1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

#1
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/bernieclemente/190051

1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame?

Apr 24, 2009 02:02 PM |
Jim Thome is knocking on the door of becoming the 50th player in Major League Baseball history to join the 1,500 RBI club.

1,500 RBI's is a big number. That is 15 years of 100 RBI's. You have to been good, and sustain that excellence to reach that mark.

Only 15 players who have reached that milestone are not in the Hall of Fame.

4. Barry Bonds, 1996
14. Rafael Palmerio, 1835
18. Ken Griffey Jr, 1774
19. Manny Ramirez, 1737
21. Frank Thomas, 1704
24. Sammy Sosa, 1667
27. Gary Sheffield, 1634
28. Harold Baines, 1628
30. Alex Rodriguez, 1606
34. Andre Dawson, 1591
40. Fred McGriff, 1,550
44. Jeff Bagwell, 1529
47. Jeff Kent, 1518
49. Carlos Delgado, 1503
50. Jim Thome, 1,499

Griffey, Ramirez, Thomas, and Kent will all be enshirned once eligiable, so that leaves 11.

Bonds, Palmerio, Sosa, Sheffield, Rodriguez all have been liked to PEDs.

That leaves Baines, Dawson, McGriff, Bagwell, Delgado, and Thome.


Harold Baines

Baines is one of the most deserving players that doesn't get thrown into the Hall conversation.

He never had the 'peak' dominant run, was not a pereninal MVP candidate, only played in six All-Star games, and played most of his career as a DH.

Still, in 22 seasons, Harold spots a career line of .289/.356/.465, with 2,866 hits, 1,299 runs, 488 doubles, 384 home runs, 1,062 walks, and a 120 OPS+. And he hit .324 in 100 plus post-season at-bats.

Those look like Hall of Fame numbers to me. The only player who has more hits than Baines who isn't eligiable for Hall or used steroids is Pete Rose.

In his third year on the ballot in 2009, Baines received personal highes of 32 votes and 5.9%. He's got aways to go, and it is still surprising, that his name at least doesn't come up for disucssion.


Andre Dawson

Andre Dawson has the awards on his resume, MVP, two MVP runner-ups, Rookie of the Year, 8x All-Star, 8x Gold Glove Winner; and will likely be enshirned within the next year or two.

He was a 5-tool player. He is only one of six members of the 300 HR/300 SB club, and in addition, won eight gold gloves, and is 7th in the all-times Power/Speed Number by baseball-reference.com.

In 21 seasons, Dawson compiled a career line of .279/.323/.482, with 2,774 hits, 1,373 runs, 503 doubles, 98 triples, 438 home runs, 1,591 RBI's, 314 SB's, and a 119 OPS+.

Next year will be The Hawk's ninth year on the ballot, and his votes have increased each season, topping out last year at 361 votes and 67%. I'm not certain about this, but I think that no one has ever got that high, without eventually being elected.


Fred McGriff

The Crime Dog was one of baseball premier home run hitters before the Steroid era exploded in the 90s. He was consistent too, 15 staright years of 20 HR's and 80 RBI's or more (actually hit 19 HR in '88.)

He only was selected to 5 All-Star games, but was in the top 10 in MVP voting each year during his prime.

In 19 seasons, McGriff racked-up a career line of .284/.377/.509 with 2,490 hits, 1,349 runs, 441 doubles, 493 home runs, 1,550 RBI's, 1,305 walks, and a 134 OPS+. He also hit over .300 in 200 plus post-season plate apperances and was a main piece to the Braves '95 World Championship.

This year will be the first that McGriff is elgiable for voting, and it will be interesting to see how he does. Will the voters recognize some of the pre-emminit sluggers of the era that were not linked to PED's?


Jeff Bagwell

If it wasn't for a bum shoulder, Bagwell would have likely been a first ballot Hall of Famer, as it stands now, he still has a pretty good shot an enshirnment. He also could of had one of the all-time great seasons in 1994 had the season not been cut short with the player's strike (check out the numbers - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml)

Bagwell hit for power, scored a lot of runs, drew a ton of walks, and ran pretty well for a first baseman (first 30/30 1B in MLB history).

In just 15 seasons, Bagwell accumlated a career line of .297/.408/.540 with 2,314 hits, 1,517 runs, 488 doubles, 449 home runs, 1,529 RBI's, 202 SB's, 1,401 walks and an OPS+ of 149.

Bagwell first becomes elgiable for the Hall of Fame in 2011. Despite a relatively shorter career, his numbers stand up pretty well, and he could get some extra votes for playing his entire career with one team.


Carlos Delgado

Delgado who turns 37 in late June, is the final year of his contract with the New York Mets, and is just 28 home runs shy of 500. Despite a down '07, he bounced back strong last season and could have a couple more productive seasons left in him.

He has been a Top 10 home run hitter in 10 of the last 11 years, finishing 3rd last year. He was also among the leaders in slugging or OPS in every season during his prime.

In 15 seasons, Delgado so far has a career line of .280/.383/.546 with 2,026 hits, 1,233 runs, 480 doubles, 472 home runs, 1,503 RBI's, 1,103 walks, and an OPS+ of 138.

His power numbers are just about there, and if he plays a few more seasons, the rest of the numbers will make it tough to leave him out.


Jim Thome

Thome is 18th in career on-base plus slugging, 15th in career walks, and 4th in at bats per home run.

He has always been a slugger, and has had the ability to draw walks, get on base, and score runs.

Thome, who turns 39 in August, is the final year of his contract with the Chicago White Sox, after finishing 4th in the AL with 34 HR's last year, so he can still do his thing.

In 19 season, to this point, Thome has a career line of .279/.405/.560 with 2,059 hits, 1,441 runs, 398 doubles, 545 home runs, 1,499 RBI's, 1,557 walks and an OPS+ of 149.

500 bombs used to be a gold-standard Hall of Famer, you add 1,500 RBI's, Runs, and Walks, then Thome deserves to be in.
 
#2
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

latimes.com/sports/la-sp-shaikin6-2009sep06,0,4505771.story
latimes.com

BILL SHAIKIN / ON BASEBALL

Dodgers slugger Jim Thome has long trip to Hall

Thome and his father, Chuck, personally delivered Jim's 500th home run ball to the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum after several postponed attempts.

By Bill Shaikin
September 6, 2009


Jim Thome took his baseball and went home.

He didn't want to. He had no choice. He was snowed in.

He and his father would have to visit the Hall of Fame some other time, in better weather, for a special delivery.

Baseball players are not responsible for historic preservation. Hit a milestone home run, sign the bat or ball, let the Hall of Fame worry about getting the artifact in hand.

That would not do for Thome, not for a baseball that meant so very much to his family. Thome had the ball he hit for his 500th home run, and he and his father would drop off the ball in person, in Cooperstown.

He hit that home run at home, in Illinois, for the Chicago White Sox. He grew up three hours outside Chicago, and he went home to play for the White Sox in 2006, the year after his mother died from lung cancer.

"When he lost his mom, it was like somebody knocked the pins out from under him," said Thome's father, Chuck.

With the White Sox, he found comfort. His father would not be alone. His friends and family would be in the stands, every day.

In his first year in Chicago, he hit 42 home runs. In the following year, in the final month of the 2007 season, he hit his 500th home run, a walk-off shot against the Angels' Dustin Moseley.

Thome celebrated with his father, and with the milestone ball.

"I would have given it to him," Thome said. "We thought the ball needed to be in Cooperstown."

Thus was born the idea of the trip: Father and son, off to Cooperstown, ball in hand.

The winter did not cooperate. On the day Jim and Chuck Thome were scheduled to fly from Chicago, weather fouled up the plans. The Thomes picked another day, and again snow kept them grounded.

Then came spring training, and after that the regular season, and yet Thome and his father would not be deterred.

There are few things more precious to a major leaguer than a day off. The White Sox had one of those days last August, between one series in Baltimore and another in Boston.

Thome flew from Baltimore to Albany. He and his father rented a car, then drove two hours to Cooperstown.

The ball had completed its journey. Never before had an active player delivered an artifact to the Hall of Fame, said Brad Horn, senior director of communications for the museum.

Jim Thome never had visited the Hall of Fame, and he and his father spent several hours in the exhibit halls. Craig Muder, the Hall of Fame official that escorted Thome and his father, said very few fans recognized the star slugger in their midst.

"He didn't have an entourage with him," Muder said. "He just had his dad."

Muder led Thome and his father into a private area, offering the men the chance to put on protective gloves and swing a bat used by Babe Ruth.

Muder also opened a folder to reveal two pictures from the archives, one of Chuck Thome's father and brother playing in an Illinois semipro league, the other of Jim Thome's aunt, from her induction into the American Softball Assn. Hall of Fame.

"It was the best off day I've ever spent in baseball," Thome said, "maybe the best day I've ever spent in baseball."

The Dodgers would be thrilled if Thome could retract the last part of that quote in about two months, after he gets a pinch-hit or two to help win the World Series.

Thome would be thrilled as well. He waived his no-trade clause for the chance to play in the World Series for the first time since 1997, when his Cleveland Indians lost, three outs from a championship.

"I can still see him on his knees, with his hands over his face," Chuck Thome said.

"I don't know how many more years I'm going to play," Jim Thome said. "To get this chance to win is something I couldn't pass up."

Thome, 39, said he would like to return as a designated hitter next season, with a club in the Midwest, maybe even with the White Sox. And, in another five or six or seven years, he'll appear on the Hall of Fame ballot.

He has 564 home runs, 12th on the all-time list.

Of the players ahead of him, Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson and Harmon Killebrew have been elected. Mark McGwire has not.

Among those not yet eligible -- Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez and Rafael Palmeiro -- only Griffey has not been linked to steroid use.

Thome also has not been linked to steroid use, but he could be tainted by the era in which he played.

"You can't change that," Thome said. "You can't deny that's been a part of our era. The important thing that people need to understand is that not everybody has done that.

"I'm not going to bash anybody. It was wrong. I think everybody understands that. If you do wrong things, you'll pay the consequences."

Thome might well get a plaque in the Hall of Fame. At the very least, he has a ball in the Hall, to the delight of his father.

"I'm living the dream of every guy who's had a son play ball," Chuck Thome said.

Jim Thome squirms just a bit when the conversation turns to his Hall of Fame chances. He is too honest to say he does not think about it, too respectful to toot his own horn, too concerned about a new team that needs him for two months to speak at length about something that might happen in five or six years.

Chuck Thome has no such constraints.

Jim bought his father a cabin in Illinois. Chuck calls it Cooperstown West.

bill.shaikin@latimes.com
Copyright ? 2009, The Los Angeles Times
 

kayvebear

EOG Dedicated
#4
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

You might be right ... I just don't see Thome getting inducted.... fwiw
 
#5
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

it's rediculous some of the people getting in, you get what like 15 tries, it's bullshit
 

trytrytry

All I do is trytrytry
#8
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

He is in the top 5 of the non steroid powerhitters in his ERA..I think that gets him in pretty easy....maybe 5th year or so....
 

munson15

I want winners...
#9
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

No guarantees he didn't use PED's. He'll get in on the sheer volume of his numbers, but he's not a HOF player to me. The Hall has been watered down with the addition of Mazeroski and that ilk, so lots of formerly undeserving candidacies will be successful going forward.
 
#10
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

agree. the hall of fame in all sports should be very very difficult to get in. you must be without question an elite player over an extended amount of time. if there is any doubt that a player deserves to be in,then there is your answer.in 30 years every other player will have 500+ homeruns.its cheap.only the best of the best need get in.not very good players.
 

ouch

EOG Veteran
#11
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

No guarantees he didn't use PED's. He'll get in on the sheer volume of his numbers, but he's not a HOF player to me. The Hall has been watered down with the addition of Mazeroski and that ilk, so lots of formerly undeserving candidacies will be successful going forward.
As a kid, I was a huge Pirates fan. I remember being overjoyed when the Pirates beat the Yankees in the 1960 World Series. I think that Mazeroski's home run was one of the great moments in baseball history, and that Game #7 of that World Series was the greatest game ever played.

All that being said, a Hall of Fame that can have Maz in it, and not Don Mattingly and Thurmon Munson is hugely flawed.
 

munson15

I want winners...
#12
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

Ouch, I couldn't have said it better myself. If you had a vote, would Maz' HR or the Immaculate Reception have been the greatest moment in Pittsburgh sports history?
 

munson15

I want winners...
#13
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

Just thought of another example of how watered down the HOF has become. Last night, with Johnny Damon at the plate, the Yankee announcer said he was gaining on 3,000 hits and that such a milestone "puts you in the Hall of Fame." That kind of flawed logic, where voters simply read the back of the baseball card to decide, is part of the problem. The comparisons don't wash sometimes, but some writers are goaded into voting a guy in based on numerical similarities, rather than the actual impact a player had.
 

ouch

EOG Veteran
#14
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

Ouch, I couldn't have said it better myself. If you had a vote, would Maz' HR or the Immaculate Reception have been the greatest moment in Pittsburgh sports history?
The home run by Maz without a doubt. While it is true that Pittsburgh is a "football town," and that the 6 Super Bowls that they have won in their totality would make Pittsburgh sports fans happier, the Maz home run won a World Series in one moment and set off an incredibly wild celebration which lasted the better part of two days.

Also remember that the Steelers lost the AFC championship game to Miami the week after the Immaculate Reception.

I have a tougher question for you. What is the greatest moment in Yankees history? Not so easy.
 
#16
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

What is the greatest moment in Yankees history? Not so easy.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
In my lifetime -- BUCKY DENT'S HR to complete a huge comeback in the standings....

ever--
lou gehrigs speach
 

ouch

EOG Veteran
#17
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

In my lifetime -- BUCKY DENT'S HR to complete a huge comeback in the standings....

ever--
lou gehrigs speach
It seems odd that with all of the championships, comebacks, history and pageantry, the greatest moment ever is a speech of a man dying from an incurable disease.
 

munson15

I want winners...
#18
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

I have a tougher question for you. What is the greatest moment in Yankees history? Not so easy.
My answer to that question would be Chris Chambliss' HR to win the 1976 AL pennant, the Yankees' first since 1964. I am biased since I was in the building and afterwards, on the field, but it was the first Yankee HR I know of that instantly won a pennant/World Series. Ironically, I was in Yankee Stadium 27 years later when Aaron Boone won the 2003 AL pennant.
 

ouch

EOG Veteran
#20
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

My answer to that question would be Chris Chambliss' HR to win the 1976 AL pennant, the Yankees' first since 1964. I am biased since I was in the building and afterwards, on the field, but it was the first Yankee HR I know of that instantly won a pennant/World Series. Ironically, I was in Yankee Stadium 27 years later when Aaron Boone won the 2003 AL pennant.
My greatest Yankee moment would have to be the Don Larsen perfect game in the 1956 World Series.

Roger Maris' 61st home run would be high on the list as well.

It's funny but the Yanks won 5 straight WS championships between 1949 and 1953, and there wasn't one great moment that stands out. Hard to believe!
 

munson15

I want winners...
#21
Re: 1,500 RBI's - Hall of Fame? --- Jim Thome is knocking on the door

My greatest Yankee moment would have to be the Don Larsen perfect game in the 1956 World Series.

Roger Maris' 61st home run would be high on the list as well.

It's funny but the Yanks won 5 straight WS championships between 1949 and 1953, and there wasn't one great moment that stands out. Hard to believe!
Didn't Tommy Henrich hit a game winner at the Stadium during that span? Also, I remember seeing tape of Billy Martin's running catch with the bases loaded at Ebbets Field. Overall, though, I see your point, they generally won easily and even the one 7th game they endured in that span was a 10-0 laugher if I recall.
 
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