RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

#81
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

No other tout in the world has a fully transparent documented win rate of over 56% on their last 2200+ picks across multiple sports against widely available, mature market lines.

We're not going to win 40 out of 60 games long term, no one is. I only noted the recent run in totals in response to the original post and discussion.
OK, where is that record provided by an independent non-scam monitor site? I'll sing your praises if you'll just show me..

You can't just be great because you say you're great. Get it? LOL.

I can't withstand anymore Adam Meyer Syndrome. (The guy is really, at least, honest. Lots more money made from pick service than betting.)

Edward, do you bet on your selections, and, more importantly, do you frontrun them?
 
#82
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

No other tout in the world has a fully transparent documented win rate of over 56% on their last 2200+ picks across multiple sports against widely available, mature market lines.

We're not going to win 40 out of 60 games long term, no one is. I only noted the recent run in totals in response to the original post and discussion.

If that really is your record then you are a fool for not betting these plays for yourselves.

And if you are betting them then you are selling 2nd hand information to your sheep.

There's no excuse for you not betting these plays for your own good. The amount of money you can make betting these plays is way more then you can get hustling money out of other bettors. Plus getting involved in the tout business has to suck.

Why would you want to do that unless you had to do that? :btj:

Selling 2nd hand information is a scumbag move. Just is
 
#83
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

If that really is your record then you are a fool for not betting these plays for yourselves.

And if you are betting them then you are selling 2nd hand information to your sheep.

There's no excuse for you not betting these plays for your own good. The amount of money you can make betting these plays is way more then you can get hustling money out of other bettors. Plus getting involved in the tout business has to suck.

Why would you want to do that unless you had to do that? :btj:

Selling 2nd hand information is a scumbag move. Just is
Didn't I already say that much better?
 
#85
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

I remember having this exact conversation last year with a guy from LV. He claimed the oddsmakers tweaked something with their software that threw a monkey wrench into a lot of big players software programs,etc...... no idea if thats true or not, but I can certainly say something changed the last two CBB seasons big time. Them there totals were easy pickings about 3-4 years ago and it didnt even matter if the # moved 3-4 points. Last two years though..........well, you may as well have just lit your money on fire and burned it.

It seems like RAS is back on track this year though. Hopefully he has reconfigured things so to speak and keeps up the winning ways.
The openers are better than they were 2-3 years ago and the market takes out mistakes a lot quicker and more efficiently than ever, but what hurt us more than anything last year was not having all non-TV totals widely available enough to release until late January. This year we have had them pretty much since day one, with even Bookmaker starting to post everything as of last Monday. That makes a huge difference. So while 60% seasons on CBB totals may be a thing of the past, very profitable win rates are still attainable.
 
#86
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Its not really 'transparent' when youre doing the record keeping yourself, and choosing which side of the line to put your number.

If a games beats you WA record keeping number by 1 point, but 60-70% of your clients didnt get that number and got either a push or a loss then hat drastically effects the results. Especially if you have an inordinate amount of games where the lines come into play and opeopel will in fact have results that differ from one another.

So 'full" transparency would to be to go through every game and see where the line actually mattered and then give the range. If of those 2200 games the line factored in 120 times (which is a lot for such a small sample size) that could be a 3-5% difference in client win rate compared to yours, so your 56% or whatever turns into a 51-53% win rate. that would be 'full' transparency. You also go out of your way to show the lines and how theyre released and that you do in fact effect the market, so going tha step further is almost necessary. Although the irony is the people that realize this arent going to be the ones subscribing to a service in the first place.
It is transparent in the sense that every pick we release is automatically displayed on our website no later than 10 minutes after the start of each game.

As for the lines used, any comparison to line history at release time will prove that the lines we use are widely available above any reasonable standard. Any current or past RAS client can attest to this. It is not uncommon for lines to be found at are even better than what we release with at some books. We are particularly conservative on the numbers we use for totals.

As far as clients inability to get the number, we do everything in our power to help them get it. From release warnings, text messages, and countdown timed release. This topic is discussed at length on multiple pages of our website. There are many clients who are able to get our release lines on a regular basis and we do not recommend subscribing otherwise. All subscriptions come with a prorated refund guarantee for this reason.

No one should be graded by any line different (better or worse) than what is widely available at the time play is made.

You are dead wrong about the type of people who subscribe to the service. The vast majority of our clients are pros.
 
#87
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

OK, where is that record provided by an independent non-scam monitor site? I'll sing your praises if you'll just show me..

You can't just be great because you say you're great. Get it? LOL.

I can't withstand anymore Adam Meyer Syndrome. (The guy is really, at least, honest. Lots more money made from pick service than betting.)
Jeff, as posted above, every pick we release is automatically displayed on our website no later than 8-10 minutes after release. We have numerous subscribers on these and other forums who can attest to the accuracy of our recordkeeping and the conservative/widely available nature of our release lines.
 

Heim

EOG Master
#89
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Ed,

Do you suspect some books are on board with your service?

Hard to believe some groups getting down within 5-10
seconds.
 
#90
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Its not really 'transparent' when youre doing the record keeping yourself, and choosing which side of the line to put your number.

If a games beats you WA record keeping number by 1 point, but 60-70% of your clients didnt get that number and got either a push or a loss then hat drastically effects the results. Especially if you have an inordinate amount of games where the lines come into play and opeopel will in fact have results that differ from one another.

So 'full" transparency would to be to go through every game and see where the line actually mattered and then give the range. If of those 2200 games the line factored in 120 times (which is a lot for such a small sample size) that could be a 3-5% difference in client win rate compared to yours, so your 56% or whatever turns into a 51-53% win rate. that would be 'full' transparency. You also go out of your way to show the lines and how theyre released and that you do in fact effect the market, so going tha step further is almost necessary. Although the irony is the people that realize this arent going to be the ones subscribing to a service in the first place.
Usually when I keep track of my record, I use the line I got the game at - or in his case, the # he released the game at. Not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.
 
#91
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Ed,

Do you suspect some books are on board with your service?

Hard to believe some groups getting down within 5-10
seconds.
I think it is likely that some subscribe, yes.

We gave a free subscription to Tuckman for first few weeks of CFB and he was able to get the release lines for the releases he was at computer and prepared for. It really isn't impossible and shouldn't be hard to believe. It just takes the right resources, time, preparation, and some getting used to.
 
#93
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

jj- he does bet his picks before they are given out. the place or places where he bets must be careful where they bet out. they once bet out at a placve i knew; i called him out on it and he admitted he bet out and will ensure that the palce won't bet at the place i know. he kept his word!!!!!
 

TomBrady#1

EOG Dedicated
#95
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

I remember having this exact conversation last year with a guy from LV. He claimed the oddsmakers tweaked something with their software that threw a monkey wrench into a lot of big players software programs,etc...... no idea if thats true or not, but I can certainly say something changed the last two CBB seasons big time. Them there totals were easy pickings about 3-4 years ago and it didnt even matter if the # moved 3-4 points. Last two years though..........well, you may as well have just lit your money on fire and burned it.

It seems like RAS is back on track this year though. Hopefully he has reconfigured things so to speak and keeps up the winning ways.

THey also tweaked in college football totals too. Big time. You must adjust and work hard. NOT EASY.
 

TomBrady#1

EOG Dedicated
#96
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

It is transparent in the sense that every pick we release is automatically displayed on our website no later than 10 minutes after the start of each game.

As for the lines used, any comparison to line history at release time will prove that the lines we use are widely available above any reasonable standard. Any current or past RAS client can attest to this. It is not uncommon for lines to be found at are even better than what we release with at some books. We are particularly conservative on the numbers we use for totals.

As far as clients inability to get the number, we do everything in our power to help them get it. From release warnings, text messages, and countdown timed release. This topic is discussed at length on multiple pages of our website. There are many clients who are able to get our release lines on a regular basis and we do not recommend subscribing otherwise. All subscriptions come with a prorated refund guarantee for this reason.

No one should be graded by any line different (better or worse) than what is widely available at the time play is made.

You are dead wrong about the type of people who subscribe to the service. The vast majority of our clients are pros.
The record this year so far is rock solid when it is harder than ever. Bernie is upset about last year and I do nto blame him but that crap happens in this biz. Fun to follow and good luck to all.
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
#97
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

I have used Edward's service in the past. As a capper myself, I have no issue paying for solid info in a sport that I am not focusing on at the time. Edward is honest and the lines he uses for grading are basically spot on. On occasion I did benefit by.5 or lost.5. The line does move fast and you have to assume that on rare occasions you may lose a line for a variety of reasons (clerk, disconnect, line unavailable, slow internet etc).Clearly Edward's strength is early in the season when many of these teams fly under the radar. Once early January rolls around much of RAS' advantage is negated. I made the mistake of jumping into the fray in very late December one year as he was embarking on a bad stretch. Such is the nature of streaks. If you can make the commitment now is a good time to get in as RAS enjoys an advantage at this time of the year.
 
#98
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Usually when I keep track of my record, I use the line I got the game at - or in his case, the # he released the game at. Not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.
Most people who bet themselves use the number they bet at, that isnt the point.

The point is if he s releasing games at a certain number, and the line (he admits) moves then what? That is going to effect results of people. If you asked 10 people who have his service what their results are I would bet that half them wouldnt have the same results he has. And maybe as many as 2 would have a negative result when he is actually showing a positive one. So then what?

That is why I say he is in a semi unique situation where his plays can actually move a market. Either by books getting the plays and know he has enough clients who can move enough money to make a difference so they move the preemptively, or 'best' case he has enough clients who bet enough to move the line on their own. Either way if the lines moves and a certain portion of players arent getting those lines then his record is not as it appears.

COMPARATIVELY speaking sure he goes above and beyond, but really what does he have to compete with? But it still inst completely unbiased.

Like I say if he has a 3-5% chance of having games move off a winner to a loser then his results will reflect that. So his +145 or whatever nits for his 56% or whatever 'only' need 60-70 (depending on how their weighted) to lose all 145 units of profit, if they all lose, pushes will just be less profit obviously. now 60-70 in a 2200 game sample is a pretty big amount, but not impossible to obtain especially in NCAA hoops totals. But if the lines moves 2-3% of the time from a winner to a loser that is a small margin for 'error'.

Thats why all the widely available talk and other tout speak is all nonsense. A line is a line and whatever a particular bettor got is what they got, widely available is just some term I think fezzik invented trying to justify his horrendous results. At the very least the worst line available should always be the grading point for a tout. That way they can say no matter what the number their results were xxxxx. So if they can put up numbers that win against the worst number available then no critic can have anything to point to.

That is why I say it would be interesting to see what the end results would be in this case. Record versus number play was released at, what it was against best available, 'widely available' and worst available. Or have a caveat in the play that say DO NOT PLAY THIS IF IT MOVE TO xxx. Then if a person can show enough evidence that the plays moved too much enough of the time outside the suggested parameters they get a free portion of time.

We can debate this all day and night, but touts deal second hand info, end of story. regardless of how they want to word it. And in this day and age still, second hand info isnt worth all that much. But 'value' is always in the eye of the beholder I guess. And that is why touts still can get clients.
 

TomBrady#1

EOG Dedicated
#99
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Record at 60% is outstanding.


[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]

<tbody>

[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1"]

SIDES:

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]40-26[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

+14.30

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]60.61%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

+1.04

[/TD]


TOTALS:

[TD="align: center"]49-35[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]

+10.50

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58.33%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]

+2.83

[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1"]

OVERALL:

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

89-61

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

59.33%

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

+2.02

[/TD]


</tbody>
[/TABLE]
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Most people who bet themselves use the number they bet at, that isnt the point.

The point is if he s releasing games at a certain number, and the line (he admits) moves then what? That is going to effect results of people. If you asked 10 people who have his service what their results are I would bet that half them wouldnt have the same results he has. And maybe as many as 2 would have a negative result when he is actually showing a positive one. So then what?

That is why I say he is in a semi unique situation where his plays can actually move a market. Either by books getting the plays and know he has enough clients who can move enough money to make a difference so they move the preemptively, or 'best' case he has enough clients who bet enough to move the line on their own. Either way if the lines moves and a certain portion of players arent getting those lines then his record is not as it appears.

COMPARATIVELY speaking sure he goes above and beyond, but really what does he have to compete with? But it still inst completely unbiased.

Like I say if he has a 3-5% chance of having games move off a winner to a loser then his results will reflect that. So his +145 or whatever nits for his 56% or whatever 'only' need 60-70 (depending on how their weighted) to lose all 145 units of profit, if they all lose, pushes will just be less profit obviously. now 60-70 in a 2200 game sample is a pretty big amount, but not impossible to obtain especially in NCAA hoops totals. But if the lines moves 2-3% of the time from a winner to a loser that is a small margin for 'error'.

Thats why all the widely available talk and other tout speak is all nonsense. A line is a line and whatever a particular bettor got is what they got, widely available is just some term I think fezzik invented trying to justify his horrendous results. At the very least the worst line available should always be the grading point for a tout. That way they can say no matter what the number their results were xxxxx. So if they can put up numbers that win against the worst number available then no critic can have anything to point to.

That is why I say it would be interesting to see what the end results would be in this case. Record versus number play was released at, what it was against best available, 'widely available' and worst available. Or have a caveat in the play that say DO NOT PLAY THIS IF IT MOVE TO xxx. Then if a person can show enough evidence that the plays moved too much enough of the time outside the suggested parameters they get a free portion of time.

We can debate this all day and night, but touts deal second hand info, end of story. regardless of how they want to word it. And in this day and age still, second hand info isnt worth all that much. But 'value' is always in the eye of the beholder I guess. And that is why touts still can get clients.
In defense of Edward, with whom I have no personal relationship nor any vested interest, you need two things to get the favorable lines, both of which are attainable.
1) A commitment to being available on short notice when the plays are released. It can be taxing at times.
2) A book that has posted totals along with software that will not change the line after the clerk has read you the number.
In other words, if you want the good numbers it does take effort on the part of the customer.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

exactly the reaon i did not sign up this year. i can take the one year beating. it would have been nice for subscribers of a bad year to get some discount, but, this just isn't done in the tout business. as pbovi says, i also don't mind paying if i am not handicapping, especially if i can get a return on my investment. HOWEVER, the grief is torture--getting the release number, just TORTURE.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

The openers are better than they were 2-3 years ago and the market takes out mistakes a lot quicker and more efficiently than ever, but what hurt us more than anything last year was not having all non-TV totals widely available enough to release until late January. This year we have had them pretty much since day one, with even Bookmaker starting to post everything as of last Monday. That makes a huge difference. So while 60% seasons on CBB totals may be a thing of the past, very profitable win rates are still attainable.
I noticed the totals being posted earlier again too this year (started last year for many games, now this year all seem to be up). I think it was 2 years ago when most books didnt hang totals until like 5PM most days. How are you guys getting in on the opening numbers now Ed, do you guys make your plays the night before or first thing in the AM?
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

There is just no fair way to grade any bettor or handicapper other than against what the current line is at the time they make the play. You don't play +3.5 lose by 4, and cash a ticket because it closed +4.5, nor do you lose when it happens the other way around. That is just nonsense.

Most of our clients are long time followers, and they know the drill, but we discuss it at length on multiple pages of our website:

Due to the strong following of the service and our focus on small market conferences, it should be expected that lines on all plays will move significantly within 5-20 seconds of release! It can be a challenge for bettors of all experience levels to place wagers before movement. It is essential to optimize your process and be prepared to place wagers immediately upon release in order to take full advantage of this service. Failure to do this will result in having to place wagers at lines worse than what we release and grade with, thus losing some if not all edge that the service provides. We recommend experimenting with several different sportsbooks (some move lines faster than others) and betting methods (phone/online) to see what works best for you. Do not expect perfect results in your first few attempts.

It is what it is. The majority of clients are able to get the number on a regular basis. Maybe not 100% of the time, but certainly often enough to justify their subscription. If not, they can request a prorated refund at any time.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

I noticed the totals being posted earlier again too this year (started last year for many games, now this year all seem to be up). I think it was 2 years ago when most books didnt hang totals until like 5PM most days. How are you guys getting in on the opening numbers now Ed, do you guys make your plays the night before or first thing in the AM?
Our release schedule is here: http://www.handicapper.net/release-times.php

Totals:

Mon-Fri
: First release at 2:05-2:25pm PST for TV games and all other games starting at 4:30pm PST or sooner. Second release at 3:05-3:25pm PST (give or take 10 minutes) for all start times later than 4:30pm PST.

Sat-Sun: Total releases possible throughout morning and early afternoon PST as start times dictate. Last update will be approximately 3:15pm PST (give or take 10 minutes).
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

There is just no fair way to grade any bettor or handicapper other than against what the current line is at the time they make the play. You don't play +3.5 lose by 4, and cash a ticket because it closed +4.5, nor do you lose when it happens the other way around. That is just nonsense.
Thats true for the BETTOR, not the TOUT. BIG difference.

If a tout can post an unreal record against ANY available (worst line) and still be profitabel then he has proven something.

Obviously your picks are a winner if you are betting them yourself, no denying that, but as a SELLER of picks you have to also realize what I am saying. If the games you released didnt move the line no harm no foul, but they do, and apparently enough to cause issues. Coincidence or result is irrelevant. But when so much emphasis is put on the line people bet then obviously getting the best line (at least in some people's minds) is paramount.

While your PERSONAL record cant be questioned the record of your clients can.

That has been my point against touts forever, those good enough or with enough clients to actually move a number are in a catch-22 situation. You arent the first to have this issue. Other guys in the past were 'victims of their own success' as well.

I know you do your best to make it clear, but if you want to keep the holier than thou approach then putting up the worst of it and showing a profit would shut me and anyone else who is a critic up.

At +145 units I would still say that at the 'worst' of it you might actually have a losing result, and that is saying a lot. And not everyone (I doubt anyone would get the worst number every time) but it just shows the realities of gambling and getting in on numbers late to the party. And why totu records, no matter how methodical are indicative of what their clients can expect.

While you dont make up numbers you do have that window where you know yourself people are betting losing numbers due to moves. While you cant control it you can at least cite it in your record keeping.

If you ask me a +15 against the WORST numbers available would probably be more impressive than +100 against a number most guys might not be able toget.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Our plays historically have been very profitable, even against the close, but that is still a ridiculous standard to grade anyone by.

There are often times where we release a game, for example North Texas at -18 on Dec 2nd, and it moves to and settles at -19/-19.5 after release. Then an hour later gets hit again and again by other groups and bettors, before closing at -22.5. It is even more ridiculous to suggest that we should be graded at the close in instances like this, which there are many.

Regardless of any of that, subscribers had ample opportunity to play that game at -18, and even several -17.5's were available at release. This is what people are subscribing for.

I just posted this on another forum last night. Winning at sports betting is NOT EASY, especially against widely available, full limit, mature market lines! If people aren't willing to invest time and resources, and do everything in their power to get the best number possible, they shouldn't expect to be successful, regardless if they are following RAS or anyone else.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

On FIRE!


[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]

<tbody>

[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1"]

SIDES:

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]43-28[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

+15.10

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]60.56%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

+1.05

[/TD]


TOTALS:

[TD="align: center"]55-37[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]

+14.30

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]59.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]

+2.80

[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1"]

OVERALL:

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

98-65

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

60.12%

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #f4f5f1, align: center"]

+2.01

[/TD]


</tbody>
[/TABLE]
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

It is amazing how much more chatter there is when we are losing compared to when we are winning.
Well that's just how it works, Edward. You, at the least, intimate that you are a successful handicapper and deserve money for your thoughts. If you're right, then you meet the expectation. That is not newsworthy.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

There is just no fair way to grade any bettor or handicapper other than against what the current line is at the time they make the play
I can't believe anyone would disagree with this. Just mind boggling. Great season, Ed.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

On FIRE!


[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]
<tbody>

[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1"]

SIDES:

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]43-28
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]

+15.10

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]60.56%
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]

+1.05

[/TD]


TOTALS:

[TD="align: center"]55-37
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]

+14.30

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]59.78%
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]

+2.80

[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1"]

OVERALL:

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]

98-65

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]

60.12%

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4F5F1, align: center"]

+2.01

[/TD]


</tbody>[/TABLE]
I posted your updated record. Just a rock solid job thus far.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Here we go again..wantitall4now already said it as well as it can be said.

Nobody pays Edward out of appreciation for his abilities as a bettor or handicapper. But can you get in on his same bets? HMMMMM....You are not paying for his success (handicapping or marketing), but whether he can deliver it to you.

Welcome to Toutdom.
 

IrishTim

EOG Dedicated
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

What kind of dumbass would subscribe in 2011 without knowing they have outs to get down? If they do, then those people have zero chance to win going forward any way.
 
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Here we go again..wantitall4now already said it as well as it can be said.

Nobody pays Edward out of appreciation for his abilities as a bettor or handicapper. But can you get in on his same bets? HMMMMM....You are not paying for his success (handicapping or marketing), but whether he can deliver it to you.

Welcome to Toutdom.
Most cannot Jeff. Legitimate question for sure but not the purpose of this thread at least for me. Should we start another thread on this? Just kidding.....
 

Heim

EOG Master
Re: RAs Totals record thus faR (bERNIE!)

Worth it till the 15th however I'd trust 'Railbird' over Ed during conference play. 53% L3
however I don't think conference is over 51%



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*
|
<form action="https://www.eProcessingNetwork.Com/cgi-bin/wo/order.pl" method="post" target="_blank" style="margin:0px"> </form>
14 Days

..................................................​

$375
<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_blank">
</form>
*
|
<form action="https://www.eProcessingNetwork.Com/cgi-bin/wo/order.pl" method="post" target="_blank" style="margin:0px"> </form>
Through Jan 15th

................................​

$845*"
 
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