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  1. #36

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    a trip to Vegas and L.A where most teams will have two games before and after will bring fans for a mini vacation...Also the expansion rules give Vegas either a competitive team quickly or a stockpile of goalies to build one very good in 3-4 years

  2. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by railbird View Post
    inintal 1.5 to 2 yrs will be solid, then a falling knife from there.

    i agree

  3. #38

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    ".......No team will have success at the gate without success on the ice."

    Agreed- that's what I've said from the start! But I would rather see an expansion team in a "hockey" city like Quebec over a sunbelt city like Vegas.

    "Ok. And?"

    That has been a lot of people's argument for long term success. The amount of transplants in Vegas will come out to see their team when they come. Yes- hope they do. Rangers fans like myself will show the one time a year they come out. But 5-10 years from now, will locals come out when the Knights are playing the BlueJackets, Sharks or Coyotes on a Tuesday night? Sorry, I don't see it.

    "You realize the kid taken first overall last year was from Phoenix right? "

    For every Austin Matthews or Seth Jones, there's 95% other guys that grew up playing in the Northeast, upper Midwest, Canada or Europe. Again, I've lived in Vegas over 15 years and have never heard ONCE their parent say that they're taking their kid to hockey practice. Kids in this town grow up playing baseball, baskets, football, soccer, golf, etc

    "Because you have it in your head this is going to fail cause that's what you've been telling your buddies since this was merely an idea, has little to do with the reality of this. Zero. Sorry"

    I actually remember telling JK I was cautiously optimistic about the Vegas franchise about a year ago. The local apathy I've seen towards the team in comparison to the NFL team has made me more negative towards the chance for long term success.

    "Not sure how many more times I can tell you you ARE dead wrong but that's ok."

    Pull up this thread 10 years from now. I SINCERELY hope you are right!

  4. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Met View Post
    ".......No team will have success at the gate without success on the ice."

    Agreed- that's what I've said from the start! But I would rather see an expansion team in a "hockey" city like Quebec over a sunbelt city like Vegas.

    "Ok. And?"

    That has been a lot of people's argument for long term success. The amount of transplants in Vegas will come out to see their team when they come. Yes- hope they do. Rangers fans like myself will show the one time a year they come out. But 5-10 years from now, will locals come out when the Knights are playing the BlueJackets, Sharks or Coyotes on a Tuesday night? Sorry, I don't see it.
    Do you have a problem with me nicknaming you Negative Nelly from this point forward Eric? Times change. People change. Situations change. Rivalry's change. You do not need to see it. Put a winner on the ice and they will be flocking to that arena in the desert, in the heat, on a Tuesday night to see the Bluejackets. [Who if you haven't noticed are turning into a very respectable franchise with some proper management in place.] Put Wayne Gretzky behind your bench to coach your team and let's see how far you can set a franchise back in time. Then let's build a stadium where the people are not and let's see what the biggest financial crisis in 50 years does to building a fan base. Pardon me but you sould like every bandwagon fan in the upper bowl that yells "Shoot the puck" when your team is not performing on the ice as you like them too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Met View Post
    "You realize the kid taken first overall last year was from Phoenix right? "

    For every Austin Matthews or Seth Jones, there's 95% other guys that grew up playing in the Northeast, upper Midwest, Canada or Europe. Again, I've lived in Vegas over 15 years and have never heard ONCE their parent say that they're taking their kid to hockey practice. Kids in this town grow up playing baseball, baskets, football, soccer, golf, etc
    And how do you do that when your home team doesn't have but a couple arenas to play in? When the city you live in has never had a team to root for. A place to take your son to a real life NHL game you can buy him a jersey and a brand new hat all the other cool kids in his class now have? Of course, they are up against it putting a team in the desert. But 55 American kids were drafted last year including twelve [12] in the first round alone. 12. Canada's grip on the NHL has deteriorated every year. And we not only have Canada to deal and compete with but the amount of high-end Swedes and Russians are also a huge factor. You know...from places where it's really cold. And I have news for you. No kids are out playing baseball like when we were both kids today. Or have been for a very long time. Drive by ANY park and tell me how many kids you see playing baseball on the diamonds today. Good luck with that. It's not happening in Vegas, Detroit or in small towns in NY either. Too many other things to do these days unfortunatly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Met View Post
    I actually remember telling JK I was cautiously optimistic about the Vegas franchise about a year ago. The local apathy I've seen towards the team in comparison to the NFL team has made me more negative towards the chance for long term success.



    Pull up this thread 10 years from now. I SINCERELY hope you are right!
    sigh.

  5. #40

    Default Re: My Monday blog


  6. #41

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    "Do you have a problem with me nicknaming you Negative Nelly from this point forward Eric?"

    Nope- 30 + years of gambling and working in the casino industry has made me a pessimist unfortunately.

  7. #42

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    I believe I heard both the Arizona and Florida franchises are losing money each and every year.

  8. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaswizzard View Post
    I believe I heard both the Arizona and Florida franchises are losing money each and every year.
    The arenas make them money if they were. There's really no loss from any team as the value of the franchise themselves climb every single year. Florida has claimed losses in the past and I have to believe Phoenix does now somewhat. Or maybe I'm wrong as they really both have been operating close to the cap bottom for years. But the guy who owns Flodida was crying poverty to the people and making it back tenfold on the other events going on at his arena. And then say he lost 10-20m one year on a very bad year. It would be nothing to think the franche value doubled those loss numbers that year alone. Then they were able to write off the losses on their taxes in a game few of us are even aware of. Who buys a team in Phoenix in this situation??? Last time it was up for sale I believe there were 7 owners putting in bids for this franchise that is bleeding money. Give me a freakin break. If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

  9. #44

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    Let's wait until the draft.

    Much more talent exposed than in previous expansions

  10. #45

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    People in Las Vegas are as flighty as fuck and have the attention spans of gnats. Playing in the Western Conference is a bitch for even average teams and Lake Mead being at historic lows, the amount of garbage in the streets and problems hiring teachers and police could all doom any long-term success of an NHL franchise here in Las Vegas. It will be shiny at first, but i fear Railbird will be right in the long run. There just aren't that many rich people here that give a rat's ass about Hockey. The tourist attendance and locals loving their hometown teams may be the only hope. Can see about 12-14K serious fanbase. Good luck finding the other 10,000 for 41 Home games for the next decade.

  11. #46

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    Stadium only holds 17.500 for hockey.

  12. #47

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    Las Vegas must get the kids involved to get the support it needs to have a successful team...If the team succeeds then the other major sports will take notice....nothing but good luck to the Golden Knights....
    Everyone dies......but not everyone lives.....

  13. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinStott11 View Post
    Can see about 12-14K serious fanbase.

    The Coyotes would kill for that type of crowd on a nightly basis..

  14. #49

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    Casinos should be able to move huge amount of tickets through promotions if that is required, there should never be an empty seat. ... 334 Nevada gambling joints.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: My Monday blog

    Knights and Raiders both are going to do just fine.

    As I've written about before, working a "square" job here with people who don't hang out even at locals casinos gives you a different perspective. The same demographics from which the fanbases were drawn in the other major sports markets in which I've lived live in Las Vegas as well.

    http://forums.eog.com/showthread.php...ghlight=bakers (post #14)

    Rail, I'd be interested in seeing a source link to that 25,000 household figure for over 60K income. Sounds a tad low.
    Never confuse price with value, consensus with wisdom, or conformity with courage.

  16. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinStott11 View Post
    People in Las Vegas are as flighty as fuck and have the attention spans of gnats. Playing in the Western Conference is a bitch for even average teams and Lake Mead being at historic lows, the amount of garbage in the streets and problems hiring teachers and police could all doom any long-term success of an NHL franchise here in Las Vegas. It will be shiny at first, but i fear Railbird will be right in the long run. There just aren't that many rich people here that give a rat's ass about Hockey. The tourist attendance and locals loving their hometown teams may be the only hope. Can see about 12-14K serious fanbase. Good luck finding the other 10,000 for 41 Home games for the next decade.


    Add "flighty as fuck" to my EOG glossary.

  17. #52

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    Oh ahhh....paging Mr. Met

    https://www.nhl.com/goldenknights/vi...deo_content_id


    And Squarepants for opposite reasons.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: My Monday blog

    Geaux Knights!

    They've even got action on the games already. Can't get much more real than that.

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...-home-openers/
    Never confuse price with value, consensus with wisdom, or conformity with courage.

  19. #54

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    Lots of great points in this thread by many. My early thoughts are...

    McPhee is the front runner for GM of the year. As a season ticket holder I’m not excited about the team the Knights will be suiting up this year but I applaud his plan and guaranteeing that the team won’t be bottom feeders for very long. Drafting 10 players in their last year of a contract usually assures a top effort from them. If those players, (which include Neal, Perron, and Marchessault), do perform above and beyond future value will be realized at the trade deadline in early March.

    The count as of this morning has the Knights owning 13 draft picks this year including 3 first and 3 second rounders. I’m guessing 13 will grow into more by the end of this weekend. Building through the draft is the only way you can be successful in this cap driven NHL. As we’ve witnessed in recent years these “kids” aren’t really kids at all and many are only a year or two away from being franchise foundations for years to come.

    Bill Foley has done nothing but live up to his promise and try to grow the game in Vegas for the last year. They’ve been doing stick giveaways and teaching the fundamentals to the kids on numerous occasions. They are offering open houses on the team's practices, (once they begin), at the Red Rock facility. Rookie camp also will open to the public at the Ice Palace on Flamingo.

    While I’m not the biggest fan of having Marc-Andre Fleury as our number one there can be no denying he is the strongest ambassador possible to winning over this town and it’s kids. The standing ovation at his introduction at the awards/draft show showed that. He didn’t waste any time in strengthening that connection with pictures like this yesterday.







    It will be a tough debut this year but the future looks bright for this team.

  20. #55

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    Thanks for your insight, Vic.

  21. #56
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    The idea of the transplants filling the stadium is funny. Look at the southern teams in general outside of football, they have some of the worst attendance. I expect the Golden Knights to be the same. They will play a bunch of low-scoring games because that is the only way they can win in the first few years until they can develop talent. Are LV fans longing to see 3-1 games? Only time will tell.

  22. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by FairWarning View Post
    The idea of the transplants filling the stadium is funny. Look at the southern teams in general outside of football, they have some of the worst attendance. I expect the Golden Knights to be the same. They will play a bunch of low-scoring games because that is the only way they can win in the first few years until they can develop talent. Are LV fans longing to see 3-1 games? Only time will tell.
    You are not looking at the big picture. At all. Why would you even care the southern teams attendance isn't as good as the others? They are all profitable, and the game today is as exciting as it ever was. The idea is to grow the game in the states. More importantly, where we now have little to no fans. It needs exposure so it's going to be a slow process. Of course without any cold weather it's a tough sell. You have no idea what type of game the Knights will play and either do I. That will depend on the roster, the coachs style and what type of current trends that are successful in today's game.

    The difference is you are not putting up a dime as to wether this is successful or not. Foley just put up $500m betting against you. I'm gonna assume your not going to match that to discredit his research. No doubt the team will struggle for a good 2 years solid. Everyone knows that. More importantly the $15,000 season ticket holders who plunked down ( a lot close to $5k or more) know this as well. You say that like you are telling everyone what they had no idea would happen. Newsflash....everyone of them knew that. The important thing is the GM just set the team up like no other expansion franchise has ever put an expansion team into. He had 3 firsts, 3 2nds and 3 5th round pick to go along with all his others and even stock piled a few firsts in future years. So by the time the (new) wears off this team, they should be damn near ready to compete realistically. Thought I covered a lot of this in previous posts.

  23. #58
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    Plus, they get it and they're focusing on youth hockey from the getgo, including youth street hockey.

    When we moved to Danvers, Mass., I was playing street hockey before I ever strapped up skates to play on ice once the neighborhood pond froze over.

    They're thinking long term from the very beginning.
    Never confuse price with value, consensus with wisdom, or conformity with courage.

  24. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepants View Post
    Plus, they get it and they're focusing on youth hockey from the getgo, including youth street hockey.

    When we moved to Danvers, Mass., I was playing street hockey before I ever strapped up skates to play on ice once the neighborhood pond froze over.

    They're thinking long term from the very beginning.
    I still got the mylecs, easton, and sherwoods outside in the garage and ready to go

  25. #60

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    cue "Here Come the Hawks"
    see you in October

  26. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
    You are not looking at the big picture. At all. Why would you even care the southern teams attendance isn't as good as the others? They are all profitable, and the game today is as exciting as it ever was. The idea is to grow the game in the states. More importantly, where we now have little to no fans. It needs exposure so it's going to be a slow process. Of course without any cold weather it's a tough sell. You have no idea what type of game the Knights will play and either do I. That will depend on the roster, the coachs style and what type of current trends that are successful in today's game.

    The difference is you are not putting up a dime as to wether this is successful or not. Foley just put up $500m betting against you. I'm gonna assume your not going to match that to discredit his research. No doubt the team will struggle for a good 2 years solid. Everyone knows that. More importantly the $15,000 season ticket holders who plunked down ( a lot close to $5k or more) know this as well. You say that like you are telling everyone what they had no idea would happen. Newsflash....everyone of them knew that. The important thing is the GM just set the team up like no other expansion franchise has ever put an expansion team into. He had 3 firsts, 3 2nds and 3 5th round pick to go along with all his others and even stock piled a few firsts in future years. So by the time the (new) wears off this team, they should be damn near ready to compete realistically. Thought I covered a lot of this in previous posts.
    The big picture is they could have done this anywhere, but the NHL thinks they will outsmart themselves by playing in another non-hockey market. This reminds me of the Big 10 adding Rutgers and Maryland - not to make the conference better, but to expand their brand and get the Big 10 Network into eastern markets. If I'm wrong, I'll be the 1st to admit it.

    Raiders in LV will be a huge success.

  27. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxo View Post
    Casinos should be able to move huge amount of tickets through promotions if that is required, there should never be an empty seat. ... 334 Nevada gambling joints.
    Problem with that is that casinos do not want their customers leaving the premises....they want their customers inside the hotel at all times...
    Everyone dies......but not everyone lives.....

  28. #63

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    NFL will kill it in Vegas. And everyone will wonder why it didn't happen earlier.

    NFL + Vegas + perfect.

    Watch.

  29. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Diablo View Post
    NFL will kill it in Vegas. And everyone will wonder why it didn't happen earlier.

    NFL + Vegas + perfect.

    Watch.
    agree, raiders perfect fit, dirtbag team in a dirtbag town

  30. #65

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    In my opinion, in terms of fan interest, Vegas has already been one of the biggest NFL cities in the country for years and years now. (And I'm talking about the local population, not the tourists that root their team on in the sports books.)

    Two reasons: Transplants and betting.

  31. #66

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    Good point, EJD.

  32. #67

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    Visiting fans better come because Vegas will not support this NHL team longterm. Vegas residents in general have no city pride. It's just a big melting pot.

  33. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by raycabino View Post
    Visiting fans better come because Vegas will not support this NHL team longterm. Vegas residents in general have no city pride. It's just a big melting pot.
    Based on what Ray? Just simply your opinion? Any other reasons you don't feel they will survive? And how many years are "long term"?

  34. #69
    Bells Beer Connoisseur FairWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
    Based on what Ray? Just simply your opinion? Any other reasons you don't feel they will survive? And how many years are "long term"?
    Vegas will only support a winner after the honeymoon is over.

  35. #70

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    I think it gets out the gate fine because it's new and exciting. However there is no city pride in Vegas. I lived there for 9 years. No one gives a fuck about UNLV and they've had a decent program for quite some time. The majority of people that live in Vegas came from somewhere else so they don't care about Vegas based teams. It will survive for a while because of casinos and visiting fan bases but I think it will struggle longterm. I would think by year 3 it would start really declining. The Raiders I think will survive because only 8 game seasons and their fan base is only a few hours away.

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