Worst President Ever
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
SPORTSADVISORY
EOG Member
Stephen said:
.....and you're just now figuring this out?
Uhhhhhhmmmm............................STUPID!
JC
EOG Veteran
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/presrankings1.html
I would put Jefferson very high on my best list.
Click on any President below:
http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/
I would put Jefferson very high on my best list.
Click on any President below:
http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/
Glaken
1
Where would JFK and Reagan fall on both your scales JC and Stephen? Was JFK more popular than good although at the time it is unfair to judge his record; I have often wondered what his second term would have been like. As for RR, I believe that the USA needed a leader at the time and he was personable.
JC
EOG Veteran
Not a big JFK fan.
I am split on Reagan, liked the talk, hated a lot of the policies. He was right on the tax cuts, but he never got spending under control. The deficits were an absolute disgrace. I hated his war on drugs and consequently civil liberties. I do think he had a strong hand in winning the cold war, yet I don't like the way he embraced Gorbachev after we won, that piece of shit KGB chief.
I am split on Reagan, liked the talk, hated a lot of the policies. He was right on the tax cuts, but he never got spending under control. The deficits were an absolute disgrace. I hated his war on drugs and consequently civil liberties. I do think he had a strong hand in winning the cold war, yet I don't like the way he embraced Gorbachev after we won, that piece of shit KGB chief.
I thought JFK was good and was on his way to becoming great. This isn't to say he didn't make mistakes. He did. His legacy would have been if he had been successful getting civil rights legislation through like LBJ did. I do believe Kennedy was astute enough to have pulled us out of Vietnam much sooner than LBJ.
Disagreed with much of Reagan's policies and doctrine. He may have been the luckiest president of all time. So he gets rated fairly high because the Soviet Union fell during his watch.
Disagreed with much of Reagan's policies and doctrine. He may have been the luckiest president of all time. So he gets rated fairly high because the Soviet Union fell during his watch.
Glaken
1
Probably more of a private discussion for later on a few of your points...BUT ....What are your thoughts and do you believe there is any truth to the GH Bush side of the campaign working out a back door deal to delay the hostage release in Iran to benefit the ticket? I have heard this many times and mostly from Republican detractors here in Georgia....but I could believe it.
Chuck Sims
EOG Dedicated
Glaken, I have seen a documentary on the Iran hostage crisis. The Iranians knew when Reagan won he would not hesitate to invade Iran if need be. The Iranians knew they better release the hostages and they agreed to. But to burn Carter they waited until Reagan was sworn in to release them.
I liked Ronnie RAY-GUN, because he didn't take any chit! MAY'N!
Glaken, the theory you brought up may have some truth to it, but the Iranians knew that Reagan planned on bombing the chit out of them ASAP! If they were not released. Being Catholic I am a JFK man, but the Vietnam War was his baby. He promised SV the world and LBJ had that quagmire dropped in his lap.
Glaken, the theory you brought up may have some truth to it, but the Iranians knew that Reagan planned on bombing the chit out of them ASAP! If they were not released. Being Catholic I am a JFK man, but the Vietnam War was his baby. He promised SV the world and LBJ had that quagmire dropped in his lap.
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Best president, George Washington. Guy left everything he had to lead a bankrupt, starving ill equipped army of farmers and militia against mercenaries of Britain. Without him, there would be no presidents, we would still be bowing to the monarchy. The first and the best. Actually did not even want the job.
Worst has to be Grant. From General George to General Grant. That was the end of the career military presidents. Grant was the ultimate drunken fool that got in office by assassination. A total disgrace, unable to work with congress, or accomplish anything, very close to being first president impeached.
JFK. The good die young, so he is a legend, plus the conspiracy thoeries. As a president, bickered with Republican congress. Was not the man to lead us in Nam. That doctrine was actually put in place by Truman, then continued by Ike and JFK. It just fell apart while JFK was in office. Made deals with the mobs and other unsavory groups to get elected. After getting elected, appointed little Bobby AG. He in turn abused his office, attacking all who helped them get to where they were, the ultimate betrayal. Neither led a long life after that. Bay of pigs, missile crisis, not good.
Ronnie Ray gun. A man not much sharper than G Dub. But surrounded himself with very good advisors. Took our country out of the dumps, which Carter dragged us into. Pressured Soviets to the point of collapse, ended a 40 year old cold war. Probably had advanced alzhiemers while still in office. History will judge him kindly.
Jimmy Carter, worst family, worst policies, worst 4 years of our modern history. Drunken brother Billy, urinating in public for our foreign diplomats. Beer named after him. Momma hanging out with Hustler Larry Flint. Amy ugly as sin. Watched unarmed rabble take our embassy in Iraq, did nothing for close to 500 days. Watched gas prices skyrocket, US fall in world respect. Killed demos for a decade or more. The Kinks sang a song for him, "Catch me now I'm Falling".
There was one president who got sworn in office in rainstorm, got pneumonia and died. Forget which one, but he was obviously ineffective.
Presidents to hold office during crises and do well, Abe Lincoln and FDR. What could they have done if not waging a Civil War and a World War. They did a lot still. Jefferson also, helped carry on what George started.
I think the biggest difference from George W. to Ronnie is the difference of advisors. Can't blame him for 9/11, but Iraq is his baby, no doubt. He has to be one of the unluckiest presidents ever. Even mother nature hates him.
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
Worst has to be Grant. From General George to General Grant. That was the end of the career military presidents. Grant was the ultimate drunken fool that got in office by assassination. A total disgrace, unable to work with congress, or accomplish anything, very close to being first president impeached.
JFK. The good die young, so he is a legend, plus the conspiracy thoeries. As a president, bickered with Republican congress. Was not the man to lead us in Nam. That doctrine was actually put in place by Truman, then continued by Ike and JFK. It just fell apart while JFK was in office. Made deals with the mobs and other unsavory groups to get elected. After getting elected, appointed little Bobby AG. He in turn abused his office, attacking all who helped them get to where they were, the ultimate betrayal. Neither led a long life after that. Bay of pigs, missile crisis, not good.
Ronnie Ray gun. A man not much sharper than G Dub. But surrounded himself with very good advisors. Took our country out of the dumps, which Carter dragged us into. Pressured Soviets to the point of collapse, ended a 40 year old cold war. Probably had advanced alzhiemers while still in office. History will judge him kindly.
Jimmy Carter, worst family, worst policies, worst 4 years of our modern history. Drunken brother Billy, urinating in public for our foreign diplomats. Beer named after him. Momma hanging out with Hustler Larry Flint. Amy ugly as sin. Watched unarmed rabble take our embassy in Iraq, did nothing for close to 500 days. Watched gas prices skyrocket, US fall in world respect. Killed demos for a decade or more. The Kinks sang a song for him, "Catch me now I'm Falling".
There was one president who got sworn in office in rainstorm, got pneumonia and died. Forget which one, but he was obviously ineffective.
Presidents to hold office during crises and do well, Abe Lincoln and FDR. What could they have done if not waging a Civil War and a World War. They did a lot still. Jefferson also, helped carry on what George started.
I think the biggest difference from George W. to Ronnie is the difference of advisors. Can't blame him for 9/11, but Iraq is his baby, no doubt. He has to be one of the unluckiest presidents ever. Even mother nature hates him.
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
I Vote for One of The Most Underrated of them all!!!
I Vote for One of The Most Underrated of them all!!!
I always thought TRUMAN was one of the BEST and here is what someone else described about him which I agree with...
Historians agree that Harry S. Truman ranks HIGH on the ladder of presidential significance. If GREATNESS is measured by impact, there can be no doubt that Truman's shadow weighed greatly upon the national landscape. Truman did more to set the agenda for the generations that followed than perhaps any other president in history except FDR and George Washington, especially in foreign policy.
His confrontation with the Soviet Union literally shaped the entire world for the next fifty years. His economic reconversion programs at home and abroad set the stage for an unprecedented era of prosperity.
Try thinking about NATO, the Marshall Plan, Korea, Atomic bomb diplomacy, and the Cold War without TRUMAN as the essential ingredient. It is IMPOSSIBLE....
His character, decisiveness, and perspective shaped all of the above. His administration, unlike Andrew Johnson's after the Civil War, or Harding's after World War I, defined the post-war world in broad strokes and precise detail.
Every president since Truman followed the path he set and struggled to deal with the policies, institutions, and values that he so firmly stitched into the social, political, and economic fabric of post-war America.
When historians argue about Truman, they debate the value of his accomplishments not their extent or significance.
Could the Cold War have been avoided if Truman had been willing to take more seriously the security needs of the Soviet Union? Was the atomic bomb necessary to end World War II? Might the New Deal coalition of labor, ethnic minorities, and farmers have been strengthened if Truman had more fully embraced labor and women in his domestic reconversion policies after the war? Did his anti-communist rhetoric in support of the Cold War lay the foundation for the excesses of McCarthyism? Should he have allowed General Douglas MacArthur to expand the Korean War into a conflict with China? What were the negative consequences of the enormously expanded military establishment that he erected in peacetime America?
Whatever the answers to these questions, there can be no doubt but that the plain-speaking president from Independence, Missouri, left his mark on the nation.
At home, his presidency shepherded the difficult transition from an era of depression and world war to one of economic prosperity?if not abundance?that was unprecedented in American history. More than a "maintainer" of New Deal reforms, Truman institutionalized them and set the tone for a new era of reforms that would occur in the 1960s. His contributions to civil rights were milestones for the next generation to implement and build upon. When modern-day historians rank Truman, they place him among the top ten presidents, and some have him just below FDR, Lincoln, and George Washington. :+thumbs-2
THE SHRINK
I Vote for One of The Most Underrated of them all!!!
I always thought TRUMAN was one of the BEST and here is what someone else described about him which I agree with...
Historians agree that Harry S. Truman ranks HIGH on the ladder of presidential significance. If GREATNESS is measured by impact, there can be no doubt that Truman's shadow weighed greatly upon the national landscape. Truman did more to set the agenda for the generations that followed than perhaps any other president in history except FDR and George Washington, especially in foreign policy.
His confrontation with the Soviet Union literally shaped the entire world for the next fifty years. His economic reconversion programs at home and abroad set the stage for an unprecedented era of prosperity.
Try thinking about NATO, the Marshall Plan, Korea, Atomic bomb diplomacy, and the Cold War without TRUMAN as the essential ingredient. It is IMPOSSIBLE....
His character, decisiveness, and perspective shaped all of the above. His administration, unlike Andrew Johnson's after the Civil War, or Harding's after World War I, defined the post-war world in broad strokes and precise detail.
Every president since Truman followed the path he set and struggled to deal with the policies, institutions, and values that he so firmly stitched into the social, political, and economic fabric of post-war America.
When historians argue about Truman, they debate the value of his accomplishments not their extent or significance.
Could the Cold War have been avoided if Truman had been willing to take more seriously the security needs of the Soviet Union? Was the atomic bomb necessary to end World War II? Might the New Deal coalition of labor, ethnic minorities, and farmers have been strengthened if Truman had more fully embraced labor and women in his domestic reconversion policies after the war? Did his anti-communist rhetoric in support of the Cold War lay the foundation for the excesses of McCarthyism? Should he have allowed General Douglas MacArthur to expand the Korean War into a conflict with China? What were the negative consequences of the enormously expanded military establishment that he erected in peacetime America?
Whatever the answers to these questions, there can be no doubt but that the plain-speaking president from Independence, Missouri, left his mark on the nation.
At home, his presidency shepherded the difficult transition from an era of depression and world war to one of economic prosperity?if not abundance?that was unprecedented in American history. More than a "maintainer" of New Deal reforms, Truman institutionalized them and set the tone for a new era of reforms that would occur in the 1960s. His contributions to civil rights were milestones for the next generation to implement and build upon. When modern-day historians rank Truman, they place him among the top ten presidents, and some have him just below FDR, Lincoln, and George Washington. :+thumbs-2
THE SHRINK
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
The most underrated worst president? :+signs99-
The SHRINK, being you are posting like a newbie today, I will give you my newbie posting advice.
Hey FROG, you have such a way with words, how can I post like you?
Easy newbie, let me show you how. First you read the topic. It is after the word thread:. Then you press the word reply, and post what you think you would like to say. So to simplify it, read thread, post reply.
Best Wishes...OF :+waving-5
The SHRINK, being you are posting like a newbie today, I will give you my newbie posting advice.
Hey FROG, you have such a way with words, how can I post like you?
Easy newbie, let me show you how. First you read the topic. It is after the word thread:. Then you press the word reply, and post what you think you would like to say. So to simplify it, read thread, post reply.
Best Wishes...OF :+waving-5
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Chuck Sims said:
Documentary? I was in the military, we hads subs sitting off the coast and the running joke was, what is green, glowing and dead in the Middle East. Iran 10 minutes after Ronnie is elected. He brings along hawkish Alex Haig as his big stick and pretty much says, once we are in office, the waiting game is over. The Iranians were shitting bricks. I trained with them in Groton CT. When they were our friends, and the Shah was our best buddy. These Iranians sailors were actually pretty good guys. They were cool to me. But then when our buddy fell, they were uncool, at least that is what I was told. They sank their own sub without being fired on. No one was in charge after the coup. All of the military fled the country when the Shah did. Carter's rescue attempt one of the worst military/rescue blunders ever attempted. Mixed military branches, haphazardly put together, fighting over a plan, to appease all, had no chance of working. A few seal teams and some spec forces was all that was needed. But again, what do you expect from the worst. Killed the military by giving us 2.2% raise while interests rates are at 15% and inflation was running amok. First time I ever saw gas lines also. What a stiff. Easily the worst.
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
And...
Carter killed the B1 bomber after only a handful were built, weaking the military and putting many military contractor employees out of work. He must have hated life when he was in the Navy because upon becoming president he did nothing but shit on the military.
Carter killed the B1 bomber after only a handful were built, weaking the military and putting many military contractor employees out of work. He must have hated life when he was in the Navy because upon becoming president he did nothing but shit on the military.
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Never seen a president lose so many blocks of voters so fast. Ronnie and George Sr. loved the military. Carter just did not get who was on the front line. Who was pressuring the commies to hang it up. The cold war would have gone on forever as long as he was in office. He had zero respect from his own side, none from the world and got landslided out faster than you can say lame duck. Did build King's Bay to help out the home state, and subsidize peanuts to, well, help out his fellow peanut growers. Also got semi peace between Isreal/Egypt. Fairly adept diplomat.
The hostage crisis was mishandled from jump. Technically that Embassy is our national territory. When it was invaded by the students, not the miltary, it was an act of aggression, not maybe they have WOMDs. We had a lot of friendlies in the country, and no one was in charge. There was no resistance, except unarmed mobs who would effectively be human shields against our tanks. Later they were against Iraq. Since carter was a diplomat vs a leader he thought he could negotiate a peaceful settlement, get all the hostages back unharmed. A gross miscalculation as there was no one in charge to negotiate with, and everyday the hostges stayed hostage Carter looked more inept, and Iran looked stronger. I stopped counting at day 444.
What we should have done was just flat out said, we are coming to get our people back, you can keep the country. If you harm one American, we will keep the country. They were forming their own cleric led government, with Ayatolla Khoemeni finally emerging as the chief villian. They wanted the country, not the hostages. We took Iraq in what 10 days? Iran would have taken 2 days. They had zero military resistance. All of us in the military are totally demoralized. These our are Americans, why are we not stomping the shit out of the hostage takers? Why are we not kicking ass and getting our people back? Brutal.
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
The hostage crisis was mishandled from jump. Technically that Embassy is our national territory. When it was invaded by the students, not the miltary, it was an act of aggression, not maybe they have WOMDs. We had a lot of friendlies in the country, and no one was in charge. There was no resistance, except unarmed mobs who would effectively be human shields against our tanks. Later they were against Iraq. Since carter was a diplomat vs a leader he thought he could negotiate a peaceful settlement, get all the hostages back unharmed. A gross miscalculation as there was no one in charge to negotiate with, and everyday the hostges stayed hostage Carter looked more inept, and Iran looked stronger. I stopped counting at day 444.
What we should have done was just flat out said, we are coming to get our people back, you can keep the country. If you harm one American, we will keep the country. They were forming their own cleric led government, with Ayatolla Khoemeni finally emerging as the chief villian. They wanted the country, not the hostages. We took Iraq in what 10 days? Iran would have taken 2 days. They had zero military resistance. All of us in the military are totally demoralized. These our are Americans, why are we not stomping the shit out of the hostage takers? Why are we not kicking ass and getting our people back? Brutal.
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Timing is everything? Hold that same election now and he is toast. His dad would have never lost to Clinton if the election was held after the real gulf war. Better be popular when election time comes around. Is that it?
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
Best Wishes...OF:+waving-5
Ari Gold
2
Sam Odom
Sam Odom
This is what it tells you:
Rove knows how to sway 50.5% of the flock with his swift boat payoffs and how to drop gay marraige issues on Ohio ballots so while the Christian right is protecting everyone from "those" people having marital rights they will flick a lever for W while driving in from the rural areas. Also dropping a Bin Laden tape the weekend before the election , after they guarantee an October surprise, where he bashes Bush always rallies their base with the "we will show him" attitude. Where are the "wolves" now that were circling us in those October ads? Having a campaign contributing company control voting machines helps also that generate no paper trail.
Best line is when Bush tells the Syrian president to stop letting terrorists enter Iraq from his borders and he tells Bush he should pay more attention to "Natural Disasters" inside his borders.:nono
Sam Odom
This is what it tells you:
Rove knows how to sway 50.5% of the flock with his swift boat payoffs and how to drop gay marraige issues on Ohio ballots so while the Christian right is protecting everyone from "those" people having marital rights they will flick a lever for W while driving in from the rural areas. Also dropping a Bin Laden tape the weekend before the election , after they guarantee an October surprise, where he bashes Bush always rallies their base with the "we will show him" attitude. Where are the "wolves" now that were circling us in those October ads? Having a campaign contributing company control voting machines helps also that generate no paper trail.
Best line is when Bush tells the Syrian president to stop letting terrorists enter Iraq from his borders and he tells Bush he should pay more attention to "Natural Disasters" inside his borders.:nono
Real question lies in the nominations. I believe that John Kerry was simply unelectable. Did the east coast, blue blood, democrat elitists for one minute even consider whether Kerry would appeal to anyone but themselves?
Sam Odom
EOG Master
Ari Gold said:
I believe Bush won by 3% points. Lefties give Rove too much credit and blame the 'hayseed' citizenry too much, by doing so the Dem party doesnt have to grade itself and wonder why it has lost the political hold it once had on the USA. The fact that the Repubs own the House, Senate, White House and arguably the S.Court is self-evident that the Dem party (at this time) is in shambles.
Hillary is so polarizing she can turn blue states to red.Sam Odom said:
OMNIVOROUS FROG
EOG Master
Election is McCain's to lose.
Best wishes...OF:+waving-5
Best wishes...OF:+waving-5
X
xpanda
Guest
Sam: Please tell me that by now you've realised that Bush was re-elected because he somehow convinced the country of two things: 1. you should be scared shitless of terrorists during every waking minute and 2. only he can save you from the boogeyman.
Literally the day after the election, the terror threats stopped. All that fearmongering that you heard day in and day out totally stopped.
Why the hell do you suppose that is???
Literally the day after the election, the terror threats stopped. All that fearmongering that you heard day in and day out totally stopped.
Why the hell do you suppose that is???
X
xpanda
Guest
The story of scaring the bejeesus out of your constituents/flock/slaves etc. is as old as is governance. EVERY SINGLE form of government in our history has used this tactic. Machiavelli understood it well, and this administration understands Machiavelli well.
If Bush's terror alerts weren't strictly for the purposes of winning this election, then please explain to me why they've stopped? I haven't seen the Homeland Security guy on tv going on about data they've received that "scares us but we don't know anything cause it's not specific but jesus this is scary" since the election.
Why a complete and utter absence of what was once a weekly press conference????
Did terrorism just STOP altogether on November 5th?
If Bush's terror alerts weren't strictly for the purposes of winning this election, then please explain to me why they've stopped? I haven't seen the Homeland Security guy on tv going on about data they've received that "scares us but we don't know anything cause it's not specific but jesus this is scary" since the election.
Why a complete and utter absence of what was once a weekly press conference????
Did terrorism just STOP altogether on November 5th?
Froggie,
:+signs1-6
:+signs1-6
XPANDA, the reason W won is because he was the best man in the race. Using whatever tactics or resources it took to get there. As you said it's been going on forever. Look, I couldn't pick Paul Martin out of a line up, but I'm sure he did what he had to do to get in office. MAY'M!
GODBLESSAMERICA!!!
GODBLESSAMERICA!!!