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  • #41
    Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

    Originally posted by GameBred View Post
    LOL. I know, I know. You'll fucking unload on those Born of Woman, Nerds, the first chance you get if they play Cle

    Full Disclosure: If/when Cavs get there, I may come right out of the box w/ a speech
    Lol you better dig deep. I feel They have very little to no chance vs the Warriors however if Houston shits out vs Gol St I think Cle has a punchers chance vs them.

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    • #42
      Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

      The Toronto series got LeBron/Cavs backers delirious. Celtics take this series easily.

      Comment


      • #43
        Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

        Originally posted by raycabino View Post
        Lol you better dig deep. I feel They have very little to no chance vs the Warriors however if Houston shits out vs Gol St I think Cle has a punchers chance vs them.
        I would much rather play Houston and that's an understatement.

        FYI: I already started digging
        Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

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        • #44
          Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

          Originally posted by MonkeyF0cker View Post
          The Toronto series got LeBron/Cavs backers delirious. Celtics take this series easily.
          No. At least for me. That was a matchup issue. I figured going in it would be tougher than Tor but easier than Indy. I thought it would be wrapped up in 5 but I'll update and move it to 6.
          Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

          Comment


          • #45
            Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

            Originally posted by MonkeyF0cker View Post
            The Toronto series got LeBron/Cavs backers delirious. Celtics take this series easily.
            Possibly. This Boston team has me baffled.

            Comment


            • #46
              Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

              Originally posted by raycabino View Post
              Possibly. This Boston team has me baffled.
              Win easily? No fucking way, Ray. I could be wrong but they aren't that good; in the sense of spanking an LBJ-led team.
              Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

              Comment


              • #47
                Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                Someone is making $$ on these NBA playoffs, and it ain't me. Proper valuation of a team is very tough.

                ONE GUY making $$ on these playoffs is HC Brad Stevens. Not that he's forcing anyone's hand...but guy can name his price, right? Would he have any interest in Duke job in 3 years?

                I really think Irving looks expendable now, based on Celtic surge.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                  Originally posted by Bigrunner View Post
                  Series price seems low. After Boston won game 1 against Phily they were still a series dog of +185. They're gaining respect and deserve it. I like the Celtics in this series. I think price goes up and I will wait.
                  That's why the play the games...and post the lines.

                  GBred's comment about Game2 price is critical. Blowout normally triggers line inflation. Which would mean Cavs toward -2.5.

                  And if that's right, what will the home games be? -8.5?

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                  • #49
                    Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                    Irish Tim was good at pricing Series mid-stream. Guy has bigger + better things to do now, I think.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                      Originally posted by Bigrunner View Post
                      Series price seems low. After Boston won game 1 against Phily they were still a series dog of +185. They're gaining respect and deserve it. I like the Celtics in this series. I think price goes up and I will wait.
                      I have the dogs in both these series, because, obviously, I thought the faves were greatly inflated. But this downward adjustment on Cle actually has me thinking about hedging out of my Boston bet. It's just one road loss, after all.

                      Without yet doing any math, or line shopping, I'd say the updated series price looks fair.

                      The refusal of the market to adjust after Boston gm 1 win over Phi gave us a golden bet spot. I guess they didn't want to make that same mistake again.

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                      • #51
                        Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                        Originally posted by boston massacre View Post
                        With the 4 Sides of the Ball on the Court at the same time, that being the Boston Offense/ Defense, and the Cleveland Offense/Defense, and after a Finished Regular Season and 2 Rounds of the Playoffs , I would say that the Worst Side of the 4, is the Cleveland Defense.
                        Agreed, and I would say the best of the 4 is the Boston defense
                        All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

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                        • #52
                          Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                          Originally posted by raycabino;5024032[B
                          ]I think the scariest part of the game tonight for Cle backers is the way Boston defended Lebron[/B]. They decided to do all they could to take Lebron out of the game and they were successful beyond what I thought possible. Despite Cle shooting poorly they will still have to make some real adjustments if they want to be successful in this series.
                          Another great move by Stevens starting Morris over Baynes. After Morris picked up his second foul early in the game Stevens chose to keep him in, he didn't want to break up his rhythm, every time a player picks up a couple of early fouls he heads to the bench, but Stevens took a gamble and left Morris out there, and he rewarded his coach's faith in him by defending LeBron as well as anyone could and also scoring 21 points with 10 rebounds
                          All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

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                          • #53
                            Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                            Originally posted by ChuckyG View Post
                            Someone is making $$ on these NBA playoffs, and it ain't me. Proper valuation of a team is very tough.

                            ONE GUY making $$ on these playoffs is HC Brad Stevens. Not that he's forcing anyone's hand...but guy can name his price, right? Would he have any interest in Duke job in 3 years?

                            I really think Irving looks expendable now, based on Celtic surge.
                            Danny Ainge will have an interesting decision next year. The Celtics haven't missed a beat with Irving being out, and given his injury history it wouldn't come as a shock to me if Irving was traded and here's why. Terry Rozier has played out of his mind since Irving went down, but after next season he becomes a free agent and he's shown he's good enough to be a starter, some team will offer him a long term lucrative deal that Boston wouldn't be able to match, so I have a feeling either Irving or Rozier get moved, Ainge can get back more in an Irving trade (possibly Kawhi), or he can flip Rozier for maybe another first round pick. If Ainge thinks the Celtics can win a title, he could keep them both knowing he'll lose Rozier at season's end, but I have a feeling one of them gets moved either in the off season or during the season, either way Danny has some thinking to do, it all depends on how Danny and Brad view Rozier, is this the player they'll have going forward, or is he just in a great zone right now, either way the Celtics have a decision to make regarding this situation
                            All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

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                            • #54
                              Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                              Originally posted by kane View Post
                              Another great move by Stevens starting Morris over Baynes. After Morris picked up his second foul early in the game Stevens chose to keep him in, he didn't want to break up his rhythm, every time a player picks up a couple of early fouls he heads to the bench, but Stevens took a gamble and left Morris out there, and he rewarded his coach's faith in him by defending LeBron as well as anyone could and also scoring 21 points with 10 rebounds
                              To lessen the rather slim chance that a player fouls out & won’t be able to play for a few minutes, most coaches response is: bench the player, thereby GUARANTEEING the result you’re trying to prevent.

                              Stevens made the correct move there.

                              Biggest dumbass ever in this category was John Thompson.

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                              • #55
                                Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                LeBron's eyes got big when he looked up and saw Aaron Baynes guarding him in what was a short lived failed experiment and one of the few bad moves by Stevens. As for LeBron a -32 while on the court with no other player remotely close, nobody even in the 20's. Take him out of his game and he starts whining while at times failing to get back on D as he bitches to the ref.

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                                • #56
                                  Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                  Originally posted by pbovi View Post
                                  LeBron's eyes got big when he looked up and saw Aaron Baynes guarding him in what was a short lived failed experiment and one of the few bad moves by Stevens. As for LeBron a -32 while on the court with no other player remotely close, nobody even in the 20's. Take him out of his game and he starts whining while at times failing to get back on D as he bitches to the ref.
                                  yep, I remember Kawhi Leonard making him totally disappear

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                                  • #57
                                    Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                    missing bovi and gabe mercenary, where is bovi on nba be found?

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                                    • #58
                                      Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                      Originally posted by pbovi View Post
                                      LeBron's eyes got big when he looked up and saw Aaron Baynes guarding him in what was a short lived failed experiment and one of the few bad moves by Stevens. As for LeBron a -32 while on the court with no other player remotely close, nobody even in the 20's. Take him out of his game and he starts whining while at times failing to get back on D as he bitches to the ref.
                                      Yes. Im not saying it was sustainable but each time Brick sat the Cavs begun to cut the deficit. As comical as it sounds the Celtic fans were hollering for him to get back in the game.

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                                      • #59
                                        Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                        The whole team ball watches when LeBron is out there, except Korver I suppose. It's LBJs team and he makes it awkward for the other players. Irving and Thomas left for that reason, and Love should, too.

                                        I completely respect the Cavs, but I'm fading them this series and if they make the finals will fade them again (unless the market stops overrating them, which did just happen with the post-gm 1 series price, but which will probably reverse if Cavs make it to finals).

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                                        • #60
                                          Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                          Kane and Crazy Pete make a good point.

                                          Benching the fouler only makes sense if you think the guy is on tilt or has extra value at the end of close games.

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                                          • #61
                                            Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                            The Celtics will give GS a series, the Cavs will likely get swept, Boston better than Cleveland
                                            All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

                                            Comment


                                            • #62
                                              Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                              Originally posted by kane View Post
                                              The Celtics will give GS a series, the Cavs will likely get swept, Boston better than Cleveland
                                              I'm not willing to say Celts are better, but with HCA, I didn't make them anywhere close to the big dog the market made them vs Cavs. At the very least, I don't think Philly would have been much of a dog to Cavs, and Boston win over them, though apparently completely disrespected by the market, was legit.

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                                              • #63
                                                Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                I'm not willing to say Celts are better, but with HCA, I didn't make them anywhere close to the big dog the market made them vs Cavs. At the very least, I don't think Philly would have been much of a dog to Cavs, and Boston win over them, though apparently completely disrespected by the market, was legit.
                                                Here's why I think Boston is better. Other than LeBron over Morris, Rozier is better than Hill, Brown is better than Korver, Horford is better than Love, and Tatum is better than Smith, the C's have the advantage everywhere on the court except for LeBron. There's also no comparing these teams defensively as Boston has the clear edge there as well, throw in home court and the massive coaching edge, and I'm very comfortable saying Boston is the better team. Now, the better team might not win since the lesser team has LeBron, but unless he plays like Superman I think Boston beats them, LeBron has to be great for his team to win, not the case with Boston as they have multiple guys they rely on.
                                                All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

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                                                • #64
                                                  Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                  You make good points, Kane, although I don't think Horford is inherently better than Love, I think he, playing for Stevens, is better than Love playing with LeBron.

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                                                  • #65
                                                    Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                    Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                    You make good points, Kane, although I don't think Horford is inherently better than Love, I think he, playing for Stevens, is better than Love playing with LeBron.
                                                    When you factor in defense, I think Horford is the clear better player, but if Love is making his three's he closes the gap
                                                    All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #66
                                                      Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                      Originally posted by kane View Post
                                                      Danny Ainge will have an interesting decision next year. The Celtics haven't missed a beat with Irving being out, and given his injury history it wouldn't come as a shock to me if Irving was traded and here's why. Terry Rozier has played out of his mind since Irving went down, but after next season he becomes a free agent and he's shown he's good enough to be a starter, some team will offer him a long term lucrative deal that Boston wouldn't be able to match, so I have a feeling either Irving or Rozier get moved, Ainge can get back more in an Irving trade (possibly Kawhi), or he can flip Rozier for maybe another first round pick. If Ainge thinks the Celtics can win a title, he could keep them both knowing he'll lose Rozier at season's end, but I have a feeling one of them gets moved either in the off season or during the season, either way Danny has some thinking to do, it all depends on how Danny and Brad view Rozier, is this the player they'll have going forward, or is he just in a great zone right now, either way the Celtics have a decision to make regarding this situation

                                                      I think Irving is a Free Agent after Next Year Also.

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                                                      • #67
                                                        Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                        Originally posted by boston massacre View Post
                                                        I think Irving is a Free Agent after Next Year Also.
                                                        Shit, you're right, I forgot about that. Okay, that means there's even less chance of them both coming back, it will be a tough decision, which one to keep. Logic says Irving, but he'll cost more than Rozier and could get back more in a trade, but are they sure Scary Terry will play like this going forward? I have trust Danny will make the right choice.
                                                        All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #68
                                                          Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                          Originally posted by kane View Post
                                                          The Celtics will give GS a series, the Cavs will likely get swept, Boston better than Cleveland
                                                          Have you recently been concussed? On what planet is Boston better than Cleveland?
                                                          Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #69
                                                            Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                            Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                            The whole team ball watches when LeBron is out there, except Korver I suppose. It's LBJs team and he makes it awkward for the other players. Irving and Thomas left for that reason, and Love should, too.

                                                            I completely respect the Cavs, but I'm fading them this series and if they make the finals will fade them again (unless the market stops overrating them, which did just happen with the post-gm 1 series price, but which will probably reverse if Cavs make it to finals).
                                                            Overrating them? They were medium series dogs against Toronto? What are you guys talking about?

                                                            As for Kevin "Robin" Love, he owes his ring to LBJ.
                                                            Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #70
                                                              Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                              Originally posted by GameBred View Post
                                                              Have you recently been concussed? On what planet is Boston better than Cleveland?
                                                              Read my post 63
                                                              All great genius encounters violent opposition from mediocre minds

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #71
                                                                Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                Originally posted by kane View Post
                                                                Read my post 63
                                                                Ok. But Cle has LBJ; he's on the Cavs and he is a force multiplier. This guy lifts everyone around him.

                                                                Please see 7 straight finals w/ 2 different teams.

                                                                Please see him at 22 leading that rag-tag bunch 2007 nobodies to the Finals.

                                                                Please see LBJ getting up 2 to 1 on the Warriors starting next to 4 guys who came off the bench for the majority of their careers.

                                                                Please see LBJ leading this Cavs team to 50 wins this year (1 less than last year) despite there being 3 different iterations of the team.

                                                                He has a good cast around him that played bad in Game 1; it happens. They haven't played much together and they have a shitty coach. He'll download the data and adjust; Stevens isn't the only brilliant mind in this series.
                                                                Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #72
                                                                  Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                  Originally posted by GameBred View Post
                                                                  Overrating them? They were medium series dogs against Toronto? What are you guys talking about?

                                                                  As for Kevin "Robin" Love, he owes his ring to LBJ.
                                                                  I thought they were overpriced in THIS series.

                                                                  I also think the market may be now overreacting after game 1.

                                                                  The old zigzag theory was based on game overreaction. Did Cavs close -2 in game 1? And are now +1? This is classic zigzag opportunity: not an edge arising because the prior game inspires the loser to play harder, but because the market grants extra points to the prior game loser.

                                                                  If you love the Cavs, you should be very happy to bet on the Cavs next game, and Cavs -120 to still win the series. I might make both those bets myself. But that won't mean I changed my mind about the series price before game one being awful.

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                                                                  • #73
                                                                    Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                    Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                                    I thought they were overpriced in THIS series.
                                                                    Fair enough. I retract my indignation.

                                                                    Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                                    I also think the market may be now overreacting after game 1.
                                                                    If the Cavs aren’t favorites in game 2, it is overreacting, IMO.

                                                                    Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                                    The old zigzag theory was based on game overreaction. Did Cavs close -2 in game 1? And are now +1? This is classic zigzag opportunity: not an edge arising because the prior game inspires the loser to play harder, but because the market grants extra points to the prior game loser.
                                                                    I don’t follow NBA markets so I have no idea what they closed/opened at.

                                                                    Originally posted by pokerjoe View Post
                                                                    If you love the Cavs, you should be very happy to bet on the Cavs next game, and Cavs -120 to still win the series. I might make both those bets myself. But that won't mean I changed my mind about the series price before game one being awful.
                                                                    I thought it was awful too; awful low for Boston But hey, that’s what makes a market and I am just eyeballing the price, I’m no expert anymore at pricing up a Series; it’s been many moons.

                                                                    I just saw a bunch of stuff in Game 1 (which Cle was totally unprepared for; thanks Ty) that I am positive the Cavs will pick up on and adjust to. They just have to tweak a few things and not shoot like total shit and they’ll be fine. Boston will make adjustments too but Cle should be ready for any.

                                                                    I mean JFC, Joe, did you notice the Cavs weak-side spacing? It was so fucking poor that 1 C-Defender could guard 2 guys on that side of the floor; absolutely unacceptable and on Ty. If they just improve that, then the C's can load up on all the first actions they want or double LBJ in the post when Morris isn't on him or whatever and they will get picked apart.

                                                                    In general, Stevens did some really cool stuff on D; he's just so impressive. They were clearly out-coached. Don’t get me wrong, the players need to play better, including LBJ but at least they have some film now and there isn't too much more Stevens can do schematically (it’s not like he has an infinite # of coverages/schemes to call upon). They just executed their game plan very well, which Cle was ill-prepared for (once again, great job Ty).
                                                                    Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • #74
                                                                      Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                      Can Celts win a game in Cleveland?

                                                                      In terms of stock, I have to think two things:
                                                                      * UP: Stevens/Ainge
                                                                      * Down: Irving looks expendable, and to lesser extent Hayward.

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                                                                      • #75
                                                                        Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                        LeBron getting old quick

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                                                                        • #76
                                                                          Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                          Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                                          LeBron getting old quick
                                                                          You forgot (sad) lol.

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                                                                          • #77
                                                                            Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                            Originally posted by raycabino View Post
                                                                            You forgot (sad) lol.

                                                                            you are right Ray. Lebron finally going up against a defense in the conference. Indy played well against lebron , Toronto turned into jello by the coach.. no way they were that bad. Now the Cavs are playing the toughest defense of the east and they are short handed from day 1.


                                                                            sad

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                                                                            • #78
                                                                              Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                              Originally posted by MrTop View Post
                                                                              you are right Ray. Lebron finally going up against a defense in the conference. Indy played well against lebron , Toronto turned into jello by the coach.. no way they were that bad. Now the Cavs are playing the toughest defense of the east and they are short handed from day 1.


                                                                              sad
                                                                              That's better lol. I think we are all a little guilty of underestimating Boston. What makes them really tough is their ability to defend multiple positions which allows them to switch off of most picks and not give up a mismatch. All but Rozier have enough size and athleticism to make it a little more difficult on Lebron than he is used to.

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                                                                              • #79
                                                                                Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                                Originally posted by ChuckyG View Post
                                                                                Can Celts win a game in Cleveland?

                                                                                In terms of stock, I have to think two things:
                                                                                * UP: Stevens/Ainge
                                                                                * Down: Irving looks expendable, and to lesser extent Hayward.
                                                                                They better fucking not

                                                                                However, you have Brad Stevens and we don't. But I have the GOAT and #TheFrstCedi and I'll be here until the last dog is hung; our Swan song shall not be sung. Come and get some!!!
                                                                                Men are born for games. Nothing else... the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the pride of victory & the humiliation of defeat; which are themselves sufficient stake... But trial of chance or worth, all games aspire to the condition of war, for here, that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • #80
                                                                                  Re: Another NBA head-scratcher

                                                                                  Celtics have won every home game in the playoffs
                                                                                  Celtics have won every 3rd qtr in the playoffs


                                                                                  1-4 on the road. Still not sure how to feel about the Cavs chances. Sucks we gotta wait til Saturday.

                                                                                  Gonna need the supporting cast to have a few big games like they did that Toronto series.

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