OT: Insurance

[OSU COWBOYS]

Who here is self employed and carries health insurance? I am paying $625 per month ($7500 per year) in insurance premiums for my family of three. Seems like this is a very bad bet. I am ready to cancel and "book" my own insurance.

Thoughts?

 

[John Kelly]

Re: OT: Insurance

As a gambler, I hate the concept of insurance. I consider it a necessary evil, however.

I'll contribute to an insurance policy for MRSOSU.:yay

 

[cassiusclay]

Re: OT: Insurance

625 a month? You are not paying enough.

 

[Static]

Re: OT: Insurance

After my move from Texas to Las Vegas, Nevada i had to drop the health insurance. I have asthma and need some medication but I buy online from a pharmacy in russia.
Insurance was fucking me every month. lol I am fine and healthy and saving moolah.

It is a gamble and we are gamblers. Drop the company.

 

[OSU COWBOYS]

Re: OT: Insurance

As a gambler, I hate the concept of insurance. I consider it a necessary evil, however.

I'll contribute to an insurance policy for MRSOSU.:yay

MRSOSU sure isn't for dropping insurance, but she is ultra conservative financially. I guess my next question would be why do you consider it a necessary evil?

625 a month? You are not paying enough.

Wow, really? I have a 1k deductible and the carrier is Blue Cross. You think that is cheap? You think I will average $7500+ (plus annual increases) in healthcare costs over the next 35 years of my life?

After my move from Texas to Las Vegas, Nevada i had to drop the health insurance. I have asthma and need some medication but I buy online from a pharmacy in russia.
Insurance was fucking me every month. lol I am fine and healthy and saving moolah.

It is a gamble and we are gamblers. Drop the company.

Thank you. That is my lean. I just want to get opinions from like minded people (or other full time gamblers that are in the same spot).

 

[cassiusclay]

Re: OT: Insurance

Yep, 216 week

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

That price would be nirvana up here, Travis. We pay over $1000/month for a family plan with a 2k deductible. Keep the insurance, if you ever need surgery on any member of the family, it could break you financially.

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

Forgot to mention that yes, I am self-employed and that's the best I could do. Just did the renewals, it's up to $379/month for a single, healthy male adult.

 

[OSU COWBOYS]

Re: OT: Insurance

That price would be nirvana up here, Travis. We pay over $1000/month for a family plan with a 2k deductible. Keep the insurance, if you ever need surgery on any member of the family, it could break you financially.

Do you think I will average over $7500 per year in health costs over the remainder of my life? (The $7500 is just the current cost and it has already risen 7-10 % per year since I got the policy.) I just dont see it.

 

[OSU COWBOYS]

Re: OT: Insurance

Yep, 216 week

You think that paying premiums of $11,232 per year, and whatever your deductible is, is worth it? If so, what is your justification.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Doughy]

Re: OT: Insurance

Wow, it sounds like you guys are getting screwed. I'm self-employed and just happened to switch my health insurance this morning from Cigna to AvMed. $30 co-pay, $5k deductible, $500 flat fee for any emergency room visit, etc. for $105 per month.

I very surreptitiously failed to mention I'm self-diagnosed with restless leg syndrom. Seriously guys, look into AvMed.

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

Been selling the stuff for years

what you want to know Cowboy

Raise the deductible to 5k or 10k

Your premiums drop a ton that way you are in a way self insuring but have it for the monster 200k cancer claim stuff

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

Forgot to mention that yes, I am self-employed and that's the best I could do. Just did the renewals, it's up to $379/month for a single, healthy male adult.

are u on a one man group plan or an individual plan

big difference

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

Do you think I will average over $7500 per year in health costs over the remainder of my life? (The $7500 is just the current cost and it has already risen 7-10 % per year since I got the policy.) I just dont see it.

Not to sell ya on it because i definately go both ways bot over 30years that is a little over 200k

I have seen boatloads of claims from that level to the million plus range.

 

[kid44]

Re: OT: Insurance

for me, having a couple sport related injuries, health insurance saved me. necessary evil unfortunately, especially as you get older.

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

Wow, it sounds like you guys are getting screwed. I'm self-employed and just happened to switch my health insurance this morning from Cigna to AvMed. $30 co-pay, $5k deductible, $500 flat fee for any emergency room visit, etc. for $105 per month.

I very surreptitiously failed to mention I'm self-diagnosed with restless leg syndrom. Seriously guys, look into AvMed.

That's a huge deductible, but keep in mind I'm 52 and have had 3 major surgeries and a couple of minor ones.

 

[John Kelly]

Re: OT: Insurance

Outside my field of expertise.

But a low-premium, high-deductible plan affords me some peace of mind.

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

are u on a one man group plan or an individual plan

big difference

That is a group plan through a co-op buy.

 

[KingRevolver]

Re: OT: Insurance

Munson ain't 52. That's impossible.

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

That is a group plan through a co-op buy.

yeah thats why its that high

group has to except any pre exsisting

but if u have had those conditions you need it.

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

Do you think I will average over $7500 per year in health costs over the remainder of my life? (The $7500 is just the current cost and it has already risen 7-10 % per year since I got the policy.) I just dont see it.

1 or two surgeries and yes, you will. I had hip replacement, an achilles rupture and bone spurs on the foot caused by arthritis. There's rehab to consider too. At your age, it probably sounds silly, but TTP's plan may be right up your alley.

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

yeah thats why its that high

group has to except any pre exsisting

but if u have had those conditions you need it.

You obviously know your stuff. We do have an older group and naturally there are pre-existing conditions, including my osteo-arthritis.

 

[Doughy]

Re: OT: Insurance

Munson, a $5k deductible is large, but there was even a $10k option. I figure I'm still fairly young, I don't smoke, and aside from some anxiety I'm in great shape. Never had a surgery in my life, knock on wood. If I'm slapped with a $30k surgery bill, God forbid, then a $5k deductible is practically the same to me as a $2k deductible at that point.

Plus, each month I'm saving hundreds of dollars that many on here are evidently spending. I'll use that saved money towards the difference in my $5k deductible and, say, a $1k deductible. Last year alone I probably saved $2k on skirting more expensive insurance that was readily available. It was a gamble that paid off.

 

[munson15]

Re: OT: Insurance

Munson, a $5k deductible is large, but there was even a $10k option. I figure I'm still fairly young, I don't smoke, and aside from some anxiety I'm in great shape. Never had a surgery in my life, knock on wood. If I'm slapped with a $30k surgery bill, God forbid, then a $5k deductible is practically the same to me as a $2k deductible at that point.

Plus, each month I'm saving hundreds of dollars that many on here are evidently spending. I'll use that saved money towards the difference in my $5k deductible and, say, a $1k deductible. Last year alone I probably saved $2k on skirting more expensive insurance that was readily available. It was a gamble that paid off.

I never had so much as a stitch or broken bone until age 39, then fell apart like Humpty-Dumpty.

 

[cassiusclay]

Re: OT: Insurance

when we had our second kid i switched insurance companies and was concerned that the delivery was not going to be covered by the new insurance company. i negotiated a cash deal with the hospital as a back up plan, got the cost down to $5,000 (as long as there were no complications). not sure what they charged the insurance company after they picked it up but i know it was alot more than 5k.

i think that's the real problem with our health care system, ever really look at what the hospitals charge the insurance companies? it's ridiculous.

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

Munson, a $5k deductible is large, but there was even a $10k option. I figure I'm still fairly young, I don't smoke, and aside from some anxiety I'm in great shape. Never had a surgery in my life, knock on wood. If I'm slapped with a $30k surgery bill, God forbid, then a $5k deductible is practically the same to me as a $2k deductible at that point.

Plus, each month I'm saving hundreds of dollars that many on here are evidently spending. I'll use that saved money towards the difference in my $5k deductible and, say, a $1k deductible. Last year alone I probably saved $2k on skirting more expensive insurance that was readily available. It was a gamble that paid off.

exactly

always better to insure for the bigger stuff even if u dont have the dough for the deductible.

the hospitals will take 50 a month forever if need be

 

[OSU COWBOYS]

Re: OT: Insurance

Wow, it sounds like you guys are getting screwed. I'm self-employed and just happened to switch my health insurance this morning from Cigna to AvMed. $30 co-pay, $5k deductible, $500 flat fee for any emergency room visit, etc. for $105 per month.

I very surreptitiously failed to mention I'm self-diagnosed with restless leg syndrom. Seriously guys, look into AvMed.

I will do that. Thank you.

Been selling the stuff for years

what you want to know Cowboy

Raise the deductible to 5k or 10k

Your premiums drop a ton that way you are in a way self insuring but have it for the monster 200k cancer claim stuff

I have thought of that. But, isnt it the really the same thing? Just a lower level of giving your money away? As a gambler, I just can't see where it makes sense.

TTP as an insurance guy. I wouldn't have guessed that. (Please don't take that the wrong way.)

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

when we had our second kid i switched insurance companies and was concerned that the delivery was not going to be covered by the new insurance company. i negotiated a cash deal with the hospital as a back up plan, got the cost down to $5,000 (as long as there were no complications). not sure what they charged the insurance company after they picked it up but i know it was alot more than 5k.

i think that's the real problem with our health care system, ever really look at what the hospitals charge the insurance companies? it's ridiculous.

nah cc

all paper stuff

Hospital will show a bill of 15 or 20k but the negotiated rate is about 3 to 4k

So actually u were gonna pay them better with the 5k:houra

 

[Timetopay]

Re: OT: Insurance

I will do that. Thank you.



I have thought of that. But, isnt it the really the same thing? Just a lower level of giving your money away? As a gambler, I just can't see where it makes sense.

TTP as an insurance guy. I wouldn't have guessed that. (Please don't take that the wrong way.)

no worries

like the job as not confined to desk,make my own hours,and when i need dough i can go sell more

i dont sell in your state but if you want me to look at a plan and make sure its good will be happy too12io4j2w90

 

[cassiusclay]

Re: OT: Insurance

nah cc

all paper stuff

Hospital will show a bill of 15 or 20k but the negotiated rate is about 3 to 4k

So actually u were gonna pay them better with the 5k:houra

that actually is good to know

i thought 5 k was cheap and they were still beating me!

 

[OSU COWBOYS]

Re: OT: Insurance

nah cc

all paper stuff

Hospital will show a bill of 15 or 20k but the negotiated rate is about 3 to 4k

So actually u were gonna pay them better with the 5k:houra

That is another though.....

When I first met MRSOSU she had an outstanding hospital bill of $6200. as her "brother" I negotiated a one time payment for her of $800. I just told them she was a single girl, waiting tables to get buy, and that she couldnt afford anything. I told them I could pay $800 right then via CC, and after about 15mins of further negotiation attempts on their part, they agreed to the sum and her credit was left unblemished.

Any huge doctor bill can be settled for pennies on the dollar. That is just the way it is.

no worries

like the job as not confined to desk,make my own hours,and when i need dough i can go sell more

i dont sell in your state but if you want me to look at a plan and make sure its good will be happy too12io4j2w90

I will take you up on this. Look for a PM in the next week or so. Thank you.

 

[RealSlimShady]

Re: OT: Insurance

Well, for sure it is a -EV thing. But you are insuring yourself against a catastrophe.

 

[KingRevolver]

Re: OT: Insurance

Well, for sure it is a -EV thing. But you are insuring yourself against a catastrophe.

So then it's not -EV? op:

 

[OSU COWBOYS]

Re: OT: Insurance

Well, for sure it is a -EV thing. But you are insuring yourself against a catastrophe.

Agree 1000%. It's like paying monthly to avoid life hitting a 10 teamer on you and burying you. Well, as you well know I havent met a 10 teamer yet I am scared of.

You are a financial guy Slim. What if I put in $1000 per month into a S+P index acct and only took it out if I had a healthcare expense? I cant imagine 12k per year at a conservative 4-5% would ever not be enough.

Am I off my rocker here? If so, why?

 

[RealSlimShady]

Re: OT: Insurance

So then it's not -EV? op:

On a net basis, it will be. Its just that people are willing to pay extra to avoid a wipeout.

 

[RealSlimShady]

Re: OT: Insurance

Agree 1000%. It's like paying monthly to avoid life hitting a 10 teamer on you and burying you. Well, as you well know I havent met a 10 teamer yet I am scared of.

You are a financial guy Slim. What if I put in $1000 per month into a S+P index acct and only took it out if I had a healthcare expense? I cant imagine 12k per year at a conservative 4-5% would ever not be enough.

Am I off my rocker here? If so, why?

Wait till I talk to Tim Donaghy and fix some games on ya! :devil:

I bet you will be ahead using that strategy. You can back test this, I guess. How much have you paid in premiums the last 3, 5 and 10 years? Add that to how much did you paid in deductibles over those periods on doctor visits. Then compare it vs how much you would have spent if it was pure "out of pocket" visits to the doctor. I bet insurance cost you money over those periods.

That being said, people are just afraid of the total catastrophe......cancer or some serious, serious illness. People are willing to overpay for the 1 in 100, 1 in 1000 or 10,000 chance of a total financial disaster.

 

[IrishTim]

Re: OT: Insurance

So then it's not -EV? op:

Of course it's -EV in terms of money, but we make -EV decisions in life all the time as a trade for peace of mind or other psychological/qualitative issues.

 

[RealSlimShady]

Re: OT: Insurance

Of course it's -EV in terms of money, but we make -EV decisions in life all the time as a trade for peace of mind or other psychological/qualitative issues.

Exactly.

 

[KingRevolver]

Re: OT: Insurance

How did I know Timmy was going to stick his big nose in here after I bust an EV joke on Slimmy? Fuckin' A.

 

[befeege]

Re: OT: Insurance

OSU, look into catastrophic insurance only. Get like a $25k deductible in case you or your wife comes down with cancer. Otherwise, just foot the bills. Using insurance to cover doctor visits is crazy. Insurance is meant to be used to spread the risk of something you can't afford; like your house blowing down. It is not meant for $50 doctor visits, etc. A friend that is self employed has just that and it is like $100/month for a single person but probably also very cheap for a family.