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dirty · 03-09-07, 08:14 AM

Michael Moore Owns Halliburton Stock
World Net Daily| November 2 2005
"I don't own a single share of stock!" filmmaker Michael Moore proudly proclaimed.
He's right. He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares – including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11."
If you want to see Moore's own signed Schedule D declaring his capital gains and losses where his stock ownership is listed, it's emblazoned on the cover of Peter Schweizer's new book, "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy."
And it's just one of the startling revelations by Schweizer, famous for his previous works, "Reagan's War" and "The Bushes."
Other examples:
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who proclaims her support for unions, yet the luxury resort, the vineyard and the restaurants she partly owns are strictly non-union. While she advocates tough new laws enforcing environmental regulations on the private sector, the exclusive country club she partly owns failed to comply with existing environmental regulations for the past eight years – including a failure to protect endangered species.
Noam Chomsky has made a reputation for calling America a police state and branding the Pentagon "the most hideous institution on earth," yet his entire academic career, writes Schweizer, has been subsidized by the U.S. military.
Barbra Streisand is another proponent of environmentalism, yet she drives an SUV, lives in a mansion and has a $22,000 annual water bill. In the past, she has driven to appointments in Beverly Hills in a motor home because of her aversion to using public bathrooms.
Ralph Nader plays the role of the citizen avenger – the populist uninterested in wealth and materialism, pretending to live in a modest apartment. In fact, he lives in fancy homes registered in the names of his siblings.
This is not just a book of "gotcha" journalism, explains Schweizer. He says the dozens and dozens of examples of "liberal hypocrisy" he cites in his book "are of central importance in evaluating the validity and usefulness of liberal ideas."
"Using IRS records, court depositions, news reports, financial disclosures and their own statements, I sought to answer a particular question: Do these liberal leaders and activists practice what they preach?" he writes. "What I found was a stunning record of open and shameless hypocrisy. Those who champion the cause of organized labor had developed various methods to avoid paying union wages or shunned unions altogether.
"Those who believe that the rich need to pay more in taxes proved especially adept at avoiding taxes themselves. Critics of capitalism and corporate enterprise frequently invested in the very companies they denounced. Those who espouse strict environmental regulations worked vigorously to sidestep them when it came to their own businesses and properties. Those who advocate steep inheritance taxes to promote fairer income distribution hid their investments in trusts or exotic overseas locales to reduce their own tax liability. Those who are strong proponents of affirmative action rarely practiced it themselves, and some had abysmal records when it came to hiring minorities. Those who proclaim themselves champions of civil liberties when it comes to criminal or terrorist cases went to extraordinary lengths to curtail the civil liberties of others when they felt threatened or just inconvenienced. Advocates of gun control had no problem making sure that an arsenal of weapons was available to protect them from dangerous criminals."

Michael Moore Owns Halliburton Stock

dirty · 03-09-07, 08:14 AM

Michael Moore
owns Halliburton!
New book debunks claims of celebrity activists

Posted: November 1, 2005
10:23 p.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Michael Moore

"I don't own a single share of stock!" filmmaker Michael Moore proudly proclaimed.
He's right. He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares – including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11."

If you want to see Moore's own signed Schedule D declaring his capital gains and losses where his stock ownership is listed, it's emblazoned on the cover of Peter Schweizer's new book, "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy."
And it's just one of the startling revelations by Schweizer, famous for his previous works, "Reagan's War" and "The Bushes."
Other examples:

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who proclaims her support for unions, yet the luxury resort, the vineyard and the restaurants she partly owns are strictly non-union. While she advocates tough new laws enforcing environmental regulations on the private sector, the exclusive country club she partly owns failed to comply with existing environmental regulations for the past eight years – including a failure to protect endangered species.

Noam Chomsky has made a reputation for calling America a police state and branding the Pentagon "the most hideous institution on earth," yet his entire academic career, writes Schweizer, has been subsidized by the U.S. military.

Barbra Streisand is another proponent of environmentalism, yet she drives an SUV, lives in a mansion and has a $22,000 annual water bill. In the past, she has driven to appointments in Beverly Hills in a motor home because of her aversion to using public bathrooms.

Ralph Nader plays the role of the citizen avenger – the populist uninterested in wealth and materialism, pretending to live in a modest apartment. In fact, he lives in fancy homes registered in the names of his siblings.

This is not just a book of "gotcha" journalism, explains Schweizer. He says the dozens and dozens of examples of "liberal hypocrisy" he cites in his book "are of central importance in evaluating the validity and usefulness of liberal ideas."
"Using IRS records, court depositions, news reports, financial disclosures and their own statements, I sought to answer a particular question: Do these liberal leaders and activists practice what they preach?" he writes. "What I found was a stunning record of open and shameless hypocrisy. Those who champion the cause of organized labor had developed various methods to avoid paying union wages or shunned unions altogether.
"Those who believe that the rich need to pay more in taxes proved especially adept at avoiding taxes themselves. Critics of capitalism and corporate enterprise frequently invested in the very companies they denounced. Those who espouse strict environmental regulations worked vigorously to sidestep them when it came to their own businesses and properties. Those who advocate steep inheritance taxes to promote fairer income distribution hid their investments in trusts or exotic overseas locales to reduce their own tax liability. Those who are strong proponents of affirmative action rarely practiced it themselves, and some had abysmal records when it came to hiring minorities. Those who proclaim themselves champions of civil liberties when it comes to criminal or terrorist cases went to extraordinary lengths to curtail the civil liberties of others when they felt threatened or just inconvenienced. Advocates of gun control had no problem making sure that an arsenal of weapons was available to protect them from dangerous criminals."
Buy "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy."

The Devil · 03-09-07, 08:18 AM

DIRTY, GUESS WHERE HE GETS HIS CASH???? FROM THOSE UNBLINKING LEFT WINGERS THAT BUY INTO HIS CRAP........

MOORE MAKES MORE ON HIS FILMS THAN ALEX JONES COULD EVER MAKE ON HIS TSHIRT SALES..........

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 08:18 AM

SPeaking of Halliburton ...

How about the billions they bilked this country for out of Iraq while ex
Halliburton CEO Cheney was still on the payroll???

The Devil · 03-09-07, 08:30 AM

HOW COULD A MAN SO MORALLY PERFECT LIKE MICHAEL MOORE BUY THEIR STOCK IF THAT WAS TRUE????

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 08:31 AM

How could a MAN OF GOD like Bush use lies to invade illegally a Muslim
country and kill 600,000 innocent Iraqis???

dirty · 03-09-07, 08:31 AM

AGain Doc Changes the Subject...

The Devil · 03-09-07, 08:33 AM

HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT CHANGE THE SUBJECT....HE KNOWS HEAD TO HEAD HE WOULD GET BATTERED IN A DEBATE........I LOVE WATCHING HIM DO THIS.......I JUST SIT BACK AND LAUGH............HE IS SO PREDICTABLE, I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY CARDS AGAINST HIM.....

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 08:37 AM

I am addressing a serious issue ....

I DONT GIVE A SHIT AND NO ONE ELSE DOES ABOUT MOORE's FINANCIAL
HOLDINGS .... HE AINT THE PRESIDENT OR VP OF THIS COUNTRY

Dirty .....BY THE WAY ..... HOW IS THAT THREAD WHERE YOU CLAIMED
I STATED 270,000,000 AMERICANS COMING??

FOR "CLAIMING NOT TO BE A RIGHTIE" YOU SUCK MORE GOP ASS THAN ANYONE ON THIS BOARD

dirty · 03-09-07, 08:38 AM

I told you I answered you Doc...

And this thread is not about Bush or Cheney... Not everything in this world is about them....

The Devil · 03-09-07, 08:42 AM

I KNOW DOC, MICHAEL MOORE IS BARELY SURVIVING ALSO, JUST LIKE ALEX JONES.................

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 08:42 AM

Who cares what stock Moore owns??

Really ...who does???

Halliburton should not be a company the Right should dare bring up with the
bullshit Cheney has pulled off as VP

The Devil · 03-09-07, 08:44 AM

DOC, COME ON YOU'RE A BIG BOY.......HOW COME YOU BROUGHT UP ALL THE STOCKS BUSH'S COUSINS OWN????

dirty · 03-09-07, 08:45 AM

This has nothing to do with Cheney... and all to do with the Hypocrisy of the Left wing Socialist heroes that you tout 24/7 that don't even believe what the hell they are preaching

The Devil · 03-09-07, 08:45 AM

GUESS YOU DON'T LIKE IT WHEN YOU GET THE SAME SHIT THROWN AT YOU AS YOU THROW AT OTHERS.....

PAYBACK IS A BITCH AINT IT........

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 08:48 AM

Bullshit ....

How much damage has Moore done with Halliburton to this country financially??

The Right and their typical bullshit is laughable at best

"Kenny Boy" Lay ...come on down!!

dirty · 03-09-07, 08:51 AM

What does this have to do with Ken Lay Doc... again...you can't stay on Topic

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 09:01 AM

I can stay on topic .... how many folks did Lay fuck financially by lying just like Cheney has done??? Look at where the MFer is investing!!

Lets talk about "Hyprocrisy"

Lets check out Cheneys investmens while he has touted the GREAT AMERICAN ECONOMY UNDER BUSH:

$10 million to $25 million (precise amounts weren't disclosed) of Cheney money residing in a fund that buys mostly high-quality foreign bonds and has limited exposure to dollar assets. That means the vice president is betting on a further decline in the value of the dollar against other currencies, a sorry situation directly related to our huge trade deficit and our debt-ridden federal budget

The Cheneys appear to be profiting from a decline in the United States' economic standing, a situation the vice president has helped to create.

The Devil · 03-09-07, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doc mercer

I can stay on topic .... how many folks did Lay fuck financially by lying just like Cheney has done??? Look at where the MFer is investing!!

Lets talk about "Hyprocrisy"

Lets check out Cheneys investmens while he has touted the GREAT AMERICAN ECONOMY UNDER BUSH:

$10 million to $25 million (precise amounts weren't disclosed) of Cheney money residing in a fund that buys mostly high-quality foreign bonds and has limited exposure to dollar assets. That means the vice president is betting on a further decline in the value of the dollar against other currencies, a sorry situation directly related to our huge trade deficit and our debt-ridden federal budget

The Cheneys appear to be profiting from a decline in the United States' economic standing, a situation the vice president has helped to create.

YOUR FIRST LINE...I CAN STAY ON TOPIC?????

WE ARE TALKING MICHAEL MORE AND SOME OF THE STOCKS HE OWNS......NOW YOU ARE UP TO KEN LAY............HOW IS THAT STAYING ON TOPIC?????

I THINK YOU ARE GETTING CONFUSED......AND YOU CAN ME A SENILE OLD MAN..........

dirty · 03-09-07, 09:05 AM

Doc...Last I checked before you started talking about someone else, this thread was about Michael Moore and No one else.... You don't have anything to say for this assclown so you change the subject

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 09:23 AM

You stated Hyprocisy and investments ...

None bigger than Cheney's con job with the American investor!!

dirty · 03-09-07, 09:26 AM

I stated His Hypocrisy is Legendary...HIS being the Key Word.... Michael Moore

dirty · 03-09-07, 05:18 PM

Hey Doc...Is Michael Moore a Hypocritical Bastard for Bashing the Right, Oil, Haliburton, etc... then getting rich off of it ?

This Thread has nothing to do with anyone else... You have still yet to answer the Question...

We made Progress earlier today when you admitted Your main Goal was to hang Cheney, not to end the War or bring Home the Troops.

These little Sessions Reveal a lot about you Doc

Doc Mercer · 03-09-07, 06:03 PM

Lets see ...

Cheney touted how 'great" the American economy is and has his investments tied up on the fact he is betting on the American dollar is gonna crash

dirty · 03-09-07, 06:47 PM

This thread is not about Cheney Doc.... if you want a Cheney Thread STart one

03-09-07, 08:14 AM	#1
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary Michael Moore Owns Halliburton Stock World Net Daily\| November 2 2005 "I don't own a single share of stock!" filmmaker Michael Moore proudly proclaimed. He's right. He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares – including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11." If you want to see Moore's own signed Schedule D declaring his capital gains and losses where his stock ownership is listed, it's emblazoned on the cover of Peter Schweizer's new book, "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy." And it's just one of the startling revelations by Schweizer, famous for his previous works, "Reagan's War" and "The Bushes." Other examples: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who proclaims her support for unions, yet the luxury resort, the vineyard and the restaurants she partly owns are strictly non-union. While she advocates tough new laws enforcing environmental regulations on the private sector, the exclusive country club she partly owns failed to comply with existing environmental regulations for the past eight years – including a failure to protect endangered species. Noam Chomsky has made a reputation for calling America a police state and branding the Pentagon "the most hideous institution on earth," yet his entire academic career, writes Schweizer, has been subsidized by the U.S. military. Barbra Streisand is another proponent of environmentalism, yet she drives an SUV, lives in a mansion and has a $22,000 annual water bill. In the past, she has driven to appointments in Beverly Hills in a motor home because of her aversion to using public bathrooms. Ralph Nader plays the role of the citizen avenger – the populist uninterested in wealth and materialism, pretending to live in a modest apartment. In fact, he lives in fancy homes registered in the names of his siblings. This is not just a book of "gotcha" journalism, explains Schweizer. He says the dozens and dozens of examples of "liberal hypocrisy" he cites in his book "are of central importance in evaluating the validity and usefulness of liberal ideas." "Using IRS records, court depositions, news reports, financial disclosures and their own statements, I sought to answer a particular question: Do these liberal leaders and activists practice what they preach?" he writes. "What I found was a stunning record of open and shameless hypocrisy. Those who champion the cause of organized labor had developed various methods to avoid paying union wages or shunned unions altogether. "Those who believe that the rich need to pay more in taxes proved especially adept at avoiding taxes themselves. Critics of capitalism and corporate enterprise frequently invested in the very companies they denounced. Those who espouse strict environmental regulations worked vigorously to sidestep them when it came to their own businesses and properties. Those who advocate steep inheritance taxes to promote fairer income distribution hid their investments in trusts or exotic overseas locales to reduce their own tax liability. Those who are strong proponents of affirmative action rarely practiced it themselves, and some had abysmal records when it came to hiring minorities. Those who proclaim themselves champions of civil liberties when it comes to criminal or terrorist cases went to extraordinary lengths to curtail the civil liberties of others when they felt threatened or just inconvenienced. Advocates of gun control had no problem making sure that an arsenal of weapons was available to protect them from dangerous criminals." Michael Moore Owns Halliburton Stock

03-09-07, 08:18 AM	#3
The Devil EOG Dedicated Join Date: Dec 19, 2005 Location: STATEN ISLAND NY Posts: 20,982	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary DIRTY, GUESS WHERE HE GETS HIS CASH???? FROM THOSE UNBLINKING LEFT WINGERS THAT BUY INTO HIS CRAP........ MOORE MAKES MORE ON HIS FILMS THAN ALEX JONES COULD EVER MAKE ON HIS TSHIRT SALES..........

03-09-07, 08:18 AM	#4
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary SPeaking of Halliburton ... How about the billions they bilked this country for out of Iraq while ex Halliburton CEO Cheney was still on the payroll???

03-09-07, 08:30 AM	#5
The Devil EOG Dedicated Join Date: Dec 19, 2005 Location: STATEN ISLAND NY Posts: 20,982	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary HOW COULD A MAN SO MORALLY PERFECT LIKE MICHAEL MOORE BUY THEIR STOCK IF THAT WAS TRUE????

03-09-07, 08:31 AM	#6
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary How could a MAN OF GOD like Bush use lies to invade illegally a Muslim country and kill 600,000 innocent Iraqis???

03-09-07, 08:33 AM	#8
The Devil EOG Dedicated Join Date: Dec 19, 2005 Location: STATEN ISLAND NY Posts: 20,982	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT CHANGE THE SUBJECT....HE KNOWS HEAD TO HEAD HE WOULD GET BATTERED IN A DEBATE........I LOVE WATCHING HIM DO THIS.......I JUST SIT BACK AND LAUGH............HE IS SO PREDICTABLE, I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY CARDS AGAINST HIM.....

03-09-07, 08:37 AM	#9
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary I am addressing a serious issue .... I DONT GIVE A SHIT AND NO ONE ELSE DOES ABOUT MOORE's FINANCIAL HOLDINGS .... HE AINT THE PRESIDENT OR VP OF THIS COUNTRY Dirty .....BY THE WAY ..... HOW IS THAT THREAD WHERE YOU CLAIMED I STATED 270,000,000 AMERICANS COMING?? FOR "CLAIMING NOT TO BE A RIGHTIE" YOU SUCK MORE GOP ASS THAN ANYONE ON THIS BOARD

03-09-07, 08:38 AM	#10
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary I told you I answered you Doc... And this thread is not about Bush or Cheney... Not everything in this world is about them....

03-09-07, 08:42 AM	#11
The Devil EOG Dedicated Join Date: Dec 19, 2005 Location: STATEN ISLAND NY Posts: 20,982	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary I KNOW DOC, MICHAEL MOORE IS BARELY SURVIVING ALSO, JUST LIKE ALEX JONES.................

03-09-07, 08:44 AM	#13
The Devil EOG Dedicated Join Date: Dec 19, 2005 Location: STATEN ISLAND NY Posts: 20,982	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary DOC, COME ON YOU'RE A BIG BOY.......HOW COME YOU BROUGHT UP ALL THE STOCKS BUSH'S COUSINS OWN????

03-09-07, 08:45 AM	#14
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary This has nothing to do with Cheney... and all to do with the Hypocrisy of the Left wing Socialist heroes that you tout 24/7 that don't even believe what the hell they are preaching

03-09-07, 08:48 AM	#16
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary Bullshit .... How much damage has Moore done with Halliburton to this country financially?? The Right and their typical bullshit is laughable at best "Kenny Boy" Lay ...come on down!!

03-09-07, 08:51 AM	#17
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary What does this have to do with Ken Lay Doc... again...you can't stay on Topic

03-09-07, 09:01 AM	#18
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary I can stay on topic .... how many folks did Lay fuck financially by lying just like Cheney has done??? Look at where the MFer is investing!! Lets talk about "Hyprocrisy" Lets check out Cheneys investmens while he has touted the GREAT AMERICAN ECONOMY UNDER BUSH: $10 million to $25 million (precise amounts weren't disclosed) of Cheney money residing in a fund that buys mostly high-quality foreign bonds and has limited exposure to dollar assets. That means the vice president is betting on a further decline in the value of the dollar against other currencies, a sorry situation directly related to our huge trade deficit and our debt-ridden federal budget The Cheneys appear to be profiting from a decline in the United States' economic standing, a situation the vice president has helped to create.

03-09-07, 09:05 AM	#20
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary Doc...Last I checked before you started talking about someone else, this thread was about Michael Moore and No one else.... You don't have anything to say for this assclown so you change the subject

03-09-07, 09:23 AM	#21
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary You stated Hyprocisy and investments ... None bigger than Cheney's con job with the American investor!!

03-09-07, 09:26 AM	#22
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary I stated His Hypocrisy is Legendary...HIS being the Key Word.... Michael Moore

03-09-07, 05:18 PM	#23
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary Hey Doc...Is Michael Moore a Hypocritical Bastard for Bashing the Right, Oil, Haliburton, etc... then getting rich off of it ? This Thread has nothing to do with anyone else... You have still yet to answer the Question... We made Progress earlier today when you admitted Your main Goal was to hang Cheney, not to end the War or bring Home the Troops. These little Sessions Reveal a lot about you Doc

03-09-07, 06:03 PM	#24
Doc Mercer EOG Dedicated Join Date: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 48,468	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary Lets see ... Cheney touted how 'great" the American economy is and has his investments tied up on the fact he is betting on the American dollar is gonna crash

03-09-07, 06:47 PM	#25
dirty EOG Consigliere' Join Date: Aug 26, 2005 Location: Jawja Posts: 62,810	Re: Michael Moore Owns Halliburton, Boeing, Sonoco...His Hypocrisy is Legendary This thread is not about Cheney Doc.... if you want a Cheney Thread STart one

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