JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT
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  1. #1
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    Arrow JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    written June 22, 2009

    First off, special thanks to the following people who I reached out to for help in resolving this dispute:

    1: JIMMYMAC
    2: ODDSMAKER
    3: Anthony Stewart
    4: The OSGA, specifically Jim
    5: Stephen
    6: Jay C
    7: SBR/The General

    Overview:

    A player named JIMMYMAC was profiled carefully by Oddsmaker to have met their criteria to receive an extremely generous bonus in the hopes that he would eventually deposit real money with their sports book.

    Oddsmaker only sends this offer out to a very limited number of players via email and it is called a VIP BONUS. Specifically, the recipient is offered a 500 dollar FREE PLAY without having to make a deposit. There are no strings attached except to meet a rollover requirement and wait 30 days before cashing out..

    Given that this is a very dangerous offer that can be costly, many people try to abuse it. The sports book is able to detect fraud or abuse by requesting the player to call a specific 800 phone number and by asking the player to request to talk to an "Anthony Stewart."

    What followed has been fairly well established on the forums and also by SBR/The General's report...

    1: The player rolled the $500 dollar free play into $8400 dollars.

    2. The player DELIBERATELY tried to ABUSE the BONUS that was meant exclusively for him by sharing it with his Father... I use the word "deliberate" because he meticulously went through the plan of signing up online an additional VIP account using his Father. Then, after the account was established, neither the player nor his Father tried calling Antony Stewart or the 800 number that was provided on the email....

    For if they had used the traceable number provided on the original email or the name that was required, they knew they'd be caught. Also I believe had they done this with honest intentions, they would have called Anthony directly to ask for his approval ...

    Rather, they tried to get an extra 500 dollar FREE PLAY by calling another toll free customer support number in the hopes that the clerk wouldn't know the difference.

    3. The player got caught. At first he lied to Oddsmaker about his foiled attempt to abuse the bonus that was meant only for him, but the truth eventually came to light... Oddsmaker has proof to back all of this by the additional online application and tapes. Additionally, SBR (The General) also agreed with this finding in his report.

    Conclusion:

    Most sports books have rules and regulations that are clearly posted on their website. Oddsmaker is no exception. What I find disturbing is that the majority of players don't bother reading the rules and regulations before getting involved with a sports book.

    For example, many sports books have a very controversial rule that I don't agree with so I avoid these books. It's called the "WISEGUY RULE" which virtually gives them a license to steal if they believe you are in collusion with one or more other players.

    Now back to ODDSMAKER....

    If Oddsmaker doesn't have a rule on their web site that addresses this scenario, then the sports book cannot take away a player's winnings, period...

    Simply because he lied, or he was rude or he attacked them on posting forums are not grounds to take way a player's hard earned winnings...

    But what about Bonus Abuse?

    Let's review the terms and conditions that Oddsmaker does have listed on their website quite clearly...

    http://www.oddsmaker.com/terms.php

    If you scroll to the bottom and look under the sub header titled "BONUS ABUSE," I believe they have 10 paragraphs of terms and conditions.

    The one I find paramount to this case can be found in paragraph #4, second sentence...

    Professional players or PLAYERS CONSIDERED TO BE ABUSING THE BONUS SYSTEM BY ANY MEANS may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions, at the discretion of OddsMaker.com management.

    Like it or not, the above sentence which is clearly found under their rules, applies here. The player was indeed "considered to be abusing the bonus system," even though he got caught doing so. If a robber gets caught trying to rob a bank but gets caught in the act, he is still guilty of ROBBERY...

    It's not at all about whether someone likes the rule...

    But rules, just like laws are enforceable...

    I personally think that jay walking and smoking pot are silly laws, but try telling that to a Judge...

    Therefore, I rule in favor of ODDSMAKER....

    They have the rules to back them up.

    THE SHRINK

  2. #2

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    So, as long as you have a rule stated we have the right to steal from the player, then it is alright for the book to steal from the player. Just as long as they are following their OWN rules.

  3. #3

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    oh boy.

    so the book only follows their rules when a player wins money from them???

  4. #4
    EOG FOUNDER THE SHRINK's Avatar
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    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShavenCoinpurse View Post

    So, as long as you have a rule stated we have the right to steal from the player, then it is alright for the book to steal from the player. Just as long as they are following their OWN rules.
    Unfortunately, that is correct...

    If you don't like the rules, no one is forcing you to play there...

    IMHO, it is always in your best interest to READ THE RULES before doing business with these type of places...

    THE SHRINK

  5. #5

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT


  6. #6

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    SHRINK...were you one of the "12 Angry Men?"

    Seriously, good decision...sadly with all the free plays and bonus's given out by books, this won't be the end of it....

  7. #7

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShavenCoinpurse View Post
    So, as long as you have a rule stated we have the right to steal from the player, then it is alright for the book to steal from the player. Just as long as they are following their OWN rules.

    Would you sign or place money in an investment, mortgage or other loan agreement without reading and/or understanding the terms and conditions?

  8. #8

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    Would you sign or place money in an investment, mortgage or other loan agreement without reading and/or understanding the terms and conditions?
    Are you fucking serious? First of all, I would never play there. Second, read the rule. It is as vague as possible. It basically says if we suspect you of smethign we can do anything we want. We would describe it in the rules, but we will phrase it to be anything we possibly want it to be and you have no rights.

    Oddsmaker is shit.

  9. #9

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Not sure why everyone is so 100% with Jimmy.

    Obviously the guy was gonna try to fuck the book with the extra bonus. He got caught and this is what happens.

  10. #10

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Here comes the drama...

  11. #11

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Without a doubt you made the right decision..........

  12. #12

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShavenCoinpurse View Post
    Are you fucking serious? First of all, I would never play there. Second, read the rule. It is as vague as possible. It basically says if we suspect you of smethign we can do anything we want. We would describe it in the rules, but we will phrase it to be anything we possibly want it to be and you have no rights.

    Oddsmaker is shit.
    Any which way you look at it, the BOOK is 100% right in this decrepecy......

  13. #13

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShavenCoinpurse View Post
    Are you fucking serious? First of all, I would never play there. Secnd, read the rule. It is as vague as possible. It basically says if we suspect yu of smethign we can do anything we want. We would describe it in the rules, but we will phrase it to be anything we possibly want it to be and you have no rights.

    Oddsmaker is shit.
    Yes I am serious.

    It is a fairly simple question.

    Would you or would you not sign or place money in an investment, mortgage or other loan agreement without reading and/or understanding the terms and conditions?

  14. #14

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    If a book can do this....

    book: "oh shit this guy just won money. lets go check if he did anything against our rules. if he did we will cofiscate his money."

    Why shouldn't a player be able to do this?

    player: "oh shit i just lost all my money on these last few deposits I made. I just keep depositing, getting bonuses, and keep losing. I am such a sucker for the bonus. but let me check to see if i did anything against their rules. if i did something against the rules the book should not have accepted my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 100th, 1000th deposit. i should get all those deposits back."

  15. #15
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    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by Timetopay View Post

    Not sure why everyone is so 100% with Jimmy.

    Obviously the guy was gonna try to fuck the book with the extra bonus. He got caught and this is what happens.


    Players have no idea how often these bonuses are passed around in an attempt to take advantage of sports books...

    Can you imagine how long a bookmaker would stay in business if they didn't catch the THOUSANDS of people who try and abuse generous offers?

    And heaven forbid if they try to set an example by enforcing a rule that they are perfectly within their right to do so!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow View Post

    Without a doubt you made the right decision..........
    Coming from you, that means a lot...

    Thank you...

    THE SHRINK

  16. #16

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by MadCapper View Post
    oh boy.

    so the book only follows their rules when a player wins money from them???

  17. #17

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    Yes I am serious.

    It is a fairly simple question.

    Would you or would you not sign or place money in an investment, mortgage or other loan agreement without reading and/or understanding the terms and conditions?
    So, you are basically saying NOBODY should play at oddsmaker because there rules are vague.

  18. #18

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Why is everyone saying the rule is vague. Did the bonus offer specifiy it was for only Jimmy to use?

    If it did there is absolutely nothing vague

  19. #19

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShavenCoinpurse View Post
    So, you are basically saying NOBODY should play at oddsmaker because there rules are vague.
    Nope, please don't put words in my mouth.

    What I am saying is, don't take a bonus unless you read the terms and conditions and understand them just as most people wouldn't sign a loan, make an investment, etc without knowing the terms, conditions, and fees attached.

    Then, if you do take the bonus, don't abuse it.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Crooks 1
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  21. #21

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    The player's dad tried to get the same offer and was denyed. No plays were made on this new account. Correct. How does a player forwarding an email to someone else and them asking to get the same bonus constitute bonus abuse? No plays were made and the account not granted the bonus. And this gives Oddsmaker the right to keep $8400 of the player's money which was won fair and square?

    So, if I have a balance of say $5000 at a book. And I deposit more and try to get a bonus I don't deserve and they say NO. Does that give them the right t also close my acct and keep my $5000?

    I can see Oddsmakers side if the money was won on the new acct that didn't deserve the bonus. Not in this case.

  22. #22

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Can someone post the exact email that was sent?

    Blondie you good with the technology stuff. Post the thing for a fair look to everyone

  23. #23
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    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymac24 View Post

    I just read the final verdict and have to say i am not surprised but still disappointed. What was a simple thing got blown out of proportion. My Dad and I never colluded to try and get a second bonus period. I forwarded him the email and he is not sharp enough to do what the shrink thinks he did. The reason he called the non vip number was because he opened his account and saw the number on the main page and called it not knowing there was a difference between vip or non vip,etc. Its a joke that people think we had this master plan to get another 500.

    I told him about my bonus and he thought oddsmaker was looking for new customers and maybe they would give him that bonus or another one. I would never think they would be stupid enough to give him my same bonus thinking it was me. It is 2009 and you would think a book would have the technology to track their bonus offers and when one is used the system erases that code,etc.... My dad was looking for his own bonus not knowing that my offer was specific to me and that they would not offer anything to anyone else. I have referred friends to other books in the past and received a bonus for that.

    Bottom line is this is an excuse to not pay me. in my opinion it is about ego and stubborness. the guy i argued with is high up at the book and made sure they did not give in.

    Its a shame the shrink sided with oddsmaker but i can understand his conflict of interest and the tough position he was in.

    What i have told is the entire truth. Because of others actions the book seems paranoid that everyone is trying to screw them over and manipulate their bonuses. anyone who knew me and my dad would laugh at the notion we would do that.

    I appreciate the help either way.

    Jimmy Mac

    JIMMYMAC,

    I copied your initial response to this thread too so I dont have to go back and forth...

    I feel your disappointment . U just don't know how close I was to reaching a very favorable compromise in light of all that happened...

    Unfortunately, something we discussed on the phone made that option go away...

    But even The General stated:

    1. The player had instructed his father to open a separate account and get the same promotion. The father (or whomever) attempted to do so, but was caught and no money was ever played from a second account.

    I am so sorry I wasn't able to do more for you. My heart does go out to you..

    I gave it my best shot all weekend and last week as you know...

    THE SHRINK

  24. #24

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    Nope, please don't put words in my mouth.

    What I am saying is, don't take a bonus unless you read the terms and conditions and understand them just as most people wouldn't sign a loan, make an investment, etc without knowing the terms, conditions, and fees attached.

    Then, if you do take the bonus, don't abuse it.

    Why is assumed the player abused it? He sent the email to his father. His father tried to get the bonus and was denyed. There were never any plays made on a bonus that wasn't deserved. Why is it not okay to ask about a bonus for a new player? Much different scenario had the bonus been granted and the money won on this new players acct which didn't deserve the bonus.

  25. #25

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by THE SHRINK View Post
    JIMMYMAC,

    I feel your disappointment and I saw your response in another thread. U just don't know how close I was to reaching a very favorable compromise in light of all that happened...

    Unfortunately, something we discussed on the phone made that option go away...

    But even The General stated:

    1. The player had instructed his father to open a separate account and get the same promotion. The father (or whomever) attempted to do so, but was caught and no money was ever played from a second account.

    I am so sorry i wasn't able to do more for you. My heart does go out to you..

    I gave it my best shot all weekend and last week as you know...

    THE SHRINK
    SHRINK- What about that is illegal? You can't try to recommend a new player and ask for a bonus from a referred player? You said that the bonus was denyed. Why does that give them the right to steal the $8400 from the acct that won fair and square?

  26. #26

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Post from JimmyMac:

    "And one other interesting point in this whole case is that my dad opened an account and called the main number on saturday. I did not hear from them that i broke a rule until thursday AFTER i got my account up to 8400. Oddsmaker is as i said before a scam book. stay away."


    Explain that one?

  27. #27

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShavenCoinpurse View Post
    The player's dad tried to get the same offer and was denyed. No plays were made on this new account. Correct. How does a player forwarding an email to someone else and them asking to get the same bonus constitute bonus abuse? No plays were made and the account not granted the bonus. And this gives Oddsmaker the right to keep $8400 of the player's money which was won fair and square?

    So, if I have a balance of say $5000 at a book. And I deposit more and try to get a bonus I don't deserve and they say NO. Does that give them the right t also close my acct and keep my $5000?

    I can see Oddsmakers side if the money was won on the new acct that didn't deserve the bonus. Not in this case.
    BINGO !

    Shrink, that's a pretty weak-assed decision on your part ... I find it hard to believe that Jay C supports you in this recommendation ... would love to hear his take on the matter.

    Here's what you should do ... 2 things ...

    1. Tell your shit book to pay the man his money.

    2. Tell this shit book, and every other shit book, to stop giving out these idiotic no-deposit free plays. Has any book in the history of offshore sports betting EVER got a legitimate ongoing, paying customer from these stupid promos ?

    All the book gets from these free give-aways are (1) the Americans/Canadians who don't have a pot to piss in, who hope they can turn the free money into real money, (2) the advantage players who, if they do eventually sign up with the book, will likely beat the book long-term, anyway, and (3) 73,567 Eastern European accounts.

  28. #28

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by THE SHRINK View Post
    JIMMYMAC,

    I feel your disappointment and I saw your response in another thread. U just don't know how close I was to reaching a very favorable compromise in light of all that happened...

    Unfortunately, something we discussed on the phone made that option go away...

    But even The General stated:

    1. The player had instructed his father to open a separate account and get the same promotion. The father (or whomever) attempted to do so, but was caught and no money was ever played from a second account.

    I am so sorry I wasn't able to do more for you. My heart does go out to you..

    I gave it my best shot all weekend and last week as you know...

    THE SHRINK


    So you are saying you did not have a verdict at all and if you did you won't post it! You tried and failed so then agreed with the book.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Reading the email to the player (posted at sbr), nowhere does it state the player MUST call the VIP host for this offer. It states to sign up at oddsmaker.com and e-mail to receive the 500 bonus.

    It doesn't specify this offer is ony valid for the receipient (however clear this
    may seem, it's still a vagary). vagueness (sp) should always favor the player.

    Is it possible the player thought this was open to all players who never deposited..in my opin yes. However as mentioned the way the player aired his complaint and sought to "blackmail" oddsmaker with bad pub on forums makes this decision the right one. Simply put the book mgmt has final say on bonus'. If this involved deposited funds I would say he's owed. It doesn't and he sought to pressure oddsmaker into paying. Good call on a difficult decision.

  30. #30

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
    Any which way you look at it, the BOOK is 100% right in this decrepecy......
    Rainbow, you are dumber than a bag of hammers.

    How's your buddy Lenny ? Still a stand-up guy ? Still going to pay everyone ? I hope he "ain't gonna' mule no one".

  31. #31

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    I am telling you guys I NEVER had the intention of screwing the book and getting another bonus for my dad unless they wanted to do it. We are naive and thought they were a small book looking for new customers and would give my dad the same bonus or maybe a smaller one. I specifically remember saying to my dad maybe they wont give you my deal but something smaller. we never tried to circumvent the system. thats a bunch of bs. My dad is a 62 yr old man that likes to gamble but is not smart enought to do what he is accused of doing. He called the number on the website cuz it was on the site where he opened his account. there was no ill intent at all and that is why i am so frustrated. What we are accused of is not even close to accurate.

  32. #32

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    I dont really think it is a weak decision at all. Seems like some are missing the point. If I am given a free play of this size (which to me is very large without a deposit) and my father was interested in the same thing, I would have my father contact my contact at that book.

    Not only does it show my contact I am spreading the word of generous offers by that book, but I am trying to give them buisness as well.

    I always feel you get more with a phone call then an email, its more personable and sometimes you get more accomplished. I think if Jimmys father called the book and explained he was Jimmys son, maybe they would have given him some type of answer of if he was entitled or not rather than what result is going on now. JMO.

  33. #33

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    Quote Originally Posted by ballwonder View Post
    I dont really think it is a weak decision at all.
    I suspect all the other unpaid mods agree with you .. and I'm certain all the paid mods do.

  34. #34

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    I think that the player should of at least been offered $2500 or so. The other account was never even used.



    My main question is WHY IN THE HELL cant I get this offer????????????

  35. #35

    Default Re: JIMMYMAC VS. ODDSMAKER DISPUTE: THE VERDICT

    The WVU trickle down effect....WVU ruined it for everyone....

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