Would you consider JK a tout?

Tuckman

Uh Poster
He gets paid to push this product, release plays, draw interest to himself then ask for deposits to keep the site up and running.

He might not be your typical sales pitching tout, but he's not really far off it either.

Just a discussion, JK knows I have no beef with him.
 

Ray Luca

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

He is far off. A tout is someone who directly gets paid for a pick regardless if that said pick wins (in most cases).

JK runs a forum. The forum receives income from advertisers.

And furthermore, his own selections have a documented winning percentage for over a year.

You really became a jackoff
 

munson15

I want winners...
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I would not consider him a tout unless he ran a separate service which charged to see his selections. Just my .02.:cheers
 
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Actually, I'm pretty pleased with Joan.

Good picks, good forum, smooth personality.

...he's certainly not bi-polar like me.
 

Tuckman

Uh Poster
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

He is far off. A tout is someone who directly gets paid for a pick regardless if that said pick wins (in most cases).

JK runs a forum. The forum receives income from advertisers.

And furthermore, his own selections have a documented winning percentage for over a year.

You really became a jackoff

The question was posed to me so i thought i would ask, its not me attacking him but a simple debate. JK gets paid to post plays (which draws interest to this site) and run a radio show imo (which hes damn good at). Hes definatly not here for his offshore expertise so there is a motive in having him on board.

The forum receives income from advertisers

The forum recievies money from posters depositing/losing. Not many books posting flat fee's these days
 

tripp

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I wouldn't have thought of him as a tout but tuck makes an interesting point that in a way he is getting paid to give out his plays in the same way a tout is.
 

Tuckman

Uh Poster
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Not that it has any bearing but did not know this. Please explain how that works

5 years ago Sportsbooks were begging to pay flat advertising fee's to be on a forum during the "high peeks" off the Offshore Gambling world. Now books wanna run affiliate deals only because people just are not posting up alot these days. Why pay a flat fee when you just offer a kickback on posters losses to these forums. Its the same as me putting you into a book, im not gonna do it for just my free time, i will expect some sorta return if you lose. There are a few books who still pay a flat fee, but its few and far between and a thing of the past.

You get a new book that pops up, that people are not already signed up thru and you push the shit out of it as you get them linked thru your forum, you get the kickbacks as far as the affiliate deal goes, its not a one time thing, that poster is now attached to your sheet and you get the % back till the very end..

However you risk sending your posters to slaughter with new books, examples are Synbet.
 
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I do not consider John a tout. I more consider him to be the general manager of sorts for EOG. Naturally, since this is a gambling forum and that's his expertise, he shares some of his plays and analysis with the board. The fact of the matter is someone needs to be "in charge" and it makes sense that whoever is posts plays. I would probably find it odd if John or whoever else was the head guy here didn't post plays.
 

Ray Luca

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

However you risk sending your posters to slaughter with new books, examples are Synbet.

I'll pay more attention to this after race day....but where I come from, if you put me into a place and are earning anything off it and they go bad, u should make good
 

JCROM777

EOG Addicted
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

JK is not a tout. He justs gives his opinion on games. Whether or not you play his selections
is fine with him. Vegas would be a better place to live if there were more John Kelly's here.
:pop:
 

Heim

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

5 years ago Sportsbooks were begging to pay flat advertising fee's to be on a forum during the "high peeks" off the Offshore Gambling world. Now books wanna run affiliate deals only because people just are not posting up alot these days. Why pay a flat fee when you just offer a kickback on posters losses to these forums. Its the same as me putting you into a book, im not gonna do it for just my free time, i will expect some sorta return if you lose. There are a few books who still pay a flat fee, but its few and far between and a thing of the past.

You get a new book that pops up, that people are not already signed up thru and you push the shit out of it as you get them linked thru your forum, you get the kickbacks as far as the affiliate deal goes, its not a one time thing, that poster is now attached to your sheet and you get the % back till the very end..

However you risk sending your posters to slaughter with new books, examples are Synbet.



Perfect example of how Dave Scandaliato has survived all these years....

Maybe the all-time biggest offshore pimp.
 

jfhst18

EOG Veteran
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Vegas would be a better place to live if there were more John Kelly's here.
:pop:

Well said...John is as clean as I can imagine a media person being in this dirty business. His passion for finding and giving a voice to in-the-trenches sports bettors is a gift to anyone who's immersed in this life.

I also appreciate Tuckman for raising the question. There's a spectrum from scum touts to journalsim-clad touts, and we need the eternal vigilance of discussion to stay clear on who's doing what.
 

railbird

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I think the sports advisory bisness gets a bad rap. There is some bad apples out there, but like Mark Simons said a lot of good honest handicappers who spend lots of time and hvae lots of talent.
 

Ray Luca

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I think the sports advisory bisness gets a bad rap. There is some bad apples out there, but like Mark Simons said a lot of good honest handicappers who spend lots of time and hvae lots of talent.

I've been fair w you always. I ask every tout this and have yet to receive a reasonable answer. .....If you can make money betting your games, why do you have to sell them?
 
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I think the sports advisory bisness gets a bad rap. There is some bad apples out there, but like Mark Simons said a lot of good honest handicappers who spend lots of time and hvae lots of talent.

Rail, you can't help it if 98% of the guys in your profession are scum-bags...unfortunately everyone else thinks: "birds of a feather." :LMAO
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

JK is not a tout. He justs gives his opinion on games. Whether or not you play his selections
is fine with him. Vegas would be a better place to live if there were more John Kelly's here.
:pop:

Well said.....

Without JK here, this forum probably wouldn't exist anymore...JK doesn't earn a penny from the members, unlike the Shrink....
 

pbovi

EOG Dedicated
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I've been fair w you always. I ask every tout this and have yet to receive a reasonable answer. .....If you can make money betting your games, why do you have to sell them?
Ray, I know in my own case I have given that answer at least 2 dozen times here, but the fact is, some do not believe it, nor consider it reasonable, so they perceive it to be unreasonable. So, here goes again. I do it because I like it; it, being rated versus other cappers, it, because it gives me credibility in that I am monitored instead of just blow harding some exaggerated percentage, it because I like the spirit of competition, and it because I do not mind giving some otherwise losers a reasonable shot of winning over the long term. I make a few thousand dollars a year off of VI which in the grand scheme of things is so ridiculously small compared to what I wager and what my time is worth. For the record, I have been invited on other sites and I have turned them down because I do not want the responsibility of having to put picks up on a daily basis or sit there copy and pasting. There you have it and while I know there are very few cappers like me, there may be a few of us out there.
 
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I've been fair w you always. I ask every tout this and have yet to receive a reasonable answer. .....If you can make money betting your games, why do you have to sell them?

Exactly.

If you are a tout, sooner or later you run into the problem of front-running your picks: i.e. when do you release your selections? If you are really good, you want to get down before you release to the crowd because they will bend the line due to your capability. Now everyone wants you to not do this, because they want your best work (after all, they paid for it). Now if you bet your stuff, you have to be careful to not bend the market when you get down, otherwise your customers bet into a worsened line.

So, guys like Dr. Bob have it right by not betting their own selections...

Or, you just bet your own stuff and get away from the issue IF YOU ARE THAT GOOD, because you can make a living if you are good enough.

Given these issues, if you are a tout, chances are you are NOT THAT GOOD or you don't bet your own picks or both (I guess Dr. Bob now falls into this category).
 

Ray Luca

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Ray, I know in my own case I have given that answer at least 2 dozen times here, but the fact is, some do not believe it, nor consider it reasonable, so they perceive it to be unreasonable. So, here goes again. I do it because I like it; it, being rated versus other cappers, it, because it gives me credibility in that I am monitored instead of just blow harding some exaggerated percentage, it because I like the spirit of competition, and it because I do not mind giving some otherwise losers a reasonable shot of winning over the long term. I make a few thousand dollars a year off of VI which in the grand scheme of things is so ridiculously small compared to what I wager and what my time is worth. For the record, I have been invited on other sites and I have turned them down because I do not want the responsibility of having to put picks up on a daily basis or sit there copy and pasting. There you have it and while I know there are very few cappers like me, there may be a few of us out there.

Best answer I have heard to date and I respect it Bovi
 

KingRevolver

Born Rambler
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Well said.....

Without JK here, this forum probably wouldn't exist anymore...JK doesn't earn a penny from the members, unlike the Shrink....

We get it- he stiffed some of your pals down South. But the man is dead... and he was the one who hired JK in the first place.
 

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

.... you can't help it if 98% of the guys in your profession are scum-bags..



Agreed, although that's probably a percent or two low.

As for JK being a tout? I don't think so. Shrink posted plays, and he was a lot of things but tout isn't one of them. Kelly is charged with helping to build this place to become whatever it can be, don't fault the guy for using all the tricks in his arsenal.
 

Viejo Dinosaur

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

We get it- he stiffed some of your pals down South. But the man is dead... and he was the one who hired JK in the first place.

My point is that JK doesn't earn a dime from any loses from posters...he is not a tout....has absolutely nothing to do with who the Shrink stiffed or who hired who....JK promotes EOG along with Gaming in the Las Vegas community and on the airwaves....
 

KingRevolver

Born Rambler
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

My point is that JK doesn't earn a dime from any loses from posters...he is not a tout....has absolutely nothing to do with who the Shrink stiffed or who hired who....JK promotes EOG along with Gaming in the Las Vegas community and on the airwaves....

:cheers
 

Tuckman

Uh Poster
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I never once even thought about it till it was brought up to me in the form of a question, the thread wasnt started because i think JK is some scumbag tout, it was started to get others opinions of the question. However after pondering about it, i can see some sorta relation in it all. He not a direct tout, but in a way he uses his influence to bring people to the site from picks/blogs/radio show. People pay to support the site, which pays JK's salary. Its just the facts

...JK doesn't earn a penny from the members, unlike the Shrink....

This site or any forum in general wouldnt be open if it wasnt for the members supporting it, yes JK does earn off the members of this site in-directly
 

Patrick McIrish

OCCams raZOR
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Would it apply to the other mods who post plays as well Tuck? Indirectly they're all paid the same was as Kelly, are they also touts using your definition here?

FTR I don't think Tuck is starting shit, it's a legit question, I just don't agree with his opinion. A tout (to me) is someone who makes the majority of his income from selling plays. Kelly doesn't make his income from that, he gets paid for running the site, he just post plays as part of his role here. In short, he would still get paid if he stopped posting plays tomorrow. A true tout on the other hand only gets paid when he's hustling his opinions. Big difference in my view.
 

tripp

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I've been fair w you always. I ask every tout this and have yet to receive a reasonable answer. .....If you can make money betting your games, why do you have to sell them?

This is always the silliest question to ask someone to me. It's simple business. If you are good enough at something to have people pay you for your advice at said craft, why wouldn't you go into the tout business??

Even if you make tons of money every year betting your own plays this takes out the risk for you. If you continue winning then everyone is happy; You make more money with the steady income from your clients, and your clients are winning as they wouldn't be coming back if they weren't.

A smart businessman gets all the money he can out of an opportunity. And if you are a pro gambler with a good reputation, that means going tout and making easy money. I have absolutely no problem with anybody that does this, even railbird. If there are people that will pay him $300 a month for his plays I say hats off to him on making the easy dough and hope his clients are winning money also.
 

O'Royken

EOG Dedicated
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

I never once even thought about it till it was brought up to me in the form of a question, the thread wasnt started because i think JK is some scumbag tout, it was started to get others opinions of the question. However after pondering about it, i can see some sorta relation in it all. He not a direct tout, but in a way he uses his influence to bring people to the site from picks/blogs/radio show. People pay to support the site, which pays JK's salary. Its just the facts



This site or any forum in general wouldnt be open if it wasnt for the members supporting it, yes JK does earn off the members of this site in-directly

No different than his days at the Stardust or Leroys. Get them in the door with a soft sales approach to place bets.
 

Ray Luca

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

This is always the silliest question to ask someone to me.

Its not a silly question at all. BECAUSE most of them are losing players and will make their clients lose also. And that will cause the client to pay additional vig (fees) to the tout

I liked Bovi's answer.

Pro gamblers who are smart businessmen is an oxy-moron. Its not worth their time unless they only grind it out and thats my point. Big winning players don't need the lousy $300 month and the headaches that come w it. Plus they are advising the clients to play games at worse numbers most of the time. So clients will lose at some point

You said "I say hats off to him on making the easy dough and hope his clients are winning money also" what you are really saying is congrats on finding suckers to post up....


And I asked this several times....any touts out there who give cash back refunds..? to be honest I thought of doing it cause I know some people who were scammed. I wanted to do it w a cash back guarantee on a profitable month but w horses since im not a sports expert. I am not doing it for several reasons. I would have to limit the amount of customers since odds really effect the bottom line....Also, I for one could not take money from anyone who lost their own money based on my recommendations. But I wanted to do it in hopes of turning around that industry. If I was more of a sports expert, I would do it but Football is all I really attempt to stay on top of. Horses and variant making is a full time job

just my .02
 

Tuckman

Uh Poster
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Would it apply to the other mods who post plays as well Tuck? Indirectly they're all paid the same was as Kelly, are they also touts using your definition here?

I would have to say no, only because people do not come here (at least i dont think) for Kingers selections:lol

When JK is not posting plays, his blogs have less activity, when JK doesnt post plays the people who come to the site just to get them are not posting. JK uses his influence imo to smooze over people when it comes to posting up for contests which helps EOG survive and well pays the workers here. This place suffers with activity imo when hes not releasing selections. By no means do i think hes some full blown tout, i'm just saying in a way there is some characteristics after thinking about it once it was pointed out to me
 

brians

EOG Dedicated
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Comparing what a tout offers and what JK does for the EOG community is a major stretch. Regardless of any circumstantial correlations, you need to consider intent. I will never be convinced that JK's intent is to sell picks. Ridiculous.
 

Ray Luca

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Gamblers have egos.

We like to post our stuff and win. People come here and tail, some fade. Don't forget JK frequently discusses angles also. Some serious outside of the box thinking. That stuff helps people.

Its nice to pick up some green on a tuesday but there is a certain excitement coming back here and tooting ur own horn...:houra

The JK tout thing is ridiculous
 

Heim

EOG Master
Re: Would you consider JK a tout?

Could there have been a better hire than JK after Shrink's death? JK's Vegas
ties lend some credibility. Without him here this site would have died a slow
death similar to the one 'Mo' went to. Of course JK is touting. This place is owned
by a book. I think their mission is to get a few deposits......no?
 
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