THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Jb777

EOG Dedicated
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Southern gentleman Billy Baxter. He will charm you while he is fleecing you.

:lol
 

Jb777

EOG Dedicated
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Koshers were just a couple of Jewish kids from New York who first scored real big in bases in the 70's.
Another big bases player and out was "Chinese John" known simply as "The Chinaman", who pretty much controlled Chinatown.

If you meant did the Koshers ever play pro ball [actually baseball players], the answer is no. I was however for more than a few years, though I never played a game in The Show. Knew many MLB players of the 70's era. Will not divulge the organization or organizations I played for.

My knowledge of the game has helped a bit. Not as much as one would think however. Look at Rose for example. Bases has always been a real tough grind for me. But I usually stay even or make a little....sometimes maybe a bit more than a little. Never
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

valid point...many of them would be just another guy today.............squares today are as sharp as most 1980's sharps......compooters have leveled the playing field

obviously billy has evolved and is still numero uno.......baxter does his thing(halftimes), he needs money like i need a pair of flip flops...... but overall no comparison..todays gambler is miles sharper than the old guys.....and if bookies dont evolve with them they become obsolete also........booking in the 80's was a fkin candy store.....its a fkin job now

Well said....all we had to do was to pick up the phone and know how to write a bet....these math guys scare the hell out of me these days...:LMAO

Remember Chuck Sharpe? Not as good these days as in the past, but he still plays a little....

His NBA sides and totals were gospel back in the 80's...

The Internet has made everyone a wise guy and most get info before the books nowadays...

And for those who even doubt what Steak says about loving it....believe me, it is 110% fact...he enjoys the rollercoaster as much as the kids at Disneyland do....:btj:
It was fun watching Steak interact with gamblers, customers, and clerks....
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

BW, BB, Dinky,{ Davey K(Donut}, AB, Oscar, Artie, Bear, Koshers, and Ronnie Brown, These are the ones off the top of my head. They were all tough to beat. That was the best days in this business for me, because I loved catering to wiseguys. They all knew my voice and they all loved when they had me on the phone back when I was clerking because they all knew they were all on and off the phone in a matter of seconds, I'm not bragging but I was lightening fast on the phone and I was giving them all the changes in between the rundowns. Whenever I held a particular game my bosses knew to hold up that particular game because they all knew I knew every wiseguy that came in. I will never ever forget those good ole days.

Throw in other names like Blackie, Cowboy, Doc Stevens,Jimmy Allure, Shep,Terry and Skip, Davey K, The Swamper and his crew, and countless others...was a blast being on the cutting edge of the early days....the game has passed me by but the memories will always be there...I enjoy talking gambling before the internet days...:cheers
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

steak, and you weren't on the clock 24/7. During football, there were no games on Tuesday-Friday. Many shops didn't open for basketball until after the bowl games, and some waited until after the Super Bowl. Better than banker hours.

No gimmicks, no props, and no nothing....just straight up -110 action and nobody won except for a handfull of gentlemen....and we closed at 5PM Eastern time.....west coast guys would always bitch and complain....
:LMAO
Artie from Vegas would always be our last customer if we ever needed buyback....:houra
 

ArchieBunker

EOG Dedicated
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

valid point...many of them would be just another guy today.............squares today are as sharp as most 1980's sharps......compooters have leveled the playing field

obviously billy has evolved and is still numero uno.......baxter does his thing(halftimes), he needs money like i need a pair of flip flops...... but overall no comparison..todays gambler is miles sharper than the old guys.....and if bookies dont evolve with them they become obsolete also........booking in the 80's was a fkin candy store.....its a fkin job now


+1

I remember when the line changes came over a phone call... all the locals would try to see who didn't have the line moves and get in a play.... now the players tell you the game number and what the line is... computers and the internet have changed everything.
 

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Throw in other names like Blackie, Cowboy, Doc Stevens,Jimmy Allure, Shep,Terry and Skip, Davey K, The Swamper and his crew, and countless others...was a blast being on the cutting edge of the early days....the game has passed me by but the memories will always be there...I enjoy talking gambling before the internet days...:cheers
Yep, Blackie, Jimmy Allure, and the mighty SWAMPER. I had Davey K on there and Judge gave me Cowboy and Tiger to put on there. True story, back when I was in Dominican Republic I was working one day that I will never forget. Mickey Wheels let me quote whatever lines I wanted to quote to the customers because he knew I knew them all. One night I middled two guys on the same game for like 15k, I believe one had 10k on one side and the other one had 5k on the backside. The next morning when I went into work Mickey rolled his wheel chair outside and said come on I want to talk to you, he reached in his pocket and gave me a nickel and said good job on that game. Both players I shaded the line because I knew exactly what side they both were betting on.
 

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Yep, Blackie, Jimmy Allure, and the mighty SWAMPER. I had Davey K on there and Judge gave me Cowboy and Tiger to put on there. True story, back when I was in Dominican Republic I was working one day that I will never forget. Mickey Wheels let me quote whatever lines I wanted to quote to the customers because he knew I knew them all. One night I middled two guys on the same game for like 15k, I believe one had 10k on one side and the other one had 5k on the backside. The next morning when I went into work Mickey rolled his wheel chair outside and said come on I want to talk to you, he reached in his pocket and gave me a nickel and said good job on that game. Both players I shaded the line because I knew exactly what side they both were betting on.
I shaded a many in my lifetime, working for Mickey Wheels, Delmar Larry, and Spiro, one thing about it if I guessed wrong they had to swallow it. One thing about it they had their option to bet whatever side they wish whenever I quoted them a line.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

I shaded a many in my lifetime, working for Mickey Wheels, Delmar Larry, and Spiro, one thing about it if I guessed wrong they had to swallow it. One thing about it they had their option to bet whatever side they wish whenever I quoted them a line.

Great stories Rainbow but a good friend of mine cured me of that habit back in the late eighties..he told me to let the guys bet at the number we have and things will take care of themselves and if I thought I had a crystal ball or tomorrows newspaper, that I was dreaming...I had a high opinon of myself back then as a clerk and thought I knew a lot more than I really did...my buddy told me we had numbers up for a reason and to always let the player play even though I knew what he was playing before he did...:LMAOSound advice but I still couldn't help my self sometimes:btj:
 

steak tartar

EOG Dedicated
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Well said....all we had to do was to pick up the phone and know how to write a bet....these math guys scare the hell out of me these days...:LMAO

Remember Chuck Sharpe? Not as good these days as in the past, but he still plays a little....

His NBA sides and totals were gospel back in the 80's...

The Internet has made everyone a wise guy and most get info before the books nowadays...

And for those who even doubt what Steak says about loving it....believe me, it is 110% fact...he enjoys the rollercoaster as much as the kids at Disneyland do....:btj:
It was fun watching Steak interact with gamblers, customers, and clerks....
chucks NBA totals were RAS on steroids.........it was stunning to daily see a game go from 202 to 213.......he was the best...plus getting down.we were all wiseguys then was too easy
 

$tinky

EOG Senior Member
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Yep, Blackie, Jimmy Allure, and the mighty SWAMPER. I had Davey K on there and Judge gave me Cowboy and Tiger to put on there. True story, back when I was in Dominican Republic I was working one day that I will never forget. Mickey Wheels let me quote whatever lines I wanted to quote to the customers because he knew I knew them all. One night I middled two guys on the same game for like 15k, I believe one had 10k on one side and the other one had 5k on the backside. The next morning when I went into work Mickey rolled his wheel chair outside and said come on I want to talk to you, he reached in his pocket and gave me a nickel and said good job on that game. Both players I shaded the line because I knew exactly what side they both were betting on.

Today's sharp would swap sides and middle your ass. When you go to work the next day your boss would have a nice cup of "deal the fucking line we are using"
 
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Blackie is still active. And still winning.
 

Bushay

NHL Expert
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Great stories Rainbow but a good friend of mine cured me of that habit back in the late eighties..he told me to let the guys bet at the number we have and things will take care of themselves and if I thought I had a crystal ball or tomorrows newspaper, that I was dreaming...I had a high opinon of myself back then as a clerk and thought I knew a lot more than I really did...my buddy told me we had numbers up for a reason and to always let the player play even though I knew what he was playing before he did...:LMAOSound advice but I still couldn't help my self sometimes:btj:


How did you deal with the sharps back then VD. Did you earn off of them or just adjust the line accordingly?
 

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Today's sharp would swap sides and middle your ass. When you go to work the next day your boss would have a nice cup of "deal the fucking line we are using"
That day will never come, because I'm not that stupid to let that happen, just for your information one of my brothers works in Arkansas and they laying them -10 on New England against Baltimore this week, so much for your theory. I will give you one tip, the most important thing in this business is knowing your customers to the tee. It would take me a week to know if you would bet me at a bad line or not, don't try to judge someone's capabilities when you haven't the slightest clue what they can and can't do.
 

High Times

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

I love it how a lot of you guys think the sharps from the 80's somehow can't think today.

:lol

All you young guys need to get over yourselves.......

:btj:
 

$tinky

EOG Senior Member
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

That day will never come, because I'm not that stupid to let that happen, just for your information one of my brothers works in Arkansas and they laying them -10 on New England against Baltimore this week, so much for your theory. I will give you one tip, the most important thing in this business is knowing your customers to the tee. It would take me a week to know if you would bet me at a bad line or not, don't try to judge someone's capabilities when you haven't the slightest clue what they can and can't do.


Your brother sounds like a sharp guy.
 

Tyrone

EOG Veteran
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Rainbow, is your bro working out of an office in Hot Springs?
 

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Rainbow, is your bro working out of an office in Hot Springs?
Yep, and he's good people, what $tinky can't comprehend is you don't give smart people -10 on NE, you give them -8 or -8.5. Its no rocket science to know which ones you give what to. Some people just don't understand or just don't have the feel for the business.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

How did you deal with the sharps back then VD. Did you earn off of them or just adjust the line accordingly?

Let them bet and adjust accordingly...and hope you earn off them....
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

chucks NBA totals were RAS on steroids.........it was stunning to daily see a game go from 202 to 213.......he was the best...plus getting down.we were all wiseguys then was too easy

That's why we were all thrown out of every Dominican sportsbook after only a couple weeks...that was our window of being a wise guy...Eventually the Dominican sportsbooks threw their hands up and joined our side...fun times was betting Chuck's sides with the Dominican books and seeing their faces when they had to move the lines...
 
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Do you ever notice how much website gamblers long for the "old days?" We need more "Pioneer Days."

Makes you wonder if it it is so bad now, and was so good then, why are they still here?
 

pvcpipe

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Yep, and he's good people, what $tinky can't comprehend is you don't give smart people -10 on NE, you give them -8 or -8.5. Its no rocket science to know which ones you give what to. Some people just don't understand or just don't have the feel for the business.

not trying to be dense but I don't understand.
 

KingRevolver

Born Rambler
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Do you ever notice how much website gamblers long for the "old days?" We need more "Pioneer Days."

Makes you wonder if it it is so bad now, and was so good then, why are they still here?

In 20 years, us new schoolers will long for the "old days"... which are right now.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Do you ever notice how much website gamblers long for the "old days?" We need more "Pioneer Days."

Makes you wonder if it it is so bad now, and was so good then, why are they still here?

Must be in remebrance of the old Pioneer Club in Vegas....how were those days JJ?
 

dinkenson

EOG Dedicated
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

not trying to be dense but I don't understand.


for people who dont know the line and for a few who know but lay the favorite anyway
 

MrTop

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

moved for danny k
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Exactly....even Flintstone and myself moved for the Koshers during the early 90's...they had two great years, but after that they couldn't pick their nose....when they came in with the orders all we could do is shake our heads and wonder why we were not booking these plays...
 

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT:

That's why we were all thrown out of every Dominican sportsbook after only a couple weeks...that was our window of being a wise guy...Eventually the Dominican sportsbooks threw their hands up and joined our side...fun times was betting Chuck's sides with the Dominican books and seeing their faces when they had to move the lines...
When I was in Dominican I beat their brains out and I bet them before Chuck played in the morning, Brian Green who owns Digital Solutions in Costa Rica was working for Mickey Wheels at the time, and he was real close friends with Roxy and was giving his overnight NBA lines to Brian and thats how I beat them never did I get booted, did get stalled getting paid a few times but at the end I got paid everything I had coming.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Brian was a trainwreck during those days....good to see him doing well now....
He had a few vices....
 

rainbow

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Brian was a trainwreck during those days....good to see him doing well now....
He had a few vices....
Brian has come a long way, he changed his life completely around for the best. I will never forget for my 38th birthday Brian gave me a $100.00 and told me to go take that gal home with you Happy birthday. I can't count how many presidente beers I drank that night. That was some good ole days in the DR.:cheers
 

Tyrone

EOG Veteran
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Jeff Jones, I guess why Rainbow calls this the Pioneer days, its because that is exactly what it is. They were clerks for the FIRST (PIONEERS) bookmakers to leave the USA and open a call center for the purpose of taking wagers in a foreign country. They were young kids, single and looking for adventure. They and their bosses went to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Venezuela and finally Costa Rica and set up shop not knowing the legal climate or anything else about these countries. They didn't speak the language either. Pretty much every one of them have been arrested and sat in a banana republic jail for their efforts. Then came the internet with terrible infrastructures as the countries were slow to go online. These people started the offshore bookmaking business, if thats not a pioneer, then what is?
 

High Times

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Jeff Jones, I guess why Rainbow calls this the Pioneer days, its because that is exactly what it is. They were clerks for the FIRST (PIONEERS) bookmakers to leave the USA and open a call center for the purpose of taking wagers in a foreign country. They were young kids, single and looking for adventure. They and their bosses went to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Venezuela and finally Costa Rica and set up shop not knowing the legal climate or anything else about these countries. They didn't speak the language either. Pretty much every one of them have been arrested and sat in a banana republic jail for their efforts. Then came the internet with terrible infrastructures as the countries were slow to go online. These people started the offshore bookmaking business, if thats not a pioneer, then what is?


It also brought out all the thieves ........ and leaches

:btj:
 

Tyrone

EOG Veteran
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

opportunity always brings out scammers
 

$tinky

EOG Senior Member
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

I saw my buddy today who is close to the Swamper. I hear he is not doing well.
 

Tyrone

EOG Veteran
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Health wise or gambling wise?
 

$tinky

EOG Senior Member
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Health wise or gambling wise?

From what I gathered both. He's 83 yrs old though. I just got the feeling that he's seen his better days. I don't know him personally, but I do know and trust the guy I was talking to. He is an old school guy and has been around awhile. He'd walk thru fire for eugene.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Re: BACK IN THE PIONEER DAYS THESE WERE THE TOUGHEST WISEGUYS TO BEAT

Hate hearing news like this Stinky....Frankie M. passing away hit me pretty hard and now hearing Eugene is not doing well is not the kind of news I like to hear...three good friends of mine from Grande's office have passed away in the last few years...man am I getting old...
 
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