Horseshoe Hammond set to debut sports betting on September 4.
Indiana goes live this Sunday.
That's the 12th state to offer legalized sports betting
Indiana goes live this Sunday.
That's the 12th state to offer legalized sports betting
Arlington Park
- Thread starter CHARLIEPEETE
- Start date
blueline
EOG Master
For Hawthorne, it will mean the resumption of its spring-summer harness meet, an extended session that was suspended in the wake of official acknowledgment of the COVID-19 pandemic in March.
At Fairmount, near East St. Louis, horsemen are expected to saddle their thoroughbreds in the afternoon for the first time since March 17.
Both tracks have kept their backstretches open throughout the disruption.
But at Arlington, it's nothing but whackable weeds and the echoes of hollow words as the legacied oval continues its fade deeper into pronounced uncertainty.
Had management been positioned to open the AP backstretch on April 10 -- as initially OK'd by parent Churchill Downs Inc. -- the track would be set to begin its 2020 schedule sometime in June.
Instead, the backside is locked and empty, many regular seasonal trainers are scattered to operating tracks elsewhere, and all racing department personnel remain furloughed.
At the May meeting of the Illinois Racing Board last Friday, AP facilities veteran Anthony Petrillo puppeted that the track's business model would not allow "spectator-free" racing.
Arlington also has no contract with the Illinois Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association to run this summer.
At Fairmount, near East St. Louis, horsemen are expected to saddle their thoroughbreds in the afternoon for the first time since March 17.
Both tracks have kept their backstretches open throughout the disruption.
But at Arlington, it's nothing but whackable weeds and the echoes of hollow words as the legacied oval continues its fade deeper into pronounced uncertainty.
Had management been positioned to open the AP backstretch on April 10 -- as initially OK'd by parent Churchill Downs Inc. -- the track would be set to begin its 2020 schedule sometime in June.
Instead, the backside is locked and empty, many regular seasonal trainers are scattered to operating tracks elsewhere, and all racing department personnel remain furloughed.
At the May meeting of the Illinois Racing Board last Friday, AP facilities veteran Anthony Petrillo puppeted that the track's business model would not allow "spectator-free" racing.
Arlington also has no contract with the Illinois Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association to run this summer.
Chi_Archie
EOG Veteran
No fans at Hawthorne is a new mandate?
That policy has been in place for the last 20 years.
That policy has been in place for the last 20 years.
WildBill
2
And yet many of you clowns still giving business to Churchill for no apparent reason.
https://www.dailyherald.com/amp-article/20200731/sports/200739839/
https://www.dailyherald.com/amp-article/20200731/sports/200739839/
Viejo Dinosaur
EOG Master
This weekend should have been EOGs get together at Arlington Park....
Going to be a Zoom meeting.
blueline
EOG Master
Barry Rozner
For anyone who has followed horse racing closely the last few decades, Thursday's news was hardly a surprise.
But it was no less devastating.
During an investor earnings call, Churchill Downs Inc. -- which owns Arlington Park -- dropped a bomb on local horse racing fans. As reported by the Daily Herald's Christopher Placek, CDI boss Bill Carstanjen no longer sounded like a man threatening the future of the Arlington Heights palace.
He made it crystal clear that the Local Oval has no future in hosting ponies.
"The long-term solution is not Arlington Park," Carstanjen said. "That land will have a higher and better purpose for something else at some point.
"But we want to work constructively with all of the constituencies in the market to see if there's an opportunity to move the (racing) license or otherwise change the circumstances so that racing can continue in Illinois.
"We've been patient and thoughtful and constructive with the parties up in that jurisdiction, but long-term that land gets sold and that license will need to move if it's going to continue."
The gambling bill that passed in 2019 was too late for Arlington Park. The track -- and all of Illinois horse racing -- needed a casino on property 10 years ago if it wanted to contend with states that offer higher purses and higher-quality racing. Many breeders, owners and trainers could not remain in Illinois and survive under the circumstances.
When the state finally passed a pair of gambling bills in 2011 and 2012, after decades of neglect, then Gov. Pat Quinn refused to sign them, despite the $500 million in revenue they would have produced. Even then it might have been too late, but at least horse racing with slots at the tracks would have had a fighting chance.
Instead, Illinois tracks were not allowed to compete with tracks around the country that had slots, not compete with Illinois casinos, and not compete with any restaurant or gas station that could install slots.
But a plant that's had regulated gaming since 1927 wasn't given the same privilege. Thus, the best horses left for greener pastures and a billion-dollar industry with 50,000 Illinois jobs across horse racing and agriculture was left to wither.
You don't have to stretch the imagination to wonder what causes politicians to kill jobs and flush revenue, especially in Illinois.
So sad when you remember it was only a couple decades ago that Illinois horse racing was a major player in the game, and that the Chicago area once had more tracks than any other metropolitan area in the country.
Today, Churchill is the obstacle, now that it owns a huge chunk of Rivers Casino in Des Plaines. Given the massive expenditure for licenses and taxes for expanded gambling, not to mention infrastructure, Churchill decided against adding a sportsbook, slots or table games at Arlington, not needing to compete with Rivers only a few furlongs away.
So Churchill is also willing to let Arlington die, with little concern for the history, track, employees, patrons, community or horse racing in Illinois. To pretend otherwise is laughable. Having failed to get what it needed from the state when Arlington could have been saved, Churchill moved on and found another way to make money by purchasing 61 percent of Rivers.
Cynical and clinical in its approach, CDI fits right in with Illinois politics, and thus the spot the track is in now, with dreadful racing and no hope for the future.
Arlington Heights officials will complain now about what they're losing, but let's not forget how hard they once fought to keep slots and a casino out of the track. It was like the village was afraid Al Capone was going to walk through the door, so don't pretend now that Arlington Heights was on board with a casino all along.
What becomes of the 300 acres is very much up in the air, but one can imagine a combination of houses, condos and apartments with a new entertainment destination occupying prime real estate.
It was suggested here before the Cubs spent a billion dollars to renovate Wrigley Field that they ought to purchase Arlington Park and all its property to build a Friendly Confines replica, complete with all the restaurants, bars, hotels and profits.
Too late now.
The White Sox are stuck on the South Side through 2029 and the Bears on the lakefront until 2033.
What seems certain is there won't be horse racing.
"Long-term for Arlington Park, as we've explained on these calls and we've explained to the state, it doesn't work," Carstanjen said. "The economics don't work. It's not a viable solution. We'd like to give the state, given everything that's going on, an opportunity to help us find a better long-term solution."
Carstanjen would not commit to racing again next year, saying, "We're running the race meet right now and have an agreement to run a 2021 race meet if we elect to do so."
Which means the final race ever at Arlington Park could be run in two months with no fans on property, an unceremonious funeral for one of the grandest facilities ever to host a spectacular sport.
Hard to imagine a more gruesome and gloomy ending.
For anyone who has followed horse racing closely the last few decades, Thursday's news was hardly a surprise.
But it was no less devastating.
During an investor earnings call, Churchill Downs Inc. -- which owns Arlington Park -- dropped a bomb on local horse racing fans. As reported by the Daily Herald's Christopher Placek, CDI boss Bill Carstanjen no longer sounded like a man threatening the future of the Arlington Heights palace.
He made it crystal clear that the Local Oval has no future in hosting ponies.
"The long-term solution is not Arlington Park," Carstanjen said. "That land will have a higher and better purpose for something else at some point.
"But we want to work constructively with all of the constituencies in the market to see if there's an opportunity to move the (racing) license or otherwise change the circumstances so that racing can continue in Illinois.
"We've been patient and thoughtful and constructive with the parties up in that jurisdiction, but long-term that land gets sold and that license will need to move if it's going to continue."
The gambling bill that passed in 2019 was too late for Arlington Park. The track -- and all of Illinois horse racing -- needed a casino on property 10 years ago if it wanted to contend with states that offer higher purses and higher-quality racing. Many breeders, owners and trainers could not remain in Illinois and survive under the circumstances.
When the state finally passed a pair of gambling bills in 2011 and 2012, after decades of neglect, then Gov. Pat Quinn refused to sign them, despite the $500 million in revenue they would have produced. Even then it might have been too late, but at least horse racing with slots at the tracks would have had a fighting chance.
Instead, Illinois tracks were not allowed to compete with tracks around the country that had slots, not compete with Illinois casinos, and not compete with any restaurant or gas station that could install slots.
But a plant that's had regulated gaming since 1927 wasn't given the same privilege. Thus, the best horses left for greener pastures and a billion-dollar industry with 50,000 Illinois jobs across horse racing and agriculture was left to wither.
You don't have to stretch the imagination to wonder what causes politicians to kill jobs and flush revenue, especially in Illinois.
So sad when you remember it was only a couple decades ago that Illinois horse racing was a major player in the game, and that the Chicago area once had more tracks than any other metropolitan area in the country.
Today, Churchill is the obstacle, now that it owns a huge chunk of Rivers Casino in Des Plaines. Given the massive expenditure for licenses and taxes for expanded gambling, not to mention infrastructure, Churchill decided against adding a sportsbook, slots or table games at Arlington, not needing to compete with Rivers only a few furlongs away.
So Churchill is also willing to let Arlington die, with little concern for the history, track, employees, patrons, community or horse racing in Illinois. To pretend otherwise is laughable. Having failed to get what it needed from the state when Arlington could have been saved, Churchill moved on and found another way to make money by purchasing 61 percent of Rivers.
Cynical and clinical in its approach, CDI fits right in with Illinois politics, and thus the spot the track is in now, with dreadful racing and no hope for the future.
Arlington Heights officials will complain now about what they're losing, but let's not forget how hard they once fought to keep slots and a casino out of the track. It was like the village was afraid Al Capone was going to walk through the door, so don't pretend now that Arlington Heights was on board with a casino all along.
What becomes of the 300 acres is very much up in the air, but one can imagine a combination of houses, condos and apartments with a new entertainment destination occupying prime real estate.
It was suggested here before the Cubs spent a billion dollars to renovate Wrigley Field that they ought to purchase Arlington Park and all its property to build a Friendly Confines replica, complete with all the restaurants, bars, hotels and profits.
Too late now.
The White Sox are stuck on the South Side through 2029 and the Bears on the lakefront until 2033.
What seems certain is there won't be horse racing.
"Long-term for Arlington Park, as we've explained on these calls and we've explained to the state, it doesn't work," Carstanjen said. "The economics don't work. It's not a viable solution. We'd like to give the state, given everything that's going on, an opportunity to help us find a better long-term solution."
Carstanjen would not commit to racing again next year, saying, "We're running the race meet right now and have an agreement to run a 2021 race meet if we elect to do so."
Which means the final race ever at Arlington Park could be run in two months with no fans on property, an unceremonious funeral for one of the grandest facilities ever to host a spectacular sport.
Hard to imagine a more gruesome and gloomy ending.
I agree they needed slots 10 years ago to be competitve. But the dead started when they put the Polytrack in prior to the 2007 season. The bettors and horseman never warmed up to it.
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WildBill
2
How about at a Cubs book and bar across the street from Wrigley?
WildBill
2
Or they could force Churchill to divest the property, get in someone who isn't trying to protect a monopoly and generate $300m in gaming revenue which would mean about $30m in purse support for Arlington. Think the racing would be any better then?
The tracks in Illinois dug their own grave over thirty years ago because of their greed and attempt to protect the monopoly they had for decades.
When the casino people were trying to get the state to legalize casino gambling in the late 80's the owners of the tracks fought them tooth and nail. Loaded buses with hundreds of people wearing buttons that said CasiNO and went to Springfield to protest at the Capitol building. Casinos got their legislation passed and of course started making tons of money being the first casinos in the state which allowed them to hire the best lobbyist money can buy. A few years later the racetrack owners started complaining we can't stay in business without slot machines.
Well the casino people said you fought us to keep from getting casinos now it is our turn to deny you slot machines. Casinos were successful in doing that for the next 25 years. Racing in Illinois has been in decline for the last 25 years.
When the casino people were trying to get the state to legalize casino gambling in the late 80's the owners of the tracks fought them tooth and nail. Loaded buses with hundreds of people wearing buttons that said CasiNO and went to Springfield to protest at the Capitol building. Casinos got their legislation passed and of course started making tons of money being the first casinos in the state which allowed them to hire the best lobbyist money can buy. A few years later the racetrack owners started complaining we can't stay in business without slot machines.
Well the casino people said you fought us to keep from getting casinos now it is our turn to deny you slot machines. Casinos were successful in doing that for the next 25 years. Racing in Illinois has been in decline for the last 25 years.
Churchill doesn't have a monopoly. They have one casino a few miles away from Arlington Park. It doesn't make business sense to put a casino at Arlington on that valuable land. The taxes and fees to open a casino in Illinois are so outrageously high then have to pay the horseman 10 or 12 percent of the gaming win is not feasible. Then you have all the competition of other casinos and video machines everywhere.
Let me point out for those that don't live in Illinois that anyone with a liquor license here can put in video gambling machines. They are everywhere except Chicago, which doesn't allow gambling currently. They have cut into the revenue of the casinos. Total Casino revenue in Illinois has declined for seven years straight years.
From the age of 18 to 40 i was at the racetrack close to every day then i moved out of state. i loved the track. I learned about all the good and bad things in life at the track. Lets face it the tracks bring very little to the table in today's environment. Very few people go to a Racino for the horse racing. Race tracks can't survive without gambling. Casinos will do just fine without horse racing.
Don't kid yourself in the near future, casinos that are obligated by law to subsidize horse racing know that racetracks bring in very few people on their own and will look to get laws changed to cut out the tracks.
I will also point out that opening a Casino now in Illinois your up against not only all the gambling competition i talked about in my other post but also a state that is losing population because of high taxes. The taxes are only going to go higher because The state, the county (cook) and the city of Chicago are all headed for financial ruin. All were deeply in debt before the virus hit so now even worse.
For all these reasons i have stated, for those that think the casino at Hawthorne will be a huge success for the horseman i think your wrong. It will help the purses some but not what i hear many people talking about. Hope i am wrong but i don't see the casino being hugely successful.
For all these reasons i have stated, for those that think the casino at Hawthorne will be a huge success for the horseman i think your wrong. It will help the purses some but not what i hear many people talking about. Hope i am wrong but i don't see the casino being hugely successful.
WildBill
2
Fair enough on your points. Illinois isn't what it used to be in terms of profitability for a casino, especially with VGTs almost everywhere but the city, but its still a large state with a lot of adults with higher than average incomes. These investments may not be worth all the money they are spending, but the demand for more casinos is most definitely there. I have done quite a bit of work in this regard and slots at Arlington is without a doubt the best untapped market and the numbers at Rivers proves it. It won't take any extra land, in fact they should sell off quite a bit of it, but the grandstand and parking is already there and its already quite set back from housing so putting in a track elsewhere makes no sense at all.
i know from reading this forum that this is in your business wheel house. i always read anything you write and respect your opinion. i just don't see it because of the onerous taxes and fees on the Illinois casinos. Also the saturation in the market of casinos and VGTs.
For example, just two fees Hawthorne has to pay is a $15 million just for the license and $30 thousand per position and they are allowed 1200 positions. That is another $36 million. All before opening their doors. They say in the press release they and the casino company they brought in are spending up to $450 million on the project. i just don't see it as being a huge money maker.
WildBill
2
Hawthorne is saying they will spend that, but lets see it happen first. This is the trick, you say we are going to spend $400 million on our building when we are done. Ok. Now you go back there in 12-18 months, they will have a new building that houses the casino and maybe a restaurant or two. They will say they spent $150 million on it, but how do you know? The city or state aren't going to force them to pull out receipts to prove it Then they will say oh we are building our hotel in phase two, will cost us $125 million. Again how do you know? They might have spent like $80 million combined on those two or $300 million on it. Private owners don't have to tell you anything in the end. Rarely does someone go back and say he Carey family, did you really spend $400 million? The media and most folks don't care once the building is open how much they spent.
Now here's the other part to watch, how much of that total project gets built? If they spend $100 million to open a casino that's heavy on slots, they can make $300/day on a slot for lets say 1,100 slots. That's $120 million in revenue. Even with taxes and fees, they can net $50 million a year in EBITDA on that. Would you spend $100 million to make $50 million in one year? Of course you would and $300 a day on slots is easy if you are an hour or less away from about 7 million people, no matter how much competition there is. The rest of the phases will be based on what emerges in the market. If downtown Chicago gets a casino, the need for rooms goes down. Say Hammond gets sold (Eldorado already said its going to be sold) to someone who adds a hotel. Another nail in the coffin of the hotel project. Someone is going to win a license south of Hawthorne, might be a hotel there. If all those happen the Carey family is just going to say hey we would love to build this resort, but it doesn't make sense at this time and they will get out of it.
As good as these numbers are, go increase them for Arlington because there is less competition, the area is nicer and the building is already tailor made for slots and gaming. Whole floors are empty and are perfectly laid out for gaming. I walked the place last year, I couldn't imagine a better spot for a racino. I have seen some real dumps in terms of racetracks that have gaming machines, that's the nicest place around. I grew up going to Santa Anita and Del Mar, Arlington has a nicer facility albeit not as blessed in its setting. Still this thing should print money and letting Churchill get off without a casino is ridiculous. Even worse, these clowns are hinting they will build it up in Waukegan to blow up that casino license process too? Unbelievable, the IGB should grow a pair and kick them out of the state.
What about the horsemen and the Illinois politicians?