NJ sports book news

Re: NJ sports book news

Rhode island may be soon open 2 venues with IGT being the sports betting vendor.

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/21359/rhode-island-sports-betting-senate-vote/
Thanks, Bob.

Not really enthralled with RI sports betting being run by/for the state lottery.

Only one out. At only two physical locations. And no mobile platform. With the State taking a large chunk of the hold (well I hope it's just the hold).

Sounds like a recipe for great success. [sarcasm alert]

What a surprise that no one else bid to be the sports betting vendor. [even more sarcasm alert]

Was almost a given that a legislature or two would eff the thing all up, the longstanding successful Nevada regulatory model being there as an example notwithstanding.
 

MrTop

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

Hard Rock casino in A.C. opens on June 28th , could very well open without a sports book for a while . I would think hard Rock casino would get the issues cleared up with the NFL & the Miami dolphins before football starts in September.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

I will be making legal bets this weekend in Harrington Delaware. I have never been there, place looks iffy. But within half hour of where i'm staying for my son's baseball tournament.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

I will be making legal bets this weekend in Harrington Delaware. I have never been there, place looks iffy. But within half hour of where i'm staying for my son's baseball tournament.
Nothing iffy about Harrington. It is the Delaware State Fairgrounds with a 1/2 mile harness track smack dab in the middle of the State. Added a casino about 20 years ago and sports parlay cards about 10 years later. The sports book is a vanilla Bill Hill. You can bet on pro football week 1 and I think college is also available. (paper sheets on side) You may have to return there to collect a winner. Not sure it is worth the trip; if you've seen one Bill Hill, you seen them all.
 

Heim

EOG Master
Re: NJ sports book news

New York betting legislature at racetracks & mobile 'in a coma' for 2018. Indians don't want it. I guess initial reports that NY handle will surpass Vegas by 2023 were a little premature. CA will undoubtedly have the same issues.
 

MrTop

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

Maybe they want to see what new jersey pulls in first. Paddy power will have a big market to get people from outside the meadowlands. If they don't do anything stupid they could take away most of the credit business from the PPH.
New jersey books moving very slow opening up. Online in July .Apps for sure but a new wrinkle is websites with Geo-location plugs for websites.? Deposit & withdrawal has to be easy .online.. California, PA & NYC have many people who bet. It will take 4-5 years before that is done right.
 

Jb777

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

Borgata sportsbook manager told me yesterday they have to be open for 30 days before offering online wagering. Will be up and running sometime in July.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

Wonder whether/when we're going to see some Sport of Kings type stories -- crashing and burning due to poor capitalization and/or risk management -- with these operators (IGT, FanDuel) who are not directly experienced with traditional sports betting in the US market.

Probably will pick up some mid-level people from the traditional operators looking to take a step up in the industry -- great time to be in the industry for career advancement -- so they likely will not be completely bereft of direct experience.

But I'll be watching with interest so see if they hit any snags along the way.
 

MrTop

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

Hard rock AC new jersey will be open for football season . It will have mobile betting also. Gaming Innovation Group is the online gambling partner
 
Re: NJ sports book news

Thanks, Bob.

Not really enthralled with RI sports betting being run by/for the state lottery.

Only one out. At only two physical locations. And no mobile platform. With the State taking a large chunk of the hold (well I hope it's just the hold).

Sounds like a recipe for great success. [sarcasm alert]

What a surprise that no one else bid to be the sports betting vendor. [even more sarcasm alert]

Was almost a given that a legislature or two would eff the thing all up, the longstanding successful Nevada regulatory model being there as an example notwithstanding.
And does IGT have any experience managing risk as a sports book? As opposed to running a lottery and/or computer-linked megajackpot slot machines?

-- -- --

Well, according to this article, the answer is yes, at least to an extent:

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/20649/igt-rhode-island-sports-betting-lottery/
Although if I'm reading this article correctly on the fly, they did the mobile app for MGM, which is not the same as running a book.

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/13940/mgm-betting-app-sports-nevada/

IGT always has seemed to be in gaming tech, not sports book risk management, but maybe they're broader than that impression.
Rhode Island did sign their "venue-limited" sports betting into law.

There are lots of signs that RI will fall far short of their revenue goals (ridiculous estimates that could be called "political fantasy" .. LOL). Start date isn't until October 1, 2018.

It will be very hard for IGT to underperform the scumbags at Cantor Gaming who had one employee convicted of a federal crime, their President forced to resign, having to cease "in-progress" wagers because of incompetent bookmaking, and not even being able to correctly compute parlay payouts.

I wouldn't worry about IGT's risk management, they have way more experience in gaming than CGT and RI's handle will probably be miniscule compared to most books in Nevada.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

As Dorothy might say, there's no place like . . . Vegas, at least for the moment.

Well, and the offshores of course.

Is any other US jurisdiction slated to have multiple (albeit mostly synced) outs like in LV any time soon? And if those outs are spread out, they'll definitely need in-state mobile betting.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

As Dorothy might say, there's no place like . . . Vegas, at least for the moment.

Well, and the offshores of course.

Is any other US jurisdiction slated to have multiple (albeit mostly synced) outs like in LV any time soon? And if those outs are spread out, they'll definitely need in-state mobile betting.
Mississippi.
 

MrTop

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

I could see the states getting together maybe down the road in some sort of a contest across state lines to increase the pot. The wire act will be pushed to the side. The lottery already goes across state lines. Congress can do anything they want . If the owners complain enough they will get it. It will come much later on about 7-10 years.
Quite funny that the owners were telling david purdam that New jersey would win 2 months before it happened and purdam then told the world in an ESPN article. LOL the whole thing was fixed from the start . The last part of the case they put up a phony defense to fix it, which is what they wanted from the start.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: NJ sports book news

Rhode Island did sign their "venue-limited" sports betting into law.

There are lots of signs that RI will fall far short of their revenue goals (ridiculous estimates that could be called "political fantasy" .. LOL). Start date isn't until October 1, 2018.

It will be very hard for IGT to underperform the scumbags at Cantor Gaming who had one employee convicted of a federal crime, their President forced to resign, having to cease "in-progress" wagers because of incompetent bookmaking, and not even being able to correctly compute parlay payouts.

I wouldn't worry about IGT's risk management, they have way more experience in gaming than CGT and RI's handle will probably be miniscule compared to most books in Nevada.


Good review of CGT's shortcomings.

I'll pile on with the sports book's hours of operation.

To save money, some of the sports books (Tropicana) would not open until noon and others (Hard Rock) would close at 8:00 p.m.

Ridiculous policies in a 24-hour town like Las Vegas.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: NJ sports book news

CGT promised a lot and delivered very little.

And, oh yes, no cashing of sports book tickets between CGT properties.

If you bet at The Silverton, you must cash at The Silverton.
 

John Kelly

Born Gambler
Staff member
Re: NJ sports book news

Also, separate windows/machines for sports and horses.

Mostly an inconvenience for the disregarded horseplayer.

Rarely do CGT horseplayers hear the call of the race.

Embarrassing treatment of the player, in general.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

. . . two Mississippi, three . . .

So what are the specifics for Mississippi? I know there's a boatload of casinos in Mississippi, especially on the Gulf Coast and in Tunica, but also in other places like Vicksburg and Natchez.

But how many of those are going to have -- in the near future -- a large number of different outs concentrated in one area, i.e., not just a bunch of Will Hill books in a string of casinos in an area but instead ostensibly independently operated books within an easily accessible area, preferably with mobile apps.

By way of comparison, in Las Vegas I believe that there currently are 13 different outs (although getting them to move independently may be another matter), 9 of which have mobile apps.

Haven't updated this list in a while, but this is from just under two years back, with the outs with mobile apps highlighted in bold:

Boyd/Coast
Caesars
CG Technology (the out formerly known as Cantor Gaming)
Golden Nugget
Jerry’s Nugget
MGM
South Point
Stations
Stratosphere/Arizona Charlie’s
Treasure Island
Westgate SuperBook
William Hill
Wynn

Nothing like the golden age of sports betting out here, from before my time out here, but still a fairly decent setup for an inveterate line shopper like me, if you're both nimble and patient.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I'm trying to find out the specific state of the Mississippi market in terms of a bettor's ability to line-shop at independently run books within a realistically accessible area, like down on the Gulf Coast.

Do we have anyone on the ground down there -- or via a website tracking Mississippi -- that has the specifics on where they're at ("ya'll") on independently run outs? They're no doubt going to have a better bettor's market than Rhode Island, which really gets me with the whole only one out in only two locations concept.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

I could see the states getting together maybe down the road in some sort of a contest across state lines to increase the pot. The wire act will be pushed to the side. . . . .
Like we talked about back channel, Top, the Wire Act may not be an obstacle to a multi-jurisdictional handicapping contest.

Paragraph (b) of the statute appears to create a safe harbor for communications, etc. between states where sports betting is legal:

(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the transmission in interstate or foreign commerce of information for use in news reporting of sporting events or contests, or for the transmission of information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers on a sporting event or contest from a State or foreign country where betting on that sporting event or contest is legal into a State or foreign country in which such betting is legal.

18 USC 1084(b)

Actually, that arguably also should allow for Nevada residents (and now residents of other states where sports betting is legal) to bet online with offshore outfits like Pinnacle.

But, on your contests point, the field would appear to be wide open for books in multiple states to start multi-jurisdictional contests with large pots, possibly seriously challenging the dominance up to this point of the Westgate SuperContest.

If I were the SuperBook and its Westgate ownership, I'd looking for a way to get into other markets where sports betting is legal. Bit more of a challenge in that the SuperBook is not an independent book operator like a Will Hill, and I'm not sure whether Westgate currently has any resort properties in the other jurisdictions where sports betting now is legal. (People already fly in and use proxies as it is, but there likely would be an even larger pool if people in a particular state or states did not have to make a two or three thousand mile trip to enter.)

I do like the idea of multi-jurisdictional contests.

And I'll be looking for contest opportunities in these new jurisdictions as a contestant.
 

MrTop

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

by the end of the year there will be many things cleared up in other states which sports books are with who & the apps etc along with how the lines match up with offshore.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

. . . two Mississippi, three . . .

So what are the specifics for Mississippi? I know there's a boatload of casinos in Mississippi, especially on the Gulf Coast and in Tunica, but also in other places like Vicksburg and Natchez.

But how many of those are going to have -- in the near future -- a large number of different outs concentrated in one area, i.e., not just a bunch of Will Hill books in a string of casinos in an area but instead ostensibly independently operated books within an easily accessible area, preferably with mobile apps.

By way of comparison, in Las Vegas I believe that there currently are 13 different outs (although getting them to move independently may be another matter), 9 of which have mobile apps.

Haven't updated this list in a while, but this is from just under two years back, with the outs with mobile apps highlighted in bold:

Boyd/Coast
Caesars
CG Technology (the out formerly known as Cantor Gaming)
Golden Nugget
Jerry’s Nugget
MGM
South Point
Stations
Stratosphere/Arizona Charlie’s
Treasure Island
Westgate SuperBook
William Hill
Wynn

Nothing like the golden age of sports betting out here, from before my time out here, but still a fairly decent setup for an inveterate line shopper like me, if you're both nimble and patient.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I'm trying to find out the specific state of the Mississippi market in terms of a bettor's ability to line-shop at independently run books within a realistically accessible area, like down on the Gulf Coast.

Do we have anyone on the ground down there -- or via a website tracking Mississippi -- that has the specifics on where they're at ("ya'll") on independently run outs? They're no doubt going to have a better bettor's market than Rhode Island, which really gets me with the whole only one out in only two locations concept.
I'm not sure at this point if Mississippi will have any outs that aren't run out of a Vegas hub.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

Yeah, and I would expect a lot of that.

My thought is more as to how many different outs a Mississippi bettor will have in the sundry locations, like along the Gulf Coast. I never have had occasion to keep track of who owns/operates the various casinos down there. If they had 6 or 7 different outs within a small accessible area, including also outs originating in Vegas, that would be pretty good.

That sort of thing -- had it been in place back then -- might have affected my calculus in deciding to move from Baton Rouge to Las Vegas back in 2003.

Could have easily instead got a job in Biloxi, and kept on scuba diving and sailing with my best friends down in Waveland, if they had legal sports betting back then.

Katrina would have been an issue in 2005, though. Although I would have had at least myself well inland before it hit. 30 foot storm surges are nothing to mess around with.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

Squarepants, I can speak to the Gulf Coast.

At a minimum, the following casinos will have sports betting:

Harrah’s
Beau Rivage (MGM)
IP (Boyd)
Golden Nugget
Island View-Gulfport
Scarlet Pearl

I don’t know who will operate the books at Scarlet Pearl or Island View. I would think William Hill would be the default best guess until I hear otherwise.

There will probably be others I don’t know about yet.

I will be in both Vicksburg and Tunica later this month and I’ll find out what I can in both locales.

I would be very surprised if Silver Slipper doesn’t offer it as well, given it’s the closest out to the New Orleans Metro.

I suspect it’s going to be a great place to fade both the Saints and SEC teams in the non-conference.
 
Re: NJ sports book news

Super, that's very helpful info, thanks.

The view has been expressed in this thread that the multi-jurisdictional outs won't be shading lines for local teams for a book in a particular venue, but if that's the case that wouldn't apply to any independent outs that pop up (and all bettors aren't necessarily price savvy, betting where they are rather than where they should be). Definitely going to be some Louisiana folks that pop over the border; the Saints also are a regional team; and that of course definitely is deep SEC country, for bettors in and all 'round Mississippi.

There's a related situation with Reno and Vegas. Not quite as much with local team flavor but more so in that the two independent books at Atlantis and Peppermill will hang lines in Reno that aren't available here. Like a flat 7 where only 6.5 is available down here. They have mobile apps that work in-state, if someone were to take the time to fly up there and open an account and make a deposit. But my understanding is that they don't like sharp action and especially big sharp action up that way, so that perhaps might be a waste of time. (Fishhead, on the other hand, no doubt has folks on the ground in all reaches of the state working around any such concerns.)

Voodoo's circa summer 2016 breakdown on NV mobile apps (Aliante was being bought out at the time):

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/2016-nevada-mobile-betting-rundown/
 

MrTop

EOG Dedicated
Re: NJ sports book news

[h=3]How will online sportsbooks know that I’m actually inside NJ when I place a wager?[/h]Online sportsbooks will use sophisticated third-party geolocation software to track a player’s location with pinpoint accuracy via the same methods as New Jersey’s regulated online casinos. The features necessary to enable geolocation will be baked into Android and iOS powered books, but desktop users may have to install a small web browser extension (geolocation plugin) which verifies to the book if the player is located within state lines.
 
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