John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

For those of you who wonder why these details or licensing are important, here's the long and short of it. In jurisdictions that regulate offshore gambling well, these licenses serve to demonstrate a good faith intent on behalf of the ownership to operate an honest sportsbook/casino. They have to provide details about who all their owners are and the finances which are allocated to the business. The application fee is $15,000, which provides the resources for the Directorate to investigate and confirm every detail submitted on the application. The license itself costs $100,000, plus $5,000 every year to renew, and the ownership is required to deposit another $100,000k to the Commission in trust to satisfy players in the event of a default (bankruptcy). Now these must seem like huge figures, but they exist because nothing less than that can keep players safe in the eyes of the Antiguan government. These sportsbooks are held to the same standard as banks, and if an outfit is claiming to have a license but really doesn't, that's a huge red flag that they have no problem lying to people and likely don't have the kind of money necessary to operate legally even in a country where these businesses are, in fact, legal.

The entire licensing process is explained in plain English right here:

http://www.antiguagaming.gov.ag/files/Application_forms/G017%20Licencing.pdf

It's really quite an interesting read, and only eight (8) pages long.
 
JerseyShop101

JerseyShop101

EOG Dedicated
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

6.2.1

BETREVOLUTION Casino is operated by BetRevolution Ltd and regulated by the Antigua
Gaming Authority, License Number AGA/CL1/183/2004. BETREVOLUTION Casino is powered
by DGS. BETREVOLUTION is not liable for disputes relating to game play, as DGS under its
own gaming license and in terms of Antigua law is vested with game play responsibilities.
BETREVOLUTION’s operations center and support Centrex are located in Antigua, operating
legally and in full compliance with the applicable Antigua laws.

6.2.2
Read the complete Rules and Terms of Use for BETREVOLUTION Casino.

6.3
Sportsbook

6.3.1
BETREVOLUTION Casino is operated by BetRevolution Ltd and regulated by the Antigua Gaming Authority, License Number AGA/CL1/183/2004. BETREVOLUTION Casino is powered by GX Software. BETREVOLUTION is not liable for disputes relating to game play, as GX Software under its own gaming license and in terms of Antigua law is vested with game play responsibilities. BETREVOLUTION’s operations center and support center are located in Antigua, operating legally and in full compliance with the applicable Antigua laws.

6.3.2
Read the complete Rules and Terms of Use for BETREVOLUTION Sportsbook.


This brings up the question for all the books who are "regulated". I really wonder if any of these gaming authorites or Directorates of Offshore Gaming, etc., actually do anything besides ensure that the books pay their fees/taxes. It seems the forums are the ones who (possibly) get the players paid when disputes arise. I have never seen a thread where a player posted about going through one of these gaming authorities for help.
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

I had found that info too, and when I gave Sidney that license number listed, he said that no result was produced. He said that an "Antigua Gaming Authority" doesn't even exist. Fishy, no?
 
BigDaddy

BigDaddy

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

so where does that money go when they go out of business?

did bet911 have 100k posted up with them?

i never knew this stuff

thanks RS and jersey for talking about this
 
BigDaddy

BigDaddy

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

RogueScholar said:
I had found that info too, and when I gave Sidney that license number listed, he said that no result was produced. He said that an "Antigua Gaming Authority" doesn't even exist. Fishy, no?
Click to expand...

i have never heard of a sportsbook ever lying about themselves on their own website ever:+textinb3
 
Mammon

Mammon

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

From Sbr John:


The first year survival rate for any new book, not connected with an established book like BetJam and ThrGreek, over the past ten years is less than 10%/COLOR]
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

The application instructions state that one can notify the Directorate of an intention to cease business at any time in writing. The reserve funds are held for thirty (30) additional days so that anyone can lodge a complaint and be paid out of those funds if necessary, and then returned to the licensee. That's why it's important not to just sit around and wait for a payment. If something doesn't feel right, get a call into the agency that licenses them (if any does). You typically only have 30 days to present a claim of fraud.
 
JerseyShop101

JerseyShop101

EOG Dedicated
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

BigDaddy said:
so where does that money go when they go out of business?

did bet911 have 100k posted up with them?

i never knew this stuff

thanks RS and jersey for talking about this
Click to expand...


Bet911.com is established in San Jose, Costa Rica. Bet911.com is a company that operates subject to the Republic of Costa Rica’s laws and regulations that govern Internet Wagering. Any contract between the Member and Bet911.com is deemed to be made according to the laws of the Republic of Costa Rica.

I wonder what Costa Rica's laws and regulations are?
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

I read a thread over at SBR last year which claimed that Costa Rica doesn't actively regulate sportsbooks at all, which is why so many prefer operating there to a more conservative jurisdiction like Antigua.
 
BigDaddy

BigDaddy

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

RogueScholar said:
The application instructions state that one can notify the Directorate of an intention to cease business at any time in writing. The reserve funds are held for thirty (30) additional days so that anyone can lodge a complaint and be paid out of those funds if necessary, and then returned to the licensee. That's why it's important not to just sit around and wait for a payment. If something doesn't feel right, get a call into the agency that licenses them (if any does). You typically only have 30 days to present a claim of fraud.
Click to expand...

seems almost impossible to know so i don't see how anyone could ever get paid

they should hold those funds for longer than 30 days.
 
JerseyShop101

JerseyShop101

EOG Dedicated
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Good news, USAPriceperHead is also regulated by the laws and regulations of Costa Rica. LOL

USAPriceperHead is established in San Jose, Costa Rica.is a company that operates subject to the Republic of Costa Rica’s laws and regulations that govern Internet Wagering. Any contract between the Member and USAPriceperHead is deemed to be made according to the laws of the Republic of Costa Rica.
 
BigDaddy

BigDaddy

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

who is USApriceperhead

what brought them into the topic?
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

BigDaddy said:
seems almost impossible to know so i don't see how anyone could ever get paid

they should hold those funds for longer than 30 days.
Click to expand...

Well, they operate on the assumption that if someone feels defrauded by one of their licensees, that it will be reported almost immediately, just like if you went to a bank and they wouldn't give you your money upon request. That's why I always keep records of payout requests and the time frame listed when I make them. I've never been slow-paid yet, but I don't want to be caught flat-footed if it does happen.
 
JerseyShop101

JerseyShop101

EOG Dedicated
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

As crazy as it seems, I would bet (no pun intended, lol), that people would almost feel more secure about playing offshore, if they knew for a fact upfront, that the book they were playing at was actually backed by the mob instead.
 
D

durito2

EOG Member
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

RogueScholar said:
For those of you who wonder why these details or licensing are important, here's the long and short of it. In jurisdictions that regulate offshore gambling well, these licenses serve to demonstrate a good faith intent on behalf of the ownership to operate an honest sportsbook/casino. They have to provide details about who all their owners are and the finances which are allocated to the business. The application fee is $15,000, which provides the resources for the Directorate to investigate and confirm every detail submitted on the application. The license itself costs $100,000, plus $5,000 every year to renew, and the ownership is required to deposit another $100,000k to the Commission in trust to satisfy players in the event of a default (bankruptcy). Now these must seem like huge figures, but they exist because nothing less than that can keep players safe in the eyes of the Antiguan government. These sportsbooks are held to the same standard as banks, and if an outfit is claiming to have a license but really doesn't, that's a huge red flag that they have no problem lying to people and likely don't have the kind of money necessary to operate legally even in a country where these businesses are, in fact, legal.

The entire licensing process is explained in plain English right here:

http://www.antiguagaming.gov.ag/files/Application_forms/G017%20Licencing.pdf

It's really quite an interesting read, and only eight (8) pages long.
Click to expand...


100k is nothing. That's one big parlay. WSEX was licensed. Their debts are way higher than anything in trust would have covered.
 
Max009

Max009

EOG Senior Member
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

durito2 said:
100k is nothing. That's one big parlay. WSEX was licensed. Their debts are way higher than anything in trust would have covered.
Click to expand...

Well it's not everything but it's not nothing. Like Rogue said it could be viewed as a good face effort by the book to become more established. Having said that, I am not a fan at all of regulation so for me being regulated by some government doesn't guarantee anything. Regulation basically just limits competition. I prefer the market place to some government bureaucrat any day of the week.
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

A phone line and a web server? I don't know, but it's sounds pretty wide open down there.
 
BigDaddy

BigDaddy

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

RogueScholar said:
A phone line and a web server? I don't know, but it's sounds pretty wide open down there.
Click to expand...

LOL!

if that is the case it would seem like a license to steal.

RS what books are located in CR

anywhere where i can find a list of them at?
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

I'm unaware of any list consolidating all that information, BigDaddy. I think it would be a nice addition to EOG's content, but I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope after seeing that their idea of "100% due diligence" doesn't even involve a phone call to the regulating body that their advertisers claim to be located in.

EDIT - I found one on Google but since I've never looked at it in depth, I can't offer any guarantees as to its accuracy. Scroll halfway down on this page and it's got a list of most of the well-known shops with their jurisdiction.

http://www.osga.com/Books_list.htm
 
Last edited:
lastboyscout

lastboyscout

EOG Enthusiast
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Most of the books are in CR.

There only like two in Panama and a few in Antigua and Barbuda and even less in Curacao.
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

With its reliable telecommunication system and educated work force, and despite its lack of online gambling regulations, Costa Rica hosts hundreds of sports gambling sites and online casinos, the majority catering to the US market. The internet's Las Vegas allows online bookmakers to operate without having to pay any type of betting tax or licensing fee as long as they block all the IP addresses located in Costa Rica and ensure that all gambling transactions are conducted through offshore bank accounts. Although for many years there have been talks to come up with a legislation specifically dealing with online gambling, Costa Rica-based online sportsbooks continue to operate with business licenses granted by municipalities.
Click to expand...

Costa Rica: Online Gambling Jurisdiction

So it's apparently a phone line, domain name, web server, and a $40 business license from whatever town you choose to operate from.
 
Blondie

Blondie

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

The licensing of books is not nearly as important as whether they pay or not imo.

Any book can put up the money for a license, however if they do not pay out to their customers it really doesn't make a difference how many seals they have on their site.

I understand it can add legitimacy to a new site, however it does not guarantee anything.

If you want to try out the book that's great, if you don't feel comfortable then don't.

It is your choice and no one is forcing you.

and to Rogue,

I suppose I could do like EOG use to and fill this thread with smoke and mirrors.

I could tell you that they have the deepest pockets around, I have seen their books, I had dinner with the owners, and even got to pet their mascot which is an adorable baby elephant.

However, I prefer to take a different approach.

I know what is going on with the licensing, however, I was taught long ago not to state everything I know.
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Jimmy Hoffa said:
They have posted here and any contributor can either start a thread with questions for them or contact them directly for further information.
Click to expand...

So where are they? You'd think an allegation that they lie on their home page about their licensing status would bring them instantly into the fray to set the record straight if any of this were untrue. You also said that you had contacts in upper management, have you spoken with them about this? How easy are they for you to get ahold of or get a return call?

Time = money = credibility.
 
Blondie

Blondie

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

RogueScholar said:
So where are they? You'd think an allegation that they lie on their home page about their licensing status would bring them instantly into the fray to set the record straight if any of this were untrue. You also said that you had contacts in upper management, have you spoken with them about this? How easy are they for you to get ahold of or get a return call?

Time = money = credibility.
Click to expand...

Pretty easy for me.

All I have to do is type hello into my skype :D
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Blondie said:
The licensing of books is not nearly as important as whether they pay or not imo.

Any book can put up the money for a license, however if they do not pay out to their customers it really doesn't make a difference how many seals they have on their site.

I understand it can add legitimacy to a new site, however it does not guarantee anything.
Click to expand...

Well, for one thing it demonstrates that the ownership has the capital necessary to comply with the laws of the country/territory they claim to operate from. It provides an accessible record with a government agency about the basic details of their operation, information which isn't available on this forum. And not every book that starts up can afford those fees, some of these books are shoestring operations to start out with, some are just outright scams. Perhaps it doesn't guarantee anything, but those reserve funds do serve as some form of surety against my deposits and also prevent the book from closing its doors overnight as they have to wait 30 days to get their money back in Antigua. You say the most important aspect of a book is whether or not they pay, but shouldn't that include the government under which they operate? Surely it's against the law in Antigua to operate a sportsbook without a license, otherwise Intertops and the rest of their licensees would pony up the cash to keep their licenses valid. What if Antigua arrests the owners for operating illegally? There are no reserve funds, everyone is just shit outta luck.

Blondie said:
I suppose I could do like EOG use to and fill this thread with smoke and mirrors.

I could tell you that they have the deepest pockets around, I have seen their books, I had dinner with the owners, and even got to pet their mascot which is an adorable baby elephant.

However, I prefer to take a different approach.

I know what is going on with the licensing, however, I was taught long ago not to state everything I know.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Click to expand...

Whether you're lying outright or refusing to share what you know, it's still smoke and mirrors. The sin of omission is no better than the sin of commission. This isn't an issue of privacy, I was able to call Antigua and get an answer to my inquiry in 20 minutes. It stands in direct contradiction to what BetRevolution claims on their home page. So already we're reasonably certain that someone is lying about something. Why would you want to defend a stream of income which makes EOG look so poorly? Why would they want to advertise here if you can't even field very simple and obvious questions as to their legitimacy? As Durito mentioned earlier, $100k is nothing to a sportsbook, it's one big parlay. If they don't have the funds to cover a max payout or can't spare them to comply with the laws of their jurisdiction, how long can they be expected to continue to pay?

I'm sorry but I fail to see a distinction as to how things have changed here since Ken died. The lies were more outrageous then, but they haven't stopped by any means.
 
Blondie

Blondie

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

To each their own Rogue, you will see what you want to see no matter what anyone says or does.

I am tired of going back and forth with you in a conversation that goes nowhere.

As I stated before, play there if you want, if you don't want to then don't.
 
michael_li

michael_li

EOG Enthusiast
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Its hilarious online forums full of drama queens.

I have my pop corn ready :)
 
S

Scooter

EOG Veteran
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Blondie - "I know what is going on with the licensing, however, I was taught long ago not to state everything I know."

The fact that no one from Betrevolution has joined this thread to clear things up speaks volumes.

There's a serious allegation here - that a sportsbook this site is accepting advertising from is falsely claiming to be licensed. If true, it should tell everyone all they need to know - that the site has no integrity and that any information they give could be false.


And the fact that no one who works for eog is providing answers, but consistently dodging questions instead and giving one sentence evasive answers, says the same thing about eog.

RogueScholar should continue as long as he'd like to, but all the info needed about both sites is already clear.
 
lastboyscout

lastboyscout

EOG Enthusiast
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

One thing is for sure, the forum has some good movement because of them.

mmm, maybe Rogue is on their payroll, cause they will be getting some good google numbers out of this thread.
 
Blondie

Blondie

EOG Master
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Scooter said:
Blondie - "I know what is going on with the licensing, however, I was taught long ago not to state everything I know."

The fact that no one from Betrevolution has joined this thread to clear things up speaks volumes.

There's a serious allegation here - that a sportsbook this site is accepting advertising from is falsely claiming to be licensed. If true, it should tell everyone all they need to know - that the site has no integrity and that any information they give could be false.


And the fact that no one who works for eog is providing answers, but consistently dodging questions instead and giving one sentence evasive answers, says the same thing about eog.

RogeScholar should continue as long as he'd like to, but all the info needed about both sites is already clear.
Click to expand...

The beauty of EOG is Rogue can continue as long as he wants to, however, I am choosing to spend my time doing other things than engaging in this conversation with him.
 
RogueScholar

RogueScholar

2
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

Blondie said:
I am tired of going back and forth with you in a conversation that goes nowhere.
Click to expand...

It goes nowhere because when you tell me to ask questions, I do. The conversation stops there because you don't add any information responding to my inquiries. You claim to investigate your sponsors, but no tangible evidence of that is ever shown. You claim to know the situation about their license, but won't offer anything to back it up. Don't blame me for the fact that I can ask questions which show precisely where the buck stops here.
 
P

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Re: John Kelly, some questions about Bet Revolution

WTF is going on with this place? Seriously!!


I say this as a friend but someone needs to assist Blondie in her dealings with sportbooks. With Bet911 still a fresh memory you have to really do some work on the next one that comes in, people are going to really be paying attention. Some of these responses are not what I have come to expect......wow!
 
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