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Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

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  • #81
    Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

    Originally posted by groovinmahoovin View Post
    but on the whole, if he were beating the close it would basically be impossible for him to have lost over the large sample of tracked picks, which is 5 seasons worth of football and everything he's released to his BLAP "service" the last year.
    HUH? Beatign the closer with a BAD play doesnt mean shit. I dont know why you guys dont get that.

    If Fezziks opinion is garbage you could give him a TD better than the 'closer' and he probably wouldnt make money. Its very very every simple to look at touts and how what they picked and grade them against any number you want AFTER the fact. Thats the way they do it. I asked cmpterbob several times to grade not only Fezzik but also Ed at RAS (because his opinions actually move lines (mostly because of the limits on what he plays but they still move) to see just how much the lines and moves actually matter to people who dont always get the number released or even better.

    Its not all that difficult with a scraper that is set up that way. You could search for best and worst available along with the 'release' number. So you would in essence have 3 separate sets of results. I suspect long term Fezzik wouldnt win in any of the categories.

    Comment


    • #82
      Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

      You did omit Ind, S.Miss, and Oreg.St over.. all which moved 3.5 pts or more favorably..I am not familiar with his prior work but do agree beating closers should have equated to long term success.

      Comment


      • #83
        Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

        Great job, Groovin. Keep after it. Public svc-announcement.

        You're telling me that u CAN'T win by rationalizing picks and noting "distractions" as reasons to handicap sporting-events?

        Comment


        • #84
          Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

          Originally posted by pippy View Post
          You did omit Ind, S.Miss, and Oreg.St over.. all which moved 3.5 pts or more favorably..I am not familiar with his prior work but do agree beating closers should have equated to long term success.
          I did look at his first 4 picks in order, and once I realized your claim was inaccurate, there was no need to look further.

          And LOL, he released Indiana on June 12. His service costs $1000 a month, he supposedly has tons of happy customers betting tens of thousands on his games, yet he's releasing CFB plays 3 months in advance into puny limits, nothing suspicious there at all. That Indiana play was graded vs the Greek, and while I don't know what the Greek was taking on CFB sides back in June, I do know they're taking a whopping $200 on NFL season wins bets the night before the season starts, so they are not exactly a high roller book.

          Comment


          • #85
            Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

            Originally posted by groovinmahoovin View Post
            I did look at his first 4 picks in order, and once I realized your claim was inaccurate, there was no need to look further.

            And LOL, he released Indiana on June 12. His service costs $1000 a month, he supposedly has tons of happy customers betting tens of thousands on his games, yet he's releasing CFB plays 3 months in advance into puny limits, nothing suspicious there at all. That Indiana play was graded vs the Greek, and while I don't know what the Greek was taking on CFB sides back in June, I do know they're taking a whopping $200 on NFL season wins bets the night before the season starts, so they are not exactly a high roller book.
            You're telling me the Greek sportsbook is taking a max bet of $200 on NFL rsw totals?! Are you sure? That makes no sense. Did the Greek sell to someone?

            Comment


            • #86
              Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

              Originally posted by Drnkyourmlkshk View Post
              You're telling me the Greek sportsbook is taking a max bet of $200 on NFL rsw totals?! Are you sure? That makes no sense. Did the Greek sell to someone?
              I believe they sold their USA player sheet to heritage. That does sound way way too low but groovin has his facts correct much more often that not.

              Comment


              • #87
                Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                That is true. Right on the website:

                "Max Wager is $200."

                Comment


                • #88
                  Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                  Originally posted by groovinmahoovin View Post
                  I did look at his first 4 picks in order, and once I realized your claim was inaccurate, there was no need to look further.

                  And LOL, he released Indiana on June 12. His service costs $1000 a month, he supposedly has tons of happy customers betting tens of thousands on his games, yet he's releasing CFB plays 3 months in advance into puny limits, nothing suspicious there at all. That Indiana play was graded vs the Greek, and while I don't know what the Greek was taking on CFB sides back in June, I do know they're taking a whopping $200 on NFL season wins bets the night before the season starts, so they are not exactly a high roller book.
                  The Indiana play was graded at the Greek but W.A. It was also included in a summer package that cost far less $1000 per month I believe less than $200.00

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    You had all June/ July to bet Indiana at below -7

                    I went 13-4 week1 CFB, all documented by Computer Bob.

                    Indiana was -4.5 to -5 when I released it. THERE WAS NOT A -5.5 in the world when I gave it out.............and if you wanted to get down, i am SURE you could have played $10,000 at -5 no problem........

                    I won't beat all the line moves, and in fact got flipped the bird on my BYU UNDER 62 (as another poster said, getting the best number isn't as important as getting the right side).

                    However, in the interest of fair and unbiased reporting, at least list my plays like Min/Or St OVER 51.5, and Ind -5, etc.

                    Palm Tree got ALL of my CFB plays all summer long, he can vouch for EVERY one of them being available....

                    Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                      Greek did sell info to Heritage but many of the big time players who tried heritage left because heritage had a habit of putting out super sharp lines in soccer and tennis and overnight limits were essentially 0. It's hard enough beating a book but the way they did business, made it even harder. Just a bad combination.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                        Originally posted by railbird View Post
                        my clients buy the entire season, they don't bother me all year.
                        Originally posted by railbird
                        Satan time is short

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Re: You had all June/ July to bet Indiana at below -7

                          Originally posted by Fezzik View Post
                          I went 13-4 week1 CFB, all documented by Computer Bob.

                          Indiana was -4.5 to -5 when I released it. THERE WAS NOT A -5.5 in the world when I gave it out.............and if you wanted to get down, i am SURE you could have played $10,000 at -5 no problem........

                          I won't beat all the line moves, and in fact got flipped the bird on my BYU UNDER 62 (as another poster said, getting the best number isn't as important as getting the right side).

                          However, in the interest of fair and unbiased reporting, at least list my plays like Min/Or St OVER 51.5, and Ind -5, etc.

                          Palm Tree got ALL of my CFB plays all summer long, he can vouch for EVERY one of them being available....

                          Thank you.
                          The problem with saying that is its not always a consistent stance. People use it when it fits what happens. If you have a loser and it 'beats' a number you say 'right side wrong result'. Its like guys who do this all day everyday are allergic to thinking that the moves can be wrong. Or betting against a move is dumb, even if the move is enough to justify a play on it.

                          It goes back to the debate of approach versus results. Which I stand FIRMLY on one side of. Because I know the results of moves and theyre not a golden ticket. And I think I pay attention to them enough to also know that these 'head fakes' and 'set up' moves are fairy tales and that 'wasting' money to get the SMALLEST of advantage (at best, which I dont think matter either) isnt something a person living on a 2 to 5% 'advantage would do. Because these guys should be smart enough to see for themselves that after they check all their plays where they made a 'fake' move the results are not going to justify the money they spent on a side they didnt want, even if it was at a decent number. Of course they might look at those plays as insurance if their 'main' side loses, and maybe count any sides or middles they get as a bonus. But for the most part they could get those anyway.

                          If someone has a very good opinion and a good approach theyre going to make money. But you cant flip flop back and forth after the fact and cite being on the 'right side' and losing as anything more than you and everyone else who bet that team were WRONG. And that 'approach' isnt as simple as beating steam or having the 'best' number on a team that had a major move on it.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                            Originally posted by Drnkyourmlkshk View Post
                            You're telling me the Greek sportsbook is taking a max bet of $200 on NFL rsw totals?! Are you sure? That makes no sense. Did the Greek sell to someone?
                            Since Spiro left and the Greek moved all the Americans to Heritage it's a completely different type of book with substantially lower limits.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                              Originally posted by pippy View Post
                              The Indiana play was graded at the Greek but W.A.
                              There is no such thing as a WA CFB line on June 12. Pinny hadn't opened yet, most Vegas books hadn't opened yet.

                              Originally posted by pippy View Post
                              It was also included in a summer package that cost far less $1000 per month I believe less than $200.00
                              How generous of his $1000 BLAP high rollers that they didn't mind his CFB picks released 3 months in advance at low limits to the unwashed masses who pay much less than they do.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Re: You had all June/ July to bet Indiana at below -7

                                Originally posted by Fezzik View Post
                                I went 13-4 week1 CFB, all documented by Computer Bob.

                                Indiana was -4.5 to -5 when I released it. THERE WAS NOT A -5.5 in the world when I gave it out.............and if you wanted to get down, i am SURE you could have played $10,000 at -5 no problem........

                                I won't beat all the line moves, and in fact got flipped the bird on my BYU UNDER 62 (as another poster said, getting the best number isn't as important as getting the right side).

                                However, in the interest of fair and unbiased reporting, at least list my plays like Min/Or St OVER 51.5, and Ind -5, etc.

                                Palm Tree got ALL of my CFB plays all summer long, he can vouch for EVERY one of them being available....

                                Thank you.
                                For once in your life can you just provide a representative sample of how you really perform when it comes to sports betting? It is just so tiresome seeing you tout this 13-4 in week 1 BS.

                                WHAT IS YOUR CAREER ROI?


                                This is the easiest metric to track, it is a simple division calculation involving two numbers.

                                Thank you.
                                Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Re: You had all June/ July to bet Indiana at below -7

                                  Originally posted by Fezzik View Post
                                  I went 13-4 week1 CFB, all documented by Computer Bob.
                                  Cool. What are Bob's full records for you from 2009-present? Feel free to include JoeFlex's previous season if you think I cherry picked the end point.

                                  Indiana was -4.5 to -5 when I released it. THERE WAS NOT A -5.5 in the world when I gave it out.............and if you wanted to get down, i am SURE you could have played $10,000 at -5 no problem........
                                  Actually the "largest legal bookmaker" Cantor had -6 and South Point had -5.5, so if you don't even know what the line was, I question your recollection of the limits. Books that had that line were Golden Nugget, TI (LOL), Westgate, and William Hill (LOL). Pinnacle didn't open until 7 weeks later.

                                  I won't beat all the line moves, and in fact got flipped the bird on my BYU UNDER 62 (as another poster said, getting the best number isn't as important as getting the right side).
                                  We are now taking handicapping advice from WantItAll. My stars.

                                  However, in the interest of fair and unbiased reporting, at least list my plays like Min/Or St OVER 51.5, and Ind -5, etc.
                                  Are you brain damaged? Someone incorrectly claimed "all but 1 of your plays beat the close." I looked at 4, saw none of them beat the close, and confirmed the statement was inaccurate. But I'm the one who's reporting isn't "fair and unbiased?"

                                  Palm Tree got ALL of my CFB plays all summer long, he can vouch for EVERY one of them being available....
                                  How come every source you quote outside of ComptrBob is affiliated with Pregame or one of your tout buddies?

                                  Again it's very generous of all your BLAP subscribers that they don't mind Palm Tree and a bunch of touts getting all the BLAP plays in addition to you selling the plays to the plebes who pay way less than they do, I guess it's a good thing for the BLAP customers none of these people bet appreciable amounts.

                                  The hilarious thing is that even with limits as low as they were, the line still existed for 7 hours before anybody bothered to move it. The "world's greatest sports bettor" is no longer able to move a CFB line 3 months in advance when Pinny hasn't even opened and only 4 Vegas books, 2 of which have LOL limits, even have the line.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Indiana -5 was a slam dunk to bet.......

                                    You cannot cry about low limits when you have SEVEN HOURS to get down on -5...........at multiple places...............

                                    I listed Palm Tree since he was on my list this summer. As was Computer Bob.

                                    Two 100% unbiased (arguably Bob can be biased the other way IMO).

                                    +30 UNITS YTd.....Bob getting all the plays.......let's see where we are in 2018 Gentleman.......

                                    Ps. "Big Man" behind the Computer Groovin continues to avoid me at all costs.............come up to talk to me next time your in Nevada Big man.........

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                      Originally posted by FairWarning View Post
                                      They didn't miss Bell at all last year.
                                      They did when Williams got hurt and the 3rd stringer fumbled in Denver.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Re: Indiana -5 was a slam dunk to bet.......

                                        Originally posted by Fezzik View Post
                                        You cannot cry about low limits when you have SEVEN HOURS to get down on -5...........at multiple places...............

                                        I listed Palm Tree since he was on my list this summer. As was Computer Bob.

                                        Two 100% unbiased (arguably Bob can be biased the other way IMO).

                                        +30 UNITS YTd.....Bob getting all the plays.......let's see where we are in 2018 Gentleman.......

                                        Ps. "Big Man" behind the Computer Groovin continues to avoid me at all costs.............come up to talk to me next time your in Nevada Big man.........
                                        Its always amazing how people get when they have a good weekend or show some short term success. Not you in particular but this is a perfect example of it. If you go 3-12 and Groovin wants to meet it might be a different story.

                                        But then again the thing that started all this was you stiffing him on a face to face now that you have proffered (another) one you might regret it.

                                        Comment


                                        • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                          Originally posted by groovinmahoovin View Post
                                          Since Spiro left and the Greek moved all the Americans to Heritage it's a completely different type of book with substantially lower limits.

                                          Very few really the the agreement that was made. Offices do not put agreements in the newspapers.

                                          Comment


                                          • Re: Indiana -5 was a slam dunk to bet.......

                                            Originally posted by Fezzik View Post
                                            You cannot cry about low limits when you have SEVEN HOURS to get down on -5...........at multiple places...............

                                            I listed Palm Tree since he was on my list this summer. As was Computer Bob.

                                            Two 100% unbiased (arguably Bob can be biased the other way IMO).

                                            +30 UNITS YTd.....Bob getting all the plays.......let's see where we are in 2018 Gentleman.......

                                            Ps. "Big Man" behind the Computer Groovin continues to avoid me at all costs.............come up to talk to me next time your in Nevada Big man.........
                                            I don't care about WA #'s or your CLV #'s or who you gave your picks to or who you want to engage in juvenile fisticuffs with, etc.

                                            All I want to know is the following:

                                            WHAT IS YOUR CAREER ROI?

                                            It is a very a simple question.

                                            Thank you.
                                            Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                            Comment


                                            • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                              does ROI matter what amount the bettor is playing at?

                                              Comment


                                              • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                ​What is ROI?

                                                Comment


                                                • Re: Indiana -5 was a slam dunk to bet.......

                                                  Originally posted by Fezzik View Post
                                                  You cannot cry about low limits when you have SEVEN HOURS to get down on -5...........at multiple places...............
                                                  Maybe this isn't the case for you, but when most people make a limit bet, the line moves. 4 Vegas books had that line. The limits were, Gold Nugget and Westgate, $1000, William Hill and TI, if you're able to bet there (if you had really won as much for BLAP as you claim, there's almost zero chance a customer could bet at either) were $500. You are beating your chest about a bet where the total amount that could be bet in Vegas was $3000 max, $2000 for most people with a clue.

                                                  It is a new level of absurd that you are citing as a testament to your credibility that something with a $3000 total limit in Vegas sat around for 7 hours when you supposedly have lots of happy customers paying you $1000 a year and betting tens of thousands on your plays.

                                                  Two 100% unbiased (arguably Bob can be biased the other way IMO).
                                                  LMAO. I would love to hear what argument you have that Bob is biased against you, my stars.

                                                  +30 UNITS YTd.....Bob getting all the plays.......let's see where we are in 2018 Gentleman.......
                                                  And about -30 UNITS last year with Bob getting all the plays.

                                                  Ps. "Big Man" behind the Computer Groovin continues to avoid me at all costs.............come up to talk to me next time your in Nevada Big man.........
                                                  "Your in Nevada." The pride of Northwestern. Your statement is hilarious because you dodged my emails about a stupid dinner bet I won, and also an agreement you made "dinner on me to whoever helps me with this problem," to which Wantitall says that the reason I dislike you is because "Fezzik stopped returning Groovin's emails because Fezzik decided Groovin was a stalker." So you avoid me because "I'm a stalker," yet you complain that I won't fly across the country to shove ComptrBob's records in your face or whatever the hell it is you think a face to face confrontation would solve.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                    Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                    does ROI matter what amount the bettor is playing at?
                                                    In terms of tracking touts, since widely available lines are used for grading, no.

                                                    In practice, a smaller bettor, or one newer to betting, could have a higher ROI bc he has access to lower limit books. For example, I saw square offshore books this morning dealing Denver +170 and Denver +3 +115 for small limits, whereas a larger bettor likely couldn't get those lines. Of course, if the small bettor is betting some of the awful lines I saw out there like Panthers -3 -135 or Panthers -200, that won't help his ROI.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                      Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                      does ROI matter what amount the bettor is playing at?
                                                      As Groovin mentioned, your ROI is affected by the prices you can procure which is exactly why lines/prices matter. But in general, no, the amount is irrelevant since ROI is a percentage figure.

                                                      If your ROI is 2% then whether you put in play $1,000,000 or $1,000 during a season, your return will be 2% of your total turnover.

                                                      For specific bet amounts, let’s take 3 different bettors who bet 3 different amounts ($100 , $1000, $10,000) into a 1.91 price point (-110) and they all win.

                                                      Profit or Loss / Turnover = ROI

                                                      100/110 = 90.9% ROI

                                                      1,000/1,100 = 90.9% ROI

                                                      10,000/11,000 = 90.9% ROI

                                                      Your ROI is synonymous with your edge and is the simplest, most robust performance metric (over a large sample size) and is why I am asking the question.

                                                      I am guessing Fezz has about a about a -1.5% ROI (no clue if this is true). So if you put $1,000,000 in play based upon his picks over the last 5 to 7 years then:

                                                      $1,000,000 * -.015 = -$15,000

                                                      Therefore, you would have lost ~ 15K following his picks.

                                                      Like I said, besides it being a negative #, I don’t know Fezz’s exact ROI. We could probably figure it out by taking his normalized win rate over the years but he could save us all the trouble by sharing it.
                                                      Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                        Fezzik is always touting his win loss record but has anyone noticed that over 85% of his plays the last two months are lined -120 to -180. The guy is a chalk eater and long term loser.

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                                                        • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                          thank you groovin and gamebred....I see..I thought the ROI was the investment of his service per month or year everyone was talking about.

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                                                          • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                            Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                            thank you groovin and gamebred....I see..I thought the ROI was the investment of his service per month or year everyone was talking about.
                                                            No worries. As a bettor, you would have to include his fee's as well, my oversight, I was just talking about his ROI on released picks.

                                                            The tipster fee inflates the vig on the front end and serves as a drag on returns on the back-end, which would make our hypothetical 15K loss even worse.

                                                            A $25 tipster fee is actually a $50 roundtrip cost; instead of betting 110 to win 100, you are betting 135 to win 75. This drastically increases your required Break-Even Win Rate and this demand for increased winners is typically not met by the tipster supply (which is why they are selling in the first place).
                                                            Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                              Originally posted by texaswizzard View Post
                                                              Fezzik is always touting his win loss record but has anyone noticed that over 85% of his plays the last two months are lined -120 to -180. The guy is a chalk eater and long term loser.
                                                              Exactly, which means absolutely nothing in isolation. He is eating chalk to buy performance so he can pimp his Strike Rate. He is a walking fishbowl.

                                                              Which is why he never has and never will share his ROI but that doesn't mean I'll stop asking
                                                              Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                Originally posted by GameBred View Post
                                                                No worries. As a bettor, you would have to include his fee's as well, my oversight, I was just talking about his ROI on released picks.

                                                                The tipster fee inflates the vig on the front end and serves as a drag on returns on the back-end, which would make our hypothetical 15K loss even worse.

                                                                A $25 tipster fee is actually a $50 roundtrip cost; instead of betting 110 to win 100, you are betting 135 to win 75. This drastically increases your required Break-Even Win Rate and this demand for increased winners is typically not met by the tipster supply (which is why they are selling in the first place).
                                                                The amount you bet would affect the pernicious effects of the Tipster fee in that the more you bet, the less the tipster fee will affect you.
                                                                Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                  Some incorrect statements in the last couple posts. You dont double dip with tout fees. But its effect is obviously less the more you bet. If you pay a tout 25 bux and bet 5000 @ -110 to win 4545.45 you are betting 5000(plus 25) to win 4545.45 or betting 5000 to win 4545.45 (minus 25). or 5525 to win 5000 or 5500 to clear 4975.

                                                                  ROI also isnt your edge. Odds/vig/holds are not edge. Theyre the prices the effect what you receive per what amount you lay. There is actually no way to show a persons edge. At least in terms of actually winning or losing the bet. You can gain an edge over prices you have to pay. So if you take -125 and someone else lays -135. Then you dont really have an 'edge' over them. But if you want to make a semantics argument and youre in a contest with them then you could claim you do. But you both bet the same side and therefore you both will either win or lose the same bet one person will just win more (if they bet the same) or have to lay less to win the same amount. But that is directly related to RoI. Return on amount bet. Regardless of if you bet 100 @ -125 to win 80 or if you bet 125 to win 100. Your RoI is going to be constant.

                                                                  RoI is strictly another 'scorekeeping' mechanism. If a person puts 5 million through the windows a year and shows a profit of 325,682 their RoI is 6.5% regardless of HOW they bet to get there. Whether it be one way action, scalps, buy backs, futures, parlay cars or whatever.

                                                                  People usually get caught up in shit that doesnt even matter. The ONLY thing that matters is making money. Chest bumping and thumping on HOW you did it means absolutely nothing. If you can show 350+K in profits a year betting sports even if you had to use 5 million to get it no one is going to want you to break down every bet you made and how 'sharp' or 'square' they were and I doubt anyone is going to say...'yeah but how much would you have won if you had gotten a half a point on such and such a game'.

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                                                                  • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                    Not counting the prop bets , plays hard to get down on cause of limits at the sportsbooks the fees would mean very little if wagers were increased. Sure it must be included for the bottom line... but if Steve wins giving out plays... $1000 per year is nothing if that is his price for picks... if it is per month...then I would not do it without true records and a money back if he loses. That is why I like what Joey Tunes does on his year package is what all people selling picks should do money back if he loses. I never heard of anyone doing this. How long it lasts....who knows.....If I was to join anyone now it would be Joey Tunes.
                                                                    I had Sixth Sense and RAS ..problem was both jacked up prices .........then they had bad years most people left. RAS plays seconds before the times release. Having a line service can see that. Sixth Sense was getting the same way. Both IMO win without the service but it is a great way to add $$$ to your mattress. Having don best or SportsOptions is a must to see what the touts are doing. SportsOptions catches just about all RAS side plays or totals . I do not have any tout service anymore but joined quite a few in the past just to gain some info for personal reasons.

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                                                                    • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                      Originally posted by wantitall4moi View Post
                                                                      Some incorrect statements in the last couple posts. You dont double dip with tout fees. But its effect is obviously less the more you bet. If you pay a tout 25 bux and bet 5000 @ -110 to win 4545.45 you are betting 5000(plus 25) to win 4545.45 or betting 5000 to win 4545.45 (minus 25). or 5525 to win 5000 or 5500 to clear 4975.
                                                                      If you are betting $5500 to win $5000 on a coin flip, and you pay the tout $25, 50% of the time you lose $5575 (your $5500 plus the $25), and 50% of the time you win $4975, (your $5000 minus the $25), hence you are risking $5575 to win $4975. Why am I not surprised such simple arithmetic would be lost on you.

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                                                                      • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                        is Steve's BLAP $1000 a year or month?

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                                                                        • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                          unplayable...he gives out a play "Available at the STRAT"

                                                                          if you don't live in LV and not funded at 6 offshore forget it........

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                                                                          • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                            Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                                            Not counting the prop bets , plays hard to get down on cause of limits at the sportsbooks the fees would mean very little if wagers were increased. Sure it must be included for the bottom line... but if Steve wins giving out plays... $1000 per year is nothing if that is his price for picks... if it is per month...then I would not do it without true records and a money back if he loses. That is why I like what Joey Tunes does on his year package is what all people selling picks should do money back if he loses. I never heard of anyone doing this. How long it lasts....who knows.....If I was to join anyone now it would be Joey Tunes.
                                                                            I had Sixth Sense and RAS ..problem was both jacked up prices .........then they had bad years most people left. RAS plays seconds before the times release. Having a line service can see that. Sixth Sense was getting the same way. Both IMO win without the service but it is a great way to add $$$ to your mattress. Having don best or SportsOptions is a must to see what the touts are doing. SportsOptions catches just about all RAS side plays or totals . I do not have any tout service anymore but joined quite a few in the past just to gain some info for personal reasons.
                                                                            Never heard of Joey Tunes but I like his business model; may he inspire a host of imitators.

                                                                            As for Fezz winning, he is on tape admitting that Pregame clients are still going to lose.
                                                                            Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

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                                                                            • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                              Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                                              is Steve's BLAP $1000 a year or month?
                                                                              Month but you only pay if he wins 5u or more. Well actually if you bet the minimum of $200 per unit when Steve wins 5u you don't win. That's how he rolls.

                                                                              You pay a dime, he wins 5u and you don't win shit

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                                                                              • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                                Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                                                is Steve's BLAP $1000 a year or month?
                                                                                I think a month. Groovin would know.
                                                                                Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

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                                                                                • Re: Fezzik: It's hard to say which is more inept

                                                                                  Originally posted by Sportsrmylife View Post
                                                                                  Month but you only pay if he wins 5u or more. Well actually if you bet the minimum of $200 per unit when Steve wins 5u you don't win. That's how he rolls.

                                                                                  You pay a dime, he wins 5u and you don't win shit
                                                                                  Or Sporty
                                                                                  Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

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