Some Post Up Bookmakers Are Destined To Fail...

[Jimmy Hoffa]

No parlays or teasers jimmy.

[janus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Hoffa

I do my own independet research jan. My conclusions help me to feel safe with the whereabouts of my funds.

fair enough, jim. glad to hear it.

[jimmymac24]

thx hoffa. that might be a good thing for me.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by jimmymac24

i am looking into opening a matchbook account. with this model it looks like you can only bet straight bets, no parlays?

Yep, straight only, and don't expect to get matched on NFL ( or anything, really)on opening lines. MB is best used on the day of the game.

[Doug]

[quote=Jimmy Hoffa;2235087]Put down the bong Doug.



I don't even own one, Jeem H.

WSEX wouldn't make my top 200 books these days. They lost me forever, when they started charging for transfers to MB, and while they couldn't send out checks in a timely manner, still can't.... from what I read.

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

I love the feedback...

Perhaps I will ask one of our more critical members to assist with the audit...

Having one extra layer of credibility won't hurt...

Two Costa Rican bookmakers have already volunteered for total transparency of their books...

I just wonder WHO would want to go to COSTA RICA on my dime and also on rather short notice?

I would really hate to inconvenience someone like janus or Joey...

THE SHRINK

Shrink, I offered my services to go to C.R. with you. Who else is more critical? I got burned for 9 dimes, I saw it coming, but I could only use psychological games against Lazerwager in hopes of getting paid.

WSI was the beginning for me, the New York Boys rolled with them, I had a sheet with them. I know the operation, I know the credit.

Also I consider myself a Mans man. I golf, I know how to smooze, and I would never embaress you. I believe alot of people would really enjoy my neutral write up. I am sending you a PM...I want in....

[janus]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

I would never embaress you.

"unless i had to write"...

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by janus

"unless i had to write"...

I just asked my wife for the spelling...Typo? I apologize. Its 2 a.m. in the morning, a simple mistake.

Thanks for the spell check.

[janus]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

I just asked my wife for the spelling...Typo? I apologize. Its 2 a.m. in the morning, a simple mistake.

Thanks for the spell check.

perhaps the shrink could fly your wife down to CR in case your skills are needed after 10pm.

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by janus

perhaps the shrink could fly your wife down to CR in case your skills are needed after 10pm.

Enough already, whats your point? Do you want something for pointing out a typo? No one gives a shit.

[acw]

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=195637

6 years ago nothing came out of it. Will be no better this time.

Besides that nothing is better than:
http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by acw

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=195637

6 years ago nothing came out of it. Will be no better this time.

Besides that nothing is better than:
http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry

Not too long ago, the same was said about General Motors...

It's never too late to improve and implement more stringent guidelines that sports books must follow in order to be recognized as one who has demonstarted FILL DISCLOSURE & TRANSPARENCY....

As I mentioned earlier, I have had 2 COSTA RICAN SPIRTS BOOKS CALL and tell me this a a GREAT idea and to make sure I included them sooner rather than later...

THE SHRINK

[ONESWEETWORLD]

Originally Posted by THE SHRINK

Not too long ago, the same was said about General Motors...

It's never too late to improve and implement more stringent guidelines that sports books must follow in order to be recognized as one who has demonstarted FILL DISCLOSURE & TRANSPARENCY....

As I mentioned earlier, I have had 2 COSTA RICAN SPIRTS BOOKS CALL and tell me this a a GREAT idea and to make sure I included them sooner rather than later...

THE SHRINK

Which 2 books have "volunteered?"

[BPVader]

I want to go to CR Shrink on your dime

[ballwonder]

Originally Posted by BPVader

I want to go to CR Shrink on your dime

Tell your friends at Don Carbone I said hi......

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by ONESWEETWORLD

Which 2 books have "volunteered?"

1-BETPHOENIX

2-CRIS/BOOKMAKER



THE SHRINK

[BPVader]

Shrink can I come then? I got the bags packed already and am ready to go

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by ballwonder

Tell your friends at Don Carbone I said hi......

How fast does it take to get a passport?

[munson15]

Originally Posted by Doug

WSEX is now bottom of the barrel, like Oddsmaker, SBG global,BETUS,Sportsbook.com,etc.

Only in the sense that their juice is prohibitive compared to Matchbook. I think Jimmy was referring mainly to the safety of the money and the security of knowing he can get paid.

[showtime]

I simply cannot understand why everyone assumes that WSEX of today is the same as in the past. The facts are that they used pay out the same day, then it went to ten days, then 30, then 60 and now its over seventy days. In addition, because of this, players are moving their action elsewhere, so they cannot be bringing in the same level of deposits as a few years ago. I would assume that they are experiencing a higher withdrawal /deposit ratio, and if they are experiencing cash flow problems, the first sign to the player would be slow pay. I just can’t see how these “processor” issues keep getting worse while they are taking less action. In my mind, this problem at WSEX could be exactly what Shrink was writing about.

[sean1]

Shrink, I've got four questions for you to ask the books while down there. Would love to hear the answers when you report back.

1. Why has no book gone to the Pinnacle model for the U.S.? Given that Pinnacle's lines can be easily cloned nearly instantaneously, it would quite easy to offer -104 as Pinny does, sit on a ton of cash, pay quickly, and make a lot of money serving the U.S. market.

2. Why has no one opened a Neteller like outfit? Part two to the question, if they feel servicing the U.S. is too dangerous, why has no one opened a neteller like outfit for Canada?

3. Why can Matchbook pay overnight and WSEX take 2 months?

4. Why have the most legit 10 or 20 books note set up a web to transfer money between them. Easy and automated online would be best. (Obviously they could set a limit where you would call). This would decrease their number of checks to the U.S. by a LOT.

Thanks

Sean

[Mr. NBA]

Originally Posted by sean1

Shrink, I've got four questions for you to ask the books while down there. Would love to hear the answers when you report back.

1. Why has no book gone to the Pinnacle model for the U.S.? Given that Pinnacle's lines can be easily cloned nearly instantaneously, it would quite easy to offer -104 as Pinny does, sit on a ton of cash, pay quickly, and make a lot of money serving the U.S. market.

2. Why has no one opened a Neteller like outfit? Part two to the question, if they feel servicing the U.S. is too dangerous, why has no one opened a neteller like outfit for Canada?

3. Why can Matchbook pay overnight and WSEX take 2 months?

4. Why have the most legit 10 or 20 books note set up a web to transfer money between them. Easy and automated online would be best. (Obviously they could set a limit where you would call). This would decrease their number of checks to the U.S. by a LOT.

Thanks

Sean

Sean have you tried "G"=pay?


I like question 4

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by sean1

Shrink, I've got four questions for you to ask the books while down there. Would love to hear the answers when you report back.

1. Why has no book gone to the Pinnacle model for the U.S.? Given that Pinnacle's lines can be easily cloned nearly instantaneously, it would quite easy to offer -104 as Pinny does, sit on a ton of cash, pay quickly, and make a lot of money serving the U.S. market.

2. Why has no one opened a Neteller like outfit? Part two to the question, if they feel servicing the U.S. is too dangerous, why has no one opened a neteller like outfit for Canada?

3. Why can Matchbook pay overnight and WSEX take 2 months?

4. Why have the most legit 10 or 20 books note set up a web to transfer money between them. Easy and automated online would be best. (Obviously they could set a limit where you would call). This would decrease their number of checks to the U.S. by a LOT.

Thanks

Sean

I like your questions...

I can answer number 4.

They wont do that because the conspiracy card comes into play. 15 years automatically in US courts. They dont want to take any chances with the U.S. right now.

I can answer number 3.

They dont have it. There is no other reason. Processor bullshit stories, is just that. Bullshit.

[Viejo Dinosaur]

As long as the books have to use processors in order to get you paid as quickly as possible, that's the way it is...some processors are better than others..it is not bullshit...

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by Viejo Dinosaur

As long as the books have to use processors in order to get you paid as quickly as possible, that's the way it is...some processors are better than others..it is not bullshit...

V.D. No disrespect. However, I blame the processor delays on the book. You must improvise. You have to be an ass to bank on these processors. There are better ways around this.

Common V.D. I have never been to C.R. but I will bet on this. If I had to walk CR and get people paid, I would. Are you telling me all the Mg and Wu are gone? If I had to keep a customer, I would walk miles to keep a customer. Plus if that backfired, I would have someone in the U.S. ready to get these customers paid.


This is what I am talking about. How come in these days and times, books are not taking steps like these? It is hard as hell to keep customers and you gamble on Visa or Mastercard? That is a horrifically run outfit.

To bank on one processor is absolute Russian Roulette.

These things need to be addressed when Shrink walks the walk. These are new times V.D. I can understand the pre-BOS days with Visa/MC...But these days, you better have a backup to get these players paid. It is the perfect crime to use the processor excuse to rob a players money. perfect example. Lazer...

[Just a Man]

The Books that are going to invite Ken are going to have their shit together, this is why they are inviting him. If I was a book and had my shit together, I would be very happy to have Ken stop in for a visit. This only installs more confidence for the players. Listen, I know its easy to cook these books, "my buddy was a CPA for Vegas casinos" and those books were clean, but he said it like this. If they looked good, leave them alone, don't find things that dont need to be addressed.

I have alot to say about this, please stay tuned..I have to run out a minute.

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by sean1

Shrink, I've got four questions for you to ask the books while down there. Would love to hear the answers when you report back.

1. Why has no book gone to the Pinnacle model for the U.S.? Given that Pinnacle's lines can be easily cloned nearly instantaneously, it would quite easy to offer -104 as Pinny does, sit on a ton of cash, pay quickly, and make a lot of money serving the U.S. market.

2. Why has no one opened a Neteller like outfit? Part two to the question, if they feel servicing the U.S. is too dangerous, why has no one opened a neteller like outfit for Canada?

3. Why can Matchbook pay overnight and WSEX take 2 months?

4. Why have the most legit 10 or 20 books note set up a web to transfer money between them. Easy and automated online would be best. (Obviously they could set a limit where you would call). This would decrease their number of checks to the U.S. by a LOT.

Thanks

Sean

I will refrain from responding for now, but consider it done....

THE SHRINK

Originally Posted by Just a Man

The Books that are going to invite Ken are going to have their shit together, this is why they are inviting him. If I was a book and had my shit together, I would be very happy to have Ken stop in for a visit. This only installs more confidence for the players. Listen, I know its easy to cook these books, "my buddy was a CPA for Vegas casinos" and those books were clean, but he said it like this. If they looked good, leave them alone, don't find things that dont need to be addressed.

I have alot to say about this, please stay tuned..I have to run out a minute.

I think The Man (pun intended) may be on to something...

In the new POST UIGEA environment, the burdon of PROOF should be on the sports books and not the players!

"What used to be doesn't matter anymore..."

THE SHRINK

[Just a Man]

Shrink, I cannot see you going to CR without someone who is neutral and has legitimate questions. The Pie may look good, but its just whip cream and a cherry on top. You dont need a yes man, you need a bulldog. Especially if you want to accomplish this goal of yours. I think it is a fantastic idea.

I want to know contingency plans for the books " just in case scenarios". This would clearly seperate the A and B books.

Rules issues: I believe that there should be one more avenue between the forums and the books. A panel of wiseman, example VD and 6 others. There are 7 trusted men in this offshore world. After these 7, I would find it difficult to come up with "trusted and well known experts" I would get them now. That would be your call Ken. But that would seperate you from other forums. People love decisions, rulings...ect.....Your forum would become Rome, and it would be in your hands to keep it an empire.

Since I have been a member at this forum, I truly believe this forum is a people's forum. Cencorship is not an issue. When people are involved in issues and topics, the model works. When it turns into communism, the model does not work. I see the Shrink's vision, and yes he can make it work. If you read between the lines, he is going to CR for the players. He does not need the money, he does not need to smooze his relations, he is going down there looking for books that are the best of the best. This makes the empire stronger. Players will then join these books with the safe sense that their money is safe, and the business model is good. They will know that Ken has direct contact with owners and managers of these players.

I will never play at a book again unless I know, that Ballwonder or Ken has complete faith in. I apologize to other moderators at this time for I have not had a chance to personally chat with you.

More to come...

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

Shrink, I cannot see you going to CR without someone who is neutral and has legitimate questions. The Pie may look good, but its just whip cream and a cherry on top. You dont need a yes man, you need a bulldog. Especially if you want to accomplish this goal of yours. I think it is a fantastic idea.

I want to know contingency plans for the books " just in case scenarios". This would clearly seperate the A and B books.

Rules issues: I believe that there should be one more avenue between the forums and the books. A panel of wiseman, example VD and 6 others. There are 7 trusted men in this offshore world. After these 7, I would find it difficult to come up with "trusted and well known experts" I would get them now. That would be your call Ken. But that would seperate you from other forums. People love decisions, rulings...ect.....Your forum would become Rome, and it would be in your hands to keep it an empire.

Since I have been a member at this forum, I truly believe this forum is a people's forum. Cencorship is not an issue. When people are involved in issues and topics, the model works. When it turns into communism, the model does not work. I see the Shrink's vision, and yes he can make it work. If you read between the lines, he is going to CR for the players. He does not need the money, he does not need to smooze his relations, he is going down there looking for books that are the best of the best. This makes the empire stronger. Players will then join these books with the safe sense that their money is safe, and the business model is good. They will know that Ken has direct contact with owners and managers of these players.

I will never play at a book again unless I know, that Ballwonder or Ken has complete faith in. I apologize to other moderators at this time for I have not had a chance to personally chat with you.

More to come...

Are you an accountant? Have you ever did an internal or external of a billion dollar company?

I have, and I assume Janus would have too, I think that is why Shrink was asking us. Just a guess.

If you don't know what bulldogs auditor are, you have never worked 20 hour days with them providing the information they are constantly requesting.

[sean1]

Im still confused on how WSEX can blame a processor but Matchbook pays in one day. They are still coowned, right? Wouldnt the logical sense be to use Matchbook's processor?

[showtime]

I am not sure what is going on, but there have been ramblings that WSEX was invested with Stanford Financial. Mr. Cohen of WSEX said that they couldn’t have invested with Stanford because Stanford wouldn’t accept money from casinos or gambling related businesses. Now, I don’t believe that someone running a billion dollar Ponzi scheme would jump to some moral high ground when it comes to gambling. I don’t necessarily believe WSEX had invested, but being that Stanford was pretty much the king of Antigua, I wouldn’t be surprised. In any case, the bottom line is I believe that WSEX is low on cash, but that doesn’t mean it is true. A friend of mine, who knows about these forums but doesn’t post, told WSEX after many days of non-payment that he would tell all on these forums. He had his cash the next day. Actions like these make me cringe, because I would then believe that they are trying to protect their name while delaying payment. A good question would be that would a failure of WSEX also bring down the now almighty Matchbook because of their relation? If you need a recent example, you can look at the failing Hummer brand, but despite their problems a few other lines are doing well. What do they do, discontinue the Hummer line and keep the profitable ones running. If this would be similar to a failing WSEX and profitable Matchbook, then I believe that public perception of a WSEX fallout would certainly affect Matchbook in a negative way. With this in mind, they would need to make WSEX look as strong as ever. They have been holding on to the processor issue for a long time. They know that they are losing customers, and have been for a while. Like the man said above, I would do whatever it takes to pay “and keep” a customer. They just aren’t doing this. I hope that some answers to this question, as well as books that others play, could arrive from Shrink’s trip.

[Doug]

Something sure isn't right with WSEX. Hopefully they have the post-up monies to pay all clients.

For the above reasons, I'd not keep too much at Matchbook, transfer some out if you win big there, or bring it home in a check.

[BADTTBONE]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

V.D. No disrespect. However, I blame the processor delays on the book. You must improvise. You have to be an ass to bank on these processors. There are better ways around this.

Common V.D. I have never been to C.R. but I will bet on this. If I had to walk CR and get people paid, I would. Are you telling me all the Mg and Wu are gone? If I had to keep a customer, I would walk miles to keep a customer. Plus if that backfired, I would have someone in the U.S. ready to get these customers paid.


This is what I am talking about. How come in these days and times, books are not taking steps like these? It is hard as hell to keep customers and you gamble on Visa or Mastercard? That is a horrifically run outfit.

To bank on one processor is absolute Russian Roulette.

These things need to be addressed when Shrink walks the walk. These are new times V.D. I can understand the pre-BOS days with Visa/MC...But these days, you better have a backup to get these players paid. It is the perfect crime to use the processor excuse to rob a players money. perfect example. Lazer...

Excellent questioning justaman...right outta my mouth !

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by BADTTBONE

Excellent questioning justaman...right outta my mouth !

Thank you BTTB...That is just the beginning.

Here are my qualifications for being the number 1 book out there. I dont think all the criteria's can be met, but lets give it a shot. They are not in any specific order, but they are important.

1. Whenever there is a dispute between player and book. The person to handle this would be the manager, the person that is able to get into the sytem and make the changes, without being questioned to why or how he did it by the owner. Get rid of the RED TAPE. Get it done and move on.
( I already know the book that does this, his first name begins with an "s". He is the best. Nobody better as of today. He gets on the phone and the damn problem is corrected in 5 minutes. When you ask for him, the clerk does not ask you, " can I be of service"? He comes right to the phone. Customer service is extremely important.

2. Payouts: The good books will not post all their payout methods. I think this is excellent. The bottom line is that people get paid. Players that bet 100-500 expect payouts anywhere from 5-15 days. This is protocol, and checks would be fine. If you have a heavy hitter, you must have mg and w/ ready for him. Big guys could give a shit about fees, so whatever it is, I know they would pay. The book must be reasonable and not make money off the players that are requesting a payout. "Ridiculous charges"

3. As a book, you better beat the locals. These 20 and 30 cent lines are not the answer. You should have dime lines, no matter what the amount of the wager is. You will keep your small betters and your big betters. This will not hurt your bottom line. You will keep your customers, they will return.

4. Cut out the -120 on single games for the night. Betj seems to pull this move all the time. I dont like it, there are about 2% of gamblers who actually do like it. They are the bonus whores.

5. Stabilize these rollovers. Trickery in the rollovers makes me never want to try you again. Gamblers are not dumb, they are gamblers that enjoy gambling. Not being made an ass out of with ridiculous rollovers, the player eventually hits and then the shit hits the fan. One example, someone had a freeplay with a 10x rollover. The person played a 3 team parlay that paid $1300.00. His rollover turned into $13.000.00. Now that is ridiculous. The player could have very easily played one single game. Once he hit the game he now has $200.oo in his account. Then his rollover is $2000.00. He can then fire all the 3 team parlays he wants. So my decision is this. The book should make the "FREEPLAY AMOUNT" A 10X ROLLOVER. This is simple, no need for a Bible on rollover rules.

6. When a player calls you up and indicates mistakes on your website, reward the guy. Everyone makes mistakes, so let people search your site, looking for these mistakes. They will deposit, it is like free publicity. They feel like they are " part of the team". Again, "S" from Bet----- does this all the time. I have informed him a few times to reset his payouts for breeders cup, the derby, and other premium races. He has to call it in to IT the day before. Both times he gave me $300.00 in my account. Make your business the players home. I love that place. Betphoenix is on that track right now. Richard "listens" and rewards. 5 dimes is an excellent book, however I do not feel comfortable telling the never wrong people that they are wrong.

7. If you make a wrong line, " honor the damn thing" up to the stage of abuse. Each case to be handled on a seperate basis. If you always bet $100 a game and you all of a sudden bet $500.00 on the game, well you are busted. Your money should be refunded. However, if you always bet $100 and the wrong line pops out and the player gets it. Good for him. However if you have rule 6 in play, someone will contact you and you can correct the problem very fast.

This is how I feel as a player. Thank you for listening.

[Joe]

I think this trip is a very good thing.

I recall, a few hundred years ago, that an idea was floated whereby a group of financially solid books would group together for the purposes of providing an insurance plan.

The idea was that the books would contribute money, under the control of an independent party, for the purpose of insuring deposits.

The insurance company would be audited by an independent accounting firm so it would have legitimacy.

Instead of looking at a book individually, players would have the top 10 or 20 to rely upon.

It may be a good time to revisit that idea.

***

This is probably the most important sentence in the article -

"Additionally, I recommend that you also visit well established message boards and forums that allow free speech."

With the number of boards out there and the number of books hurting, now, moreso than ever, you have to beware false praise for advertisers or refusal to allow negative comments about advertisers.

The later being more important.