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Thread: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

  1. #36
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    RECAP/SUMMARY

    More or less as we roll over to a new page, I’ll do one of these recaps/summaries of what we know about 2017 Las Vegas football handicapping contests at this point.

    Not covering the “straight up” contests where players just pick all the games with no spread. (Not saying those are easy to win as against the hordes entered, just not covering them here).

    As far as I know, proxies are permitted on all of these contest offerings, either explicitly or by the absence of an explicit prohibition. Nevada gaming regulators have no issues with anyone, including out-of-staters, using proxies to put in contest selections.

    So far, we’re anticipating the following football handicapping contests:

    ● The Westgate SuperContest and – new for 2017 – SuperContest Gold, a high end season-long contest within a contest.

    The regular SuperContest is $1500 an entry, with a maximum two entries per contestant (determined by social security #).

    Contestants pick 5 NFL sides against contest lines posted online on Wednesday afternoons. Selections must be made by 11AM PT on Saturday mornings unless the contestant is using an earlier game (typically ThNF) on a card, in which case all five selections must go in together at the same time before the earlier game kick.

    The regular contest pays down 50 places, with ties. First prize – which is subject to a tiebreaker rule – in 2016 paid $895,482.00.

    Under Rule 16, “[i]n the event of a first place tie, the first place prize winner will be determined based on the contestant that accumulated the most contest points
    during the final three (3) weeks of the regular season.” If that doesn’t break the tie, they go back to Week 14 and so on until they break the tie. If they go all the way back to Week 1 without breaking the tie, they chop the first place money.

    There are three bonuses for partial season mini-contests within the overall contest. Three separate 15K bonuses are paid to: (a) the leader(s) after 4 weeks; (b) the leader(s) after 8 weeks; and (c) the winner(s) of a final mini-contest the final three weeks of the season. Players must enter the regular SuperContest by an early bird entry bird deadline in early September to qualify for the final mini-contest. All three of the separate 15K bonuses are aggregate prizes that are split in case of a tie within each category. E.g., if there’s a tie after 4 weeks, they chop that 15K bonus.

    The SuperContest Gold season-long contest within a contest has a $5,000 entry fee for a single winner-takes-all jackpot. The winner is determined by the same first-place tiebreaker rule described above. Players otherwise make their 5 NFL side plays as described above for the regular SuperContest. The contests appear to run separately, such that a player can use a different alias and different selections in the two contests.

    There is an 8% rake on the regular SuperContest (grumble, grumble). The SuperContest Gold is 100% payback – one winner walks away with the entirety of the $5,000 SuperContest Gold entry fees in that side pot.

    The SuperBook starts taking entries Saturday, July 1, 2017.

    The early bird entry deadline (qualifies for the mini-contest) is at 4:00 PM PT on Labor Day, September 4, 2017. The final entry deadline is at 11AM PT on Saturday, September 9, 2017, which also is the selection deadline for entries for Week 1 (unless the contestant is using the ThNF game, in which case all 5 picks are due before the ThNF kickoff).

    Links to the full rules for both contests can be found here:

    https://www.westgatedestinations.com...o/supercontest

    (The regular contest used to be the Hilton SuperContest, but that’s been ages and ages ago. The property has changed hands a gajillion – plus or minus five percent – times since then. People, myself included, still slip up and refer to it as “the Hilton contest.”)


    ● The Golden Nugget (and Las Vegas Sportsline) Friday Football Showdown

    $2000 per entry. Maximum one entry. 100% payback.

    Contestants initially make 7 selections (and later 9 selections mid-season) from among NFL sides and totals and CFB sides only from contest sheets posted online at midday PT on Thursdays. Selections are due by 2PM PT on Fridays. (CFB totals used to be included, but the contest is dropping those in 2017 to cut down on stale lines play.)

    The contest is bifurcated into two basic phases. In the first phase, all contestants participate in an effort to make the cut for the second phase. In that second phase, the players are seeded in a series of head-to-head matches (broadcast live on the Las Vegas Sportsline radio show) leading to a winner.

    It’s easier to just provide a link to the contest page as to the rather involved specifics of how all that works and as to the prize structure. “It’s complicated,” but in a good way. At present, the link is to the 2016 description. I’ll update when the 2017 description is available. They’ve been doing fairly good tweaks each year to improve the contest structure and procedures.

    https://www.thelasvegassportsline.com/friday-contest


    ● William Hill College Pick’Em Football Contest

    $500 per entry. In 2016, a maximum three entries were allowed. According to reporting by proxy site footballcontest.com, this will be raised to a four-entry maximum for 2017. Guaranteed 100% or better payback.

    Contestants select 7 CFB sides against approximately 25 contest lines posted online each week for a total of 10 weeks.

    In 2016, a minimum guaranteed payout of $25,000 was paid out 70-20-10% to the top three finishers. According to footballcontest.com, the guaranteed payout will be raised to $75,000 for 2017 and will be paid out to the top ten finishers. A $25,000 bonus is awarded to the grand prize winner if they pick 49 or more winners.

    Will follow with entry deadlines, etc. and a link once Will Hill posts the info for the 2017 season.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    I'm currently getting a 404 error when I try to pull up the SuperContest Gold contest rules from the Westgate site.

    But Vegas Matty sent out a twitter pic with the first half of the Gold rules, and I was comfortable enough based on what I read there to do the above summary. They're basically tracking the regular SuperContest rules in the Gold rules, and entries in the two contests run separately from one another.

    EOG pages roll over at the 36th post, so it was more or less time to run with the summary as the next post if possible.

    I'll monitor for an accessible copy of the Gold rules and follow up as necessary.
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    CORRECTION: No tiebreaker rule for the SuperContest Gold, just a simple chop at the top if there's a tie at the end.

    "In the end, there can be only one." Unless there's a tie.

    I'll post a corrected recap/summary.

    Assumptions, assumptions.

    You can get hard copies of the rules at the SuperBook window already, which is what I did while I was over there a few minutes back keeping my square cred intact.
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    CORRECTED RECAP/SUMMARY

    More or less as we rollover to a new page, I’ll do one of these recaps/summaries of what we know about 2017 Las Vegas football handicapping contests at this point.

    Not covering the “straight up” contests where players just pick all the games with no spread. (Not saying those are easy to win as against the hordes entered, just not covering them here).

    As far as I know, proxies are permitted on all of these contest offerings, either explicitly or by the absence of an explicit prohibition. Nevada gaming regulators have no issues with anyone, including out-of-staters, using proxies to put in contest selections.

    So far, we’re anticipating the following football handicapping contests:

    ● The Westgate SuperContest and – new for 2017 – SuperContest Gold, a high end season-long contest within a contest.

    The regular SuperContest is $1500 an entry, with a maximum two entries per contestant (determined by social security #).

    Contestants pick 5 NFL sides against contest lines posted online on Wednesday afternoons. Selections must be made by 11AM PT on Saturday mornings unless the contestant is using an earlier game (typically ThNF) on a card, in which case all five selections must go in together at the same time before the earlier game kick.

    The regular contest pays down 50 places, with ties. First prize – which is subject to a tiebreaker rule – in 2016 paid $895,482.00.

    Under Rule 16, “[i]n the event of a first place tie, the first place prize winner will be determined based on the contestant that accumulated the most contest points during the final three (3) weeks of the regular season.” If that doesn’t break the tie, they go back to Week 14 and so on until they break the tie. If they go all the way back to Week 1 without breaking the tie, they chop the first place money.

    There are three bonuses for partial season mini-contests within the overall contest. Three separate 15K bonuses are paid to: (a) the leader(s) after 4 weeks; (b) the leader(s) after 8 weeks; and (c) the winner(s) of a final mini-contest the final three weeks of the season. Players must enter the regular SuperContest by an early bird entry bird deadline in early September to qualify for the final mini-contest. All three of the separate 15K bonuses are aggregate prizes that are split in case of a tie within each category. E.g., if there’s a tie after 4 weeks, they chop that 15K bonus.

    The SuperContest Gold season-long contest within a contest has a $5,000 entry fee for a single winner-takes-all jackpot. If there’s a tie for first place at the end, the winners split the pot. Players otherwise make their 5 NFL side plays as described above for the regular SuperContest. The contests appear to run separately, such that it appears that a player can use a different alias and make different selections in the two contests.

    There is an 8% rake on the regular SuperContest (grumble, grumble). The SuperContest Gold is 100% payback – one winner walks away with the entirety of the $5,000 SuperContest Gold entry fees in that side pot.

    The SuperBook starts taking entries Saturday, July 1, 2017.

    The early bird entry deadline (qualifies for the mini-contest) is t 4:00 PM PT on Labor Day, September 4, 2017. The final entry deadline is at 11AM PT on Saturday, September 9, 2017, which also is the selection deadline for entries for Week 1 (unless the contestant is using the ThNF game, in which case all 5 picks are due before the ThNF kickoff).

    Links to the full rules for both contests can be found here:

    https://www.westgatedestinations.com...o/supercontest

    (The regular contest used to be the Hilton SuperContest, but that’s been ages and ages ago. The property has changed hands a gajillion – plus or minus five percent – times since then. People, myself included, still slip up and refer to it as “the Hilton contest.”)


    ● The Golden Nugget (and Las Vegas Sportsline) Friday Football Showdown

    $2000 per entry. Maximum one entry. 100% payback.

    Contestants initially make 7 selections (and later 9 selections mid-season) from among NFL sides and totals and CFB sides only from contest sheets posted online at midday PT on Thursdays. Selections are due by 2PM PT on Fridays. (CFB totals used to be included, but the contest is dropping those in 2017 to cut down on stale lines play.)

    The contest is bifurcated into two basic phases. In the first phase, all contestants participate in an effort to make the cut for the second phase. In that second phase, the players are seeded in a series of head-to-head matches (broadcast live on the Las Vegas Sportsline radio show) leading to a winner.

    It’s easier to just provide a link to the contest page as to the rather involved specifics of how all that works and as to the prize structure. “It’s complicated,” but in a good way. At present, the link is to the 2016 description. I’ll update when the 2017 description is available. They’ve been doing fairly good tweaks each year to improve the contest structure and procedures.

    https://www.thelasvegassportsline.com/friday-contest


    ● William Hill College Pick’Em Football Contest

    $500 per entry. In 2016, a maximum three entries were allowed. According to reporting by proxy site footballcontest.com, this will be raised to a four-entry maximum for 2017. Guaranteed 100% or better payback.

    Contestants select 7 CFB sides against approximately 25 contest lines posted online each week for a total of 10 weeks.

    In 2016, a minimum guaranteed payout of $25,000 was paid out 70-20-10% to the top three finishers. According to footballcontest.com, the guaranteed payout will be raised to $75,000 for 2017 and will be paid out to the top ten finishers. A $25,000 bonus is awarded to the grand prize winner if they pick 49 or more winners.

    Will follow with entry deadlines, etc. and a link once Will Hill posts the info for the 2017 season.
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    This is the promo on SuperContest Weekend that they put out with the rules:


    "Join us August 17 - 19 in the SuperBook as we host Vegas Stats Information Network (VSiN) and Brent Musburger “My Guys in the Desert” show heard on SiriusXM Ch. 204. Brent and his team will be previewing the entire football season and we will raffle off SuperContest entries on August 19.

    Earn raffle tickets starting July 1 for the “SuperContest Raffle”. Our “Super Golf” outing with a reception afterwards will take place on Saturday, August 19th at the legendary Las Vegas Country Club.

    The SuperBook will be giving away 6 FREE SuperContest entries during this weekend.

    ****Get all the details in the SuperBook or WestgateVegas.com****"


    -- -- --

    Should be interesting with Musburger, et al., there. Raising the contests' and the event's profile and exposure another notch, as that ties in to Musburger's national radio shows.
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  6. #41

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Thanks for the update, I'll be around again if someone is needing a proxy for any of the contests this year

  7. #42
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Signups start for the 2017 SuperContest and SuperContest Gold in about 10 minutes.

    Current entry count:

    SuperContest 0
    S/C Gold 0
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    2017 William Hill College PicK'em Official Rules (couldn't find these on the Will Hill site yet or would have linked to there):

    http://www.footballcontest.com/conte...otball-pickem/
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  9. #44
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    I would say that Brent is 100% behind the marketing of the SuperContest this year:

    Jay Kornegay Retweeted VSiN‏ @VSiNLive 1h1 hour ago

    .@LVSuperBook #SuperContest kicks off with @VSiNLive lead host @BrentMusburger as entrant No. 1. https://www.vsin.com/musburger/westgate/ …
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    SuperContest Proxy‏ @FootballContest 7m7 minutes ago

    #SuperContest entries going strong on first day of sign-ups at @LVSuperBook. Up to 14 overall already . . . .

    Probably too soon for NBC News to call it just yet.
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    And we have a confirmed SuperContest Gold signup (alias "Insufferable"), per SuperContest Proxy, bringing that count to:


    1


    "The drama."
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  12. #47

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    I'll be heading to LV in August with one SC gold entry, one regular SC entry, 1 Nugget, and a couple WH college entries.

  13. #48

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Nice to see the WH College Contest Contest pay more than 3 spots, It's a much better prize in my opinion now and not as top heavy. What do you think about the different contest prize structures and do you have a favorite contest? Have a great football season WW!!

  14. #49

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Great info in this thread. Thank you for putting it together Squarepants

  15. #50
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Appreciate the nod, rico1.

    Very interested in seeing how many entries the new SuperContest Gold picks up.

    Have seen/heard some balking at the Highlander rule ("there can be only one"), but talked to someone today who likes that format and is signing up.
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    VegasMatty‏ @Vegas_Matty 15m15 minutes ago#SuperContest sign-ups still going strong on #4thofJuly at @LVSuperBook, up to 52 & on record pace. . . . .
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    I'm definitely signing up for SuperContest Gold. I think it will take a year before
    it catches on and approaches 100 entries with the winner-take-all aspect being the
    biggest initial hurdle. As long as the 100% payback remains it should grow.
    Let's hope it isn't the equivalent of an introductory offer.

    Wrote this a couple weeks ago. As with any contest the pre-season talk centers
    mostly on why pure handicappers have a problem with the format.

    https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...ercontest-gold

  18. #53
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Thanks for the insights, Voodoo.

    Looks like we're up to 65 entries on the main contest, per an @FootballContest tweet from a half hour or so back.
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    The LV Sportsline Retweeted Tony Miller‏ @Gollumlv 13h13 hours ago

    The Friday Football Showdown contest @GoldenNuggetLV will be open for registration July 19. NFL/College sides and totals. $2,000 entry.


    -- -- --

    (Contest summary in post #36 at the top of the page.)
    Last edited by Squarepants; 07-06-17 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Have an editorial license.
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  20. #55
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepants View Post
    2017 William Hill College PicK'em Official Rules (couldn't find these on the Will Hill site yet or would have linked to there):

    http://www.footballcontest.com/conte...otball-pickem/
    Link now to the official page for the WH College Pick'em Contest:

    https://www.williamhill.us/collegepickem/

    While I'm there, this is also the link for their Pro Pick'em contest, which I believe is mostly a straight up contest (they do use totals to bring the number of choices up to 15 a week where necessary). As noted previously, I'm not going to attempt to cover those types of contests here.

    https://www.williamhill.us/propickem/
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    If I can get the link in this tweet to work, it goes to a .pdf with the 2017 Golden Nugget Friday Football Showdown rules.

    I'm at work, so I can't delve into them myself right now. But trying to get them out to EOG while they're fairly hot off the virtual presses.

    The LV Sportsline Retweeted Tony Miller‏ @Gollumlv 22h22 hours ago

    http://bit.ly/2tNssMy This is the link to the Friday Football Showdown Contest, rules and new format. @GoldenNuggetLV
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  22. #57

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Interesting bracket for GN. I would like to see them use shade a full point or at least a half point against every lined game.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    SuperContest main contest entries also up to 72, per an @FootballContest tweet from about 23 hours back (long work days intrude on my coverage sometimes).
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    >>Interesting bracket for GN. I would like to see them use shade a full point or
    at least a half point against every lined game.<<

    What does that mean?

    Jets +2.5
    Bills -3.5

    Like that?



  25. #60
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    SuperContest Proxy‏ @FootballContest 1h1 hour ago

    #SuperContest just went over 100 entries at @LVSuperBook. . . . .

    -- -- --

    1971 more to go for a $1M first place prize.
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Ahead of last year's pace so far. Reached 100 by the morning of July 10th last year. The year prior to that, at that point, 46.

    So bodes well so far.
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  27. #62

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Is there a certain number they have to reach to pay beyond the first 50? Is it 2000, 2100? Is the 50 firm no matter how many enter?

  28. #63

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    My understanding is that paying the top 50 is firm.

  29. #64

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    The 50 is firm no matter the number of entries. I signed a few people up tonight, As of late tonight the SUPERCONTEST is on record pace to get 1st MILLION DOLLAR WINNER 117 entries very early is a good number.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Moog66 View Post
    Is there a certain number they have to reach to pay beyond the first 50? Is it 2000, 2100? Is the 50 firm no matter how many enter?
    As the guys said, the money cut stays the same under the rules for the current year, which come out by July 1st now. There is no intraseason adjustment for larger entry numbers.

    The SuperBook has adjusted the money cut twice in the past few years, however, to account for anticipated entry number growth based upon the recent trend.

    From I believe the beginning of the contest in 1989 or so through 2012 (745 entries), the money cut stayed at 20 places (with ties potentially expanding the number paid at all of these cutoffs).

    For 2013 (which which wound up having 1034 entries) and 2014 (1402 entries ultimately), the SuperBook moved the cut out to 30 places.

    Beginning with 2015 (which wound up having 1727 entries), the SuperBook moved the cut out to the current 50 places. (There were 1854 entries in 2016.)

    – – –

    In assessing those moves – and the possible need to move the cut further down – I think it’s worthwhile to look at the payouts at the money cut in the recent past.

    For 2004 through 2012, the at-the-money-cut payouts at 20 places, with ties, ranged from a low of $1750 to a high of $5587, with the payout in four of those nine years exceeding $5000.

    In 2013 and 2014, the at-the-money-cut payouts at 30 places, with ties, were $1551 and $2105 respectively.

    In 2015 and 2016, the at-the-money-cut payouts at 50 places, with ties, were $2090.05 and $2217.35 respectively.

    You can access the full payout information for 2004 through 2015 in a .pdf via the “SuperContest History” link at this page:

    https://www.westgatedestinations.com...o/supercontest

    – – –

    Now, for me personally, I’m not playing to get my $1500 entry money back and some pocket change. I can make $500 or $700 a lot quicker and with less effort with the $1500, without having to also beat 2000 or so other bettors to boot. And, moreover, without having to deal with the 8% contest rake to grind out such a paltry return. It’s not a positive EV grind opportunity, to say the least.

    Nor am I playing to proclaim far and wide that I placed in the SuperContest (which I have, twice, . . . oops, there I went and did it, lol).

    No, I’m playing for a shot at bankroll changing money.

    So I’m hoping that they don’t rush to move the money cut down further. That necessarily dilutes the top-end money that I’m shooting for, and for not much benefit at the bottom end. Again, if a player wants to grind out small profits, there are better and quicker ways to do that.

    My recommendation would be to hold off on any further expansions of the money cut until the at-the-money-cut payout once again has crested $5000 for at least a couple of years. In short, let the at-the-money-cut payout and not simply entry numbers be the guide.
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  31. #66
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    VegasMatty‏ @Vegas_Matty 2h2 hours ago

    #SuperContest Update:

    157 entries for regular . . .

    3 for #SuperContestGold. . . . .
    Last edited by Squarepants; 07-11-17 at 06:40 PM. Reason: "'cause I got this badge, I got this gun, and I got the love of Jesus right here in my pretty green eyes."
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  32. #67

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Still on record pace heading the 200 entry way for SUPERCONTEST ENTRIES, we're signing up multiple people this weekend if a reliable proxy is needed for the sign up season, Late Saturday Morning Submission times available and changes are available if needed, many proxies do not offer one or both of these options, please ask the right questions before signing up.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    LVSuperBook‏ @LVSuperBook 9h9 hours ago

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    Last edited by Squarepants; 07-14-17 at 09:03 PM. Reason: "Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom."
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  34. #69

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo View Post
    >>Interesting bracket for GN. I would like to see them use shade a full point or
    at least a half point against every lined game.<<

    What does that mean?

    Jets +2.5
    Bills -3.5

    Like that?


    Yes and if not that at least:

    Bills -3.5
    Jets +3

    Bills -3
    Jets +2.5

    GN seems to be more proactive than WG with their contest. It would involve more handicapping instead of all of us cherry picking stale lines.

  35. #70

    Default Re: 2017 Football Handicapping Contests in Las Vegas

    Sides they are going to use 3 and/or possibly 7 a half point gap would eliminate much of the cherry picking advantage. I personally think only the games lined 3 need the half point gap tho.

    All other #'s and all totals should have a full point gap...with every side/total using hooks.

    Would like to see Kornegay also implement this for the Super Contest, and especially the 5k gold version, but I'm not holding my breath.

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