Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
- Thread starter PO69
- Start date
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
He's a 1st ballot Hall of Famer even if his ballot consisted of Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Ted Williams, and other all-time greats. Before Bonds ever touched a steroid he was one of the three greatest players of all time.
He's a 1st ballot Hall of Famer even if his ballot consisted of Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Ted Williams, and other all-time greats. Before Bonds ever touched a steroid he was one of the three greatest players of all time.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Let me finish the story.
His ego got big, then his hat size followed. He doesn't hit 700 HR's without cheating. He was not a top three player before cheating.
Let me finish the story.
His ego got big, then his hat size followed. He doesn't hit 700 HR's without cheating. He was not a top three player before cheating.
gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
without the steroids (which i believe he took after the 99 season which he only played 102 gms due to injury) there are NO 73 hrs in 2001 to beat mcgwire's record and there
are NO 762 to beat hank.
think about that for a minute. let's assume he was on roids from 2000 onwards which i believe is very safe to say based on the numbers, and he hit 317 of his 762 hrs while on steroids
that is insane
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml
without the steroids (which i believe he took after the 99 season which he only played 102 gms due to injury) there are NO 73 hrs in 2001 to beat mcgwire's record and there
are NO 762 to beat hank.
think about that for a minute. let's assume he was on roids from 2000 onwards which i believe is very safe to say based on the numbers, and he hit 317 of his 762 hrs while on steroids
that is insane
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml
gridironguy
EOG Veteran
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
very simple and plausible theory: after the 99 season where he only played 102 gms due to injuries, he takes the roids because he knows his production will slip because his body is slipping. it is just one season after the mcgwire and sosa baseball hr lovefest, and bonds says fukk it, i'm gona take roids and beat mcgwires record and hank aaron's too
8 seasons on roids and 317 hrs after starting the roids
NO WAY NO HOW WAS THIS GUY TOP 3 EVER BEFORE TAKING THE ROIDS
hall of famer before roids? yes
top 3 ballplayer ever? no fukking way
very simple and plausible theory: after the 99 season where he only played 102 gms due to injuries, he takes the roids because he knows his production will slip because his body is slipping. it is just one season after the mcgwire and sosa baseball hr lovefest, and bonds says fukk it, i'm gona take roids and beat mcgwires record and hank aaron's too
8 seasons on roids and 317 hrs after starting the roids
NO WAY NO HOW WAS THIS GUY TOP 3 EVER BEFORE TAKING THE ROIDS
hall of famer before roids? yes
top 3 ballplayer ever? no fukking way
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
If you don't put in Bonds, you may as well cancel the HOF and don't have one.
Also, unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that every player who is currently in the HOF never cheated even one time, you have to let him in. Sure, we would all love to believe that the player of yesteryear never broke the rules but cmon, they all did it. Think of the stuff that went on back in the 'day'.
Jim Kaat made a good point about this. He said that any juicing before 2004 (or was it 2001?) wasn't against the rules. What he did WAS against the rules. Kitty said that he threw pitches that were forbidden from the rule book (im guessing spitters or stuff like that) and even though some believe that steroids is worse than spitballs, its still rules vs no rules.
Also, you have to factor in that many of Bonds homeruns were hit off pitchers who were also on the juice. Bonds just evened up the score.
If you don't put in Bonds, you may as well cancel the HOF and don't have one.
Also, unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that every player who is currently in the HOF never cheated even one time, you have to let him in. Sure, we would all love to believe that the player of yesteryear never broke the rules but cmon, they all did it. Think of the stuff that went on back in the 'day'.
Jim Kaat made a good point about this. He said that any juicing before 2004 (or was it 2001?) wasn't against the rules. What he did WAS against the rules. Kitty said that he threw pitches that were forbidden from the rule book (im guessing spitters or stuff like that) and even though some believe that steroids is worse than spitballs, its still rules vs no rules.
Also, you have to factor in that many of Bonds homeruns were hit off pitchers who were also on the juice. Bonds just evened up the score.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
And on the flipside, look at the resume of Mr Clemens after he got hurt.
I want to hear the other two included with Bonds for all-time best. Tim Raines was on the HOF track when cocaine derailed it.
And on the flipside, look at the resume of Mr Clemens after he got hurt.
I want to hear the other two included with Bonds for all-time best. Tim Raines was on the HOF track when cocaine derailed it.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Do you think Maddux took roids?
Do you think Maddux took roids?
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
I don't know who took them and who did not, its very hard to say.
I don't know who took them and who did not, its very hard to say.
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Barry Bonds was a three time MVP before he started taking steroids. He was a 9 time GG winner before he started taking steroids. He had gone 30-30 and was a three hundred hitter. You are also saying his career would have just ended if he didn't take 'roids. You have to look at his projected numbers. He still would have ended up as the only 500-500 guy. With all his Gold Gloves, and going 500-500, and his MVP awards I would have to say he was a top 5 pre-steroids. 3 was a little high.
Barry Bonds was a three time MVP before he started taking steroids. He was a 9 time GG winner before he started taking steroids. He had gone 30-30 and was a three hundred hitter. You are also saying his career would have just ended if he didn't take 'roids. You have to look at his projected numbers. He still would have ended up as the only 500-500 guy. With all his Gold Gloves, and going 500-500, and his MVP awards I would have to say he was a top 5 pre-steroids. 3 was a little high.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Take a guess.
Take a guess.
Doug
2
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
speaking of cocaine:
are MLB players tested for it ?
I don't think it would help over the course of a season....
but
I think it could help, used selectively
how about Manny Ramirez possibly batting, in a playoff game, while wired ?
I think it would make him ( or anybody else) perform better, IN THAT GAME. It would hurt if used everyday, but for one big game, I think it COULD enhance performance.
One certainly feels good when coked up !
I haven't used it regularly myself in 15 years, except for one time about 5 years ago. Offer me a line, I'll snort it ( if I think it is the good stuff)!
I really think it would help, in a big game.
speaking of cocaine:
are MLB players tested for it ?
I don't think it would help over the course of a season....
but
I think it could help, used selectively
how about Manny Ramirez possibly batting, in a playoff game, while wired ?
I think it would make him ( or anybody else) perform better, IN THAT GAME. It would hurt if used everyday, but for one big game, I think it COULD enhance performance.
One certainly feels good when coked up !
I haven't used it regularly myself in 15 years, except for one time about 5 years ago. Offer me a line, I'll snort it ( if I think it is the good stuff)!
I really think it would help, in a big game.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Name the other four. If he was so great, he didn't need them, right? He took them for two reasons - greed and ego.
Name the other four. If he was so great, he didn't need them, right? He took them for two reasons - greed and ego.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
They are tested for it. Remember when Raines admitted having a vile of coke in his back pocket, and tore the pocket sliding?
They are tested for it. Remember when Raines admitted having a vile of coke in his back pocket, and tore the pocket sliding?
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Ruth
Mays
Williams
Aaron
Bonds
Gehrig
I think Shoeless Joe would have been up there had his career not been taken from him.
Ruth
Mays
Williams
Aaron
Bonds
Gehrig
I think Shoeless Joe would have been up there had his career not been taken from him.
Doug
2
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
I don't recall that. Are they tested aggressively, or just some random spot checks ?
What's the penalty ( 1st time) ?
I don't recall that. Are they tested aggressively, or just some random spot checks ?
What's the penalty ( 1st time) ?
Flamingo kid
Everybody's hands go UP!
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Why should i guess. Just put the players with the best statistics in the HALL. Its not rocket science.
Why should i guess. Just put the players with the best statistics in the HALL. Its not rocket science.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
No.
No.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Test on probable cause. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_drug_policy
Test on probable cause. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_drug_policy
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
FK-how can you say a player is top 5 when he never won a title?
Rickey Henderson could be top 5-10.
FK-how can you say a player is top 5 when he never won a title?
Rickey Henderson could be top 5-10.
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
O'Malley made it last year. I assumed he was in. The system needs to include sportscasters voting along with writers.
O'Malley made it last year. I assumed he was in. The system needs to include sportscasters voting along with writers.
Doc Mercer
EOG Master
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
Lot of "old farts" will not vote for Bonds ...
sorry ... reality sucks
Lot of "old farts" will not vote for Bonds ...
sorry ... reality sucks
Timely Hero
Jacoby Blows
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
O'Malley is in the Hall of Fame. What are you talking about?
O'Malley is in the Hall of Fame. What are you talking about?
Re: Time for a MLB discussion thread: Barry Bonds, 1st ballot Hall of Fame?
First Ballot, no chance. Writers are stubborn and theres a decent chance he doesnt get in at all.
Talent wise, no question but I think the baggage will keep him out. If the perjury charges stick and he's convicted he's never getting in
First Ballot, no chance. Writers are stubborn and theres a decent chance he doesnt get in at all.
Talent wise, no question but I think the baggage will keep him out. If the perjury charges stick and he's convicted he's never getting in