Anyone know if Dave Cokin has a Lifetime Record Anywhere?
- Thread starter Joeflex
- Start date
BOL with this one Joe!!
Not sure you're gonna get what you're looking for though.
Not sure you're gonna get what you're looking for though.
Hey Joeflex. The touts worst enemy and exposer of accurate records.
Would be hard to get a complete record due to the different clubs and 900 lines NSS promotes. You may try one of the big consensus services for at least a glimpse at what he does.
I doubt though that the plays NSS markets end up being the games Dave bets. Just a hunch but I have been told his numbers (power ratings) are some of the strongest around. I don't think the service records reflect that.
It is clear from his first two writeups that he is a sharp guy. So I guess the proof will be in the pudding this year so to speak.
I hope the tout bashers can put aside his affiliations so he will stay on board not just to give picks but have some interaction with the board. He has a lot of knowledge and I am sure we can all benefit from it. However if he gets flamed to the point that he just gives picks and leaves we will be the losers.
Would be hard to get a complete record due to the different clubs and 900 lines NSS promotes. You may try one of the big consensus services for at least a glimpse at what he does.
I doubt though that the plays NSS markets end up being the games Dave bets. Just a hunch but I have been told his numbers (power ratings) are some of the strongest around. I don't think the service records reflect that.
It is clear from his first two writeups that he is a sharp guy. So I guess the proof will be in the pudding this year so to speak.
I hope the tout bashers can put aside his affiliations so he will stay on board not just to give picks but have some interaction with the board. He has a lot of knowledge and I am sure we can all benefit from it. However if he gets flamed to the point that he just gives picks and leaves we will be the losers.
lifetime he is
(129,089 - 98,678) + 3879 units:+clueless
(129,089 - 98,678) + 3879 units:+clueless
Romanowski said:
Close, I had him at 129,089 - 98, 679 +3878 units.... :+textinb3
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
He soon could be 2-0 lifetime at the EOG. Does that matter in this what have you done for me lately world?
Best wishes...OF :+clueless
Best wishes...OF :+clueless
Mr Cokin:
Any idea as to your record? Is it officially kept anywhere?
Resumes and titles are fun, and 34-13 on a radio is interesting, but really, all of this is a small piece of the puzzle. My unscientific guess is that, when you've been doing this for as long as you have, 99% of the puzzle is your record. Is this kept anywhere officially? How about unofficially? I'd like to get some more info if that's possible. Thank you.
Joeflex
Any idea as to your record? Is it officially kept anywhere?
Resumes and titles are fun, and 34-13 on a radio is interesting, but really, all of this is a small piece of the puzzle. My unscientific guess is that, when you've been doing this for as long as you have, 99% of the puzzle is your record. Is this kept anywhere officially? How about unofficially? I'd like to get some more info if that's possible. Thank you.
Joeflex
husker,
If you were offered 300k per year to do that, what would you HONESTLY do?
If you were offered 300k per year to do that, what would you HONESTLY do?
joe67
EOG Enthusiast
I am really confused on this, I have been wagering for ten years, full time now for three years, and have bought picks and met alot of the people mentioned,here in vegas and in tahoe and I there is no way someone like cokin and culver should be mentioned in the same breath like people like wayne root with his boiler plate phone scams,his outrageous packages, his phone tactics. can you imagine if the shrink were to come on here and say "eog proudly announces the arrival of wayne root",this forum would cease to function as little more than a venting of anger towards that lizard.
But root wont come on here because he doesn't care, he'll sell his books and plan his his mayoral race for vegas and eventual presidency and rise to american emperor all the while selling 500$ ,millionaire club ,and chairman club, and sub club picks that lose. , the fact that guys like cokin and culver have come on here and the enemies and haters have not been crawling out of the woodwork says something about these guys and the way they have treated people. which has always been well.noone has come on here saying cokin or culver strong armed them or deceived them or treated them poorly or anything of that nature.For as long as dave cokin has been doing this, that is amazing.
Some people hate touts and thats that, I dont care as long people treat me well , I dont care about somebody being on a tv show , its how you treat people that leaves an impression and cokin always treated me well and was professional wherever he was working.
But root wont come on here because he doesn't care, he'll sell his books and plan his his mayoral race for vegas and eventual presidency and rise to american emperor all the while selling 500$ ,millionaire club ,and chairman club, and sub club picks that lose. , the fact that guys like cokin and culver have come on here and the enemies and haters have not been crawling out of the woodwork says something about these guys and the way they have treated people. which has always been well.noone has come on here saying cokin or culver strong armed them or deceived them or treated them poorly or anything of that nature.For as long as dave cokin has been doing this, that is amazing.
Some people hate touts and thats that, I dont care as long people treat me well , I dont care about somebody being on a tv show , its how you treat people that leaves an impression and cokin always treated me well and was professional wherever he was working.
More importantly JoeFlex ... what is your lifetime record?
The Shrink
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Romanowski
lifetime he is
(129,089 - 98,678) + 3879 units:+clueless
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Close, I had him at 129,089 - 98, 679 +3878 units.... :+textinb3
***
Looks like we have a job for Joeflex...
Research that and give us an actual reading...
Lord knows the hell that would rain down upon us all should a record be posted incorrectly...
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Romanowski
lifetime he is
(129,089 - 98,678) + 3879 units:+clueless
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Close, I had him at 129,089 - 98, 679 +3878 units.... :+textinb3
***
Looks like we have a job for Joeflex...
Research that and give us an actual reading...
Lord knows the hell that would rain down upon us all should a record be posted incorrectly...
I can see both sides of this issue..........but if you work with guys like Fiest and NSS be prepared for what comes along with it.
I dont really care what they pay you...they are still crooked.......How is Jim Feist much different than Wayne Root........in fact .......did'nt they just go into business together???
If you dont think Fiest's operation is a boiler room type of operation......just call them, tell them you are interested and then see how much you are hasseled.
I dont really care what they pay you...they are still crooked.......How is Jim Feist much different than Wayne Root........in fact .......did'nt they just go into business together???
If you dont think Fiest's operation is a boiler room type of operation......just call them, tell them you are interested and then see how much you are hasseled.
Austin
2
About all that matters. As for the past, I've known guys who won right and left back when and today they're no where. Btw Frog, must have been quite an honor when ID proclaimed you and her as most alike in posting styles. I hear she also likes to get rubbed for luck after big wins. Word is she kicks it with a fifth of Southern Comfort though. Still, I'm starting to see the similarities. (jk)OMNIVOROUS FROG said:
(OF, bring the NBA home for EOG. GL.)
husker
EOG Addicted
THE SHRINK said:husker,
If you were offered 300k per year to do that, what would you HONESTLY do?
what you are saying is its ok to offer different "clubs" to mislead people into thinking you win all the time if you are making a lot of money? then people bet over their heads thinking they are going to win. is what the executives at Enron did ok because they were offered a lot of money?
to answer your question, i really don't think i could go on tv and intentionally misleade people knowing it could cause big problems for people.
Joeflex said:
No offense taken, Joe. I was monitored throughout the 1980's and into the early 1990's by the AADSS. I liked their format, which was really simple. Each service was given a mythical 10K bankroll at the start of the season in each sport (college hoops, NBA, college football, NFL and MLB). One entry per service (no multiples for different levels of selections). Most money at season's end wins. Period.
In that time frame, I won more titles than anyone else. Whether this can be verified or not, I don't know. The people who ran the organization were Marty Mendelsohn and then John Hodges, and sadly, neither is with us any longer. I believe the AADSS still exists, so perhaps you can contact them and find out how far back their records go.
I'll answer the obvious question before it's asked. I made the decision to stop being monitored for one key reason. I did not like the fact that services were now able to enter these contests using as many different levels of service as they wanted. This would enable a service to, for instance, amass a really good record on one particular level and claim a #1 documentation. I understand why this was a good thing for the monitor...it meant more revenue and like anyone, they're in business to make profits. But in terms of determining who actually was having the best season, I found it pretty pointless.
This process greatly reduced any significance that might be attached to being rated #1. If there are a whole bunch of services that can legitimately claim to have the top ranking, then who's to know what's what? In essence, it became like boxing. Once upon a time, boxing had eight world champions, one per division and that's it. Now, the sport has 18 divisions, at least four recognized sanctioning organizations (not to mention several more of the fringe variety) and there isn't a person on the planet who can name them all. The removal of virtually all significance to these titles has rendered the sport to minor status. The only people who attach value to these titles are those in the fight game. The fans don't give a hoot. I believe the sports service industry suffers the same fate in that at one time there was a great deal of prestige to winning a handicapping title, and there isn't anymore. Not when there are so many titles available.
As for what my complete record is from 1981-2006, I haven't got the slightest idea. I can only tell you that I've been fortunate enough to grind out consistent profits. And there's been the occasional dream season in a particular sport where I get really hot and stay that way virtually the entire campaign. I've been able to avoid disaster overall, although obviously, there have been stretches where I feel as though I'm an idiot who will never have another winning night. But with the methodology I utilize, I'm pretty confident that I'm generally going to be okay.*
Hopefully, this answers your question to some extent, Joe.
(*The exception to this rule is when I have any underdog in overtime, football or basketball. If I'm not the most blasphemous individual on the entire planet during these events, I'm surely in the Top 10. This is why I should NEVER be in a crowded restaurant while a game I have action on is taking place, assuming the presence of a TV within my sightline. The recent San Antonio-Dallas Game Four matchup was the most recent occurence. I'd like to offer an apology to diners who happened to be within earshot of that monologue, which went on for approximately ten minutes. Personally, I consider myself to be very creative in this particular endeavor, but I understand how it can be pretty traumatic for children and/or pets, many of whom I've seen ushered quickly out of the room when I get started.)
husker said:
I am not here at EOG to debate what's right or wrong with the sports service industry, nor any personal philosophies on the subject. So I'll cover this once, and that's the end of it for me. Some of you may understand and agree with what I'll offer, some may not. That's cool, it's still a (mostly) free country and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
First, I've been doing radio/TV for about 19 years now. I'll challenge anyone to come up with even one instance where I've EVER been guilty of "intentionally misleading" people into thinking I win all the time. If I advertise a package on TV show and it flops, I invariably mention this the following week. The same holds true for everyone else on our show. So your contention that we are "misleading" people is totally false. As far as advertising the current week's promotion with confidence, I can't see where there can be any fault with that. Nor do I see anything wrong with highlighting positive achievements.
Next, "people bet over their heads thinking they are going to win." I feel confident about the plays I release, but it's still gambling. Anyone who thinks a game I sell can't lose is stupid, plain and simple. It's gambling. Feel free to blast me the next time I offer a "lock" game. Never have, never will. Nor has anyone else in the history of our show. I can't help it if someone bets over their head. This is not something I have any control over. I'm sure it happens on occasion. But you're assigining the blame to the wrong party. It isn't Budweiser's fault if some nitwit drinks two six packs and then gets behind the wheel of a car. It's the guy who drank the product. I can't and won't be responsible for a bettor who wagers irresponsibly.
Finally, there's the different "clubs". As for the varying levels of service, this industry is no different than every service-oriented industry in the business world. That's why there are Wal-Marts and that's why there are Sax Fifth Avenues. That's why there are Sizzzlers and Ruth's Chris Steak Houses. That's why every car manufacturer has all different types of cars with different price tags. That's why first class costs more than coach. You name the enterprise, I'll cite you the different levels available. Sports services are no different. So, I'm sorry, but the old "everyone should get everything for the same price" argument doesn't wash. Not in this business nor in any other.
I think that about covers it.
husker
EOG Addicted
dave, you are exactly right about the monitors and the services that use them like they do. about having different "clubs" it is only to say that something won the previous week. that is MUCH different than a car manufacturer making different kinds of cars. they dont do it because if one gets recalled they have another to promote, this is a week argument.
in the end time will tell.
in the end time will tell.
Reload
2
I can agree there are varying levels of products and services with anything. But where I feel people lose respect for touts is when customers get hustled to buy into the higher level clubs. You suck people in with a free 1-2 days of plays or the $19 three day package, and from there they get black-holed into buying more. That's when the marketing and sales overshadows the actual handicapping within the business. It's no different from the Don Lapre and Tom Vu types of black hole marketing cons they have pulled.
But hopefully we can forget about the touting end of things and benefit from Dave's insight on this site. Many people out there respect Dave and I'm willing to separate that from thinking about the evil sides of the business.
But hopefully we can forget about the touting end of things and benefit from Dave's insight on this site. Many people out there respect Dave and I'm willing to separate that from thinking about the evil sides of the business.
joe67
EOG Enthusiast
there are some good points on here but there is an enormous difference between dave cokin and an organization like wayne root and winning edge . the club system and the whole operation set up by root is just plain and simply bad business.outdated boiler room garbage.telephone strong arm tactics,and the club system is set up like some bizarre pyramid scheme,the chairmans club is worthless, so buy the whole package,well, why put out a chairmans club pick if you have no faith in it. they hound you on the phone and the whole thing is so pathetic it reminds me of gambling in my dads day back in the 1980s.
sports wagering is going to be huge like poker,it already is,and people like root are going to be left behind with business structures like that.if feist is like that then hopefully dave will move on,I dont know about feists site.I have never used it.
I realize handicappers need sites to sell there picks ,I love the don best site, or covers with their money back guarantee and excellent customer service and there are loads of others out there. I have not used the feist site so I cant say what its like but I have talked to dave on radio shows and met him at the stardust and I can tell you he is a straight up guy, and when I have bought picks from dave the customer service was excellent at the places I bought them at .
as far as daves clubs,whatever,as long as he has faith in all of them ,and I have won on every level of his picks back when I purchased picks alot. Thats fine with me to have different levels as long as they are not shoved down your throat and they are not used as bait . Everyone has a different level of picks and ones they feel more strongly about, even on here at this forum.ultimately some people just dont like touts and thats fine,but I feel we are lucky to have dave here. no one has come on here complaining about dave personally or airing grievances with the man, and after being in this biz for as long as he has that is amazing. if wayne root were to come on here this place would overflow with disgust. I am glad cokin is here.
sports wagering is going to be huge like poker,it already is,and people like root are going to be left behind with business structures like that.if feist is like that then hopefully dave will move on,I dont know about feists site.I have never used it.
I realize handicappers need sites to sell there picks ,I love the don best site, or covers with their money back guarantee and excellent customer service and there are loads of others out there. I have not used the feist site so I cant say what its like but I have talked to dave on radio shows and met him at the stardust and I can tell you he is a straight up guy, and when I have bought picks from dave the customer service was excellent at the places I bought them at .
as far as daves clubs,whatever,as long as he has faith in all of them ,and I have won on every level of his picks back when I purchased picks alot. Thats fine with me to have different levels as long as they are not shoved down your throat and they are not used as bait . Everyone has a different level of picks and ones they feel more strongly about, even on here at this forum.ultimately some people just dont like touts and thats fine,but I feel we are lucky to have dave here. no one has come on here complaining about dave personally or airing grievances with the man, and after being in this biz for as long as he has that is amazing. if wayne root were to come on here this place would overflow with disgust. I am glad cokin is here.
The General
Another Day, Another Dollar
lemonhead said:
I have no opinion on the rx since I do not work there anylonger, but I assure you that this forum will not become a flameground nor will it become a promotion room for touts either.
I wish all of you the best. Let's just share some picks and hope to come out ahead financially in the end.
:cheers
Thanks General. I know you officially have no position on the other tout phobic board. Anytime you can get someone with close to 30 years of handicapping experience you can learn. Being able to listen to Alan Boston this past year and hear how he went through his analysis was very educational.
When Dave was on before I got a real sense that he was much like the rest of us and wanted to interact. He just never got the chance. I personally don't care if he hits 30% or 50%. The value as Alan Boston said last year is not in the picks themselves but in the rationale used to make the selections. If I can gleen 1 or 2 things from his experience that helps me become a better handicapper then I am happy. If I like his logic I may tail a play or two but I will never follow blindly. That is a lesson I learned long ago.
I actually have a lot of respect for joeflex. He is extremely thorough with his records and brutally honest. I have no problem with what he asked. It was a legitimate question. But I was concerned about the anti-touts running off Dave before the football season.
When Dave was on before I got a real sense that he was much like the rest of us and wanted to interact. He just never got the chance. I personally don't care if he hits 30% or 50%. The value as Alan Boston said last year is not in the picks themselves but in the rationale used to make the selections. If I can gleen 1 or 2 things from his experience that helps me become a better handicapper then I am happy. If I like his logic I may tail a play or two but I will never follow blindly. That is a lesson I learned long ago.
I actually have a lot of respect for joeflex. He is extremely thorough with his records and brutally honest. I have no problem with what he asked. It was a legitimate question. But I was concerned about the anti-touts running off Dave before the football season.
The General
Another Day, Another Dollar
lemonhead, I am glad you are here. You seem to be a pretty level headed person. I am actually very novice to the tout business. I have never followed or studied that side of the industry much at all.
MarinersFan
EOG Member
I think the proof is in the pudding, his first 3 days of analysis were and are bang on no matter if they won or not, although he is 2-0,they were correct,good reading and very informative, what more can you ask for.
To have someone on this site as knowledgeable as Dave can only benefit us all as bettors and improve the site immensely.
Welcome aboard Dave and thank you for your insight and picks sir.:cheers
To have someone on this site as knowledgeable as Dave can only benefit us all as bettors and improve the site immensely.
Welcome aboard Dave and thank you for your insight and picks sir.:cheers
Hey Lemonhead
Thanks for the kudos, you must know me from elsewhere. I'm interested in a couple things you said.
"You may try one of the big consensus services for at least a glimpse at what he does."
I'm relatively new to the industry and I don't even know what you're talking about here. Would like to learn about this
"I doubt though that the plays NSS markets end up being the games Dave bets. Just a hunch but I have been told his numbers (power ratings) are some of the strongest around. I don't think the service records reflect that."
Also curious about this.
Joeflex
Thanks for the kudos, you must know me from elsewhere. I'm interested in a couple things you said.
"You may try one of the big consensus services for at least a glimpse at what he does."
I'm relatively new to the industry and I don't even know what you're talking about here. Would like to learn about this
"I doubt though that the plays NSS markets end up being the games Dave bets. Just a hunch but I have been told his numbers (power ratings) are some of the strongest around. I don't think the service records reflect that."
Also curious about this.
Joeflex
As far as the monitoring service that Mr. Cokin said review him in the 1980's and 1990's, AADSS does not exist anymore. That's unfortunate.
So all there is to go on is anecdotal advice and a couple hundred picks from radio which likely represent a fraction of a percent of his total picks. Even some of the people I respect as sharp seem to value Cokin's opinions, but IMO that's really not enough.
Resumes and titles don't make great cappers. Winning picks over many trials do and as far as Cokin is concerned, we're in the great unknown of whether he has these or not. It is disappointing to see once again, the equivalent of the dog ate my records.
Joeflex
So all there is to go on is anecdotal advice and a couple hundred picks from radio which likely represent a fraction of a percent of his total picks. Even some of the people I respect as sharp seem to value Cokin's opinions, but IMO that's really not enough.
Resumes and titles don't make great cappers. Winning picks over many trials do and as far as Cokin is concerned, we're in the great unknown of whether he has these or not. It is disappointing to see once again, the equivalent of the dog ate my records.
Joeflex
Best of luck Dave.
Hey Joe
Yes I know you and you know me too.
Consensus services resell picks of other sports services. A lot of them keep good records.
The 2nd part was purely speculation on my part. Making picks for a large company like NSS can cause certain well .... dilemas. Things like deadlines, requirements for a certain number of plays, having to make picks on games of national interest and more can all impact overall performance. Thats part of being in the business. Doesn't have anything to do with handicapping or handicapping ability though.
As it was said ... the proof is in the pudding.
You should post more often here Joe. The interaction you get here will give you a different perspective than you get other places. And we would all benefit from your perspective.
:cheers
Yes I know you and you know me too.
Consensus services resell picks of other sports services. A lot of them keep good records.
The 2nd part was purely speculation on my part. Making picks for a large company like NSS can cause certain well .... dilemas. Things like deadlines, requirements for a certain number of plays, having to make picks on games of national interest and more can all impact overall performance. Thats part of being in the business. Doesn't have anything to do with handicapping or handicapping ability though.
As it was said ... the proof is in the pudding.
You should post more often here Joe. The interaction you get here will give you a different perspective than you get other places. And we would all benefit from your perspective.
:cheers
Well check out Cokin's line movement on his first 3 picks. These closing lines are guestimattes as to where Pinny closed using Donbest's standard CRIS closing line:
Milw +125 closed +111
Phil -145 closed -154
Min -115 right now -126
Cokin you Rock!!!! Yeah baby!!!! You are the MAN!!!
Joeflex
Milw +125 closed +111
Phil -145 closed -154
Min -115 right now -126
Cokin you Rock!!!! Yeah baby!!!! You are the MAN!!!
Joeflex