So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

#1
tisk tisk to those who reported otherwise earlier in the week. rjt...



A federal judge ruled Friday that the NFL cannot suspend Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Will Smith, Deuce McAllister, Charles Grant, or Texans LS Bryan Pittman for violating the league's anti-doping policy.
The situation has become confusing, but the Williams Wall is now sure to play at Detroit. The Players Association had been arguing that the NFL didn't properly inform the players about the StarCaps substance they took that contained potentially performance-enhancing elements. It's unclear if the players can play in Weeks 15-17 or in the first round of the playoffs. Dec. 5 - 3:20 pm et
Source: Associated Press
 
#2
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

IMO, they have an excellent case. If the league never informed them that the substance was off limits, how can the league punish them for taking it?
 
#3
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

IMO, they have an excellent case. If the league never informed them that the substance was off limits, how can the league punish them for taking it?
The league isn't responsible for what players put into their bodies, the players are.
 
#5
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

The league isn't responsible for what players put into their bodies, the players are.
If the substance didn't list all the ingredients in it. How is the player supposed to know. They didn't intentionally cheat. No reason the league can't make an exception b/c the manufacturer didn't list all the ingredients
 
#6
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

Agreed, however, unless the rules are fully articulated, then how are they expected to be followed?
This is from the NFL's steroid policy.


"You and you alone are responsible for what goes into your body. Claiming that you used only legally available nutritional supplements will not help you in an appeal. ... Even if they are bought over-the-counter from a known establishment, there is currently no way to be sure that they contain the ingredients listed on the packaging or have not been tainted with prohibited substances ...
"If you take these products, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK! For your own health and success in the league, we strongly encourage you to avoid the use of supplements altogether, or at the very least to be extremely careful about what you choose to take."
 
#7
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

It seems to me that the statement I provided covers the issues pretty well.
 
#8
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

What if the whole team was taking a certain pill that didnt list all of the ingredients, and it turned out they all tested positive for a banned substance. Would they just have the team forfeit the next 4 games?
 
#9
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

This is from the NFL's steroid policy.


"You and you alone are responsible for what goes into your body. Claiming that you used only legally available nutritional supplements will not help you in an appeal. ... Even if they are bought over-the-counter from a known establishment, there is currently no way to be sure that they contain the ingredients listed on the packaging or have not been tainted with prohibited substances ...
"If you take these products, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK! For your own health and success in the league, we strongly encourage you to avoid the use of supplements altogether, or at the very least to be extremely careful about what you choose to take."
You're not getting my point, TxFan... Unless a COMPLETE list of banned substances is provided to the players, on demand, the league has no foundation on which to base punishment. If such a list was provided, and the players then ingested said substance, then punishment is warranted.
 
#10
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

You're not getting my point, TxFan... Unless a COMPLETE list of banned substances is provided to the players, on demand, the league has no foundation on which to base punishment. If such a list was provided, and the players then ingested said substance, then punishment is warranted.
The NFL does provide the players a list. The NFL has companies that are certified by them and ok the use of their products by the NFL. Their policy tells them that if the product hasn't been tested by the NFL THEN DON'T TAKE IT.

I really don't see the problem. If a player wants to use supplements then use those approved by the NFL. If you want to use a product that the NFL hasn't tested then policy says you're on your own.

pretty simple really.
 
#11
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

ATLANTA -- Jeff Fish, the Atlanta Falcons Director of Athletic Performance -- the strength coach for most teams -- has been approached many times by players wanting to know if supplements they were interested in taking contained ingredients banned by the NFL.
"I can look at every substance that's supposed to be in there, tell them that it's clean and it could be tainted with something that's banned because these companies that aren't certified by the NFL don't have to tell you what's in there," Fish said. "I don't feel comfortable telling guys anything is OK unless it's been certified by the league."
Even so, players still take pills and medicines and ingest drinks at their own risk, Fish said, all in the name of supposedly better health, bigger muscles and leaner frames.
"At the end of the day, every player is responsible for what he puts into his body."

-- Jeff Fish, Falcons strength coach​

"At the end of the day," Fish said, "every player is responsible for what he puts into his body."
That universal catch phrase laid bare by the league, its players union and its players seems simple enough. After all, ignorance of the law won't keep you from getting a ticket for driving 55 mph in a 30-mph zone.
 
#12
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

The NFL does provide the players a list. The NFL has companies that are certified by them and ok the use of their products by the NFL. Their policy tells them that if the product hasn't been tested by the NFL THEN DON'T TAKE IT.
"The Players Association had been arguing that the NFL didn't properly inform the players about the StarCaps substance they took that contained potentially performance-enhancing elements."

Not according to the players association and and federal judge that felt the players have enough of a case to tell the league to jump in a lake, at least for the time being.
 
#13
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

The NFL says it notified the players of the StarCaps. The contract between the NFL and the Union is binding.

Was this judge located in Minny?

I'm not sure how you can get around "You are responsible for what you put into your body."
 
#14
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

Coulnt cranberry juice be considered a masking agent since that helps to rid the system of THC? I wonder if that is on the list of banned substances?
 
#15
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

The NFL says it notified the players of the StarCaps. The contract between the NFL and the Union is binding.

Was this judge located in Minny?

I'm not sure how you can get around "You are responsible for what you put into your body."
If this was a couple texans players you would be singing a different tune.
 
#16
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

i always look into "intent" on making decisions. I don't see the harm in making an exception. Aside from "omg, then u will hafta make exceptions for everyone" argument. Really that's the only downside of it.

Rather than punish people who worked hard all season to get where they are at and take the rest of their season away.
 
#17
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

Coulnt cranberry juice be considered a masking agent since that helps to rid the system of THC? I wonder if that is on the list of banned substances?
Maybe they have a urinary tract infection as well. It's doubtful on the juice. :doh1
 
#19
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

The NFL says it notified the players of the StarCaps. The contract between the NFL and the Union is binding.

Was this judge located in Minny?

I'm not sure how you can get around "You are responsible for what you put into your body."
Federal judge blocks NFL's suspension of 5

By CHRIS WILLIAMS ? 1 hour ago


ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) ? A federal judge has blocked the NFL from suspending five players for violating the league's anti-doping policy.
U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson said Friday he needed more time to consider the case after hearing several hours of arguments from the league and the NFL Players Association.


Kevin Williams and Pat Williams of the Minnesota Vikings, and Charles Grant, Deuce McAllister and Will Smith of the New Orleans Saints all were suspended this week for four games. They tested positive for a banned diuretic in the dietary supplement StarCaps.


The union has argued the NFL didn't properly inform players about the substance. The NFL's attorneys argued that claim, and others, had been considered and rejected in a process set out by the league's collective bargaining agreement.


THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.


ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) ? A federal judge in St. Paul is hearing arguments whether five players suspended under the NFL's anti-doping policy should be reinstated.


Kevin Williams and Pat Williams of the Minnesota Vikings and Charles Grant, Deuce McAllister and Will Smith of the New Orleans Saints are hoping to have their four-game suspensions lifted. They tested positive for a banned diuretic in a dietary supplement called StarCaps.


Players union attorney Jeff Kessler argued Friday that the NFL didn't properly inform the players about the substance. The union has claimed a league doctor withheld specific information about the diuretic.


NFL attorney Dan Nash argued that claim ? and others ? have already been heard and rejected under an arbitration process in the league's collective bargaining agreement.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hDrvALKE-LxiwOnQaf9GgmB3tUhwD94SOLNO1


Why does it matter where the judge is located?
 
#21
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

i always look into "intent" on making decisions. I don't see the harm in making an exception. Aside from "omg, then u will hafta make exceptions for everyone" argument. Really that's the only downside of it.

Rather than punish people who worked hard all season to get where they are at and take the rest of their season away.
The NFL can't make an "exception", Cee.
 
#22
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

Federal judge blocks NFL's suspension of 5

By CHRIS WILLIAMS ? 1 hour ago


ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) ? A federal judge has blocked the NFL from suspending five players for violating the league's anti-doping policy.
U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson said Friday he needed more time to consider the case after hearing several hours of arguments from the league and the NFL Players Association.


Kevin Williams and Pat Williams of the Minnesota Vikings, and Charles Grant, Deuce McAllister and Will Smith of the New Orleans Saints all were suspended this week for four games. They tested positive for a banned diuretic in the dietary supplement StarCaps.


The union has argued the NFL didn't properly inform players about the substance. The NFL's attorneys argued that claim, and others, had been considered and rejected in a process set out by the league's collective bargaining agreement.


THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.


ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) ? A federal judge in St. Paul is hearing arguments whether five players suspended under the NFL's anti-doping policy should be reinstated.


Kevin Williams and Pat Williams of the Minnesota Vikings and Charles Grant, Deuce McAllister and Will Smith of the New Orleans Saints are hoping to have their four-game suspensions lifted. They tested positive for a banned diuretic in a dietary supplement called StarCaps.


Players union attorney Jeff Kessler argued Friday that the NFL didn't properly inform the players about the substance. The union has claimed a league doctor withheld specific information about the diuretic.


NFL attorney Dan Nash argued that claim ? and others ? have already been heard and rejected under an arbitration process in the league's collective bargaining agreement.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hDrvALKE-LxiwOnQaf9GgmB3tUhwD94SOLNO1


Why does it matter where the judge is located?


Seriously? Two players from Minny don't matter? Yeah, OK.
 
#28
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

There are always loopholes, you should know that being a retired Rent-a-cop. Why do you think there are courtrooms?
Whose retired you ghost? How fucking lame does a person have to be to make up a ghost name? Your probably just as fucking stupid as your original name.
 
#30
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

You're a professional athlete. Shouldn't you find out everything you are putting into your body before using it? Shouldn't you ask an expert? You're body is the most important thing to you and you are putting shit in their that is illegal without knowing? Come on.

The rules are clear. The NFL isn't your babysitter or your mom. You are responsible. They did give out a list of the ban substances. Do you no how long the list would be for every drug/pill that contains one of those substances? It is your responsibility as a player to make sure that what you're putting into your body is legal. I think Texasfan's statement "ignorance of the law doesn't get you out of a ticket" applies here. Just because you ignorantly take it, doesn't mean you shouldn't be in trouble for it.
 
#34
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

The NFL can't make an "exception", Cee.
Yep , no one can. It's always rules over people in the real life, that's part of the reason the world is crap anymore.

Employers don't care much about people these days, they just make up rules and hope u violate one so they can waive goodbye and blow a kiss to you
 
#35
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

Yep , no one can. It's always rules over people in the real life, that's part of the reason the world is crap anymore.

Employers don't care much about people these days, they just make up rules and hope u violate one so they can waive goodbye and blow a kiss to you
I'm with you, bro. Damn trying to find out if these guys are REALLY trying to cheat.
 
#36
Re: So, the Williams boys ARE playing this weekend

I'm with you, bro. Damn trying to find out if these guys are REALLY trying to cheat.
exactly, just take the lazy way out and have everything black and white so if u do this, then that is the punishment.*yawn* on those rules
 
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