My Sports Book Observations Over The Past 30+ Years.....

#1
As some of you know, I was on the ground floor of Offshore wagering and one of my good friends asked me today at lunch what changes have been made since Offshore took off in 1987.....Took me a couple minutes to collect my thoughts and tried to answer honestly....let’s start by saying all we had back then was a desk or cubicle with pen, paper, and a telephone....

There was no post up....everything was done through agents and they were responsible for their players....if the player stiffed, the agent would have to make good on the debt....it wasn’t that easy to get put on a sheet without reference from others....

Books were closed when the first game started....if you wanted west coast games you had to have them in by the first game tip...lots of deals with professional players at closing to try and balance the books....there were no halftimes or 5 inning betting back then....

There were no bonus whores....that changed with the many books opening up....I hear both good and bad arguments for giving bonus’s.....very debatable....

Definitely no in game betting.....you really have to hire sharp employees for that nowadays....

Back then nobody got booted for wagering.....you just used the sharps knowledge and used it to move your lines....back then you might not give full limits early....too many followers chasing steam especially with the opening lines....you had to know your players...

Don Best came along and made bettors more aware of what was going on....IMHO Don Best was most sharp during the early days....books for the most part had info before the players...nowadays I think it is the other way around....

Back then everything was graded by hand and figures were posted the next day.....In today’s world the computer geeks have all the answers five seconds after the game is over....

One final thought....there are way more crooked individuals working on both sides of the counter....in the early days books were trusted to give you a fair shake....greed and incompetence have changed that.....

Would love to hear others comments and thoughts about the industry...any questions feel free to ask....I loved what I did and the many friends I made....
 
#3
As some of you know, I was on the ground floor of Offshore wagering and one of my good friends asked me today at lunch what changes have been made since Offshore took off in 1987.....Took me a couple minutes to collect my thoughts and tried to answer honestly....let’s start by saying all we had back then was a desk or cubicle with pen, paper, and a telephone....

There was no post up....everything was done through agents and they were responsible for their players....if the player stiffed, the agent would have to make good on the debt....it wasn’t that easy to get put on a sheet without reference from others....

Books were closed when the first game started....if you wanted west coast games you had to have them in by the first game tip...lots of deals with professional players at closing to try and balance the books....there were no halftimes or 5 inning betting back then....

There were no bonus whores....that changed with the many books opening up....I hear both good and bad arguments for giving bonus’s.....very debatable....

Definitely no in game betting.....you really have to hire sharp employees for that nowadays....

Back then nobody got booted for wagering.....you just used the sharps knowledge and used it to move your lines....back then you might not give full limits early....too many followers chasing steam especially with the opening lines....you had to know your players...

Don Best came along and made bettors more aware of what was going on....IMHO Don Best was most sharp during the early days....books for the most part had info before the players...nowadays I think it is the other way around....

Back then everything was graded by hand and figures were posted the next day.....In today’s world the computer geeks have all the answers five seconds after the game is over....

One final thought....there are way more crooked individuals working on both sides of the counter....in the early days books were trusted to give you a fair shake....greed and incompetence have changed that.....

Would love to hear others comments and thoughts about the industry...any questions feel free to ask....I loved what I did and the many friends I made....
All that experience and still only makes $5 an hour. Sad.

-TKGB
 
#4
no sht - technology has changed things, thank you captain obvious. Actually one of your better posts in spite of that

There were definitely post ups back then, was on both sides of that issue, protection for everybody involved
 
#5
The corporations hurt vegas bettors. Nevada should have had a 3 bookmaker limit . Nobody took the lead to get books on the screen. Don best should not of handled it. There should of been some sort of post-up money to get on screen so there would of been no ownership failures. I think everything changed for the worse when greek , pinny matchbook left the market in USA along with the stardust closing . Throw William hill in entering the market did not help either. Too much ownership failures that were on the screen. Cascade & sports market just to name some.
 
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John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
#6
Good review from a smart guy on the front lines.

VD combines the perfect mix of Las Vegas experience and offshore expertise.

For years, legal sports betting was stuck in the mud because of archaic federal laws.

Technology exploded but the legislative process lagged far behind.

Nevada never took full advantage of its monopoly and now they're scrambling to maintain control of the game.
 

jimmythegreek

The opening odds start here
#8
Certain books remained traditional and focused more on customer service and dependability while kerping up with the times for convenience and wagering that was made easier on the eyes. Others crumbled under pressure, became more individually accountable and inconvenienced themselves by making things more complicated. When it came down to ratings and dependability, they balked and stood up for themselves rather than righting the wrongs that were company inflicted.
 
#11
Good review from a smart guy on the front lines.

VD combines the perfect mix of Las Vegas experience and offshore expertise.

For years, legal sports betting was stuck in the mud because of archaic federal laws.

Technology exploded but the legislative process lagged far behind.

Nevada never took full advantage of its monopoly and now they're scrambling to maintain control of the game.
And he's a great guy on top of all that. VD is fun to hang with
 
#12
I've always snickered when they talk about offshore openers, they're the leaders blah blah blah. PerpetualCzech assisted with
Pinnacle's soccer openers back in the day. What does that tell you? Sure the overnights corrected many mistakes but offshore
dimmed Roxy's rep with LVSC.
 
#17
arturo back then real gamblers bet big money on a handful of games in a week.

today those disciplined guys have fell into the trap of so many options to choose from.

soccer
tennis
golf h2h match ups
and dozens more

when we were doing this in the 80's and 90's

guys bet the 1.00 nfl game
then the 4.00 game

mostly the tv games

today everything is on tv so people bet everything

we hear people call themselves grinders today..........you can't be a grinder
taking 10-12 positions a day the juice alone will eat you alive

PLUS I HATE THE WORD GRINDER

a grinder is simply a guy who doesn't have the balls
to make a big score.

the only people winning in 2019 and there is not many
is the guys with the capital to sweat out the books

average guy with a 1-10 k bankroll............is the guy that gets grinded.

back in the day if a guy wanted to bet 6 figures on a game
the old man said pick a side............end of story and it was private

today its steam or wiseguy money
or tickets posted on the internet

times really changed
 
#23
all the states didn't get sports betting... many more will jump in Pa goes online in a few weeks. Illinois will be jumping in. Offshore will come out will a new gimmick to crush legal.
Don’t need to come up with a gimmick...they already have credit.....

Legal bookmaking already pays right away when you win....think it s a wash and they both win ...
 
#25
Mr. Top, you make a valid point but let's not lose sight of the exorbitant tax legal sports books are being charged by their respective states. Because of this I'm not sure they'll ever be able to offer the prices and options being offered by offshore credit shops. I could be wrong over time but for the time being offshore doesn't have to change anything.
 
#26
Mr. Top, you make a valid point but let's not lose sight of the exorbitant tax legal sports books are being charged by their respective states. Because of this I'm not sure they'll ever be able to offer the prices and options being offered by offshore credit shops. I could be wrong over time but for the time being offshore doesn't have to change anything.



agree there are more markets offshore, and the 2 main discount places are solid. Remember there is only one state really full blast that is NJ. Once more states jump in there will be some consolidation .. Offshore won't go away but their players are getting older too. How many young kids will go offshore when their state already provides it ???
Who is going to replace the people already playing offshore when we quit cause of age??? I am saying long term not now. NJ is coming out with some sort of an exchange ...what does that look like ??? we do not know yet.
 
#27
All good points my friend. I can't disagree with any of them but for sharp players regardless of their age they will surely take their business to an offshore credit shop with a solid agent if say for example that's the only place they can bet into a dime line during baseball season. Just one example of many. When do you think NJ will be offering an exchange? This is the first I'm hearing of this? Who will be the book behind it?
 
#28
All good points my friend. I can't disagree with any of them but for sharp players regardless of their age they will surely take their business to an offshore credit shop with a solid agent if say for example that's the only place they can bet into a dime line during baseball season. Just one example of many. When do you think NJ will be offering an exchange? This is the first I'm hearing of this? Who will be the book behind it?



the guy said at the end of the year. However it might not look like matchbook. I think it is an outfit from Australia . Lets not forget CG Tech & bet365 coming soon to NJ … the westgate is going to PA. or NJ probably within the next couple of months too.


The gov't shut out oddshark website from NJ just for ads. Nobody can access it from NJ...What if they got more aggressive and took on the offshore sites??? Don't you think that raised a few eyebrows offshore ? I think offshore is ready for anything ...I hope so anyhow. What if don best cannot keep its customer base ...will it close?
 
#32
All good points my friend. I can't disagree with any of them but for sharp players regardless of their age they will surely take their business to an offshore credit shop with a solid agent if say for example that's the only place they can bet into a dime line during baseball season. Just one example of many. When do you think NJ will be offering an exchange? This is the first I'm hearing of this? Who will be the book behind it?
New Jersey can offer a bunch of things but what good will it do when customers are already being shown the door at these books for winning.....talk about profiling....
 

Jb777

EOG Dedicated
#36
Can you give us some kind of analysis of these books in NJ since they opened?

Would be appreciated....I visited most of them in August of last year....I was really impressed with Monmouth.....
Mr. Top would probably be more qualified then me to give some analysis. The only book in NJ I've bet at is Borgata and they just had a few temporary windows in the Racebook, not much of a setup and very limited betting options but I haven't been there since September so idk if they've made any changes since then. I do know for a fact though that the FD book at the Meadowlands is taking on all kinds of huge action. Whole lot of NYC $ flowing into the place. I'd imagine they're limiting some players crushing them with small market stuff but the major markets I'm pretty sure they're taking on 6 figure bets without blinking an eye. Whales in NJ are all flocking there from what I've heard from some rock solid sources...
 
#37
New jersey has 13 sports books online to play at. CG Tech , Bet365 , The Score, Kindred (unibet) will be coming online before football. The Westgate is going to another state but I don't know where yet. Out of the 13 online books right now in NJ about five use the same oddsmaker at this time. Depends what sport you are playing , so you have to shop.
Nevada sports books Located in NJ have the same lines as vegas most of the time.
If you go to the websites of the NJ books you can view all sportsbook lines out of state ( draftkings ? ) but you cannot bet unless you are in the state. You Do not have to be a resident.
All sportsbooks have a desktop version & mobile app. You can sign up online. Most sportsbooks have overnight lines in NJ.

Fan Duel & draft kings are not good for MLB sides but both are good for MLB run lines & totals
Resorts online makes a lot of mistakes/one sided action with their margins in MLB so you want to play with them since they honor the bets.

NFL Online- reduced odds on sides & totals -105 at Resorts & ( sugarhouse -107 game day )
NFL - Money lines reduced margins are at Fan Duel & Draft kings.

Limits : each sportsbook is different online. Some go 5k online maybe higher. I heard Fan duel was taking over 100k in NFL at the counter. .

garden state park will have a sports book before football , which one ???

Monmouth Park is William hill
meadowlands is fan duel sports book

I have not been to A.C yet since all the books in NJ are online. Some of the sportsbooks in A.C put in Vegas style sports books adding a lot of betting windows & tv's
 
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