OT - Need legal advice on a trespassing situation at my condo

[Reload]

I've been working on trying to sue a neighbor for trespassing and figured I'd run it by the brothers of EOG to see if anyone has gone through something similar, or knows how I should proceed.

I bought a condo last year and in January, a difficult neighbor bought a unit on the level above mine. There are a total of only four units - two on each floor. Each floor has an outside deck that is space for "exclusive use" among that floor's owners. There is a "common" set of steps connecting both decks, but each floor's deck is exclusive to the owners on the respective floor.

What this neighbor does that is annoying is that every day she goes on the second floor deck, goes down the steps, and then across my first floor deck to get to the driveway. I have been annoyed with her for other reasons and never gave permission for her to use my deck as a means of egress. She has a perfectly useable way out - her front door. But instead she continues to cut across my deck and I consider it to be trespassing.

Research I have done on this has been interesting. The FCC, for example, has a definition of an exclusive use area as one where you have control over who can enter onto it. There also seem to be some words out there about rights of "egress", but I feel if the upstairs owner has a perfectly useable means of egress already then it should be prohibited to use my deck instead.

I have a lawyer working on this situation for me and he has already written a letter to the neighbor. In fact, he is the one who wrote the Master Deed for the condominium. The next step could either be an arbitration case, or even a civil trespassing case in court.

Has anyone been through anything like this before? I am just trying to get as many opinions as I can.

 

[pioneer]

"What this neighbor does that is annoying is that every day she goes on the second floor deck, goes down the steps, and then across my first floor deck to get to the driveway. I have been annoyed with her for other reasons and never gave permission for her to use my deck as a means of egress. She has a perfectly useable way out - her front door. But instead she continues to cut across my deck and I consider it to be trespassing."

Can't you put some sort of locked block on your deck exit? I would consider it trespassing also!

ps. to the mods and/or techies: the quick link doesn't work for me today! Nothing but problems with this site recently!

 

[THE HITMAN]

I've been working on trying to sue a neighbor for trespassing and figured I'd run it by the brothers of EOG to see if anyone has gone through something similar, or knows how I should proceed.

I bought a condo last year and in January, a difficult neighbor bought a unit on the level above mine. There are a total of only four units - two on each floor. Each floor has an outside deck that is space for "exclusive use" among that floor's owners. There is a "common" set of steps connecting both decks, but each floor's deck is exclusive to the owners on the respective floor.

What this neighbor does that is annoying is that every day she goes on the second floor deck, goes down the steps, and then across my first floor deck to get to the driveway. I have been annoyed with her for other reasons and never gave permission for her to use my deck as a means of egress. She has a perfectly useable way out - her front door. But instead she continues to cut across my deck and I consider it to be trespassing.

Research I have done on this has been interesting. The FCC, for example, has a definition of an exclusive use area as one where you have control over who can enter onto it. There also seem to be some words out there about rights of "egress", but I feel if the upstairs owner has a perfectly useable means of egress already then it should be prohibited to use my deck instead.

I have a lawyer working on this situation for me and he has already written a letter to the neighbor. In fact, he is the one who wrote the Master Deed for the condominium. The next step could either be an arbitration case, or even a civil trespassing case in court.

Has anyone been through anything like this before? I am just trying to get as many opinions as I can.

The FCC? The Federal Communications Comission? Just askin, but how would they be a part of an answer to this? Condo laws are different in each state, of course. Alot would ride on how the original docs were written up.

 

[Hal01]

Come on..... Your not going to get any damages from a trespasing lawsuit. Besides trespasing would be criminal and not civil.

Why don't you talk to her about it instead of a lawyer. Grow some balls and talk to her, if you can't resolve something as petty as this, well.....good luck.

:yikess

Hal

 

[sean1]

IF it is a fire escape, you likely can not legally lock it.

That being said, I would simply go talk to her. Most neighbors don't like to piss off their neighbors - just ask her not to do it anymore.

If that fails, I recommend taking action.

Options:

Wait till winter when it is dark in the morning and place hundreds of tacks on the deck - let her walk on them.

Wait till winter when it is dark in the morning and line the deck with all sorts of cactuses.

Get a hose and accidently wash your deck the next time she walks by.

She will get the message.

-Sean

 

[The Devil]

Reload, a couple of well placed bear traps should do the trick........

Make sure you are not at home as you don't want to release the catch too quickly.......

 

[vinividivinci]

The 64k question here is, what does she look like? I could see a trade of favors for rights of egress, or something similar. Run it by the lawyer and maybe you can cover his fees as well !!!


VVV

 

[Reload]

"
Can't you put some sort of locked block on your deck exit? I would consider it trespassing also!

I did not want to pursue that because I figured it might be considered a fire hazard.

 

[Reload]

The FCC? The Federal Communications Comission? Just askin, but how would they be a part of an answer to this? Condo laws are different in each state, of course. Alot would ride on how the original docs were written up.

I agree laws can be different everywhere. But the FCC happened to have a definition they used for it - because a lot of condo owners put satellite dishes up. It has to be done in an "exclusive" area.

 

[Reload]

Come on..... Your not going to get any damages from a trespasing lawsuit. Besides trespasing would be criminal and not civil.

Why don't you talk to her about it instead of a lawyer. Grow some balls and talk to her, if you can't resolve something as petty as this, well.....good luck.

:yikess

Hal

I tried talking to her about it and she does not care. After that I started by sending a letter out to all of the condo owners and they did not care either.

I agree it's a petty situation, but I find it annoying when I open my windows or door and she is there walking by. It even could affect the value of my property in that it's supposed to be an exclusive area, but basically just gets used by her when she feels like it.

 

[Reload]

IF it is a fire escape, you likely can not legally lock it.

That being said, I would simply go talk to her. Most neighbors don't like to piss off their neighbors - just ask her not to do it anymore.

If that fails, I recommend taking action.

Options:

Wait till winter when it is dark in the morning and place hundreds of tacks on the deck - let her walk on them.

Wait till winter when it is dark in the morning and line the deck with all sorts of cactuses.

Get a hose and accidently wash your deck the next time she walks by.

She will get the message.

-Sean

Hah, I've thought of ideas like this also! Some even worse than this!

This neighbor likes to piss people off and needs to be put in her place. Unfortunately, the rest of the owners don't care and are not affected by it so they won't back either of us.

 

[Reload]

Reload, a couple of well placed bear traps should do the trick........

Make sure you are not at home as you don't want to release the catch too quickly.......

Hah, some more good ideas there! We're on the right track here!

 

[Reload]

The 64k question here is, what does she look like? I could see a trade of favors for rights of egress, or something similar. Run it by the lawyer and maybe you can cover his fees as well !!!


VVV

Oh yeah, forgot about that. She's the worst looking neighbor you can imagine. The day she moved in, I thought it was Roseanne Barr in her peak of obese-ness. Since then, I think of her as more of a cross of Roseanne Barr and that lady in Porky's - Ms. Ballbricker!

This would be a completely different story if it was a nicer friendlier babe.

 

[TONY MONTANA]

GET A JUNKYARD DOG AND TIE HIM TO THE DECK!! MAY'N!!

 

[Reload]

GET A JUNKYARD DOG AND TIE HIM TO THE DECK!! MAY'N!!

I'd do that Tony! Except this neighbor of mine is actually a junkyard dog herself also! She would just rip any animal apart I think!

 

[pvcpipe]

the damages are not there for a remedy at law. you are entitled to an equitable remedy, however. talk to your lawyer about filing an injunction against her. it is not severe enough to warrant a temporary restraining order (tro).

 

[TONY MONTANA]

TRY THIS GUY!! WE FEED HIM LITTLE KIDS!! MAY'N!!

 

[pvcpipe]

the damages are not there for a remedy at law. you are entitled to an equitable remedy, however. talk to your lawyer about filing an injunction against her. it is not severe enough to warrant a temporary restraining order (tro).

 

[pioneer]

I did not want to pursue that because I figured it might be considered a fire hazard.

Aha...good point!

 

[andrew748]

can't help you Reload as uk laws have a "right of way" clause.

so from the sound of things you potentialy could be blocking a fire escape.

2nd and more importantly are costs involved in lawyers and bad feeling generated.

she does afterall live next door.

i wish you luck with a mutually agreeable solution

 

[NickPappagiorgio]

Put a couple of bags of sh*t on your deck and hope she steps in one. Since they are on your "property" she really cant do anything. Unless shes hot, then try to bed her and dont worry about where she walks.

 

[ConansHammer]

I think this deck is considered common elements. Its more a question of deck design then anything else. So she is on the second floor, she walks down the stairs to get to the ground level. While she is on the ground level she happens to walk across your back yard?

Well your back yard is common elements as well. Your property rights are non existent about one inch outside your exterior walls.

Her unit pays 1/4 of the land scapping charges etc yet she is not on the ground.

You dont need a lawyer for this. Wasted money that a lawyer will gladly accept.

 

[pioneer]

Reload,
From all the comments here, I fear that you're about to learn a valuable lesson about our legal system, ie. that the criminals have all the rights! There is no question but that she is trespassing, but yet I'm afraid you will have no legal recourse. I had a similar situation when I rented a property several years ago and the tenant stopped paying the rent and it took me months to finally get him evicted.

I would wait until she has company or just when she wants to be alone and unbothered and walk up those shared steps and just camp out on her deck, preferably with some loud obnoxious music. Have her call the cops on you so they can read the law to you about trespassing. Good luck!

 

[Stickie]

Really how often could she be walking by. 2-3 times a day?

Can't be that bad to have to look at her ugly mug for 6 seconds.

 

[dirty]

Put a Motion Sensor with a Loud Assed alarm on your Deck that sounds like a Tornado Siren....Every time she steps on the Deck it will go off....

First time Bet she Pisses herself :+peeing-5

 

[IDENTITY]

hal - youre wrong. this IS a civil matter.
and pcvpipe - there are damages here.

RELOAD - first of all, its obesity, not obeseness. lol. second, if ur lawyer is ssmart, shell send a letter stating that this woman walking across the deck is breaching the condo rules/procedures, etc. and is decreasing the value of ur unit. if u can have an expert/friend testify that her being there all the time creates a nuisance, you can legitimately sue her for damages....that should cause her to stop walking by....but you need an opinion first and foremost that this is decreasing the value of ur property!!! good luck, sir, and if u want further help, i can be retained for a $10,000 retainer sir!!!

 

[Shortbus]

did you ask her to stop walking across it?

 

[Reload]

the damages are not there for a remedy at law. you are entitled to an equitable remedy, however. talk to your lawyer about filing an injunction against her. it is not severe enough to warrant a temporary restraining order (tro).

I have thought about going the injunction route, but agree a temporary restraining order is not needed.

 

[Reload]

can't help you Reload as uk laws have a "right of way" clause.

so from the sound of things you potentialy could be blocking a fire escape.

2nd and more importantly are costs involved in lawyers and bad feeling generated.

she does afterall live next door.

i wish you luck with a mutually agreeable solution

I agree that the costs involved with the lawyers may not be worth the trouble. But the bad feelings are already there and not much would end that at this point. She has caused problems with other issues like parking, etc. Unfortunately, I am the so-called "bad guy" here since the other owners will not side with me.

 

[Reload]

Put a couple of bags of sh*t on your deck and hope she steps in one. Since they are on your "property" she really cant do anything. Unless shes hot, then try to bed her and dont worry about where she walks.

Hah, that's one thing I still didn't think of putting there! I'm definitely getting some good ideas now thanks to posting about this! And she's not hot - she looks like Roseanne Barr and Ms. Ballbricker from Porky's.

 

[Reload]

I think this deck is considered common elements. Its more a question of deck design then anything else. So she is on the second floor, she walks down the stairs to get to the ground level. While she is on the ground level she happens to walk across your back yard?

Well your back yard is common elements as well. Your property rights are non existent about one inch outside your exterior walls.

Her unit pays 1/4 of the land scapping charges etc yet she is not on the ground.

You dont need a lawyer for this. Wasted money that a lawyer will gladly accept.

It's tough to call the deck "common" because it's considered an "exclusive area". Yes, it is considered part of the general maintenance (wouldn't want one owner painting their's differently, etc.) but the thing is that she has her own "exclusive" deck on the second floor which I obviously do not use. She did not pay for access to both decks - each owner only has one. So that's why using this as a means of egress makes me feel screwed over.

 

[Reload]

Reload,
From all the comments here, I fear that you're about to learn a valuable lesson about our legal system, ie. that the criminals have all the rights! There is no question but that she is trespassing, but yet I'm afraid you will have no legal recourse. I had a similar situation when I rented a property several years ago and the tenant stopped paying the rent and it took me months to finally get him evicted.

I would wait until she has company or just when she wants to be alone and unbothered and walk up those shared steps and just camp out on her deck, preferably with some loud obnoxious music. Have her call the cops on you so they can read the law to you about trespassing. Good luck!

I had started to feel this way for a while - that perhaps the legal system will not protect me in a case like this. And I have thought of retaliation but since lawyers are now involved in this, I'd rather stay clean right now. But in the end if they decide she can walk on it, then I'll obviously have to think of other stuff to make things uneasy for her.

 

[toga]

Just sit there every morning drinking your coffee completely naked.

Even beastly looking broads find that creepy and will steer clear..


Tip: Do it only when it's warm outside, the cold causes shrinkage and can be more embarrasing for you than her..

 

[Reload]

Really how often could she be walking by. 2-3 times a day?

Can't be that bad to have to look at her ugly mug for 6 seconds.

I know it doesn't seem like a big deal, but I feel allowing her this access is more of a favor or a convenience. And she has caused other problems so I feel she is not someone I would allow to do this. She is ugly and a pain, but it's the principle of the whole thing. And as someone else mentioned, the value of my unit is an issue as well. With her and the other second floor owners able to walk on it when they feel like it, that's a major issue. No other unit - including the other first floor one - has this problem.

 

[Reload]

Put a Motion Sensor with a Loud Assed alarm on your Deck that sounds like a Tornado Siren....Every time she steps on the Deck it will go off....

First time Bet she Pisses herself :+peeing-5

I've thought about motion sensors, dirty! There is actually one already there with a light. But I thought about putting one with a camera and definitely sounds as well. It's a last resort though and I'll probably only do it if it's finally confirmed somehow that she can walk on it.

 

[Reload]

hal - youre wrong. this IS a civil matter.
and pcvpipe - there are damages here.

RELOAD - first of all, its obesity, not obeseness. lol. second, if ur lawyer is ssmart, shell send a letter stating that this woman walking across the deck is breaching the condo rules/procedures, etc. and is decreasing the value of ur unit. if u can have an expert/friend testify that her being there all the time creates a nuisance, you can legitimately sue her for damages....that should cause her to stop walking by....but you need an opinion first and foremost that this is decreasing the value of ur property!!! good luck, sir, and if u want further help, i can be retained for a $10,000 retainer sir!!!

I already had a lawyer send one "letter of opinion" stating that what she was doing is trespassing. I have thought a lot about the how the value of the unit is affected - and that is a big part of the issue for me. In the Master Deed, there is no mention of using the area as a means of egress. At least one other Master Deed I found from another condo specifically had it say "exclusive area except for as a means of egress". Our Master Deed does not have that in it, so even though it's a second means of egress for emergencies I am hoping that fighting this results in my favor. If all else fails, I agree focusing on the value of the property could be done in the next "round" of communcation on this.

 

[Reload]

did you ask her to stop walking across it?

Yes and she vocally refused. Then I sent letters out, etc. and it went from there. She will keep doing it just to annoy me and also because she is fat and too lazy to walk out her front door instead.

 

[Reload]

Just sit there every morning drinking your coffee completely naked.

Even beastly looking broads find that creepy and will steer clear..


Tip: Do it only when it's warm outside, the cold causes shrinkage and can be more embarrasing for you than her..

Hah, I have thought of this. Last week, I almost chucked a "moon" at her when she came down arguing about the letter my lawyer sent. But I'm trying to stay clean right now so she has nothing to complain about. She even said my letters were a "form of harrassment", so I need to be a little careful until this is more settled.

 

[pvcpipe]

ID,

i don't know how long you've been a lawyer. i can tell you, without embarrasment, that i've only had my license a little over a year. but i can also tell you that if i brought a civil action in circuit court claiming damages based on nuisance from a lone trespasser walking on private property, i would not only be laughed out of court but i would piss off whatever judge i drew. and then, every time i was in front of that judge for the rest of his time on the bench, he'd probably shit on me for being the scumbag lawyer who claimed damages on trespass. then again, maybe the south is different from your neck of the woods.

plus this chick sounds worthless anyway. best case scenario default judgement he never collects. but if you violate an injunction, you can get her locked up. moreover, as a practical matter, i think a demand letter from an attorney followed by seeking an equitable remedy rather than money damages is more appropriate.

 

[pvcpipe]

ID,

i don't know how long you've been a lawyer. i can tell you, without embarrasment, that i've only had my license a little over a year. but i can also tell you that if i brought a civil action in circuit court claiming damages based on nuisance from a lone trespasser walking on private property, i would not only be laughed out of court but i would piss off whatever judge i drew. and then, every time i was in front of that judge for the rest of his time on the bench, he'd probably shit on me for being the scumbag lawyer who claimed damages on trespass. then again, maybe the south is different from your neck of the woods.

plus this chick sounds worthless anyway. best case scenario default judgement he never collects. but if you violate an injunction, you can get her locked up. moreover, as a practical matter, i think a demand letter from an attorney followed by seeking an equitable remedy rather than money damages is more appropriate.