Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
- Thread starter The General
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cassiusclay
EOG Master
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
your string is hanging out of your shorts today....
your string is hanging out of your shorts today....
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
Cute. I'm in jeans and if you must know, Flo left 3 days ago...so this is the best mood you'll find me in this month.
I just find it really frustrating that this stupid country is so concerned about people's privacy that they often comprimise their safety. Silly me.
Cute. I'm in jeans and if you must know, Flo left 3 days ago...so this is the best mood you'll find me in this month.
I just find it really frustrating that this stupid country is so concerned about people's privacy that they often comprimise their safety. Silly me.
cassiusclay
EOG Master
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
these guys should be prosecuted imo. anna nicole smith was one f'ed up chic, i used to watch her tv show, she was always high on something. these guys showed some serious negligence not getting her help, they were milking the proverbial cow for every penny they could.
these guys should be prosecuted imo. anna nicole smith was one f'ed up chic, i used to watch her tv show, she was always high on something. these guys showed some serious negligence not getting her help, they were milking the proverbial cow for every penny they could.
4625
2
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
No, I'm actually more concerned with another well-intentioned nanny-state boondoggle that will enable the government to accrue more power. Who pays for a particular government mandate is always the first question that should be asked. Is there going to be a general tax increase, or will there by some sort of fee assessed against prescriptions, or will doctors be required to pay some sort of subscription fee (which would of course be passed on to the patients)?
Secondly, because Americans loves them some penalties, how would access and information disclosure violations be penalized? Are we going to manufacture another criminal offense? We already lock up a higher percentage of our fellow citizens than any other Western nation.
What about the legitimate concerns regarding privacy which many people hold dear? Are we all to submit our medications history to a government database in order to comply with a safety program of dubious effectiveness? The government has shown repeatedly that it doesn't know how to properly safeguard our most sensitive and critical records. What make anyone believe that the integrity of this database would be any different?
As for the effectiveness of the database, the accuracy would necessarily depend on the level of compliance demonstrated by those charged with reporting filled prescriptions (pharmacists?). What is the motivation for compliance? Fees? Fines? Criminal Charges? The databases now administrated by the government are rife with errors, what makes anyone believe that this one would be different? What happens when a particular drug is prescribed as a result of an erroneous entry in the database? Imagine the ramifications; who's liable? The prescribing doctor; the person who entered the incorrect data; the government?
How effective would such a database be against the perceived harm? I assume the harm is the ability of persons to horde meds by obtaining prescriptions from multiple doctors. How effective would such a database be against this perceived harm? Are people able to obtain meds now without a prescription? How would the database change the ready availability of prescription meds through irregular channels such as exists now?
Finally, if I were considering my ability to make money off of such a boondoggle, I would be arguing in favor of the database, wouldn't I? I don't think anyone could be unclear as to where I fall on the necessity of such a database.
In the overall analysis, the hoped-for upside to such a database does not even come close to outweighing the very real and concrete downside. Our government cannot be used to ensure absolute safety from cradle to grave for all persons at the expense of everyone else. Additionally, the Smith case itself demonstrates that we already have a form of protection against the perceived harm. I understand that her doctors and the person who assisted in obtaining some of the meds through illegal means are facing criminal prosecution. Though the current system is not perfect, it is not so ineffective that the seachange represented by your proposed database is necessary.
No, I'm actually more concerned with another well-intentioned nanny-state boondoggle that will enable the government to accrue more power. Who pays for a particular government mandate is always the first question that should be asked. Is there going to be a general tax increase, or will there by some sort of fee assessed against prescriptions, or will doctors be required to pay some sort of subscription fee (which would of course be passed on to the patients)?
Secondly, because Americans loves them some penalties, how would access and information disclosure violations be penalized? Are we going to manufacture another criminal offense? We already lock up a higher percentage of our fellow citizens than any other Western nation.
What about the legitimate concerns regarding privacy which many people hold dear? Are we all to submit our medications history to a government database in order to comply with a safety program of dubious effectiveness? The government has shown repeatedly that it doesn't know how to properly safeguard our most sensitive and critical records. What make anyone believe that the integrity of this database would be any different?
As for the effectiveness of the database, the accuracy would necessarily depend on the level of compliance demonstrated by those charged with reporting filled prescriptions (pharmacists?). What is the motivation for compliance? Fees? Fines? Criminal Charges? The databases now administrated by the government are rife with errors, what makes anyone believe that this one would be different? What happens when a particular drug is prescribed as a result of an erroneous entry in the database? Imagine the ramifications; who's liable? The prescribing doctor; the person who entered the incorrect data; the government?
How effective would such a database be against the perceived harm? I assume the harm is the ability of persons to horde meds by obtaining prescriptions from multiple doctors. How effective would such a database be against this perceived harm? Are people able to obtain meds now without a prescription? How would the database change the ready availability of prescription meds through irregular channels such as exists now?
Finally, if I were considering my ability to make money off of such a boondoggle, I would be arguing in favor of the database, wouldn't I? I don't think anyone could be unclear as to where I fall on the necessity of such a database.
In the overall analysis, the hoped-for upside to such a database does not even come close to outweighing the very real and concrete downside. Our government cannot be used to ensure absolute safety from cradle to grave for all persons at the expense of everyone else. Additionally, the Smith case itself demonstrates that we already have a form of protection against the perceived harm. I understand that her doctors and the person who assisted in obtaining some of the meds through illegal means are facing criminal prosecution. Though the current system is not perfect, it is not so ineffective that the seachange represented by your proposed database is necessary.
Trip my ducks
EOG Enthusiast
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
Sweded, I understand your sentiments, but am at odds with your dismissive attitude concerning privacy rights. Americans have fought and died to win and preserve our freedoms, yet increasingly many seem willing, even anxious to have our government legislate them away, for safety, for security, for the greater good. Every law, no matter how good the intent (and we all know what the road to Hell is paved with), diminshes freedom. Some are necessary. Many are not. Enact enough of them and you end up not with Utopia, but a Police State.
Perhaps Ben Franklin summed it up best when in 1775 he wrote, "They who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Perhaps Ben Franklin summed it up best
Sweded, I understand your sentiments, but am at odds with your dismissive attitude concerning privacy rights. Americans have fought and died to win and preserve our freedoms, yet increasingly many seem willing, even anxious to have our government legislate them away, for safety, for security, for the greater good. Every law, no matter how good the intent (and we all know what the road to Hell is paved with), diminshes freedom. Some are necessary. Many are not. Enact enough of them and you end up not with Utopia, but a Police State.
Perhaps Ben Franklin summed it up best when in 1775 he wrote, "They who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Perhaps Ben Franklin summed it up best
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
Let me put a real world spin on this..... poor people (or junkies) on government medical assistance walk in to whatever clinic and say they have horrible back pain or fibromyalgia (unprovable objectively) What is the doctor supposed to do? Give them a lie detector test... the doctor treats them like any other patient and gives them a narcotic perscription... Which is then paid for by the government and then taken by the junkie patient or sold for tall cash... This is a win for the doctor too, because that patient keeps coming back......and the doc keeps getting his government payment from them.... The cops try to bust the doc, its hard to make stick because he just says...hey I believed them.... This shit happens daily in America.... this is just me telling you that we are suckers and marks....
Let me put a real world spin on this..... poor people (or junkies) on government medical assistance walk in to whatever clinic and say they have horrible back pain or fibromyalgia (unprovable objectively) What is the doctor supposed to do? Give them a lie detector test... the doctor treats them like any other patient and gives them a narcotic perscription... Which is then paid for by the government and then taken by the junkie patient or sold for tall cash... This is a win for the doctor too, because that patient keeps coming back......and the doc keeps getting his government payment from them.... The cops try to bust the doc, its hard to make stick because he just says...hey I believed them.... This shit happens daily in America.... this is just me telling you that we are suckers and marks....
NoNewbieca
EOG Dedicated
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
Where in all this is individual accountability? Why is the individual's right to choose what they take and how they wish to take it taken away from them? I do not need Big Brother watching over me so that I can feel better about abusers and those incapable of self control.
Where in all this is individual accountability? Why is the individual's right to choose what they take and how they wish to take it taken away from them? I do not need Big Brother watching over me so that I can feel better about abusers and those incapable of self control.
Re: Breaking: Anna Nicole Smith is DEAD
First off, I lost my cool the other day because this topic hits very close to home for me. I apologize to everyone for losing my temper.
I understand your point completely. I know how important privacy rights are, but in this particular case I really do feel that the potential privacy violations do not out-weigh the potential lives saved.
What we have here is drug abuse. Not only is this drug abuse, but people have actually managed to find a way to get around the laws in place and aquire drugs they never should have had in the first place. Sometimes this leads to a mentally unstable person eventually saving up enough pills to take out a horse. What's worse is that it often leads to people dying from just taking their meds as perscribed.
These drugs are more dangerous than some of the illegal drugs out there, but doctors are handing them out like candy. They need to be held accountable if their patients die because of a drug they gave out (within reason). However, people lie. How is a doctor supposed to know if the person in front of them was at a different doctor the day before? Can a doctor be held accountable if they didn't know the patient was on a certain medication? Not really. All they can do is ask. This would be where some sort of database might help.
I'm not sure exactly how it would work. It's just an idea. If there was a way to put something like this together, it would save lives....AND save some good doctors being sued. It would also help doctors recognize drug addicts just looking for pain meds..which would save more lives all around.
Now, some could say that if you don't tell your doctor everything that you're taking, it's your own fault if you have a reaction. I can see that point, but sometimes a person is on so many different meds that one slips their mind. It happens.
I guess my problem is that we have this whole war on drugs for illegal substances, but no one is really trying to regulate equally dangerous legal substances. Medicine has advanced to include all of these new drugs, but the law hasn't. I would be willing to bet that more people suffering due to addictino to legal drugs than illegal drugs, but we may never have the numbers because who is going to think they have a drug problem when they're just following the doctor's orders?
The whole situation is a mess. I don't know how to fix it...just putting in my 2 cents.
First off, I lost my cool the other day because this topic hits very close to home for me. I apologize to everyone for losing my temper.
I understand your point completely. I know how important privacy rights are, but in this particular case I really do feel that the potential privacy violations do not out-weigh the potential lives saved.
What we have here is drug abuse. Not only is this drug abuse, but people have actually managed to find a way to get around the laws in place and aquire drugs they never should have had in the first place. Sometimes this leads to a mentally unstable person eventually saving up enough pills to take out a horse. What's worse is that it often leads to people dying from just taking their meds as perscribed.
These drugs are more dangerous than some of the illegal drugs out there, but doctors are handing them out like candy. They need to be held accountable if their patients die because of a drug they gave out (within reason). However, people lie. How is a doctor supposed to know if the person in front of them was at a different doctor the day before? Can a doctor be held accountable if they didn't know the patient was on a certain medication? Not really. All they can do is ask. This would be where some sort of database might help.
I'm not sure exactly how it would work. It's just an idea. If there was a way to put something like this together, it would save lives....AND save some good doctors being sued. It would also help doctors recognize drug addicts just looking for pain meds..which would save more lives all around.
Now, some could say that if you don't tell your doctor everything that you're taking, it's your own fault if you have a reaction. I can see that point, but sometimes a person is on so many different meds that one slips their mind. It happens.
I guess my problem is that we have this whole war on drugs for illegal substances, but no one is really trying to regulate equally dangerous legal substances. Medicine has advanced to include all of these new drugs, but the law hasn't. I would be willing to bet that more people suffering due to addictino to legal drugs than illegal drugs, but we may never have the numbers because who is going to think they have a drug problem when they're just following the doctor's orders?
The whole situation is a mess. I don't know how to fix it...just putting in my 2 cents.