Analysis of Goodlatte bill, Wake up and call your Congresspeople

[JC]

The key provisions of the Goodlatte Bill are to:

1. Expand the Wire Act to apply to all games of chance, such as poker, blackjack, backgammon, bingo and any other casino game, as well to cover lotteries. This is a "legislative reversal" of the Fifth Circuit's ruling of In Re MasterCard case in which the Wire Act was held to be limited to sports gambling, and not cover any other forms of gambling.

2. Exempt from the Wire Act the types of games offered by sponsors where entry into the games are free to the customers and the only prize is to participate in a contest by the sponsor

3. Exempt from the Wire Act "fantasy sports" involving fictional teams, etc.

4. Expand the jurisdictional application of the Wire Act to cover (1) anywhere in the United States, (2) any State or Indian Tribe, or (3) any United States territory.

5. Further expand the jurisdictional application of the Wire Act to cover situations where a bet is placed or received from (1) anywhere in the United States or a territory of the United States, (2) from the maritime jurisdiction of the United States, or (3) to or from any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation (i.e., Sealand or Antarctica or the Moon).

6. Raises the penalty for violations of the Wire Act from two years, to five years.

7. Expands the criminal acts under the law to include any business that uses electronic payment systems of any type (credit cards, wires, checks) in furtherance of a bet made illegal under the new Wire Act, a new twist on the Leach/Kyl bills.

8. Provides a "carve out" or "exemption" for three big special interest groups: (a) Intrastate remote gambling (all occuring within a state that authorizes such gambling), (b) Tribal gambling, and (c) the Horse Racing Industry. All remote gambling under the IHA is exempt from the Wire Act under this proposed legislation.

 

[Glaken]

JC what percentage of people who work for the Gov in Wasgington do you think have offshore porker or sports betting accounts?

 

[Ironlock]

This is bad fucking news folks.

 

[Ironlock]

 

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Who in Congress is on board with this?

What are the chances of this bill passing in the House?

Does the Senate need to pass the bill as well as the House and what are the chances there?

 

[THE HITMAN]

Yes, bad news it is.

 

[Mr. NBA]

wont take long for me to pack up and head west.......too bad because i like living where I live, but being able to game is very important to me:dunk


GL,


MN

 

[Scarlett]

Where are our lobbyists and why do offshore sports books always act so lackadaisical about this?

 

[Whoson1st]

Whatever happened to the WTO Ruling ? The one which said that as long as US citizens could bet horse online in the US; Antigua MUST be allowed to offer the same thing to US players or YouBet BrisBet, TSN, etc etc. have to be closed ?

 

[Stephen]

Would like to hear what JC and Shrink think about the chances of this bill passing and if a similar bill could pass the senate.

 

[JC]

This is a link to Goodlatte's web site on this topic.

http://www.house.gov/goodlatte/internetgambling109.htm

Here is a link to the last time this came up for a vote on the House floor. Click here to see how your Representative voted:

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2000&rollnumber=404

Remember, everyone has two Senators and one Representative. Contact all three and tell them you vote and you are opposed to H.R. 4777: The Internet Gambling Prohibition Act and any companion bill that has yet to be brought in the Senate.

How to contact your Senator and Representative:

For your Representative in the House,
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

For your Senator,
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Or call this number and give them your zip code,
(202) 224-3121

 

[jam]

JC, do you really think that's going to make any difference whatsoever?

Some insiders seem a lot more concerned this time around. Frankly, I can't believe the party has lasted this long, with the amount of money leaving the US every year.

Some seem to think that there will always be a way around whatever new laws are established, but I don't really buy that. I think there's a decent chance that the legislation gets shelved again.. and again, lol... but if they ever get this bill passed, this industry is going to be crippled.

I hope that doesn't happen, for the sake of many of you whose livelihood is at stake.

 

[JC]

I think if only 5% of everyone who played online called it would make a huge difference.

For a representative who has no opinion on this matter, 50 calls to his office could make a big difference.

 

[THE SHRINK]

Would like to hear what JC and Shrink think about the chances of this bill passing and if a similar bill could pass the senate.

Stephen,

Although JC is probably more informed, it is my opinion that there is always a chance that a bill could be passed after one is introduced such as this one...

We do lack lobbyists because so many sports books behave and act like they are on Islands, hoping someone else will pay for them...

You can bet that Party Poker has hired Lobbyists and I'd bet they get exempt from any bill because of this...

If every sports book were to pitch in 5k or so, we could be in a much better position...

My 2 cents...

THE SHRINK

 

[THE SHRINK]

It took me all of 10 minutes to contact 2 Senators and 1 Congressman by using the links JC provided...

Please take the time guys as it REALLY will help...

THE SHRINK

 

[The General]

Try to be optimistic.

These politicians will maybe get a house vote, but the world is bad shape and the Congress will likely be to busy dealing with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Israel, Korea, Homeland security, war funding, Mother nature, Health care, SSI, tax issues, and other MORE important issues for any gambling bills to get a congressional vote. Look for this years congressional ending to have no new laws passed vs Internet gambling. These reps got to put something on paper that makes them have something to talk to their communities about.

Calling your Sens is a good idea. It cannot hurt. At least send an email and let them know your opinion.

Now that I said that, they'll prob pass a slew of em. :doh1

 

[JC]

Goodlatte's bill also mandates they spend $40,000,000 of American's tax dollars fighting this heinous crime. Good thing this country is in such sound financial shape.

Tell your representative in Congress what you think of that!

============================
SEC. 4. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.In addition to any other sums authorized to be appropriated for this purpose, there are authorized to be appropriated for each of fiscal years 2007 through 2010 $10,000,000 for investigations and prosecutions of violations of section 1084 of title 18, United States Code.18

 

[Dee Jenerate]

Calling your congresscritters is a useless excersize in futility, because they have been bought paid for and controlled by interests who do not care about you or your freedom. The only solution is to overthrow the federal government and return control back to the States where it belongs.

 

[VegasMike01]

I read the bill. I don't see it as having too much significance on the occasional offshore bettor really. The guys offshore running the operations are already 'breaking the law' according to the ridiculously broad wire act. JC, you came back... many operators wont and really dont care about these laws I would imagine. The only way I see it hurting them is limiting their advertising opportunities, because accepting advertising could technically be called 'aiding and abetting' (But isnt it that already?). Who is hurt by the new bill would be services like GJUpdate, Don Best, and others that could be lumped into the category of aiding in placing a bet. But again, with huge exemption holes (1 very big one inparticular), there are ways around everything. Sure we will probably be drawn into more lawsuits, but we will just keep firing away.

 

[David Matthews]

Good summary Jay. I think something's going to pass this year. Hope I"m wrong.

 

[pioneer]

It's up to the offshore sportsbetting industry to develop a funding system that is immune to US Government legislation. It's not like this bill is a surprise or anything, it's been talked about for at least 5 years. Let it pass, and let's move on....this will only strengthen the offshore sportsbetting industry. Neteller is one option; I'm sure the industry can develop other alternatives that will enable them to survive.

The worst thing for the offshore industry is for the US Government to legalize, regulate, and tax the sportsbetting industry. That would kill most of the offshores, which could not compete with onshore, regulated casinos/sportsbooks, that is of course, assuming the onshores were not over-regulated like the Vegas books are now(which is a big assumption I know, but I really believe this will happen someday....the US Govt is just missing out on too much money to continue on its present path).

 

[Sound of Silence]

For those that don't follow US politics too much -- the one and only reason this didn't get passed before was Abramamoff -- the same Abramoff that has been all over the news involving shady political contributions...

However if this is passed it puts it in direct violation of the WTO ruling made in 2005, which would mean the US would face sanctions. Though we haven't exactly looked for global approval on anything we've done latley, so that may not matter.

 

[wrigley]

Will the major players in Vegas such as Wynn be lobbying for this thing to pass? you would think they would since offshore takes money from them

 

[jam]

These politicians aren't going to spend years trying to shut down internet gambling and pass a bill with loopholes.

The legislation has to be stopped or stalled and the best way to do that is by a concerted lobbying effort from the major players in the gaming industry.

So who are the top 5 or 10 players? Party Gaming? Sportingbet?.... Are they doing anything aside from releasing defiant pr statements?

Check out this article:
http://www.igcouncil.org/press.php?id=290

It's the same rhetoric every year. The gaming industry has convinced itself that they are somehow entitled to the status quo and at worst the industry should be regulated (ie. kickbacks to the US govt.). I think that's a shortsighted and dangerous stance.

JC, I still dont think calling Congressmen will make any difference. This isn't about the players and what they want. The government doesn't care that its citizens want to gamble online, they care about the manner in which they do so. I think the players would be better off calling or emailing their sportsbooks and poker sites and inquiring as to what initiative they are undertaking to fight this Bill.

 

[The General]

The sports books certainly have the money and resources to fund some serious lobbyists against this fight, although I have not contemplated any consequences that may occur.

 

[SlipperyPete]

For those that don't follow US politics too much -- the one and only reason this didn't get passed before was Abramamoff -- the same Abramoff that has been all over the news involving shady political contributions...

Isnt it funny how fast your opinon of someone can change

Before this I was like what a jerkoff this guy was.
But now I feel his pain:+frustrat

 

[hroberts]

Will the major players in Vegas such as Wynn be lobbying for this thing to pass? you would think they would since offshore takes money from them

Vegas could care less about their sportsbooks because they make way more at every other game. The sportsbook is there to lure people to go to the casino.

 

[Whoson1st]

Da Plane Boss Da Plane

Da Players Stupid Da Players Stupid Stupid!

The ONLY way they are going to stop it totally is to target the players and it looks like that's one of the aims of this law.

How do others read this?

 

[wantitall4moi]

This is setting them up to do it themselves in the future...period. Which isn't that bad an idea.

With the new inclusions (lotteries, Poker, casinogames, etc) they see the money that is being sent offshore. Sportsbetting was the tip of the iceberg and not really "worth" it to them. Then they ran the numbers, and now it includes all the forms of gambling.

Then when you see the exclusions,which is stuff already set in place that they get a cut of, (except for maybe Indian gaming) it s obvious that new legislation will come out later on that will ALLOW gambling, but at govt. regulated site. Hell, they might even get together with foriegn governments to allow people to bet at the places we bet now. But with much stricter guidelines for these places to follow. Sort of like what Great Britain has inplace now.

It might kill some of the vig, and probably will hurt some of the low vig places. But they will still e able to do it I am sure. At least the ones worth playing at.

Sacrificing some of these shit shops to have US regulatory commision overseeing it is no big foul.

I know this is probably an unpopular stance, but mostly made by guys who want to scam and steal and cheat and continue to get away with it.

Not to mention that other than getting money to and from these places, these laws mean absolutely nothing to the people who are making the bets. The next gambler that gets prosecuted will be the first. They do not want to put guys that gamble in jail, they simpley see the huge cash flow out there, and realize they missed the boat, and are setting themselves up to come in and get their piece of it.

Potentially it might be a lot better than we have right now. Imagine the Vegas shops with the volume and action they used to have. Shops that are backed by multi BILLION dollar PUBLIC corporations. The reason Vegas locked down the books originally was because of the scams and shit that went on that their volume couldn't withstand. Withthat volume back again, they could easilly offer reduced vig and all the stuff that the places now offer. Afterall these places have set it up for them.

IO am not totally against all this, as long as the potential for it to be more regulated is out there. Obviously that is something they can't tip their hands too. They have been trying to do it for years now, but the paranoi that abounds is ridiculous, and the mney simpley wasn't there in the past. Now it is, and I think now it gets passed.

Much better to get that revenue to stay in this country than to go to a bunch of scum bags that dot this industry around the world IMO.

 

[JC]

This is setting them up to do it themselves in the future...period. Which isn't that bad an idea.

With the new inclusions (lotteries, Poker, casinogames, etc) they see the money that is being sent offshore. Sportsbetting was the tip of the iceberg and not really "worth" it to them. Then they ran the numbers, and now it includes all the forms of gambling.

Then when you see the exclusions,which is stuff already set in place that they get a cut of, (except for maybe Indian gaming) it s obvious that new legislation will come out later on that will ALLOW gambling, but at govt. regulated site. Hell, they might even get together with foriegn governments to allow people to bet at the places we bet now. But with much stricter guidelines for these places to follow. Sort of like what Great Britain has inplace now.

It might kill some of the vig, and probably will hurt some of the low vig places. But they will still e able to do it I am sure. At least the ones worth playing at.

Sacrificing some of these shit shops to have US regulatory commision overseeing it is no big foul.

I know this is probably an unpopular stance, but mostly made by guys who want to scam and steal and cheat and continue to get away with it.

Not to mention that other than getting money to and from these places, these laws mean absolutely nothing to the people who are making the bets. The next gambler that gets prosecuted will be the first. They do not want to put guys that gamble in jail, they simpley see the huge cash flow out there, and realize they missed the boat, and are setting themselves up to come in and get their piece of it.

Potentially it might be a lot better than we have right now. Imagine the Vegas shops with the volume and action they used to have. Shops that are backed by multi BILLION dollar PUBLIC corporations. The reason Vegas locked down the books originally was because of the scams and shit that went on that their volume couldn't withstand. Withthat volume back again, they could easilly offer reduced vig and all the stuff that the places now offer. Afterall these places have set it up for them.

IO am not totally against all this, as long as the potential for it to be more regulated is out there. Obviously that is something they can't tip their hands too. They have been trying to do it for years now, but the paranoi that abounds is ridiculous, and the mney simpley wasn't there in the past. Now it is, and I think now it gets passed.

Much better to get that revenue to stay in this country than to go to a bunch of scum bags that dot this industry around the world IMO.

So you are acknowleding this is just protectionism and you are ok with it? Am I reading this properly?

 

[wantitall4moi]

I wouldn't call it protectionism.

It all depends on their intentions.

If the Government wants to make all gambling and all internet stuff affiliated with gambling/gaming illegal or impossible to access from the US with no future plans of offering "their" version, then I am against it.

If they want to step in and regulate it somehow, then I am for it. This includes alllowing internet access to the stuff we have right now.

My hang up is the whole internet thing. It should be regulated in some ways, but not by the US or any single government. But there has to be some recourse.

But if you want protectionsim sift through the posts from the past few years and few days in just about every forum out there. Scam artists, thefts, accusations, proof, stiffings (sic), extortions etc. And these actions are from people that are supposedly PRO-PLAYER? This industry is full of scum, on all fronts. There is no denying that.

Most people here know better, know the scum, or ARE the scum. But each year more and more people get introduced, that are clueless. How much wasted money do they account for?

If these legislators took half the shit from the past few years and presented that as "evidence" as to why they need to step in (assuming that is the plan) then you bet your ass it would pass.

But ultimately it comes down to the govt needing to be at war with something. First it was segregation, then it was poverty, then it was drugs,then it was "big" business", then it was terrorism(which took over for the initial salvo against gambling), now it is back to gambling. The govt has to be at "war" with something, just to give them something to do and talk about. That is theway it has always been.

DO I think this passes? Probably not, does it have a chance? Yes, butt hey have to rearrange the wording as it pertains to the inernet, and "forcing" them (ISP providors) to comply. If not, then we will see all these places(ISP providors) move into Canada. Then they will have a war on NAFTA.

 

[JC]

You said they don't like seeing the money spent elsewhere. If that's their reason, then it's protectionist.

They couldn't care less whether or not players are ripped off. When I was prosecuted, there was another company called Real Casino that was prosecuted at the same time. (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/1997/03/10/story5.html) They closed their doors and stiffed their customers. But they got preferential treatment because they closed. The government didn't care that people got stiffed. It actually advances their cause. If any of you in the Kansas City area want to look up the crooks named Brad Cohen and Jason Perry that would be great.

If you call the government up and say you just got ripped off by an offshore casino they will tell you it's out of their jurisdiction, you shouldn't be playing there anyway, so it serves you right. But when they get ahold of an operator suddenly they find jurisdiction with complete disregard to whether that operator is legitimate or not.

Let them go after Charlie Therwhanger who sits comfortably in Texas. They won't because he's already closed.

This isn't about people getting ripped off. This is about a few religious zealots who want to outlaw all gambling if they had their way, and their protectionist concessions to make their bill palatable.

 

[jdodger]

Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but especially if I you live in a state (like Nevada) where the state legislature has passed laws specifically making offshore gambling illegal, wouldn't it be prudent to warn everybody who is planning to write their congressman that they should not mention that they actually participate in offshore gambling?

In other words, make sure you state your objection to the new bills being introduced, but be careful of saying anything that might put yourself in jeopardy.

Although, I think we are still in the situation where there has not been a single individual player who has ever been prosecuted yet for offshore betting in this country, is that still correct? (Not counting the touts who got caught in Florida for their "referral" deals, and not counting some "locals" who were caught also placing significant amounts of offshore action for "clients".)

 

[wrigley]

This bill has lots of Republican support also will probably have Bush behind it does not look good at all
:frustrate

 

[pvcpipe]

Calling your congresscritters is a useless excersize in futility, because they have been bought paid for and controlled by interests who do not care about you or your freedom. The only solution is to overthrow the federal government and return control back to the States where it belongs

.

Dear EOG friends:

My stay at Guantanamo has had its ups and downs. The food and service are terrible, but at least they're comping my stay. I should also have a great tan upon my return, although i'm unsure when that will be. I asked about maybe getting one of those "due process" hearings, but all that managed to due was give the MP's a good laugh. I think one of them took a "due process" in my gruel. Well, I don't want to miss my allotted five minutes a month shower time, it's pretty much my only chance to socialize.

Sincerely,

Deejenerate


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[raiders72001]

Andrew McIver Sportingbet Finance Director

McIver, who was not worried about the US bill to prohibit internet gambling."It's been tried so many times, but it can't get the support," he said. "Personally, I believe the risk of it succeeding goes down each year."

 

[Fordfield]

What will we do when we can't come to EOG or any other site, might as well throw your computer out the window, or have to sign up with Net zero Internet service 10 hrs a month free because we can't come here, what a shame these people in Washington have nothing better else to do, How about the people in New Orleans that are Homeless will contact my Congressman if he is in his Office.

 

[Cobbler]

I think the poker sites have far more to worry about than the off-shore betting; they also have a lot more money to throw around Washington. As much as it makes us feel better to write our congressmen, nothing will happen unless Party Poker and all get involved in finding a way to stop this law or an easy way around it regarding financing your offshore account.

Most off-shore sports bettors can find a way around this law. The goofball watching poker on TV won't bother.

 

[wrigley]

I think the poker sites have far more to worry about than the off-shore betting; they also have a lot more money to throw around Washington. As much as it makes us feel better to write our congressmen, nothing will happen unless Party Poker and all get involved in finding a way to stop this law or an easy way around it regarding financing your offshore account.

Most off-shore sports bettors can find a way around this law. The goofball watching poker on TV won't bother.

Party Poker
Poker Stars

woukld lose millions if this passes