Adios Fred Hoiberg
- Thread starter blueline
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I see a trend with Blueline's thread titles.
Never liked basketball coaches who ignore the defensive side of the floor.
Never liked basketball coaches who ignore the defensive side of the floor.
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Under 30.5 was a beautiful bet.
Tank you very much.
Tank you very much.
Do the Bulls still draw a crowd at United Center?
FairWarning
Bells Beer Connoisseur
Yes but the bloom is off the Rose for the Blackhawks.
Realistically, who could've had any expectations for this Bulls team? I don't know if Hoiberg can coach or not; he never was given any talent. Yet Paxson and Forman have been around for what seems like is forever. Amazing what one game winning shot in the Finals can go to one's job security.
blueline
EOG Master
Though nobody publicly blasted Jim Boylen for reprising Floyd’s move not once but twice during the Bulls’ 133-77 loss to the Celtics on Saturday night at the United Center, frustration filled the postgame locker room. The 56-point margin set a franchise mark for largest loss, which prompted boos to rain down loudly at game’s end.
It also is the largest margin of victory in Celtics history and ties the NBA record for most lopsided victory in a road game.
But Bulls players struggled to understand the second instance, which backfired when the Celtics ran away and hid. That led to Boylen making a — using his word — “premeditated” decision that a competitive Sunday practice would be more beneficial than reinserting the starters, who sat for the final 21 minutes, 2 seconds.
“No, you don’t,” a visibly frustrated LaVine interrupted when asked a longer question about rarely seeing five-man substitutions.
As for LaVine’s reaction to Boylen’s move?
“Um, it is what it is,” LaVine said. “We gotta do what he says.”
Asked about the fine line between sending a message and embarrassing a professional player, Boylen offered this response.
“I think your play is embarrassing,” he said. “Me subbing them is saving them maybe. The pro player thing? This is basketball. This is about honoring the game and doing the right things. I worked for Gregg Popovich. He subbed five guys a ton of times. Nobody says a word to him about it.
“He felt that was best for the team. I felt that was best for the team. And that’s what my job is. Embarrassment is not giving the effort in that Bulls uniform. So I put five guys in that I thought could put the effort in.”
In his third game as coach, Boylen yanked starters LaVine, Lauri Markkanen, Wendell Carter Jr., Justin Holiday and Ryan Arcidiacono at the 7 minute, 15 second mark of the first quarter with the Bulls scoreless, down by 13 and 0-for-8.
“You deserve it if you don’t play hard,” Markannen said.
The lineup of Robin Lopez, Jabari Parker, Chandler Hutchison, Shaquille Harrison and Cameron Payne didn’t fare much better. They trailed 17-0 before Parker scored the Bulls’ first points on free throws at the 5:42 mark. Lopez finally made the first field goal after 11 misses at the 5:06 mark.
Then, after the Celtics opened the second half with a modest 5-3 run, Boylen tried the move again. He pulled all five starters at the 9:02 mark of the third, using the same five substitutes.
“It sucks man, sitting there and watching the score go up and up,” LaVine said. “I know we’re competing but you know you can help. And sometimes you don’t feel like you do anything wrong. We got blitzed to come out. Obviously, (Boylen) didn’t like that. That happens in the NBA sometimes. We responded in the second quarter. I don’t know. I do not know. There’s a lot of questions you could ask, but I really don’t know.”
The Celtics led by as many as 58 and were actually beating the Bulls to 50-50 balls and throwing alley-oop dunks on fast breaks down the stretch.
And people thought the blowout loss to the Warriors — a 149-124 home defeat on Oct. 29 — was bad.
“That’s not the standard of our program, to get down like that at home,” Boylen said. “We were just following them around. We were a step slow on everything, mentally and physically. Is it want to? Is it effort? What is it? I don’t know what it is.
“I just wasn’t going to stand for it. I just pulled them together and told them all these people paid the money to see you guys play. And you’re not giving them the effort you gotta give them. It’s disappointing. We need some leadership to step up.”
One potential issue with a five-man substitution is if the reserve group gets blasted, as the Bulls’ did in the second half, where do you turn after that? Backed into a corner, Boylen kept the starters out the final 21:02.
“Why have them play in a game that’s going to be difficult to win when the benefit to me is going to be practice (Sunday) and get better?” he said. “That was all premediated. So I play them more, we lose and then we can’t practice (Sunday)? We double lose. And we don’t have time to do that.”
The first time, Boylen gathered the pulled starters as they came off the court and talked to them. The second time, he didn’t.
Maybe it wouldn’t have mattered — LaVine said he didn’t know what Boylen said the first time.
“I was frustrated,” he said. “I didn’t really get to hear him.”
In a mere six days, Boylen has publicly challenged his team’s toughness and conditioning, moved Parker to a reserve role and held two two-hour-plus practices and a 90-minute shootaround. He also held practices on both off days between games last week, a rarity in December, and scheduled the Sunday practice following a back-to-back set of games with a Monday game looming. That’s also atypical.
At least the starters will be rested for that session and perhaps the more suicide sprints it may entail. No starter logged more than 20 minutes. LaVine actually shot 4-for-6 for 11 points in his mere 18:53 of action. The starters shot 10-for-29 overall.
It also is the largest margin of victory in Celtics history and ties the NBA record for most lopsided victory in a road game.
But Bulls players struggled to understand the second instance, which backfired when the Celtics ran away and hid. That led to Boylen making a — using his word — “premeditated” decision that a competitive Sunday practice would be more beneficial than reinserting the starters, who sat for the final 21 minutes, 2 seconds.
“No, you don’t,” a visibly frustrated LaVine interrupted when asked a longer question about rarely seeing five-man substitutions.
As for LaVine’s reaction to Boylen’s move?
“Um, it is what it is,” LaVine said. “We gotta do what he says.”
Asked about the fine line between sending a message and embarrassing a professional player, Boylen offered this response.
“I think your play is embarrassing,” he said. “Me subbing them is saving them maybe. The pro player thing? This is basketball. This is about honoring the game and doing the right things. I worked for Gregg Popovich. He subbed five guys a ton of times. Nobody says a word to him about it.
“He felt that was best for the team. I felt that was best for the team. And that’s what my job is. Embarrassment is not giving the effort in that Bulls uniform. So I put five guys in that I thought could put the effort in.”
In his third game as coach, Boylen yanked starters LaVine, Lauri Markkanen, Wendell Carter Jr., Justin Holiday and Ryan Arcidiacono at the 7 minute, 15 second mark of the first quarter with the Bulls scoreless, down by 13 and 0-for-8.
“You deserve it if you don’t play hard,” Markannen said.
The lineup of Robin Lopez, Jabari Parker, Chandler Hutchison, Shaquille Harrison and Cameron Payne didn’t fare much better. They trailed 17-0 before Parker scored the Bulls’ first points on free throws at the 5:42 mark. Lopez finally made the first field goal after 11 misses at the 5:06 mark.
Then, after the Celtics opened the second half with a modest 5-3 run, Boylen tried the move again. He pulled all five starters at the 9:02 mark of the third, using the same five substitutes.
“It sucks man, sitting there and watching the score go up and up,” LaVine said. “I know we’re competing but you know you can help. And sometimes you don’t feel like you do anything wrong. We got blitzed to come out. Obviously, (Boylen) didn’t like that. That happens in the NBA sometimes. We responded in the second quarter. I don’t know. I do not know. There’s a lot of questions you could ask, but I really don’t know.”
The Celtics led by as many as 58 and were actually beating the Bulls to 50-50 balls and throwing alley-oop dunks on fast breaks down the stretch.
And people thought the blowout loss to the Warriors — a 149-124 home defeat on Oct. 29 — was bad.
“That’s not the standard of our program, to get down like that at home,” Boylen said. “We were just following them around. We were a step slow on everything, mentally and physically. Is it want to? Is it effort? What is it? I don’t know what it is.
“I just wasn’t going to stand for it. I just pulled them together and told them all these people paid the money to see you guys play. And you’re not giving them the effort you gotta give them. It’s disappointing. We need some leadership to step up.”
One potential issue with a five-man substitution is if the reserve group gets blasted, as the Bulls’ did in the second half, where do you turn after that? Backed into a corner, Boylen kept the starters out the final 21:02.
“Why have them play in a game that’s going to be difficult to win when the benefit to me is going to be practice (Sunday) and get better?” he said. “That was all premediated. So I play them more, we lose and then we can’t practice (Sunday)? We double lose. And we don’t have time to do that.”
The first time, Boylen gathered the pulled starters as they came off the court and talked to them. The second time, he didn’t.
Maybe it wouldn’t have mattered — LaVine said he didn’t know what Boylen said the first time.
“I was frustrated,” he said. “I didn’t really get to hear him.”
In a mere six days, Boylen has publicly challenged his team’s toughness and conditioning, moved Parker to a reserve role and held two two-hour-plus practices and a 90-minute shootaround. He also held practices on both off days between games last week, a rarity in December, and scheduled the Sunday practice following a back-to-back set of games with a Monday game looming. That’s also atypical.
At least the starters will be rested for that session and perhaps the more suicide sprints it may entail. No starter logged more than 20 minutes. LaVine actually shot 4-for-6 for 11 points in his mere 18:53 of action. The starters shot 10-for-29 overall.
blueline
EOG Master
The Fred Hoiberg firing continues to take on a life of its own, especially under the national-media microscope.
The facile storyline is that Hoiberg lost the locker room even though players — Bobby Portis being the latest Saturday — continue to shoot that angle down.
But management has let that perception become reality — with good reason.
Multiple sources say Hoiberg didn’t lose the locker room; the problem was his relationship with general manager Gar Forman.
According to sources, Hoiberg was approached by several key players, including Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade, during the 2016-17 playoff season and told that they didn’t want Forman around or as part of the traveling party because they didn’t trust him.
According to one player, Forman was even trying to draw up plays for the team “that looked straight out of some high school [expletive], man.’’
Wanting to do right by his players, Hoiberg took the complaints above Forman. When Forman heard about it, he wanted to remove Hoiberg from his post immediately.
Coincidentally, it was during that time that Forman was no longer around the team like he had been in the past, and he also stopped being the public face with the media.
Forman was dissuaded from following through, especially with the amount of money still owed to Hoiberg, but the feeling was that he was just waiting for the right opportunity to push the button.
It came last weekend, even blindsiding Hoiberg with the timing.
Hoiberg realized he was under scrutiny, but at least he would have Lauri Markkanen (right elbow) back as well as Kris Dunn (left knee) and Portis (right knee).
But vice president of basketball operations John Paxson insisted the team was lacking “spirit and energy.’
The facile storyline is that Hoiberg lost the locker room even though players — Bobby Portis being the latest Saturday — continue to shoot that angle down.
But management has let that perception become reality — with good reason.
Multiple sources say Hoiberg didn’t lose the locker room; the problem was his relationship with general manager Gar Forman.
According to sources, Hoiberg was approached by several key players, including Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade, during the 2016-17 playoff season and told that they didn’t want Forman around or as part of the traveling party because they didn’t trust him.
According to one player, Forman was even trying to draw up plays for the team “that looked straight out of some high school [expletive], man.’’
Wanting to do right by his players, Hoiberg took the complaints above Forman. When Forman heard about it, he wanted to remove Hoiberg from his post immediately.
Coincidentally, it was during that time that Forman was no longer around the team like he had been in the past, and he also stopped being the public face with the media.
Forman was dissuaded from following through, especially with the amount of money still owed to Hoiberg, but the feeling was that he was just waiting for the right opportunity to push the button.
It came last weekend, even blindsiding Hoiberg with the timing.
Hoiberg realized he was under scrutiny, but at least he would have Lauri Markkanen (right elbow) back as well as Kris Dunn (left knee) and Portis (right knee).
But vice president of basketball operations John Paxson insisted the team was lacking “spirit and energy.’
FairWarning
Bells Beer Connoisseur
The Bulls are run just like Jerry’s White Sox. He’s loyal to his front office the most. I’ll never forget the Jerry Krause comment that belittled the Jordan Bulls that organizations win titles, not players. That reflects the Bulls the most.
Jerry Reinsdorf is 82.
When he's gone, I assume the family will sell the White Sox and keep the Bulls?
When he's gone, I assume the family will sell the White Sox and keep the Bulls?
FairWarning
Bells Beer Connoisseur
I think so
FairWarning
Bells Beer Connoisseur
These players are so soft.
The organization just had 13 people in their travel party get Montezuma's Revenge after the trip to Mexico City last week. You aren't playing in Cabo or Cancun; Mexico City is a very old city and you cannot trust the water purification in Mexico City. Wouldn't bringing along an ample supply of bottled water be an important priority?