob will always vote itself more bread and circuses." Again, I am merely stating fact. While I think Atlas Shrugged is one of the finest pieces of literature ever penned, this country will not absorb its lesson in the forseeable future--and probably not ever. Once the framework of reality as set forth above is recognized, solutions which fit into that framework can then be constructed. Of course, I'm assuming a desire for solutions, rather than just an futile opportunity to demonstrate how much hatred for the next person the poster has. . .
I don't like what our government has become, but pissing into the wind about shoulda, woulda, coulda, or maybes and mights, is nothing more than a glorified circle-jerk. Taxes aren't "going away" and tax rates will remain progressive. Society--and again I'm speaking of American society--is not a zero-sum game where every piece of pie the next man gets means one less for me. A rudimentary understanding of economics can tell us that.
I have described reality for the forum; which "solutions" proposed in this thread would be workable in the real world?
Okay, back to entertaining stick-poking. . .

 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

4625, with one or both of my now adult kids soon enough making me a grandfather, I've an increased interest in seeing that all young kids receive needed innoculations and needed medical care in response to communicable diseases. While I'm fairly confident that my own grandkids will always have the financial support needed for their own health care, the same can't currently be said for all of the millions of North American kids who they might encounter at school, church and in other social interactions within the community.

For those like "joeC" who will never have kids, there's likely a bit more jaded attitude that can easily shrug off the millions of North American kids unable to receive needed medical care due to lack of insurance and/or lack of general financial ability to pay by their parents or other caregivers.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

what about those of us with kids who are paying for everything that my childred do.
I work to pay all their bills..why should I have to pay Joe Smith's bills because he won't get a job.

anyway...nationalization of healthcare here would be moronic but let's be honest..we are heading that way.
Govt pretty much controls, banking, housing ,lending, now automotive, insurance and healthcare next on agenda.
soon working to better yourself will be what we tell kids about in 100 years about the good ole days when everyone worked for their own betterment instead of the govt. day in and day out
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

what about those of us with kids who are paying for everything that my childred do.
I work to pay all their bills..why should I have to pay Joe Smith's bills because he won't get a job.

The amount you pay in federal taxes that is allocated for food/shelter et al for the impoverished is less than 15% of your total federal tax bill.

No disrespect intended, but I'm doubting you're supporting too many JoeSmiths.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

And KTB, if you are in fact personally paying for most of your children(s) food, shelter and medical care, you are to be commended.

Your example is one that - whether you know it or not - inspires many people who might be considering a "joesmith" lifestyle" to instead opt for more personally accountable behavior in the community.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

MM offers: It only takes one to be too many.

Manny: Not really. There's bigger problems in our world then fussing over the fact that a relatively small portion of our taxable wages are rechanneled into feeding or housing our brothers and sisters.

(presuming that one concurs with the admonition of Christ that all men are our brothers)

And in the event you do not endorse that axiom, consider that your portion is going to help a truly disabled American or a senior citizen who has himself contributed 40+ years of steady employment to the community at large.

I'll pick up the slack for the "joesmith" who "doesn't want to work".
I know that in upwards of 98% of cases, "joesmith" will soon enough become tired of living in the substandard manner that my taxpayer largesse allows him. And then he'll get going and make changes.

Happens every day across America.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Oh yes, it's very Christian to feed our brother and sisters; unless of course, they're one of "those people" (who don't look like us and have "strange" names). . .
 

Munchkin Man

EOG Dedicated
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

It only takes one to be one too many.

Munchkin Man

Seriously? From the guy receiving subsidized housing or disability or some such? Really?:+clueless

Greetings Mr. 4625:

The Munchkin Man does NOT live in subsidized housing.

The Munchkin Man is not on Social Security Disability Income (SSDI).

Instead, the Munchkin Man is on disability with the Virginia Retirement System (VRS).

I'll pick up the slack for the "joesmith" who "doesn't want to work".

You don't have to pick up the slack for the Munchkin Man.

The Munchkin Man is not a "joesmith who doesn't want to work."

The Munchkin Man works 6 to 7 days a week during most weeks with his private tutoring business.

It's hard work.

Somtimes it takes the Munchkin Man an hour-and-a-half to drive to a tutoring appointment, especially in the rush hour traffic.

The air-conditioning in the Munchkin Man's car is also broken.

The Munchkin Man almost died in the heat yesterday, driving back and forth to and from a tutoring session, in 93-degree heat.

The Munchkin Man cannot afford to get his air-conditioning fixed.

The Munchkin Man's tutoring business has only allowed the Munchkin Man to barely "break even" thus far.

But that's okay.

The Munchkin Man will continue to work and work hard at growing his private tutoring business.

The Munchkin Man is not a lazy bum who "doesn't want to work."

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

I 100% support my stay at home wife and 2 children.
I know I pay for many people's support and it does'nt bug me until anyone acts like they deserve it.
I believe there is a big difference between a true disability being helped or an old person vs a welfare/crack whore case or lazy bum or having 14 kids to be put on medicare or what have you.

Again, the problem with Americans is people BELIEVE they deserve a happy life...
not are entitled to the chance to have it.
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

I 100% support my stay at home wife and 2 children.
I know I pay for many people's support and it does'nt bug me until anyone acts like they deserve it.
I believe there is a big difference between a true disability being helped or an old person vs a welfare/crack whore case or lazy bum or having 14 kids to be put on medicare or what have you.

Again, the problem with Americans is people BELIEVE they deserve a happy life...
not are entitled to the chance to have it.

I guess the only argument that the wacky chain emails ever make is the straw man. When you spend your day immersed in such refuse, it become difficult to recognize it for what it is, or you begin to imagine that it's true or that such arguments are actually legitimate. . .
 
Re: A RADICAL THOUGHT

Several of my life mentors have for the most part persuaded me that the less time I spend worrying about what some Other Guy thinks (ie, the guy who maybe thinks he deserves a good life), the more time I have to enjoy my life with friends, family and contributing to the betterment of my community.
 
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