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BGS 9.5 · 05-01-07, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean1

Post up and credit money should never mix.

When I post up money with Pinnacle, Cascade, SPortsbook, etc it should never be my problem whether or not they can collect from credit bettors... I never receive any profit from them so why should they be my risk?

The two should be separate and this excuse is absolutely pathetic.

Sean

You bring up an interesting point that I have always wondered the answer to.... Is it common practice for offshores to "escrow" post up money that is not yet bet, or is it commonly used to equal up unequal action, or just go in the general "kitty"? And by escrow, I mean it it terms of the actual meaning - treating it as money that is not yet yours, then releasing it into a general fund once it is lost by the player.

This may be a stupid question that I think I already know the answer to, but just thought I would ask.......

Sam Odom · 05-01-07, 08:37 PM

This is an old Jedi mind trick for which Ken is famous :-)

Seymour · 05-01-07, 08:38 PM

I cannot fathom that Cascade cannot find someone who could collect this for them. I also cannot fathom that Cascade does not have 200k to pay customers - so if they collect the 200k everything is going to be fine? 200k is a rather small amount of money if you ask me.

jimmycrackcorn · 05-01-07, 08:45 PM

Maybe their "limited funds" are a result of their limited payouts and everyone that has any sense has abandoned them for depositing funds?? JCC

MadCapper · 05-01-07, 08:49 PM

ClipJoint?

jwunderdog · 05-01-07, 09:24 PM

Not sure what Cascade's point is? If Clip and Poker stiffed cascade we would have three stiff jobs.As of right now CLip and Poker haven't stiffed anyone anymore then Cascade. NICE THREESOME IF TRUE?

THE SHRINK · 05-01-07, 09:59 PM

No need for some of you to get ugly...

No need to shoot the messenger here either...

Cascade gave a response but that doesn't absolve them from their responsibility to pay out on all of their other debts...

Lenny has told me he would get the job done..

As always, time will tell...

THE SHRINK

IDENTITY · 05-01-07, 10:24 PM

I don't understand several things:

1. Either Pokerking and Clipjoint owe Cascade approx. $100,000 apiece, or they don't. Both parties say they are owed a 6 figure sum. Obviously, only one of them is correct.

2. How can Betcascade need the $200,00 from Clip and Pokerking in order to pay their players?!?!?!? $200,000? That is nothing. If they cannot pay up on $200,000, they are BROKE.

Stay away guys.

Hal01 · 05-01-07, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

First off, PokerKing has not paid Cascade a mid 6 figure amount and ClipJoint also owes us a significant 6 figure settlement.

Mid 6 figure I'll assume = $500,000. How much is a "significant 6 figure settlement"?

Cobbler · 05-01-07, 10:46 PM

PokerKing said months ago he was being stiffed by Cascade, and wanted mediation that Cascade refused to do at the time. Now we should believe Cascade when they say Pokerking is the one doing the stiffing?

I don't. Clip may be an entirely different matter.

IDENTITY · 05-01-07, 10:46 PM

oh right, hal, its around 500k

IDENTITY · 05-01-07, 10:46 PM

cobbler - but why would cascade come out and say this when THEY'RE the stiffs. just seems too dumb to believe...

BGS 9.5 · 05-01-07, 10:48 PM

Who the hell wastes there time posting on sports forums when they actually owe that kind of dough?

MadCapper · 05-01-07, 10:51 PM

Clip Joint
LA Clippers fanatic

Join Date: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 1,076

Quote:

Originally Posted by trytrytry
I agree to that but I dont comment on other peoples affairs. you could just as well bash the guy who lent the cash but that is also foolish. Its none of us posters business.

Do you feel the same way when a sportsbook stiffs?

Should it just be swept under the rug or should their be pressure applied so the people owed money are paid?

In gambling, there is nothing worse than a stiff.

trytrytry · 05-01-07, 10:57 PM

mad Capper Im not sure what thread you took that from but I have no opinion on the cascade clipjoint issue or any issue that is between that business and its agents or sheet guys. Sure in a perfect world everybody pays everybody on time and its all black and white not middle ground. Here who knows what is going on here

If clip stated at one time like above there is nothing worse than a stiff then I have to think he would feel terrible if he is stiffing and is working on getting that taken care of.

However, Credit should not get in the way of post up customers. What somebody owes you should not get in the way of what you owe another party. I think cascade will work its way out of this and get up and running again. but they might have to lose the -105.

roach23 · 05-01-07, 10:58 PM

Clipjoint and pokerking might be scumbag stiffs...i dunno.

But its clearly evident that the main man from Cascade whose balls rest on Shrink's tongue is the biggest stiff of them all. This is all a bunch of crap to make posters go after 2 other degenterates rather than see that this book is slow/no paying many customers.

Shame on the Shrink for actually defending them and making posts to pass the buck on someone else. Why can't that Richcard@Cascade guy post this? or is he a coward???

And as always, props to dmmd for telling it like it is.

IDENTITY · 05-01-07, 11:06 PM

roach - you are funny, my friend. i like you.

THE SHRINK · 05-01-07, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roach23

Clipjoint and pokerking might be scumbag stiffs...i dunno.

But its clearly evident that the main man from Cascade whose balls rest on Shrink's tongue is the biggest stiff of them all. This is all a bunch of crap to make posters go after 2 other degenterates rather than see that this book is slow/no paying many customers.

Shame on the Shrink for actually defending them and making posts to pass the buck on someone else. Why can't that Richcard@Cascade guy post this? or is he a coward???

And as always, props to dmmd for telling it like it is.

Will you please read post 42 listed below again for those who like to twist my words?

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

No need for some of you to get ugly...

No need to shoot the messenger here either...

Cascade gave a response but that doesn't absolve them from their responsibility to pay out on all of their other debts...

Lenny has told me he would get the job done..

As always, time will tell...

THE SHRINK

All I did was post on behalf of a sports book who asked me to...

I have not defended or condoned their actions.

In fact, I have stated several times that the people who are owed money by Cascade need to get paid...

THE SHRINK

roach23 · 05-01-07, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

Will you please read post 42 again!

All I did was post on behalf of a sports book who asked me to...

I have not defended or condoned their actions.

In fact, I have stated several times that the people who are owed money by Cascade need to get paid...

THE SHRINK

C'mon man...why are you the messenger? Why can't the poster Richard@cascade post this info, or anyone else from cascade?? Why are you the mediator now? And how come none of your posts prior to this ask Cascade why they are slow paying a shitload of custormers (and EOG members) their money???

From my perspective...as well as others...it looks like you (maybe as the messenger) is trying to deflect the fact that Cascade owes a bunch of their customers money. It's nobody's problem but Cascade's if ClipJoint or anyone else owes them money. The fact that anyone owes them $1 or 6 figures doesn't make up for the fact that they're slow/no paying customers.

Defending a book that is slow/no paying your members is a joke. If anything you should be fighting for your members to get paid, rather than defending the excuses of a book.

THE SHRINK · 05-01-07, 11:42 PM

roach,

Excellent post and I can't argue with any of your salient points. But I do assure you that I have indeed been fighting to get posters and non posters paid. Furthermore, how would YOU handle a PIONEER in this industry who is very likeable but going through hard times?

Would you give him another month to get things right because he assures you/ me/us he will, or do you remove Cascade from EOG at once?

I have been struggling with this decision but I value yours and everyone's input...

P.S

I totally agree that these two other cases have nothing at all to do with the current situation at Cascade, but they did contribute to some of it according to Lenny...

Furthermore, I have asked that either Lenny or Richard post on behalf of Cascade because I don't appreciate being a springboard for future attacks from frustrated posters and gamblers..

Thanks,

THE SHRINK

zerocage · 05-01-07, 11:43 PM

[b]They need to pay. You post up with a book , and when you withdraw - you should get to withdraw. No someone is stiffing me BS.

jimmycrackcorn · 05-02-07, 12:00 AM

The bottom line is that this organization, and those responsible for the final decisions they make, made a conscious decision to allow for the jeopardizing of OUR funds. That is the only real issue here...and that can NEVER happen. If this practice isn't a short term failure..it is certain to bring long term failure. The emotional aspect, though respected, must be discarded when given the gravity of the circumstances. JCC

gondo · 05-02-07, 12:00 AM

everyone is giving them another month or two or three what choice do they have. to think though that people who are owed money should wait silently is stupid. i own my own business and you can't let people steal your money. duh! whatever these people say im sure it wont have any impact on whether they actually get paid. that being said they sure have a right to bitch about not being paid. i dont think being paid slow is anything great either. you give them your money and you should be able to withdraw it anytime promptly. same as at any band you give your money too.

gondo · 05-02-07, 12:01 AM

that should be bank you give your money too.

jimmycrackcorn · 05-02-07, 12:06 AM

The bottom line is that this organization, and those responsible for the final decisions they make, made a conscious decision to allow for the jeopardizing of OUR funds. That is the only real issue here...and that can NEVER happen. If this practice isn't a short term failure..it is certain to bring long term failure. The emotional aspect, though respected, must be discarded when given the gravity of the circumstances. JCC

sorry if this is a double post

zerocage · 05-02-07, 12:29 AM

Ask Bet On Sports how it works

Chance · 05-02-07, 01:25 AM

What scares me about this debacle is that if Cascade and Lenny are so reputable and pioneers in this industry and they can create such a mess what does it say about the rest of the off-shore industry as a whole? Holy Cow I hope these types of mistakes are not common place!!!

sharp gambler · 05-02-07, 01:51 AM

Pioneer? 10 years offshore? Where's the money? I dont care if a guy went bad for a million. This guy should be a millionaire 20 times over. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

pokerking · 05-02-07, 04:31 AM

It's amazing that 6 months after Lenny steals 6 figures from me and he renegs on mediation that he makes up this story. Now he's stiffing everybody and we're supposed to believe these lies?

NickPappagiorgio · 05-02-07, 07:35 AM

05-01-07, 08:37 PM	#37 (permalink)
Sam Odom DON'T DO IT Join Date: Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 3,893	Re: Cascade Responds... This is an old Jedi mind trick for which Ken is famous :-)

Nice to see Sam here, but I thought he "left" us with Glaken. A mind trick indeed.

5teamparlay · 05-02-07, 08:04 AM

I do not find it good business to call out specific persons in regards to these matters. What is next putting their real name out there. Many posters names and pictures etc. are widely available. Does Clip or PK list names of posters that owe them? and so on. I hope not. WAY WAY too much info put out here. I would understand if this gets burried.

ballwonder · 05-02-07, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

No need for some of you to get ugly...

No need to shoot the messenger here either...

Cascade gave a response but that doesn't absolve them from their responsibility to pay out on all of their other debts...

Lenny has told me he would get the job done..

As always, time will tell...

THE SHRINK

Amazing though how you have decided to take one of your sponsors and post something like this in the offshore forum, but if it were a member to member issue it would be placed directly in the dump.

MadCapper · 05-02-07, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerking

It's amazing that 6 months after Lenny steals 6 figures from me and he renegs on mediation that he makes up this story. Now he's stiffing everybody and we're supposed to believe these lies?

What lies? Do you owe him any money?

Lawrence · 05-02-07, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballwonder

Amazing though how you have decided to take one of your sponsors and post something like this in the offshore forum, but if it were a member to member issue it would be placed directly in the dump.

actually BMO was free to post his issue with MadCapper in the offshore forum, and it didn't get moved

pokerking · 05-02-07, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCapper

What lies? Do you owe him any money?

Lenny stole 6 figures from me. That's why he refuses to mediate. He owes me money.

05-01-07, 08:38 PM	#38
Seymour EOG Dedicated Join Date: Oct 07, 2005 Posts: 4,772	Re: Cascade Responds... I cannot fathom that Cascade cannot find someone who could collect this for them. I also cannot fathom that Cascade does not have 200k to pay customers - so if they collect the 200k everything is going to be fine? 200k is a rather small amount of money if you ask me.

05-01-07, 08:45 PM	#39
jimmycrackcorn Banned Join Date: Jan 23, 2007 Posts: 329	Re: Cascade Responds... Maybe their "limited funds" are a result of their limited payouts and everyone that has any sense has abandoned them for depositing funds?? JCC

05-01-07, 08:49 PM	#40
MadCapper Head <in> Moderation Join Date: Nov 03, 2005 Posts: 33,082	Re: Cascade Responds... ClipJoint?

05-01-07, 09:24 PM	#41
jwunderdog EOG Addicted Join Date: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 662	Re: Cascade Responds... Not sure what Cascade's point is? If Clip and Poker stiffed cascade we would have three stiff jobs.As of right now CLip and Poker haven't stiffed anyone anymore then Cascade. NICE THREESOME IF TRUE?

05-01-07, 09:59 PM	#42
THE SHRINK EOG FOUNDER Join Date: Jul 19, 2005 Location: Chesapeake, Virginia Posts: 35,378	Re: Cascade Responds... No need for some of you to get ugly... No need to shoot the messenger here either... Cascade gave a response but that doesn't absolve them from their responsibility to pay out on all of their other debts... Lenny has told me he would get the job done.. As always, time will tell... THE SHRINK

05-01-07, 08:37 PM	#37
Sam Odom DON'T DO IT Join Date: Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 4,524	Re: Cascade Responds... This is an old Jedi mind trick for which Ken is famous :-)

05-01-07, 10:24 PM	#43
IDENTITY NFL Expert Join Date: Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 16,316	Re: Cascade Responds... I don't understand several things: 1. Either Pokerking and Clipjoint owe Cascade approx. $100,000 apiece, or they don't. Both parties say they are owed a 6 figure sum. Obviously, only one of them is correct. 2. How can Betcascade need the $200,00 from Clip and Pokerking in order to pay their players?!?!?!? $200,000? That is nothing. If they cannot pay up on $200,000, they are BROKE. Stay away guys.

05-01-07, 10:46 PM	#45
Cobbler EOG Addicted Join Date: Oct 02, 2005 Posts: 613	Re: Cascade Responds... PokerKing said months ago he was being stiffed by Cascade, and wanted mediation that Cascade refused to do at the time. Now we should believe Cascade when they say Pokerking is the one doing the stiffing? I don't. Clip may be an entirely different matter.

05-01-07, 10:46 PM	#46
IDENTITY NFL Expert Join Date: Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 16,316	Re: Cascade Responds... oh right, hal, its around 500k

05-01-07, 10:46 PM	#47
IDENTITY NFL Expert Join Date: Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 16,316	Re: Cascade Responds... cobbler - but why would cascade come out and say this when THEY'RE the stiffs. just seems too dumb to believe...

05-01-07, 10:48 PM	#48
BGS 9.5 THE Ohio State University Join Date: Aug 20, 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 4,414	Re: Cascade Responds... Who the hell wastes there time posting on sports forums when they actually owe that kind of dough?

05-01-07, 10:57 PM	#50
trytrytry All I do is trytrytry Join Date: Aug 21, 2005 Location: minnesota Posts: 18,871	Re: Cascade Responds... mad Capper Im not sure what thread you took that from but I have no opinion on the cascade clipjoint issue or any issue that is between that business and its agents or sheet guys. Sure in a perfect world everybody pays everybody on time and its all black and white not middle ground. Here who knows what is going on here If clip stated at one time like above there is nothing worse than a stiff then I have to think he would feel terrible if he is stiffing and is working on getting that taken care of. However, Credit should not get in the way of post up customers. What somebody owes you should not get in the way of what you owe another party. I think cascade will work its way out of this and get up and running again. but they might have to lose the -105.

05-01-07, 10:58 PM	#51
roach23 www.lockcity.com Join Date: Sep 01, 2005 Location: South Jersey Posts: 7,476	Re: Cascade Responds... Clipjoint and pokerking might be scumbag stiffs...i dunno. But its clearly evident that the main man from Cascade whose balls rest on Shrink's tongue is the biggest stiff of them all. This is all a bunch of crap to make posters go after 2 other degenterates rather than see that this book is slow/no paying many customers. Shame on the Shrink for actually defending them and making posts to pass the buck on someone else. Why can't that Richcard@Cascade guy post this? or is he a coward??? And as always, props to dmmd for telling it like it is.

05-01-07, 11:06 PM	#52
IDENTITY NFL Expert Join Date: Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 16,316	Re: Cascade Responds... roach - you are funny, my friend. i like you.

05-01-07, 11:42 PM	#55
THE SHRINK EOG FOUNDER Join Date: Jul 19, 2005 Location: Chesapeake, Virginia Posts: 35,378	Re: Cascade Responds... roach, Excellent post and I can't argue with any of your salient points. But I do assure you that I have indeed been fighting to get posters and non posters paid. Furthermore, how would YOU handle a PIONEER in this industry who is very likeable but going through hard times? Would you give him another month to get things right because he assures you/ me/us he will, or do you remove Cascade from EOG at once? I have been struggling with this decision but I value yours and everyone's input... P.S I totally agree that these two other cases have nothing at all to do with the current situation at Cascade, but they did contribute to some of it according to Lenny... Furthermore, I have asked that either Lenny or Richard post on behalf of Cascade because I don't appreciate being a springboard for future attacks from frustrated posters and gamblers.. Thanks, THE SHRINK

05-01-07, 11:43 PM	#56
zerocage have a gander... Join Date: Aug 01, 2006 Location: Uranus Posts: 8,409	Re: Cascade Responds... [b]They need to pay. You post up with a book , and when you withdraw - you should get to withdraw. No someone is stiffing me BS.

05-02-07, 12:00 AM	#57
jimmycrackcorn Banned Join Date: Jan 23, 2007 Posts: 329	Re: Cascade Responds... The bottom line is that this organization, and those responsible for the final decisions they make, made a conscious decision to allow for the jeopardizing of OUR funds. That is the only real issue here...and that can NEVER happen. If this practice isn't a short term failure..it is certain to bring long term failure. The emotional aspect, though respected, must be discarded when given the gravity of the circumstances. JCC

05-02-07, 12:00 AM	#58
gondo EOG Member Join Date: Apr 10, 2007 Posts: 75	Re: Cascade Responds... everyone is giving them another month or two or three what choice do they have. to think though that people who are owed money should wait silently is stupid. i own my own business and you can't let people steal your money. duh! whatever these people say im sure it wont have any impact on whether they actually get paid. that being said they sure have a right to bitch about not being paid. i dont think being paid slow is anything great either. you give them your money and you should be able to withdraw it anytime promptly. same as at any band you give your money too.

05-02-07, 12:01 AM	#59
gondo EOG Member Join Date: Apr 10, 2007 Posts: 75	Re: Cascade Responds... that should be bank you give your money too.

05-02-07, 12:06 AM	#60
jimmycrackcorn Banned Join Date: Jan 23, 2007 Posts: 329	Re: Cascade Responds... The bottom line is that this organization, and those responsible for the final decisions they make, made a conscious decision to allow for the jeopardizing of OUR funds. That is the only real issue here...and that can NEVER happen. If this practice isn't a short term failure..it is certain to bring long term failure. The emotional aspect, though respected, must be discarded when given the gravity of the circumstances. JCC sorry if this is a double post

05-02-07, 12:29 AM	#61
zerocage have a gander... Join Date: Aug 01, 2006 Location: Uranus Posts: 8,409	Re: Cascade Responds... Ask Bet On Sports how it works

05-02-07, 01:25 AM	#62
Chance EOG Senior Member Join Date: Mar 06, 2006 Posts: 335	Re: Cascade Responds... What scares me about this debacle is that if Cascade and Lenny are so reputable and pioneers in this industry and they can create such a mess what does it say about the rest of the off-shore industry as a whole? Holy Cow I hope these types of mistakes are not common place!!!

05-02-07, 01:51 AM	#63
sharp gambler EOG Member Join Date: Feb 13, 2007 Posts: 40	Re: Cascade Responds... Pioneer? 10 years offshore? Where's the money? I dont care if a guy went bad for a million. This guy should be a millionaire 20 times over. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

05-02-07, 04:31 AM	#64
pokerking EOG Member Join Date: Nov 21, 2006 Posts: 51	Re: Cascade Responds... It's amazing that 6 months after Lenny steals 6 figures from me and he renegs on mediation that he makes up this story. Now he's stiffing everybody and we're supposed to believe these lies?

05-02-07, 08:04 AM	#66
5teamparlay EOG Member Join Date: Aug 20, 2005 Location: tampa florida Posts: 4,888	Re: Cascade Responds... I do not find it good business to call out specific persons in regards to these matters. What is next putting their real name out there. Many posters names and pictures etc. are widely available. Does Clip or PK list names of posters that owe them? and so on. I hope not. WAY WAY too much info put out here. I would understand if this gets burried.

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