Some Post Up Bookmakers Are Destined To Fail...

[THE SHRINK]

Online Sports Betting: Some Post Up Bookmakers Are Destined To Fail


written July 2, 2009 by Kenneth Weitzner

Having been involved in this industry for over a decade now, I can't recall a time when online post up bookmakers were being as squeezed for money as they are today. The cost of doing transactions has skyrocketed. Many bookies are being pinched like never before.

In this new post UIGEA environment, the majority of sports books are paying between 5-10% per transaction, With the theoretically hold for most bookmakers harboring right about 5%, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that some sportsbooks are losing money during these tough times. With the absence of any real regulation, I am concerned that gamblers may be stiffed if they aren't well informed.

Furthermore, although no one likes to talk about it, the majority of post up bookies have what is referred to as a post up debt. This means that similar to banks, many sports books do not have all of the money sent to them readily available if every customer were to ask for a withdrawal at the same time.

I have been astonished to learn that the post up debt with some sports books is well over 50% of what they have taken in.

Therefore, it is vital for gamblers to know which sports books are well capitalized and which ones are not.

I am starting a rigorous journey next week to revisit many of the more popular sportsbooks and examine their "books" if they allow me.

Some have already agreed to an internal audit of sorts so that I may report back my findings. Although I would never be permitted to release exact numbers, I have been given the privilege to report the bottom line:

....Whether or not the sportsbook has all the funds readily available to pay their customers completely and in a timely manner when asked.

Furthermore, EOG is establishing a channel where gamblers can contact us to handle any disputes they may be experiencing with online bookmakers. It is absolutely pivotal to have such an entity moving forward and we are striving to be here for you when issues arise.

Therefore, I look forward to returning from the Caribbean in a couple of weeks and just before Football to report back which sportsbooks are healthy and which ones are not.

Additionally, I recommend that you also visit well established message boards and forums that allow free speech. The online posting community is an excellent place to ask questions to others who may have experiences (both good and bad) at places you may be considering joining for Football this year.

In closing, one of the most important things to be remembered is this:

If a bonus/incentive/perk appears to good to be true, it should set off red flags and probably be avoided.

THE SHRINK

[showtime]

Thanks, nice article. Your trip will be worthwhile even if only the solid books share their info. Hope you has some accounting classes back in the day.

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by showtime

Thanks, nice article. Your trip will be worthwhile even if only the solid books share their info. Hope you has some accounting classes back in the day.

Let's hope my accounting skills are a tad better than someone's grammar classes...

[ZZ CREAM]

Two questions, how in the hell will you know if a book is showing you their real books? And why would any book show you their books if they were bad?

[Just a Man]

Shrink, you need some muscle? I have a stop that I would like to make with you? I would like to go with you. I would like to report as a neutral party with no financial interest. I would like to report to the forum how these places look and how the customer service is.

Im in Shrink.

[munson15]

ZZ makes a good point, but I would answer by saying that if the book does not welcome some sort of examination by a watchdog agency, that alone would be cause for concern. As far as phony records, we can only hope that Ken is savvy enough to perhaps get a sense that the people involved are being evasive or not forthcoming with the information they provide. Bottom line, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

[ZZ CREAM]

Originally Posted by munson15

ZZ makes a good point, but I would answer by saying that if the book does not welcome some sort of examination by a watchdog agency, that alone would be cause for concern. As far as phony records, we can only hope that Ken is savvy enough to perhaps get a sense that the people involved are being evasive or not forthcoming with the information they provide. Bottom line, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

You are very nice Munson! I am glad to know you!

P.S. I believe Ken to be very savvy!

[mr merlin]

What if one of these weak books just happens to be one of your advertisers?

[THE SHRINK]

Originally Posted by mr merlin

What if one of these weak books just happens to be one of your advertisers?

I would report the truth and let the chips fall where they will...

Furthermore, I have already warned all sponsors that just because they pay to appear on EOG doesn't grant them immunity from you posters...

Example: Oddsmaker, period....

THE SHRINK

[Doug]

I think the problem is that there are just way too many books in existence. In particular books located in CR, that deal mainly with Americans.

There isn't much reason to use a book like Justbet ( for example). Many others also....Wagerweb, WSEX,Beted,etc.

Reduced vig shops like 5D,Phoenix should kill most -110 books, with the exception of pioneers like CRIS, and Greek.

Then there's Matchbook, that has the potential to become the Walmart of books dealing with Gringos.

These "fringe" books need something unique, everything has been tried already.

The few A books around offer everything the minor books have, and years of reputation.

Consolidation is coming.

The current way is like a town of 25,000 people having 10 supermarkets....way too many !

No way would I touch any smallish books, the overhead will kill them. Like all of Roberto's "rookie books".

Even some of the big books could be iffy. WSEX for example, maybe Sportsbook.com,Bodog,etc. ?

[FiremanJoe]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

Shrink, you need some muscle? I have a stop that I would like to make with you? I would like to go with you. I would like to report as a neutral party with no financial interest. I would like to report to the forum how these places look and how the customer service is.

Im in Shrink.

EVE DOES NOT WANT TO SEE YOU

[betfirstclass]

JOE

How are you????? I am still "SICK" over back to back losers I gave you AFTER going 5-0 . . . .


HAPPY 4th JULY to YA . . . .

[Mammon]

Shrink in your free vacation, remember a rich owner does not make a book work if they are losing money.

Save some perks/payoffs for the next bash..

[William Lee]

Playing at books that give HUGE bonuses is a major red flag. Now if they are in business for a long period of time then I guess its oK> But me, I never ask for any bonus, paying out in a rapid matter is the only BONUS I want.

[betfirstclass]

Originally Posted by William Lee

Playing at books that give HUGE bonuses is a major red flag. Now if they are in business for a long period of time then I guess its oK> But me, I never ask for any bonus, paying out in a rapid matter is the only BONUS I want.

AGREE 1000000%


and lately amazed to see how many acct holders have asked mgmt. to waive BONUS in LIEU of being able cash out whenever hell they choose AND yes, WE STILL OFFER SAME DAY PAYOUTS . . . . .

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by betfirstclass

AGREE 1000000%


and lately amazed to see how many acct holders have asked mgmt. to waive BONUS in LIEU of being able cash out whenever hell they choose AND yes, WE STILL OFFER SAME DAY PAYOUTS . . . . .

Are you going to smooze the shrink?

[BrickShitHouse]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

Are you going to smooze the shrink?

He already did, Mike is smarter than he sounds on the forums.

[Mammon]

odds Shrinkie gets at least a happy ending with ticos/sluts..

-1000
+850

Everynight odds -110
+100

or -120 each way at bfc.

[Viejo Dinosaur]

Shrink, I really think this will be a pipe dream...the smaller books will show you a good time and show you what they want you to see...it is a noble effort...

The posters here and on most forums are the barometer for knowing which books to avoid...have a good trip...

[janus]

good concept, shrink. it seems there would be a very good business opportunity for a 3rd party to exist as a true auditor that players knew they could trust, and books had to allow in in order to belong to an audited & thus trusted group. players & books alike would have tremendous incentive to interface with the auditor.

in an era where hedge funds are getting blown up as frauds by the day, ethical fund managers are seeking out reputable 3rd parties to audit them so investors can feel comfortable handing over their money, and this situation is no different.

obviously that third party can't be a forum that accepts book advertising, but the idea is a good one.

[Just a Man]

Originally Posted by janus

good concept, shrink. it seems there would be a very good business opportunity for a 3rd party to exist as a true auditor that players knew they could trust, and books had to allow in in order to belong to an audited & thus trusted group. players & books alike would have tremendous incentive to interface with the auditor.

in an era where hedge funds are getting blown up as frauds by the day, ethical fund managers are seeking out reputable 3rd parties to audit them so investors can feel comfortable handing over their money, and this situation is no different.

obviously that third party can't be a forum that accepts book advertising, but the idea is a good one.

I have the time and I would like to offer my services. I would like to represent the players.

I am 100% serious.

[Mammon]

i'll pay for my own tripp and can offer to be the driver but I get a happy ending to everynight.. Shinkie rents the bulletproof hummer though. Peru is pink..

[janus]

Originally Posted by Just a Man

I have the time and I would like to offer my services. I would like to represent the players.

I am 100% serious.

do it. the company has to be completely independent, so start it up. you cannot be seen as a gambler or a forum or any entity able to be influenced by either side. if you have audit experience & enough marketing capital to convince both sides that you are neutral, you'll make a mint.

you'd put the shrink out of business, but hey, what's a bit of collateral damage amongst friends?

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by janus

good concept, shrink. it seems there would be a very good business opportunity for a 3rd party to exist as a true auditor that players knew they could trust, and books had to allow in in order to belong to an audited & thus trusted group. players & books alike would have tremendous incentive to interface with the auditor.

in an era where hedge funds are getting blown up as frauds by the day, ethical fund managers are seeking out reputable 3rd parties to audit them so investors can feel comfortable handing over their money, and this situation is no different.

obviously that third party can't be a forum that accepts book advertising, but the idea is a good one.

I was a corporate accountant for 10 years and think auditing a book would be rather easy, though I have a very rudimentary understanding of their business models. Also, as we have all seen on wall st and with banks, etc as janus mentioned, cooking books is not hard if you lack a 3rd party auditor. Shit, even with one, if they are not honest, it's a simple task. Especially if you if you take into account what you can do moving things around on your balance sheet.

The big issue I would think would be the willingness of 100% tranperancy from the books.

[joeybagadonuts]

I can go into details about the other issues with auditing a unregulated entity if people wish. Including write off of bad debt, uncollectable recievables, and the how they recognize their revenue as I doubt it complies with GAAP regulations.

[janus]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

The big issue I would think would be the willingness of 100% tranperancy from the books.

imo, the hurdle there would be having that 3rd party auditor be so respected that if a book didn't provide that level of transparency, they'd be labeled 'blackbox' and any player would know they were taking their chances. any reputatble book would bend over backward to avoid the 'blackbox' label if the auditor had any clout at all.

such a system would alleviate the 'paid promoter' problem.

[janus]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

I can go into details about the other issues with auditing a unregulated entity if people wish. Including write off of bad debt, uncollectable recievables, and the how they recognize their revenue as I doubt it complies with GAAP regulations.

i've served as CFO for several entities, and all those points are critical. i doubt genpop cares too much about the details of our world (), but i think we agree it could be done if somebody had the initiative & background.

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by janus

i've served as CFO for several entities, and all those points are critical. i doubt genpop cares too much about the details of our world (), but i think we agree it could be done if somebody had the initiative & background.

Interesting. I always thought you were one of the more intelligent posters on the board, but I wouldn't have guessed CFO. You seem to be a little too open-minded and philosophical to have worked in the finance and accounting world. Than again, my CFO (he was the CFO of one of the business divisions of Msoft) always said that I was the most unlikely accountant he had ever met and he said he had worked with 1000s.

[Mammon]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

Interesting. I always thought you were one of the more intelligent posters on the board, but I wouldn't have guessed CFO. You seem to be a little too open-minded and philosophical to have worked in the finance and accounting world. Than again, my CFO (he was the CFO of one of the business divisions of Msoft) always said that I was the most unlikely accountant he had ever met and he said he had worked with 1000s.

CFO=self/employed... or un,,

[janus]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

You seem to be a little too open-minded and philosophical to have worked in the finance and accounting world.

hence my preference for self-employment, though i rule myself with an iron fist . i now operate as an investor (for myself and a few who trust me) and an independent management consultant.

i'd not have guessed you an accountant either.

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by janus

hence my preference for self-employment, though i rule myself with an iron fist . i now operate as an investor (for myself and a few who trust me) and an independent management consultant.

i'd not have guessed you an accountant either.

Yea, the whole corporate world wasn't for me. No clue how I lasted almost 10 years. I started in accounting, moved to more biz dev stuff, then to procurement. I got stuck doing the due diligence when Msoft was trying to acquire us, but I guess I did it too well b/c when the deal went official there was a contingency that I move BACK to accounting and report into the CFO our our business division in Redmond. It was either that, or move to Fargo, ND. I choose to neither, as any normal human would.

I was finally able to work myself out of the job and collect a healthy severance and a large stock payout from the accelerated vesting I had in my original contract.

I will NEVER, I repeat NEVER work in accounting again. I would rather watch paint dry. I did make some great contacts, though and when I finally get off this damn disability I should be set to get a good job, just not in accounting!

[joeybagadonuts]

Originally Posted by janus

imo, the hurdle there would be having that 3rd party auditor be so respected that if a book didn't provide that level of transparency, they'd be labeled 'blackbox' and any player would know they were taking their chances. any reputatble book would bend over backward to avoid the 'blackbox' label if the auditor had any clout at all.

such a system would alleviate the 'paid promoter' problem.

I like the 'blackbox' idea, btw.

It would certainly be helpful to all the players. If all the forums could ever band together rather than fighting uselessly I'm sure they could convince the books that actually advertise to allow a independent person see their books. Than again, I don't trust anyone involved in this industry so the hardest part would be finding an independent person who couldn't be bought off by the books, nor influenced by the hookers and coke that would be thrown at them while they were down there "working".

[janus]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

Yea, the whole corporate world wasn't for me. No clue how I lasted almost 10 years. I started in accounting, moved to more biz dev stuff, then to procurement. I got stuck doing the due diligence when Msoft was trying to acquire us, but I guess I did it too well b/c when the deal went official there was a contingency that I move BACK to accounting and report into the CFO our our business division in Redmond. It was either that, or move to Fargo, ND. I choose to neither, as any normal human would.

I was finally able to work myself out of the job and collect a healthy severance and a large stock payout from the accelerated vesting I had in my original contract.

I will NEVER, I repeat NEVER work in accounting again. I would rather watch paint dry. I did make some great contacts, though and when I finally get off this damn disability I should be set to get a good job, just not in accounting!

1999-2001, i worked for a microsoft & qualcomm joint venture in san diego called 'wireless knowledge'. it was a pathetic excuse for a company, and my last foray in the employment world... so bad i vowed never to work for 'the man' again. so i guess we share that msoft connection.

[janus]

Originally Posted by joeybagadonuts

I like the 'blackbox' idea, btw.

It would certainly be helpful to all the players. If all the forums could ever band together rather than fighting uselessly I'm sure they could convince the books that actually advertise to allow a independent person see their books. Than again, I don't trust anyone involved in this industry so the hardest part would be finding an independent person who couldn't be bought off by the books, nor influenced by the hookers and coke that would be thrown at them while they were down there "working".

i'd think it would need to be an entity independent of the existing forums, operating on a model similar to the current big accounting firms. it'd stand alone on its merit & charge fees to books to audit them. books could stand unaudited & thus be suspect or pay for validation, similar to current "above-board" hedge funds.

[THE SHRINK]

I love the feedback...

Perhaps I will ask one of our more critical members to assist with the audit...

Having one extra layer of credibility won't hurt...

Two Costa Rican bookmakers have already volunteered for total transparency of their books...

I just wonder WHO would want to go to COSTA RICA on my dime and also on rather short notice?

I would really hate to inconvenience someone like janus or Joey...

THE SHRINK