FINALLY, SOME GOOD RELEVANT ONLINE GAMBLING NEWS!!!

[THE SHRINK]

WTO Internet Gambling Case: US does not appeal



written May 22, 2007

Geneva, Switzerland- In a stunning, but rather arrogant manner today, the US did not appeal an earlier decision that was favorable to Antigua involving Internet gambling. Therefore, Antigua is now moving on to the Remedy Phase of its dispute with the US.

By not appealing the WTO ruling, the March 30 Compliance Report is officially adopted by all members.

"The United States predictably is trying to weasel out and withdraw its commitments," an anonymous source in Geneva told EOG exclusively late this afternoon.

"Furthermore, the US position was met with stern words from Brazil and other members from the European Union (EU)."

Since the deadline for the US to appeal this Internet Gambling ruling by the WTO was today, other countries can and will jump aboard and join Antigua's claim against the US. In fact, other nations have until the latter part of June to decide whether or not they, too might want to offer online gambling to US citizens in the future.

It also appears this particular WTO dispute is being followed closely by defendants who have recently been indicted in the US on Internet gambling related charges (namely Gary Kaplan, BetonSports, and David Carruthers).

Some experts we have spoken with believe the results may have profound ramifications as to their guilt or innocence.

written by Kenneth B. Weitzner -EOG

[jimmycrackcorn]

Well ..........Yippee Yi Yeah Cowpattie....

and this means what..exactly???

[KMC]

that is good news for a change

[THE SHRINK]

It means the US can no longer appeal the favorable decision made by the WTO favoring Antigua and the countries now must enter a Remedy Phase.

Quite often, they sit down at a table and negotiate a deal...

For example, the US could allow X number of licenses out of Antigua serving US citizens, they could offer monetary compensation, etc...

When we learn more, I will be the first to share it...

We also have an attorney from the WTO dispute posting here occasionally as well as JC....

Perhaps one or both of them can enlighten us?

Thanks,
Ken

[jimmycrackcorn]

Thanks for the reply Ken. JCC

[frankjohnson]

Does this mean bodog and others will stop taking a month to process a withdrawal?

[The General]

There is always hope as long as the communication is available. I hope that these groups are able to sit, negotiate professionally and respect the topic on the table. I am hoping this will lead to some positive progression and a fair shake. To the DOJ: Let's stop the silly war on online gambling. It is getting old already. Although I believe the DOJ has broken this down in a strategy based long-term plan and I am awaiting the next move by the US DOJ.

There is hope and I still have faith that we (bettors) can weather the storm as long as there are the sports books ready to supply the demand we have.

[Almost Allright]

Good news!!! Funny how a positive thread on the industry only gets 6 replies. If this thread was titled "more slow pays" it would be on page two by now. Negative bunch are we not?

[dirty]

Very good post AA.... lots of guys here just want to dogpile, not here any good news at all

[Inside Guy]

Originally Posted by frankjohnson

Does this mean bodog and others will stop taking a month to process a withdrawal?

NOPE.

Once more processors are willing to step to the plate to handle these transactions, it is going to be a slow go at it from all the bigger shops to send out payments.

[dirty]

Another good post IG... people just don't want to understand that there are very few processors that books can trust and use nowadays

[MrSensation]

Thanks for the info.

[I,GAMBLER]

Here is the good news I am waiting for: Neteller pays.

[Dante]

sure is something positive that is for sure ....I hope it has teeth

[WildBill]

Likely result is a number of smaller countries will make claims they are harmed by the US pulling out, countries which don't have any online gambling to speak of but are just seizing the opportunity. The US will then fight those claims and we'll see another round of acrimony. However the US will obviously not put licenses for foreign countries on the table, that was the whole point of the withdrawal from the WTO for gambling service. They will pay out some punitive fines, but since most smaller nations of the world receive some direct or indirect aid the US will just bury the issue by saying we are increasing our aid to Antigua and the others if they do pay the fine. The ball will then be in the court of Antigua and others to find more innovative ways to draw attention to the issue since a straight payout isn't going to do much for the long-term business these countries are having to sacrifice.

[Hitman26]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

It means the US can no longer appeal the favorable decision made by the WTO favoring Antigua and the countries now must enter a Remedy Phase.

Quite often, they sit down at a table and negotiate a deal...

For example, the US could allow X number of licenses out of Antigua serving US citizens, they could offer monetary compensation, etc...

When we learn more, I will be the first to share it...

We also have an attorney from the WTO dispute posting here occasionally as well as JC....

Perhaps one or both of them can enlighten us?




Thanks,
Ken

I have a question, could the US gov't concievably pay off these countries to not offer us online gambling? Could they say "ok Antigua, we will give you 2 billion dollars to not offer gambling the our citizens"?



I know it sounds far fetched but I wouldn't put anything past this administration to "protect" it citizens.

[THE SHRINK]

YES!!!

[THE SHRINK]

This just released by AP....

Plot thickens in U.S.-Antigua Internet gambling dispute - International Herald Tribune

[THE SHRINK]

Plot thickens in U.S.-Antigua Internet gambling dispute

GENEVA: The tiny Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda slammed the United States on Tuesday over its illegal restrictions on Internet gambling sites based overseas and asked other countries to join in seeking compensation from Washington for its failure to comply with global trade rules.

Antigua, the smallest country to successfully litigate a case in the World Trade Organization's 12-year-history, also threatened to target American trademarks, copyrights and telecommunications companies after the WTO Tuesday formally adopted a landmark decision in March that the United States' continued restrictions on online gambling were illegal.

"Not only do we think that members should press claims for compensatory adjustments as a matter of economic self-interest, but we also believe it is important that the process is made as difficult as possible for the United States," Ambassador John Ashe of Antigua told the WTO's dispute settlement body.

The gambling dispute is threatening to become one of the most complicated the WTO has ever handled and could soon spark a series of compensation negotiations between the United States and other trading powers such as the European Union.

After losing the case, the U.S. announced that it would take an unprecedented legal step to change the international commitments it made as part of the 1994 GATS treaty regulating the trade in services among the 150 members of the WTO. As a result, the U.S. declined to challenge Tuesday's adoption of the Internet gambling ruling, because it says that its legal maneuver effectively ends the case.
Juan Millan, a U.S. trade lawyer, told the Geneva-based trade body that the procedure — which no government had previously used to avoid a WTO ruling — was invoked "in order to bring the United States into compliance and to resolve this dispute permanently."

"This modification will ensure ... the original U.S. intent of excluding gambling from the scope of U.S. commitments," he said.

The U.S. argues that it is also exempt from negotiating compensation to governments — as required in the GATS clause allowing countries to rewrite their services commitments — because Internet gambling was never explicitly mentioned in the negotiations of the early 1990s.

The March ruling upheld the U.S. right to prevent offshore betting as a means of protecting public order and public morals. But it said it was illegal to target online gambling, without equally applying the rules to American operators offering remote betting on horse and dog racing.

Brazil and India on Tuesday both said the United States was obliged by law to compensate Antigua if it wants to now redefine its services obligations. The European Union questioned how the new clarification of the U.S. ban on online betting would eliminate the discrimination that allows for U.S. companies providing offshore betting on horses and other services to remain in business.

"The American defense was predicated on their theory that Internet gambling was worse than gambling in bricks and mortar shops," said Mark Mendel, chief legal counsel for Antigua. "If they believed that, they would eliminate all remote gambling in America. They have not done that. It's just blatant trade protectionism."

Mendel told The Associated Press that Antigua would seek retaliatory sanctions against the U.S. as America's negotiations to rewrite its services obligations "could take years," requiring the consent of the WTO's other members.

"In the meantime, there's nothing to prevent us from seeking our remedies and we absolutely will," he said.

The former British colony in the Caribbean had been promoting electronic commerce as a way to end the country's reliance on tourism, which was hurt by a series of hurricanes in the late 1990s. There are 32 licensed online casinos in Antigua, employing 1,000 people and generating a yearly revenue of around US$130 million (€97 million). Seven years ago, its casinos had an annual income closer to US$1 billion.

Mendel said the nation of 80,000 people was looking at different ways to recoup its losses — a challenge for such a small country facing the world's biggest economic power. Antigua's legal efforts were largely bankrolled by British-owned Internet gambling operators with servers licensed in the country.

"Maybe we'll target telecoms. Intellectual property rights — that's a way we can possibly fight back," Mendel speculated.

The EU has stressed at every stage in the four-year dispute that it would act in support of its interests — a reference to the British-based companies that lost millions because of the U.S. restrictions. Officials in Brussels said, however, they had yet to notify Washington whether they would submit a compensation claim.

The U.S. Congress caught the industry by surprise last year when it added a provision to a bill aimed at improving port security that would make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to settle payments to online gambling sites. President George W. Bush signed it into law on Oct. 14.

The decision closed off the most lucrative region in a market worth US$15.5 billion (€11.6 billion) last year. Several British-based Internet gaming companies and a handful in Europe and Australia subsequently sold off or shut down their U.S. operations, losing around 80 percent of their combined business in the process.

The arrest last year of two British Internet gambling executives while traveling through the United States also highlighted the U.S. government's escalation in its battle against the industry.


Source: AP

[zerocage]

Any even good news , is a start. The U.S. cannot fight gambling forever. The scare tactics and making players lose their funds (BoS) can't go on forever. The people want gambling. I don't know what the answer is to all of it. But movies for a buck solves it quickly, if hollywood can't make a buck- someone will cry loud enough and the high paid pieces of shit will have to do something.

[SpecialK]

"Maybe we'll target telecoms. Intellectual property rights — that's a way we can possibly fight back," Mendel speculated.

I wonder if anyone in congress or the senate is saying..."why in the hell did we let Frist push this through?"

[sabian06]

about time we hear something positive....thanks

[Dawg Pound]

I hope they have some good software available to the public. I am tired of paying these crazy prices for Microsoft software "licenses". And I can now expand my software base with the money I save because I can't gamble online anymore. Thank you Mr. Frist!

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by Dawg Pound

I hope they have some good software available to the public. I am tired of paying these crazy prices for Microsoft software "licenses". And I can now expand my software base with the money I save because I can't gamble online anymore. Thank you Mr. Frist!

You sir sound guilty of insider trading....

I really like this version released within the past hour...


US concedes defeat in WTO Internet Gambling case with Antigua



written May 22, 2007

-ANTIGUA GAINS SUPPORT FROM EU, BRAZIL, AND INDIA DELEGATIONS

-CLAIMS FILED AGAINST US FOR WITHDRAWAL OF COMMITMENT COULD RUN TO MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

At a meeting of the World Trade Organisation held today, the United States conceded defeat in its long-running battle with the small Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda and announced it would not be appealing the most recent adverse decision rendered by a WTO dispute panel. As expected, however, the United States announced that it had initiated action to withdraw its treaty obligations with respect to gambling and betting services in an attempt to preclude Antigua and other nations from capitalising on the WTO decisions in favour of Antigua.

In a statement delivered to the WTO membership today, Antigua’s Ambassador to the WTO, Dr John W. Ashe, stated that this tactic was not going to work and that Antigua would press on with its remedies at the WTO: “There is something clearly wrong with the concept that after a long, difficult struggle covering years of dispute resolution at the WTO an offending member could ultimately avoid the consequences of its loss by withdrawing the commitment that gave rise to the claim in the first place. As far as we are concerned, our dispute has been resolved and the United States remains obligated to comply,” said Dr Ashe.

At the meeting, the delegation of Brazil declared its unequivocal support of the Antiguan position, making clear that the actions of the United States in the case threaten the integrity of the entire dispute resolution system, particularly with respect to small and developing countries. India expressed similar concerns while the European Union noted its disappointment that the United States had failed to engage Antigua and other concerned countries over a reasoned approach to the provision of these services.

The US action to withdraw its commitment now leaves it open to claims for damages from all WTO members who may consider themselves adversely affected by the withdrawal. Under WTO procedures, any member can file a claim, all of which must either be resolved by agreement or arbitrated before the United States can actually withdraw the commitment. These claims could potentially run into many billions of dollars of trade concessions that US trading partners could impose against the United States in virtually any sector, a result that could see US producers of goods and services having nothing at all to do with gaming facing large trade barriers from American trading partners such as the European Union.

“While we will not know until the filing deadline in mid-June,” said Mark Mendel, Antigua’s legal advisor in the case. “We have heard rumblings that substantial trading partners such as the EU are seriously considering filing claims for compensatory adjustments. The potential adverse impact upon completely unrelated American business interests could be massive.”

In his presentation to the WTO today, Dr Ashe expressed his particular disappointment that the United States had not seen fit to negotiate with the Antiguan government over any compromise, despite Antigua’s belief that a compromise was possible. “In a system that is replete with references to good faith, fair dealing and cooperative resolution of disagreements, it is the failure of the United States to engage with Antigua that is most troubling,” said Dr Ashe. “We are unable to understand why there was no effort to find some middle ground. We ourselves were and remain ready to find a fair and reasonable solution. But we need the other side to show up to do so.”

[Smoke]

But Shrink, doesn't this just mean that the US is now going to ignore the WTO ???

[sean1]

The EU, India, China, and Brazil made negative statements about the US actions...

I doubt the US expected Europe to take this stance.

Should be interesting how much the EU is willing to push this...

Sean

[sean1]

What a bunch of stubborn pricks our government is...

This is such a non issue and was such a good chance to show the world we are team players.

Any half reasonable person with an IQ over 10 would have said, "Ok we lost. We will open our borders to online gaming. Let's set up a way to keep kids and terrorists out of it...." "Further, we want to work with the rest of the world to get rid of piracy, nuclear proliferation, etc."

But instead, we say fuck off...

-Sean

[Whoson1st]

Originally Posted by sean1

The EU, India, China, and Brazil made negative statements about the US actions...

I doubt the US expected Europe to take this stance.

Should be interesting how much the EU is willing to push this...

Sean

it would be interesting if --I did not allready have a datafile on the US and their "deal making".... The USA is the land of the pay-off. WE--can ONLY HOPE the EU does NOT go for it!!!

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by Smoke

But Shrink, doesn't this just mean that the US is now going to ignore the WTO ???

That's what they have been doing Smoke.

Whether they can continue to do so without ramification remains to be seen but my hunch tells me not to understimate Antigua....

THE SHRINK

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by sean1

But instead, we say fuck off...

-Sean

That's the way I see it too Sean...

The rest of the world already sees us as self-righteous bastards, wonder why?

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

That's what they have been doing Smoke.

Whether they can continue to do so without ramification remains to be seen but my hunch tells me not to understimate Antigua....

THE SHRINK

Thanks for reply Shrink, I hope our gov. realizes they can't continue on this path if we want to be respected and trusted by smaller nations

Stand strong Antigua!!

[Whoson1st]

Shrink--I think you're a man of beyond average intellingence. Do you think it possible for your avitar to reflect this?

[Joe]

????

It is....

[Whoson1st]

Thanks for this Thread.

At the risk of sounding out of line, nothing here is really news. Still understand why it is here. Now without doubt either Ken or JC is closely tuned to what is Really happening in this regard for the future of on-line wagering. No ""sugar-coating" is needed by anyone. I think the average Joe (of which I consider myself very much one ); wants to know what the BOTTOM LINE is for this. No fancy "schmancy" words necessary! Locals-Ofshore; not even a comparison; but that's not even the issue here.

Keep up to date with the little stuff--even if nothing much to report. I think yow may find (while swallowing your EGO for whatever time--may give you a big edge for the future in forums---assumming that's your goal!)

[Chairman]

Originally Posted by sean1

The EU, India, China, and Brazil made negative statements about the US actions...

I doubt the US expected Europe to take this stance.

Should be interesting how much the EU is willing to push this...

Sean

WTF?

Where did you see that China is mention in the group?

The fact is that China will not use this to against the U.S., and they don't care.