[The Seer]

About ten years ago, I had a pocket device that could be programmed to try various styles and play itself for hours to give you the house edge. It had a chart that changed the splitting of 7's for sure and I think 6,5,4,3's depending on the count.

Does anyone use a system like this?

[Reload]

When I count cards, I only count the 10's so I can only go by my experience there. Basically, if a fewextra ten's per deck are left out there, it's sometimes good to split when you might not normally do it - like splitting 4's against a 4 or a 3, so splitting 9's against a 7. Still though, it's pretty few and far between where this would happen. I'd still never advise splitting 10's.

I'd say where it becomes more of a factor has been when less 10's are left per deck than their should be (a "minus" count basically). That's when you want to avoid splitting in a lot of circumstances because you are already at a disadvantage with a minus count (you should try ducking out and not even playing if the deck gets really negative). Even against a 5 or a 6, you'd probably want to avoid splitting if the remaining decks are light on 10's. Have been at the table many times where I don't split and everyone thinks I am crazy only to see the dealer not bust.

[Cordy]

I only count the 10's

When you say this, I assume you count aces as a ten and deduct 2-6 for a balanced count. Let me know if this is wrong.

A friend only counts aces. He goes to Vegas once a year, mostly for fun. By counting aces, it is easy even when having a number of beers. He is trying to avoid heat by always surrendering pair of 8's vs 10 or ace. The win ratio on splitting 8's against a ten is real, but small. He still gets some heat when he jumps to $100 from $10 when half the deck is out and all the aces are in the shoe.

We both shun 6:5 games!!

[Almost Allright]

Originally Posted by Reload

I'd say where it becomes more of a factor has been when less 10's are left per deck than their should be (a "minus" count basically). That's when you want to avoid splitting in a lot of circumstances because you are already at a disadvantage with a minus count (you should try ducking out and not even playing if the deck gets really negative). Even against a 5 or a 6, you'd probably want to avoid splitting if the remaining decks are light on 10's. Have been at the table many times where I don't split and everyone thinks I am crazy only to see the dealer not bust.

If the deck is minus your bet should be low. You have to split 7's against 4 5 6 or you might as well stamp I am counting on your forehead. There is no way you can get away with this play for long. You will make up the extra unit when the deck is rich. Deception is as key as counting accurate.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by Cordy

When you say this, I assume you count aces as a ten and deduct 2-6 for a balanced count. Let me know if this is wrong.

A friend only counts aces. He goes to Vegas once a year, mostly for fun. By counting aces, it is easy even when having a number of beers. He is trying to avoid heat by always surrendering pair of 8's vs 10 or ace. The win ratio on splitting 8's against a ten is real, but small. He still gets some heat when he jumps to $100 from $10 when half the deck is out and all the aces are in the shoe.

We both shun 6:5 games!!

No, I only count tens - I count how many 10's have been discarded. If 3 decks have been discarded and 45 10's are gone, that means there are 3 extra 10's floating around in the remaining decks.

I don't count aces. In environments where I mostly play (6 deck, table nearly full) counting aces has never helped much - it's a very long term proposition. You'd have to hope the ace comes out to begin with, hope it ends up on your hand and not another person's - especially the dealer's, and hope a 10 comes with it. 10's themselves are more involved in various phases of the hand - doubling down, drawing 20's, the dealer busting, and whether basic strategy is going to hold up. If you're playing a heads up double deck game against the dealer, then it's sure a lot more worth it to count aces.

As for low cards, it helps if you can keep track of them but honestly without at least some low cards around the dealer would not bust and you would get less double and split opportunities.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by Almost Allright

If the deck is minus your bet should be low. You have to split 7's against 4 5 6 or you might as well stamp I am counting on your forehead. There is no way you can get away with this play for long. You will make up the extra unit when the deck is rich. Deception is as key as counting accurate.

Yes, betting should be at a minimum when the count has less 10's in it then there should be. But when the minimum is being bet, I am not as concerned about my counting cover being blown. One time I remember being dealt 6's against a 4 - not only did I not split, but I actually hit instead of staying. Yeah it looks awkward and other players at the table might complain, but that's how it goes.

[Almost Allright]

Originally Posted by Reload

Yes, betting should be at a minimum when the count has less 10's in it then there should be. But when the minimum is being bet, I am not as concerned about my counting cover being blown. One time I remember being dealt 6's against a 4 - not only did I not split, but I actually hit instead of staying. Yeah it looks awkward and other players at the table might complain, but that's how it goes.

don't you think if you made that play 3 times in a session it would draw attention? As far as what the table thinks, who cares. it is the pit boss and the eye in the sky that matters.

good topic btw

[The Seer]

I also watch clumps of cards. A version of shuffle tracking. I have had the table complain when I'm at third base and ht a hard 17 vs a ten card up. I do this when I have a ten dealt first and we are in a ten clunp. The dealer likely has a ten under then. One session I hit 17 vs ten 4 times. On two times a player left because it was "bad". Who cares. The fact that the dealer already had a 20 did not matter. Three times I busted but once I drew a 4 for a win. I never get a look as it appears stupid.

There are clumps early in a fresh deck because the wash and shuffle does not randomize the cards for an hour or more.