Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Have the Yanks improved under Girardi, or have they regressed?
Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
- Thread starter Flamingo kid
- Start date
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
It's a toss-up here.
You gotta have the talent first. Managing is less tough when you have a team with studs.
It's a toss-up here.
You gotta have the talent first. Managing is less tough when you have a team with studs.
SlipperyPete
EOG Dedicated
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
How many rings does Girardi have?
How many rings does Girardi have?
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Viejo Dinosaur
EOG Master
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Easy to play in a whiffle ball park...I thought Philly's park was friendly, Yankee Stadium makes that park look silly...
Torre is wiser and more experienced...JG is still learning..
Easy to play in a whiffle ball park...I thought Philly's park was friendly, Yankee Stadium makes that park look silly...
Torre is wiser and more experienced...JG is still learning..
SlipperyPete
EOG Dedicated
SlipperyPete
EOG Dedicated
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
BTW if not for Rivera, Torre would have six
BTW if not for Rivera, Torre would have six
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
If not for Torre, Rivera would have 6.
If not for Torre, Rivera would have 6.
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Girardi is garbage....
Joe was not bad..Kept the chemistry....
Look what Joe did with the dodgers....Manny shit and all.
Girardi is garbage....
Joe was not bad..Kept the chemistry....
Look what Joe did with the dodgers....Manny shit and all.
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Guy has to be garbage to win Manager of the year with the Marlins
Guy has to be garbage to win Manager of the year with the Marlins
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Talent on a team is the most important thing.
Joe Torre could not get out of his way when he managed St. Louis and Atlanta.
It is the same old story.
Put Tim Tebow on Vanderbilt. Let Phil Jackson coach the Sacramento Kings. If Ernie Banks had been a Yankee instead of a Cub. If Terry Bradshaw had been a Saint instead of a Steeler.
Etc, etc, etc.
Talent on a team is the most important thing.
Joe Torre could not get out of his way when he managed St. Louis and Atlanta.
It is the same old story.
Put Tim Tebow on Vanderbilt. Let Phil Jackson coach the Sacramento Kings. If Ernie Banks had been a Yankee instead of a Cub. If Terry Bradshaw had been a Saint instead of a Steeler.
Etc, etc, etc.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Who's better? Anyone?
Who's better? Anyone?
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Girardi is a significant upgrade over Torre.. Torre esp. in the last couple of years has actually been a negative as a manager.I could give so many examples but here are a couple: never protected his batters- throw at Torre's team with no repurcussions.I saw that so many times. Overbunted- badly when he managed the Yankees.In Yankee Stadium with the Yankees high power offense seeing Jeter bunt early and often in games was bad strategy and bad math. Bad body language and demeanor at all times. Mishandled pitchers. Terrible at spring training.I remember in Girardi's firdt year with the Yankees Mike Mussina commenting on how much running and physical conditioning he had to do when Girardi took over saying Torre never made him do that!
Torre would not have lasted so long with the Yankees if the Boss had stayed more healthy the last few years Torre reign. Red Sox manager Terry Francona outsmarted and outmanaged his biggest rival Torre from day one. In a totally classless move Torre who for the most part had been a classy guy wrote a tell all book insulting many of the people around him.
Girardi is a significant upgrade over Torre.. Torre esp. in the last couple of years has actually been a negative as a manager.I could give so many examples but here are a couple: never protected his batters- throw at Torre's team with no repurcussions.I saw that so many times. Overbunted- badly when he managed the Yankees.In Yankee Stadium with the Yankees high power offense seeing Jeter bunt early and often in games was bad strategy and bad math. Bad body language and demeanor at all times. Mishandled pitchers. Terrible at spring training.I remember in Girardi's firdt year with the Yankees Mike Mussina commenting on how much running and physical conditioning he had to do when Girardi took over saying Torre never made him do that!
Torre would not have lasted so long with the Yankees if the Boss had stayed more healthy the last few years Torre reign. Red Sox manager Terry Francona outsmarted and outmanaged his biggest rival Torre from day one. In a totally classless move Torre who for the most part had been a classy guy wrote a tell all book insulting many of the people around him.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Varitek catching Wakefield in extra innings Game 5 of ALDS IN 2004. Varitek has no arm to begin with, but was struggling just to catch the knuckle from Wakefield. Torre doesn't even try to steal a base in the 3 innings Wake was in there. They could have walked to 2nd or 3rd Base with that combo. I thought that was terrible managing in that situation.
Varitek catching Wakefield in extra innings Game 5 of ALDS IN 2004. Varitek has no arm to begin with, but was struggling just to catch the knuckle from Wakefield. Torre doesn't even try to steal a base in the 3 innings Wake was in there. They could have walked to 2nd or 3rd Base with that combo. I thought that was terrible managing in that situation.
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Exactly- any Joe Schmo can win with that payroll and those players. I love when they say that he ran a "good clubhouse" Tremendous. 15 years of managing and he had 1 first place finish before he started with the Yankees. Why? because he had crappy teams for the most part. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Torre was fortunate that George pulled a quick trigger on Schowalter. He and Stick Michaels were the brains behind that Yankee revival in the early to mid 90's. Torre walked into the perfect situation and rode it out. That doesn't mean he's a bad manager, but anyone could have stepped in and done what he did.
Exactly- any Joe Schmo can win with that payroll and those players. I love when they say that he ran a "good clubhouse" Tremendous. 15 years of managing and he had 1 first place finish before he started with the Yankees. Why? because he had crappy teams for the most part. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Torre was fortunate that George pulled a quick trigger on Schowalter. He and Stick Michaels were the brains behind that Yankee revival in the early to mid 90's. Torre walked into the perfect situation and rode it out. That doesn't mean he's a bad manager, but anyone could have stepped in and done what he did.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Teggers, here's the difference between Torre and Girardi. Its not really all that much, they're fairly similar managers with similar approaches.
I think that Torre was awesome in the 90s and into the 2000s, he was exactly what NYY needed at the time, they needed a father figure kind of guy, who was no nonsense, spoke quietly and carried a big stick. He had the ability to soothe egos and place these players in a great position to win, no doubt what he did in the beginning was sensational stuff.
For whatever Torre lacked in X's and O's IQ, he more than made up with keeping the unit together with his people skills.
As time wore on however, Torre's 'approach' lost some of its effectiveness. He permitted an epic meltdown in 2004 and permitted the bug incident to happen in Cleveland among other things. his game managing got exposed when he wasnt able to be as good as he was in the 90s. I believe that Torre cost us at least 2 world series titles, in 2004 and in 2001.
As far as Girardi goes, i think Joe is more of a guy who lets the players have fun to a degree. Torre ran a much tighter ship, he managed the team like he was managing a bunch of people his age. Girardi, much younger, has injected some youthful enthusiasm into this team, the players are relaxed and allowed to have more fun than the Torre years. With Torre, there were many less smiles, it was pretty much all business.....and when that 'all business' approach wore thin, it hurt the team as Torre wasnt able to adapt. Also, he was 'too old' to have fun, he was very stationary and expressionless in the dugout and that 'blank stare' rubbed off on his players.
Girardi is a great Xs and O's guy, he really is. I watch every pitch of every game and i 'manage along' with him and we seldom disagree on a 'move' to make at the time. Not too often will Girardi make a move and i say "oh no what is he doing". Not all the moves he makes are great, but most times, he's thinking long term. If we are down 3-0 in the 7th inning, you won't see the A relief staff, you'll see the B and C team. This is why our bullpen and pitching staff has been strong all the way, Girardi did a phenominal job at doling out the pitches, nobody was overused for us this year where Torre, didnt hesitate to overuse his main guys.
Teggers, here's the difference between Torre and Girardi. Its not really all that much, they're fairly similar managers with similar approaches.
I think that Torre was awesome in the 90s and into the 2000s, he was exactly what NYY needed at the time, they needed a father figure kind of guy, who was no nonsense, spoke quietly and carried a big stick. He had the ability to soothe egos and place these players in a great position to win, no doubt what he did in the beginning was sensational stuff.
For whatever Torre lacked in X's and O's IQ, he more than made up with keeping the unit together with his people skills.
As time wore on however, Torre's 'approach' lost some of its effectiveness. He permitted an epic meltdown in 2004 and permitted the bug incident to happen in Cleveland among other things. his game managing got exposed when he wasnt able to be as good as he was in the 90s. I believe that Torre cost us at least 2 world series titles, in 2004 and in 2001.
As far as Girardi goes, i think Joe is more of a guy who lets the players have fun to a degree. Torre ran a much tighter ship, he managed the team like he was managing a bunch of people his age. Girardi, much younger, has injected some youthful enthusiasm into this team, the players are relaxed and allowed to have more fun than the Torre years. With Torre, there were many less smiles, it was pretty much all business.....and when that 'all business' approach wore thin, it hurt the team as Torre wasnt able to adapt. Also, he was 'too old' to have fun, he was very stationary and expressionless in the dugout and that 'blank stare' rubbed off on his players.
Girardi is a great Xs and O's guy, he really is. I watch every pitch of every game and i 'manage along' with him and we seldom disagree on a 'move' to make at the time. Not too often will Girardi make a move and i say "oh no what is he doing". Not all the moves he makes are great, but most times, he's thinking long term. If we are down 3-0 in the 7th inning, you won't see the A relief staff, you'll see the B and C team. This is why our bullpen and pitching staff has been strong all the way, Girardi did a phenominal job at doling out the pitches, nobody was overused for us this year where Torre, didnt hesitate to overuse his main guys.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Its not his fault there are bugs in Cleveland, but it is his fault for not pulling his team off the field. Joe said that was his biggest regret of his career in NY.
Its not his fault there are bugs in Cleveland, but it is his fault for not pulling his team off the field. Joe said that was his biggest regret of his career in NY.
IrishTim
EOG Dedicated
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
I agree that Girardi does a better job at managing (i.e. not abusing) the bullpen, but I think he switches pitchers too quickly. The justification he often uses is "I went with the best matchup by the numbers" when it's something like the hitter is 1-7 against a mediocre pitcher or 3-6 against a much better pitcher which is horrid.
I agree that Girardi does a better job at managing (i.e. not abusing) the bullpen, but I think he switches pitchers too quickly. The justification he often uses is "I went with the best matchup by the numbers" when it's something like the hitter is 1-7 against a mediocre pitcher or 3-6 against a much better pitcher which is horrid.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Tim, I'll give u that, he is a matchup whore, no doubt about it. I think this season was his finest Job considering how he was able to keep Garcia and colon going all thru the year (for the most part) he has so much potential drama to deal with, the posada drama, dealing with soriano and his diminished role, keeping Mariano sound, dealing with Alex and his breaking down body, keeping a proud guy like andruw jones happy with a few at bats a week, stuff like that, the list goes on. People forget that not too many really gave the yanks a chance to beat the sox for div title this year.
Tim, I'll give u that, he is a matchup whore, no doubt about it. I think this season was his finest Job considering how he was able to keep Garcia and colon going all thru the year (for the most part) he has so much potential drama to deal with, the posada drama, dealing with soriano and his diminished role, keeping Mariano sound, dealing with Alex and his breaking down body, keeping a proud guy like andruw jones happy with a few at bats a week, stuff like that, the list goes on. People forget that not too many really gave the yanks a chance to beat the sox for div title this year.
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Think it's unfair to say the heart left we win a title in 09 with a magical season, we have as much heart as we had with Torre.
hey po!! Good to see you around, hope all is well. I
Think it's unfair to say the heart left we win a title in 09 with a magical season, we have as much heart as we had with Torre.
Viejo Dinosaur
EOG Master
Re: Joe Torre or Joe Girardi. Who's better?
Have to blame the third base coach also...
Have to blame the third base coach also...