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  • #41
    Re: Belmont thread

    Originally posted by cheapseats View Post
    Anybody here think Bob's other entry was nothing more than a moving screen.

    A moving screen, funny.

    Comment


    • #42
      Re: Belmont thread

      Originally posted by cheapseats View Post
      Anybody here think Bob's other entry was nothing more than a moving screen.
      Seemed like he didn't allow Noble Indy to get in front and set a fast pace first half of the race.

      Comment


      • #43
        Re: Belmont thread

        Originally posted by cheapseats View Post
        Anybody here think Bob's other entry was nothing more than a moving screen.

        http://www.espn.com/horse-racing/sto...ocking-justify

        Comment


        • #44
          Re: Belmont thread

          Even Restoring Hope's owner was not happy with the way his horse was ridden. "I have no earthly idea what Florent was thinking or what his race strategy was," West told the New York Post in an email. "Had I known better, the first eighth of a mile I would have thought it was a quarter-horse race, not the mile-and-a-half Belmont. Maybe the horse was completely out of control and Florent had no choice. I will never know."


          ..
          Originally posted by railbird
          Satan time is short

          Comment


          • #45
            Re: Belmont thread

            The race was rigged. I intimated Baffert's other entry ran a interesting race in a prior post. Also, how about Vino Rosso, the best last quarter stalking? When has Vino only been 2 lengths back around the turn? Completely rigged . So they get their huge stud fees & syndication payday. Isn't that what it's really all about?
            The art of learning is learning who to ignore ~LeAnn Rimes

            Comment


            • #46
              Re: Belmont thread

              Originally posted by Heim View Post
              The race was rigged. I intimated Baffert's other entry ran a interesting race in a prior post. Also, how about Vino Rosso, the best last quarter stalking? When has Vino only been 2 lengths back around the turn? Completely rigged . So they get their huge stud fees & syndication payday. Isn't that what it's really all about?

              Serious charge from a thoughtful contributor.

              Hmmm...

              Comment


              • #47
                Re: Belmont thread

                “Justify is a super horse. He is a Triple Crown winner and he’s undefeated,” said Repole, emphasizing his admiration for the powerful, 6-for-6 colt. “But I can see the stewards looking into this over the next couple of days. I probably expect them to look into reckless riding by Florent and bring him in to question him about what he was thinking and what his tactics were.”

                “It definitely seemed to me he was more of an offensive lineman than a racehorse trying to win the Belmont,” said Repole of 37-1 Restoring Hope, “and Justify was a running back trying to run for a touchdown.”

                Repole said he questioned Javier Castellano on Sunday morning about his failure to follow instructions with Noble Indy. The 24-1 long shot was expected to confront Justify early with the hope of softening him for Vino Rosso’s late kick.

                -Repole in NY POST

                Comment


                • #48
                  Re: Belmont thread

                  What a whiny piece of garbage Repole is. So it’s ok for him to enter a rabbit to change the complex of the race but not ok when someone else does something similar?

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Re: Belmont thread

                    Repole: Stewards, I demand you look at what Florent did in the Belmont
                    Stewards: He rushed near the lead, is this the 1st time you've seen something like this Mr. Repole?
                    Repole: Well, that was my spot. I wanted to rush to the lead.
                    Stewards: I think we're done here.
                    Any contributions greatly appreciated
                    http://fullertoncares.com/
                    http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Belmont thread

                      Let's say for the case of argument there is a modicum of truth here, what prevented Noble Indy from attacking in a 48 half or a 113 6f?. He can't make a move early into those fractions, complete horse shit by Repole.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Re: Belmont thread

                        101 Beyer for Justify. 20 years ago, that might have gotten 6th in a Triple Crown race.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Re: Belmont thread

                          Originally posted by Valuist View Post
                          101 Beyer for Justify. 20 years ago, that might have gotten 6th in a Triple Crown race.
                          Are u saying there's something different in the training for current thoroughbreds?

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Re: Belmont thread

                            Originally posted by Valuist View Post
                            No moment is too big for Smith.
                            Props to Smith + Baffert. Can't say he wasn't the best.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Re: Belmont thread

                              Originally posted by Valuist View Post
                              101 Beyer for Justify. 20 years ago, that might have gotten 6th in a Triple Crown race.

                              Indeed.

                              Justify recorded a 103 Beyer Speed Figure in winning the Kentucky Derby.

                              Par is 108.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Re: Belmont thread

                                Originally posted by John Kelly View Post
                                Indeed.

                                Justify recorded a 103 Beyer Speed Figure in winning the Kentucky Derby.

                                Par is 108.
                                There is not a soul alive that gives an Eff about a Beyer number and wins betting horses.
                                Any contributions greatly appreciated
                                http://fullertoncares.com/
                                http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Re: Belmont thread

                                  I wonder what Patrick had on his internal power ratings for Justify. Critical information.
                                  Any contributions greatly appreciated
                                  http://fullertoncares.com/
                                  http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Re: Belmont thread

                                    Originally posted by 2W2P2S View Post
                                    There is not a soul alive that gives an Eff about a Beyer number and wins betting horses.
                                    It has nothing to do with betting. At this point, do you think this is a great horse? He could become one, but he needs to progress. And lets get this out there: definitely not a good group of 3 year olds.

                                    Let's talk trips: perfect trip after perfect trip. Even if Restoring Hope isn't running interference. I want to see how this horse handles some adversity. We will have to wait on that one.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Re: Belmont thread

                                      Originally posted by Valuist View Post
                                      It has nothing to do with betting. At this point, do you think this is a great horse? He could become one, but he needs to progress. And lets get this out there: definitely not a good group of 3 year olds.

                                      Let's talk trips: perfect trip after perfect trip. Even if Restoring Hope isn't running interference. I want to see how this horse handles some adversity. We will have to wait on that one.

                                      All I heard before the TC Races, this group was lauded as the best crop of 3YO's in decades. They were running numbers higher than any recent crop. Now after a horse wins the TC, they are a weak bunch.
                                      He gets a perfect trip because of his running style, he's got a style that's nearly impossible to get in trouble. He doesn't need the lead, and in fact the day we see a rabbit in front of him is the day we see the "Big Beyer". He toyed with those horses, whenever anybody got close, he ran away from them. You say "perfect trip". How "perfect" was it for the horses that ran on the lead with him? It was suicide for everybody but him. If these trips were perfect for a speed horse, you'd see merry-go-round races. That didn't happen here.

                                      As far as "interference".....Restoring Hope ran about the same (some just faster, some just slower) opening 1/4 that he has in every lifetime race including the PP where he was 8 wide while I guess running interference for another trainer.........and for that matter, he was out of control 7 wide while "rushing to run interference" leaving 4 paths open for any horse that wanted to go after Justify. It was the worst executed means of running interference I have ever seen. If we want to use Repoles example of a running back and a blocker, this blocker ran 30 feet away from the would-be tacklers to protect the runner.

                                      IMO, he's a better horse than American Pharoah right now. And as I mentioned, the race will come where he sits off a rabbit with some quality and runs him down in a very fast time. He doesn't run vs a stopwatch, and l saw a horse take the heart out of any competitor that challenged him inside the 1/4 pole.
                                      Any contributions greatly appreciated
                                      http://fullertoncares.com/
                                      http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Re: Belmont thread

                                        Originally posted by 2W2P2S View Post
                                        There is not a soul alive that gives an Eff about a Beyer number and wins betting horses.

                                        Simply using Beyer Speed Figures to compare horses that competed over different decades.

                                        Never said anything about betting the horses.

                                        I'm still steamed I didn't secure 40-1 or 60-1 (Wynn Las Vegas) on Justify to win the Triple Crown.

                                        I thought about it.

                                        A $2 win parlay on Justify covering all three Triple Crown races returned less than $20.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Re: Belmont thread

                                          Originally posted by John Kelly View Post
                                          Simply using Beyer Speed Figures to compare horses that competed over different decades.
                                          Why?
                                          Any contributions greatly appreciated
                                          http://fullertoncares.com/
                                          http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                                          Comment


                                          • #61
                                            Re: Belmont thread

                                            Originally posted by 2W2P2S View Post
                                            Why?

                                            No access to Ragozin numbers.

                                            Comment


                                            • #62
                                              Re: Belmont thread

                                              Originally posted by John Kelly View Post
                                              No access to Ragozin numbers.
                                              Well played.
                                              Any contributions greatly appreciated
                                              http://fullertoncares.com/
                                              http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                                              Comment


                                              • #63
                                                Re: Belmont thread

                                                Originally posted by 2W2P2S View Post
                                                All I heard before the TC Races, this group was lauded as the best crop of 3YO's in decades. They were running numbers higher than any recent crop. Now after a horse wins the TC, they are a weak bunch.
                                                He gets a perfect trip because of his running style, he's got a style that's nearly impossible to get in trouble. He doesn't need the lead, and in fact the day we see a rabbit in front of him is the day we see the "Big Beyer". He toyed with those horses, whenever anybody got close, he ran away from them. You say "perfect trip". How "perfect" was it for the horses that ran on the lead with him? It was suicide for everybody but him. If these trips were perfect for a speed horse, you'd see merry-go-round races. That didn't happen here.

                                                As far as "interference".....Restoring Hope ran about the same (some just faster, some just slower) opening 1/4 that he has in every lifetime race including the PP where he was 8 wide while I guess running interference for another trainer.........and for that matter, he was out of control 7 wide while "rushing to run interference" leaving 4 paths open for any horse that wanted to go after Justify. It was the worst executed means of running interference I have ever seen. If we want to use Repoles example of a running back and a blocker, this blocker ran 30 feet away from the would-be tacklers to protect the runner.

                                                IMO, he's a better horse than American Pharoah right now. And as I mentioned, the race will come where he sits off a rabbit with some quality and runs him down in a very fast time. He doesn't run vs a stopwatch, and l saw a horse take the heart out of any competitor that challenged him inside the 1/4 pole.
                                                Who was lauding them? Those lauding them were just used to seeing a number of weak 3 year old crops, which we've seen most years in the past decade. I would consider the Street Sense/Curlin/Hard Spun as the best group in the past 10-11 years. The top 2 from the SA Derby looked legit, and one ran to it and the other didn't. The Florida Derby was overrated, as a very fast pace fell apart, making Audible and Hofberg look better than their performances were. Nobody liked Magnum Moon's win in the Ark Derby. Good Magic's Blue Grass was panned by most; if anyone other than Chad Brown had been training Good Magic, he would've been dismissed. Vino Rosso ran a decent race in the Wood but his mediocre races at Tampa made him hard to take seriously.

                                                The irony is Baffert has two Triple Crown winners in the past 4 years but the best 3 YO in that period was a colt who was trained by Baffert but didn't win the Triple Crown. That would be Arrogate.

                                                Comment


                                                • #64
                                                  Re: Belmont thread

                                                  Originally posted by Valuist View Post
                                                  Who was lauding them? Those lauding them were just used to seeing a number of weak 3 year old crops, which we've seen most years in the past decade. I would consider the Street Sense/Curlin/Hard Spun as the best group in the past 10-11 years. The top 2 from the SA Derby looked legit, and one ran to it and the other didn't. The Florida Derby was overrated, as a very fast pace fell apart, making Audible and Hofberg look better than their performances were. Nobody liked Magnum Moon's win in the Ark Derby. Good Magic's Blue Grass was panned by most; if anyone other than Chad Brown had been training Good Magic, he would've been dismissed.

                                                  The irony is Baffert has two Triple Crown winners in the past 4 years but the best 3 YO in that period was a colt who was trained by Baffert but didn't win the Triple Crown. That would be Arrogate.
                                                  I agree with all of that. But I don't think that takes away from the greatness of Justify. Could any of those horses do what he did running his maiden race in mid-February? We'll obviously never know, but I would think no.

                                                  I listen to the horse racing shows every weekend morning, and read some of the message boards and the popular sentiment I heard time and time again was this was the best group of 3YO's in some time. I don't spend much time even thinking about things like that, but to me it was a dominant theme. And yes, JK, that was even coming from Hardoon.

                                                  I could be wrong, but I'll be very surprised if he doesn't do something stunning in a race later this year. And as far as the hopes of promoting the sport, I hope I'm correct.
                                                  Any contributions greatly appreciated
                                                  http://fullertoncares.com/
                                                  http://www.sctbrescue.org/

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #65
                                                    Re: Belmont thread

                                                    Originally posted by 2W2P2S View Post
                                                    I agree with all of that. But I don't think that takes away from the greatness of Justify. Could any of those horses do what he did running his maiden race in mid-February? We'll obviously never know, but I would think no.

                                                    I listen to the horse racing shows every weekend morning, and read some of the message boards and the popular sentiment I heard time and time again was this was the best group of 3YO's in some time. I don't spend much time even thinking about things like that, but to me it was a dominant theme. And yes, JK, that was even coming from Hardoon.

                                                    I could be wrong, but I'll be very surprised if he doesn't do something stunning in a race later this year. And as far as the hopes of promoting the sport, I hope I'm correct.
                                                    The accomplishment was great, I don't doubt that. Never having run until February 18 and then winning the Triple Crown is amazing, even if I feel the crop wasn't strong.

                                                    Hopefully he will be at his peak for the BC Classic. It's possible he will continue to develop and add muscle and eventually be able to take down the top older horses.

                                                    I see where Baffert said after the DWC in 2017 that Arrogate was the best horse since Secretariat. I'm not as sure of that but I do think he was the best dirt horse of the 21st Century, probably with Ghostzapper second.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #66
                                                      Re: Belmont thread

                                                      Originally posted by 2W2P2S View Post
                                                      I wonder what Patrick had on his internal power ratings for Justify. Critical information.
                                                      I attened the Friday Belmont seminar. He did quote that saying "internal power rating." Claimed to be killing it at Belmont + Santa Anita.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #67
                                                        Re: Belmont thread

                                                        Originally posted by ChuckyG View Post
                                                        I attened the Friday Belmont seminar. He did quote that saying "internal power rating." Claimed to be killing it at Belmont + Santa Anita.
                                                        he "claims" a lots of nonsense

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #68
                                                          Re: Belmont thread

                                                          Belmont r4 today.

                                                          Originally a 13 horse field, 12 ran, as the outside horse (which had no shot anyway) was scratched.

                                                          Look at the horrible morning line here:

                                                          3 SPONTANEOUS Luis Saez Joe Sharp 20/1 4
                                                          Originally posted by railbird
                                                          Satan time is short

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #69
                                                            Re: Belmont thread

                                                            saw a 10-1 ML at Haydock today go off 4 to 5 and win by 4

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #70
                                                              Re: Belmont thread

                                                              The best North American racehorse in the last 25-30 years is Ghostzapper and it is not even close.
                                                              beat you with either speed or a closing kick. When other horses look him in the eye, he would get to
                                                              the wire first as the true alpha, and finally he had the on paper speed figures to prove his greatness.

                                                              P.S heard andrew beyer speak this week, and said

                                                              "he had hoped justify numbers would increase and prove being a great horse but it was not to be"
                                                              he said "if you hear anybody mention justify as one of the greats, please slap that person"

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #71
                                                                Re: Belmont thread

                                                                Originally posted by raininthrees View Post
                                                                The best North American racehorse in the last 25-30 years is Ghostzapper and it is not even close.
                                                                beat you with either speed or a closing kick. When other horses look him in the eye, he would get to
                                                                the wire first as the true alpha, and finally he had the on paper speed figures to prove his greatness.

                                                                P.S heard andrew beyer speak this week, and said

                                                                "he had hoped justify numbers would increase and prove being a great horse but it was not to be"
                                                                he said "if you hear anybody mention justify as one of the greats, please slap that person"
                                                                I said earlier in the thread that Ghostzapper was the second best dirt horse of the 21st century. The best? That would be Arrogate, who pulled off the impressive double of running down a loose on the lead California Chrome in the Breeders Cup Classic, then followed it up with a win in Dubai in which he broke poorly, raced wide on both turns, then easily ran down Gun Runner, who would win the BC Classic later that year. Ghostzapper was very impressive, but beating Roses in May just wasn't like beating either Chrome or Gun Runner.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #72
                                                                  Re: Belmont thread

                                                                  complete race horses can do it all, distances be damned and for a sustained period of excellence
                                                                  Arrogate put up some all time numbers for the same period of time Jeremy Lin was rocking
                                                                  Madison Square Garden.

                                                                  Bob Baffert shows some sick results for these horses for a short period, and to me it is very very suspect

                                                                  Big time wins and then horses fall of the cliff.

                                                                  Bayern, Arrogate, Dortmund, then last year American Anthem and Mor Spirit and where is
                                                                  Drefong and American Freedom who ran second to Arrogate in Travers, just too suspect for
                                                                  me of what is reality and what is fugazzi.

                                                                  all ghostzapper did was show up and produce, proving of a long period of time as the best/most complete thoroughbred

                                                                  http://helloracefans.com/pdfs/lifeti...hostzapper.pdf

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #73
                                                                    Re: Belmont thread

                                                                    Originally posted by trytrytry View Post
                                                                    saw a 10-1 ML at Haydock today go off 4 to 5 and win by 4
                                                                    more common at the small tracks

                                                                    at the big tracks they're expected to have a competent linemaker


                                                                    As for Justify, I don't think he is an all-time great horse.

                                                                    Several horses in the past 20 years that didn't win the TC were superior.
                                                                    Originally posted by railbird
                                                                    Satan time is short

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • #74
                                                                      Re: Belmont thread

                                                                      with seasoning hoping he can awe this fall, gonna have to run shade under 120 end of the summer into fall
                                                                      we shall see, if he smacks these, boy do I wish gun runner held on for one run between these two

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • #75
                                                                        Re: Belmont thread

                                                                        Stewards might just conclude that Geroux sucks, like I concluded four years ago.

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