Alternative onside kick at Pro Bowl

[jimmythegreek]

NFL to experiment with alternative to onside kick at Pro Bowl

Kevin Seifert ESPN Staff Writer

The NFL will experiment with an alternative to the onside kick during Sunday's Pro Bowl, an indication that the league is still considering the option despite the fact that owners rejected it last year.

As in past years, there will be no kickoffs at all in the Pro Bowl. The twist this year is that teams will have two options after scoring.

The first is to give the ball back to the opposition, which would start its drive at its 25-yard line. The new, second option for the scoring team would serve as a substitute for an onside kick. It would allow it to run one additional play from its own 25-yard line.

If the scoring team gains 15 or more yards, it would retain possession. If it falls short, the opposition would take over at the dead ball spot. Essentially, it will be a fourth-and-15 play.

Onside kicks have been more difficult to recover since the NFL's 2018 overhaul of the kickoff. Among other changes, the new rule prevented the kickoff team from getting a running start before the kick. Onside kick recoveries dropped from the league's historic rate of about 21% through the 2017 season to 7.7% in 2018 and 12.9% in 2019.

The Denver Broncos proposed a similar change last winter, but owners voted it down in March. The NFL does not always adopt Pro Bowl rule changes, but the presence of the onside kick alternative is an indication that at least some league decision-makers would like to see it in action.

Also this year, Pro Bowl officials will be instructed to use a different standard for false start penalties on receivers who are flexed from the line of scrimmage. It will not be a false start if a receiver flinches or lifts one foot off the ground, provided he re-sets for one second and/or keeps one foot on the ground.

 

[Sportsrmylife]

I like it a lot.

 

[kane]

It's a bad idea, and I'll explain why. Right now under the current rules every team has an equal chance at recovering the kick, the Chiefs and Bengals both have about the same odds of recovering an onsides kick, but under the new proposed rules the Chiefs would have a huge advantage over the Bengals since gaining 15 yards in one play is something the Chiefs will do at a much higher rate than the Bengals. Basically it gives an unfair advantage to teams with a great passing game, a team like Houston would have a much better chance than a team like Buffalo. If the Saints were playing the Jaguars which team would have the advantage? And it doesn't just help the better team, the new rule helps the team with the better passing game since the odds of running for 15 yards is very slim, if Tampa Bay was playing SF, of course SF is the better team, but the Buccs would have the advantage under the new rules, how many 15 yard passes has Winston completed this year compared to Jimmy G. If they want to change the onsides kick, they need to come up with something that's fair for all teams, not a rule that gives an unfair advantage to the better passing teams.

 

[kane]

If the league wants to change a rule, how about changing the rule when a team is punting they can commit penalties and the clock keeps running, the thing Vrabel did to NE, and another team did it this past weekend, I think it was SF. I don't understand how an offensive team can take a delay of game penalty while punting, then get a motion penalty, and the clock doesn't stop

 

[Valuist]

The dumbest rule in the NFL has to be the touchback on a ball fumbled thru the end zone. Have you ever heard anyone say that makes sense? Assuming the possession is lost is just idiotic.

They also should eliminate most of the Thursday games. Opening week Thursday night is ok. Thanksgiving games are a tradition. This year, the Cowboys and Bears played the Thursday after T-Giving, but both played on T-Giving day so both were on normal rest. But these stand alone games are big money makers, so any talk of player safety is strictly lip service on behalf of the league.

Lastly, don't ever go to the moronic college overtime rules. I'm not sure what game that is but it is only some derivative of football.

 

[kane]

The dumbest rule in the NFL has to be the touchback on a ball fumbled thru the end zone. Have you ever heard anyone say that makes sense? Assuming the possession is lost is just idiotic.

They also should eliminate most of the Thursday games. Opening week Thursday night is ok. Thanksgiving games are a tradition. This year, the Cowboys and Bears played the Thursday after T-Giving, but both played on T-Giving day so both were on normal rest. But these stand alone games are big money makers, so any talk of player safety is strictly lip service on behalf of the league.

Lastly, don't ever go to the moronic college overtime rules. I'm not sure what game that is but it is only some derivative of football.

100% agree with everything you posted. Playing on Thursdays is crazy, I have no idea how these guys get their bodies ready to play 3 days playing a game, of course the league makes too much money off those games so they'll never get rid of them. I also hate the fumbled ball through the end zone touchback, an offensive player is close to the goal line, so he reaches the ball out to try and touch the pylon or break the plane, loses control of the ball, it goes out of bounds on the side and the other team gets it at their 20, I fucking hate that. What they should do in that situation is allow the offense to keep possession, but instead of having it at the goal line, put them on the opponents 20, this way they still maintain possession, and the penalty isn't nearly as severe as losing it. I think the current OT rules are just fine, I know some people think both teams should get a possession, and I can see their point, but imo if you allow the other team to get the kickoff, march down field and stick it in the end zone, you probably deserve to lose

 

[Sportsrmylife]

If the league wants to change a rule, how about changing the rule when a team is punting they can commit penalties and the clock keeps running, the thing Vrabel did to NE, and another team did it this past weekend, I think it was SF. I don't understand how an offensive team can take a delay of game penalty while punting, then get a motion penalty, and the clock doesn't stop

I am a bit amazed that no team exploits this to the max. Say you have a 4th and 5 the opponents 40 yard line. Why wouldn't you simply take delay of games until the ball is on your 40 which would be four penalties but 4 x 40 seconds which would be two minutes and 40 seconds off the clock. That is a monster amount of time.

Now I don't know exactly when the penalty stops the clock but until that time teams could shrink the game by simply standing on the field.

 

[Sportsrmylife]

It's a bad idea, and I'll explain why. Right now under the current rules every team has an equal chance at recovering the kick, the Chiefs and Bengals both have about the same odds of recovering an onsides kick, but under the new proposed rules the Chiefs would have a huge advantage over the Bengals since gaining 15 yards in one play is something the Chiefs will do at a much higher rate than the Bengals. Basically it gives an unfair advantage to teams with a great passing game, a team like Houston would have a much better chance than a team like Buffalo. If the Saints were playing the Jaguars which team would have the advantage? And it doesn't just help the better team, the new rule helps the team with the better passing game since the odds of running for 15 yards is very slim, if Tampa Bay was playing SF, of course SF is the better team, but the Buccs would have the advantage under the new rules, how many 15 yard passes has Winston completed this year compared to Jimmy G. If they want to change the onsides kick, they need to come up with something that's fair for all teams, not a rule that gives an unfair advantage to the better passing teams.

I disagree with your thoughts simply because this "advantage scenario" could easily be applied to when they moved the extra point back as this gave an edge to the team with the better kicker.

You could argue this new onside kick gives the advantage to the teams with better pass defenses.

The idea that tampa has more 15 yard completions is misleading because the defense isn't defending a play that requires 15 yards. Many of these big plays could be coming in short yardage situations.

The new 4th and 15 onside play allows the defense to completely understand the situation.

I would like to see the NFL conversion rates of 4th and 15 plays over the last five years. I would not look at 3rd down stats from the idea that if a team is going to go for it on 4th down then picking up yards is more important then getting all the yards in one play.

 

[Sportsrmylife]

The dumbest rule in the NFL has to be the touchback on a ball fumbled thru the end zone. Have you ever heard anyone say that makes sense? Assuming the possession is lost is just idiotic.

They also should eliminate most of the Thursday games. Opening week Thursday night is ok. Thanksgiving games are a tradition. This year, the Cowboys and Bears played the Thursday after T-Giving, but both played on T-Giving day so both were on normal rest. But these stand alone games are big money makers, so any talk of player safety is strictly lip service on behalf of the league.

Lastly, don't ever go to the moronic college overtime rules. I'm not sure what game that is but it is only some derivative of football.

100% agree with the touchback on a fumble. That needs to be changed.

I like the Thursday night games but I would change the schedule. If you play on a Thursday these teams have to be coming off a bye. That gives them time to recover from previous game and them gives them an extended break after.

I think teams would be more than happy to play on Thursdays with this change as you are getting plenty of time to heal instead of this "short week" BS.

Also if this is changed we could have double headers on Thursday nights. An early east coast game followed by a west coast game.

 

[Sportsrmylife]

100% agree with everything you posted. Playing on Thursdays is crazy, I have no idea how these guys get their bodies ready to play 3 days playing a game, of course the league makes too much money off those games so they'll never get rid of them. I also hate the fumbled ball through the end zone touchback, an offensive player is close to the goal line, so he reaches the ball out to try and touch the pylon or break the plane, loses control of the ball, it goes out of bounds on the side and the other team gets it at their 20, I fucking hate that. What they should do in that situation is allow the offense to keep possession, but instead of having it at the goal line, put them on the opponents 20, this way they still maintain possession, and the penalty isn't nearly as severe as losing it. I think the current OT rules are just fine, I know some people think both teams should get a possession, and I can see their point, but imo if you allow the other team to get the kickoff, march down field and stick it in the end zone, you probably deserve to lose

I like your touchback idea. It would still eliminate the kenny stabler fumble the ball forward situation and but the idea of losing possession because a fumble hits the pylon instead of going out at the 6 inch line is so stupid.

 

[kane]

I disagree with your thoughts simply because this "advantage scenario" could easily be applied to when they moved the extra point back as this gave an edge to the team with the better kicker.

You could argue this new onside kick gives the advantage to the teams with better pass defenses.

The idea that tampa has more 15 yard completions is misleading because the defense isn't defending a play that requires 15 yards. Many of these big plays could be coming in short yardage situations.

The new 4th and 15 onside play allows the defense to completely understand the situation.

I would like to see the NFL conversion rates of 4th and 15 plays over the last five years. I would not look at 3rd down stats from the idea that if a team is going to go for it on 4th down then picking up yards is more important then getting all the yards in one play.

You make some good points, but when you say the new rule would be beneficial to teams with good pass defenses, you're right, which is another reason why the new rule is unfair, it helps the teams with the better passing offenses and also helps the teams with the better pass defenses. Picture a scenario where KC is facing a team with a bad pass defense, that would give the Chiefs a big advantage. If the idea is to give the offense a better chance of recovering an onsides kick, then instead of the ball having to go 10 yards, change it to 7 yards, that would give the kicking team a better chance. I'm not saying I have all the answers, it just seems to easy for a QB like Mahomes to complete a 15 yard pass and his team gains possession