Some Post Up Bookmakers Are Destined To Fail...

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

I love the feedback...

Perhaps I will ask one of our more critical members to assist with the audit...

Having one extra layer of credibility won't hurt...

Two Costa Rican bookmakers have already volunteered for total transparency of their books...

I just wonder WHO would want to go to COSTA RICA on my dime and also on rather short notice?

I would really hate to inconvenience someone like janus or Joey...

THE SHRINK

I would gladly go with you if I could find my damn passport. I could have one expedited to me in the next 10 days or so if you are serious.

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

I would gladly go with you if I could find my damn passport. I could have one expedited to me in the next 10 days or so if you are serious.

It might have to be sooner but I will let you know more tomorrow and I thank you for volunteering.

THE SHRINK

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

It might have to be sooner but I will let you know more tomorrow and I thank you for volunteering.

THE SHRINK

Ok, well let me know. I have an open schedule for this whole month, so it would be my pleasure to help out my fellow gamblers. (Just don't get me shot or anything else down there for all the shit I have talked about you)

[munson15]

Originally Posted by ZZ CREAM

You are very nice Munson! I am glad to know you!

P.S. I believe Ken to be very savvy!

Thank you very much, ZZ.

[janus]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

I love the feedback...

Perhaps I will ask one of our more critical members to assist with the audit...

Having one extra layer of credibility won't hurt...

Two Costa Rican bookmakers have already volunteered for total transparency of their books...

I just wonder WHO would want to go to COSTA RICA on my dime and also on rather short notice?

I would really hate to inconvenience someone like janus or Joey...

THE SHRINK

as much as i'd like to see costa rica on your dime, the reviews wouldn't be independent, and given that, i'm not interested.

[joeybagadonuts]

Believe me janus, I can't be bought off for a free trip. I would even pay for my own trip if I were compensated for my work instead.

[janus]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

Believe me janus, I can't be bought off for a free trip. I would even pay for my own trip if I were compensated for my work instead.

i wasnt implying that, bro.

[RealSlimShady]

Have a question that may be related to this topic. I was wondering if interest rates being at virtually zero has affected the post up books negatively too. In the past, I assume deposited funds would earn a few % annually in the book's account at the bank, but with rates at almost zero(or zero), the books have lost a source of profits?

[janus]

Originally Posted by RealSlimShady

Have a question that may be related to this topic. I was wondering if interest rates being at virtually zero has affected the post up books negatively too. In the past, I assume deposited funds would earn a few % annually in the book's account at the bank, but with rates at almost zero(or zero), the books have lost a source of profits?

great question, rss.

[Mammon]

I probably could do it for you shrinker. Your dime, my time and I don't have to listen to you or do anything else right?

[Mammon]

Originally Posted by RealSlimShady

Have a question that may be related to this topic. I was wondering if interest rates being at virtually zero has affected the post up books negatively too. In the past, I assume deposited funds would earn a few % annually in the book's account at the bank, but with rates at almost zero(or zero), the books have lost a source of profits?

Even shrink could answear that. They ain't at zero jack so money is maid...

[janus]

Originally Posted by Mamon

Even shrink could answear that. They ain't at zero jack so money is maid...

not sure that you noticed, but the guy you replied to had a brain.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

The reults of my audit are in.


1. Matchbook
2. WSEX
3. Everyone else

[janus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Hoffa

The reults of my audit are in.


1. Matchbook
2. WSEX
3. Everyone else

is this one of those "trust me wink wink one-gambler-to-another" audits or did you actually visit their corporate headquarters and get real data worth talking about?

[Mammon]

Originally Posted by janus

not sure that you noticed, but the guy you replied to had a brain.

I use a 1% checking and 2 % MM for my foundation bigshot. Fine for me cfooooh face. I have not lost much here since any big money gets invested just like at books.

[janus]

Originally Posted by Mamon

I use a 1% checking and 2 % MM for my foundation bigshot. Fine for me cfooooh face. I have not lost much here since any big money gets invested just like at books.

well, there it is folks. what more could you want from a logical response?

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by RealSlimShady

Have a question that may be related to this topic. I was wondering if interest rates being at virtually zero has affected the post up books negatively too. In the past, I assume deposited funds would earn a few % annually in the book's account at the bank, but with rates at almost zero(or zero), the books have lost a source of profits?

Great question.

My take-

Most banks will still give you a few % interest at least the domestic banks will. Wellsfargo does a sliding scale of interest if you keep at least 50k in a sort of Money Market account that also acts as your checking account. I think they offered me .75% for keeping at least 50k. At 100k I think you get 1.1% if I remember correctly and I got this account maybe 7 or 8 months ago, so don't remember exactly. They also waive all your banking fees and repay any ATM charges, etc.

ING internet only bank gives you a decent rate as well. It's not much, but still better than nothing. The books probably move so much money around and between the float at the bank and cutting checks, etc. It would take someone working full time around the clock just to make sure you were maximizing your interest earning. I would think for it to make economic sense, even somewhere with cheap labor like CR, you would have to have millions of dollars liquid, that you would only need to dip into in extreme cases. Given some of the payment issues these books have with small dollar payments, I doubt many are in a position to keep those kinds of funds just sitting around.

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by janus

well, there it is folks. what more could you want from a logical response?

logic

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

Great question.

My take-

Most banks will still give you a few % interest at least the domestic banks will. Wellsfargo does a sliding scale of interest if you keep at least 50k in a sort of Money Market account that also acts as your checking account it was .75%. At 100k I think you get 1.1% if I remember correctly and I got this account maybe 7 or 8 months ago, so don't remember exactly. ING internet only bank gives you a decent rate as well. It's not much, but still better than nothing. The books probably move so much money around and between the float at the bank and cutting checks, etc. It would take someone working full time around the clock just to make sure you were maximizing your interest earning. I would think for it to make economic sense, even somewhere with cheap labor like CR, you would have to have millions of dollars liquid, that you would only need to dip into in extreme cases. Given some of the payment issues these books have with small dollar payments, I doubt many are in a position to keep those kinds of funds just sitting around.

spot on

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Originally Posted by janus

is this one of those "trust me wink wink one-gambler-to-another" audits or did you actually visit their corporate headquarters and get real data worth talking about?

Some of both Janus.

The safety of my offshore funds is paramount. The day WSEX takes a bath will be the day the whole industry dies.

If your cash isn't safe there, it isn't safe anywhere.

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Hoffa

The reults of my audit are in.


1. Matchbook
2. WSEX
3. Everyone else

I personally am down to only matchbook offshore as I don't trust the standard booking model, matchbook and WSEX have really revolutionized betting with exchange model. The only way they go out of business is if they up and steal all the funds they have. Other than that, they take 0 risk and take 1% of the bets for basically hosting the site, taking deposits, and making pay outs. No two ways to slice it, an exchange business model is hard to beat.

[RealSlimShady]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

Great question.

My take-

Most banks will still give you a few % interest at least the domestic banks will. Wellsfargo does a sliding scale of interest if you keep at least 50k in a sort of Money Market account that also acts as your checking account. I think they offered me .75% for keeping at least 50k. At 100k I think you get 1.1% if I remember correctly and I got this account maybe 7 or 8 months ago, so don't remember exactly. They also waive all your banking fees and repay any ATM charges, etc.

ING internet only bank gives you a decent rate as well. It's not much, but still better than nothing. The books probably move so much money around and between the float at the bank and cutting checks, etc. It would take someone working full time around the clock just to make sure you were maximizing your interest earning. I would think for it to make economic sense, even somewhere with cheap labor like CR, you would have to have millions of dollars liquid, that you would only need to dip into in extreme cases. Given some of the payment issues these books have with small dollar payments, I doubt many are in a position to keep those kinds of funds just sitting around.

True; many accounts still pay a minimal amount of interest. But the interest rate is still much lower than in the past.

[trytrytry]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

I personally am down to only matchbook offshore as I don't trust the standard booking model, matchbook and WSEX have really revolutionized betting with exchange model. The only way they go out of business is if they up and steal all the funds they have. Other than that, they take 0 risk and take 1% of the bets for basically hosting the site, taking deposits, and making pay outs. No two ways to slice it, an exchange business model is hard to beat.

matchbook makes many of those markets and have bots grab some overlay type lines..they are not totally risk free.. but they must be close...

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by RealSlimShady

True; many accounts still pay a minimal amount of interest. But the interest rate is still much lower than in the past.

Yes, agreed- but even in the past, unless you had a large amount of money, and you didn't need it for operating expenses (rent, payroll, pay outs, etc) it just doesn't make economic sense to really maximize the return. In most books case, they don't even have ANY money to just put in a rainy day fund, or if they do it is relatively little, say $500k. You put that in a CD that allows early withdraw even a few years ago, you are talking about 4-5.5%. That means you are talking about maybe 25k a year. Now they are maybe getting half that, when you look at it like that, it's really not a whole lot of money. What maybe the salary of an extra clerk or so, but not really a make or break kind of thing, imo.

Everything I have said is conjecture, I honestly have no clue how much money some of these books keep in reserve, just giving examples of how the interest rate changes probably don't have a major affect.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

I personally am down to only matchbook offshore as I don't trust the standard booking model, matchbook and WSEX have really revolutionized betting with exchange model. The only way they go out of business is if they up and steal all the funds they have. Other than that, they take 0 risk and take 1% of the bets for basically hosting the site, taking deposits, and making pay outs. No two ways to slice it, an exchange business model is hard to beat.

agree, but Matchbook also turned WSEX into a D type book. The only thing I dislike about MB is ties to WSEX, ironically I initially liked the MB concept because of ties to WSEX.

WSEX is now bottom of the barrel, like Oddsmaker, SBG global,BETUS,Sportsbook.com,etc.

[janus]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

logic

y.

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by trytrytry

matchbook makes many of those markets and have bots grab some overlay type lines..they are not totally risk free.. but they must be close...

Interesting. Why is it that often there are no offers on some of the baseball games even the day of the game for stuff like ATL Rls and the such? Do they only use the bots if they can offer the best available line? I don't know much about how they work, just that I can usually find the best line there and they pay me very quickly with zero hassle.

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by Doug

agree, but Matchbook also turned WSEX into a D type book. The only thing I dislike about MB is ties to WSEX, ironically I initially liked the MB concept because of ties to WSEX.

WSEX is now bottom of the barrel, like Oddsmaker, SBG global,BETUS,Sportsbook.com,etc.

Well, given that they refund any fees for putting $ into them, and they only charge $39 to get you a check. I deposit once a week with them, if I win at the end of the week, I take out all the money I won and start over fresh. Given the ease of getting money in and taking it out there I only leave myself with a small amount of exposure, something I have had trouble with since the NT went away.

Thanks for the info, though, Doug and Tryx3

[RealSlimShady]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

Yes, agreed- but even in the past, unless you had a large amount of money, and you didn't need it for operating expenses (rent, payroll, pay outs, etc) it just doesn't make economic sense to really maximize the return. In most books case, they don't even have ANY money to just put in a rainy day fund, or if they do it is relatively little, say $500k. You put that in a CD that allows early withdraw even a few years ago, you are talking about 4-5.5%. That means you are talking about maybe 25k a year. Now they are maybe getting half that, when you look at it like that, it's really not a whole lot of money. What maybe the salary of an extra clerk or so, but not really a make or break kind of thing, imo.

Everything I have said is conjecture, I honestly have no clue how much money some of these books keep in reserve, just giving examples of how the interest rate changes probably don't have a major affect.

You are correct. Without knowing how much post up funds they had laying around, it is hard to estimate the effect of the loss of interest earned on those deposits. I assume that for some poker sites, it had to be pretty huge. Not sure how much it is for post up books.

[janus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Hoffa

Some of both Janus.

how so?

which books did you visit & report on? or would you say you're just guessing & hoping on them all?

[Doug]

Furthermore, although no one likes to talk about it, the majority of post up bookies have what is referred to as a post up debt. This means that similar to banks, many sports books do not have all of the money sent to them readily available if every customer were to ask for a withdrawal at the same time.

I have been astonished to learn that the post up debt with some sports books is well over 50% of what they have taken in.

............................................................ ............................................................ .............

This doesn't shock me, but concerns me.

The posted up money should be secure and seperate, as some sites used to claim.

Operate of off your profits, if there are none, then your operation is a scam, with "post-up debt", as Ken calls it, and it will only grow larger.

A book needs to basically win enough to cover overhead expenses,and then some,
to be profitable. Growing debt = Failure

How can a book be viable, and not be able to pay off every depositor on demand ?

I bet Pinny could pay all !

[janus]

this situation is very clear... either you personally did your homework on the book you've entrusted your money to, or you didn't. you wouldn't put your savings in a bank you know nothing about, but you'll commit large amounts you can't afford to lose overseas to shady scumbags in the hopes that in a pinch, the shrink will negotiate a treaty within a week or so. does that pretty much sum up the offshore scenario?

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by janus

this situation is very clear... either you personally did your homework on the book you've entrusted your money to, or you didn't. you wouldn't put your savings in a bank you know nothing about, but you'll commit large amounts you can't afford to lose overseas to shady scumbags in the hopes that in a pinch, the shrink will negotiate a treaty within a week or so. does that pretty much sum up the offshore scenario?

Yes, that sums it up perfectly. Until I see proof, I have the same assumptions you do, Janus. Thus the reason I play with a few locals. Make one deposit into MB when needed for an amount of $ I am comfortable losing if they go belly up. If I run up the balance over the course of a week, month, etc, I ask for a withdraw, mitigating my risk.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Originally Posted by Doug

WSEX is now bottom of the barrel

Put down the bong Doug.

Originally Posted by janus

how so?

which books did you visit & report on? or would you say you're just guessing & hoping on them all?

I do my own independet research jan. My conclusions help me to feel safe with the whereabouts of my funds.

[jimmymac24]

i am looking into opening a matchbook account. with this model it looks like you can only bet straight bets, no parlays?