Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

[kinosh]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

pioneer,

For the most part, I am pro-life...

However, if a woman gets RAPED, I believe she has every right to CHOOSE whether or not she WANTS the baby..

MEANING- NOT having our GOVERNMENT decide what she can or cannot do in such PERSONAL and SENSITIVE cases such as these...

And politics aside, if it were YOU who was the woman raped, I wonder whether you'd like the government to choose for you?

P.S.

What's your position on stem cell research vs. having more children killed and spending even more money on this war in Iraq?

Great point, Shrink. Pioneer is not considered "intelligent life," so don't expect him to come up with a reply that makes any sense.

 

[Tamer]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

pioneer,

For the most part, I am pro-life...

However, if a woman gets RAPED, I believe she has every right to CHOOSE whether or not she WANTS the baby..

MEANING- NOT having our GOVERNMENT decide what she can or cannot do in such PERSONAL and SENSITIVE cases such as these...

And politics aside, if it were YOU who was the woman raped, I wonder whether you'd like the government to choose for you?

P.S.

What's your position on stem cell research vs. having more children killed and spending even more money on this war in Iraq?

I knew someone would bring this point up....the idea of abortion being ok if it was the result of a rape victim. Just doesnt make any sense to me. how can you place value on 1 life over another? I would also have to say that ALL abortion cases are personal and sensitive, not just rape victims. If you see abortion as wrong, then I do not understand how one could argue that well its okay when......

 

[pioneer]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

pioneer,

For the most part, I am pro-life...

However, if a woman gets RAPED, I believe she has every right to CHOOSE whether or not she WANTS the baby..

MEANING- NOT having our GOVERNMENT decide what she can or cannot do in such PERSONAL and SENSITIVE cases such as these...

And politics aside, if it were YOU who was the woman raped, I wonder whether you'd like the government to choose for you?

P.S.

What's your position on stem cell research vs. having more children killed and spending even more money on this war in Iraq?

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Shrink. Tamer has already given the pro-life response so i don't need to repeat it. As you are probably aware, Shrink, there are approximately 1.5 million abortions performed in this country every year and less than 0.01% of them are the result of rape. So while I agree with Tamer that abortion in that case is still morally wrong, I sure as hell would support a law only allowing abortion in the case of rape, incest, or health of the mother exceptions.

My position on stem cell research is that I am in favor of adult stem cell research(which is where all the recent promising developments have occurred) and in favor of the research on the embryonic stem cell lines designated in 2001 I believe, but I am opposed to new embryonic stem cell research(which I believe is the standard pro-life position).

I don't understand what you mean in your last clause, ie. "vs. having more children killed and spending even more money on this war in Iraq?" Of course I'm opposed to having more children killed and also of course I'm in favor of spending the least amount of money possible, but also as much as necessary in order to complete the task of winning the war in Iraq.

ps. to kinosh: You're a complete idiot...stay out of the adult threads!

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

All humans are sinners and will doom the planet eventually.....even without George Bush.....we ALL should have been aborted......then, leave the planet to the animals.....PARTY ON DUDES!:+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6

 

[kinosh]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

...are you pro-life or pro-abortion?

God, this is a such a stupid question. Pro-lifers argue that abortion is never an option, which means the "pro-abortion group" would argue that life is never an option. If you're pro-abortion, and a woman says she is going to have the baby, do you force an abortion? Or stand on a pedestal and chant "Kill all unborn fetuses?" Pioneer has his head up his ass. Pro-choice means a woman can have an abortion IF SHE CHOOSES or have the baby IF SHE CHOOSES. If she chooses to have the baby, wouldn't she get support from both the pro-life and pro-choice groups, leaving the "pro-abortion group" outside chanting?

 

[PO69]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I hate to say it, but I am still voting republican today. Hell outlawing internet gambling might actually be a good thing for me! I end up losing the money that I make in Live poker on internet poker anyway!

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

The Anti-Choice crowd is very difficult to reason with.....there's like a billion needy kids in the world......starving and in dire straits.....and they'll still insist that they are correct.......kind of reminds you of trying to debate anybody that has been brainwashed into any faith.....very difficult to debate with zealots of any persuasion.

 

[pioneer]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by pioneer
...are you pro-life or pro-abortion?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
God, this is a such a stupid question. Pro-lifers argue that abortion is never an option, which means the "pro-abortion group" would argue that life is never an option. If you're pro-abortion, and a woman says she is going to have the baby, do you force an abortion? Or stand on a pedestal and chant "Kill all unborn fetuses?" Pioneer has his head up his ass. Pro-choice means a woman can have an abortion IF SHE CHOOSES or have the baby IF SHE CHOOSES. If she chooses to have the baby, wouldn't she get support from both the pro-life and pro-choice groups, leaving the "pro-abortion group" outside chanting?

Kinosh,
What you mean by "this is such a stupid question" is that you don't want to answer it. You want to declare yourself as pro-choice and I've already told you that everyone, including God, is pro-choice, that's why He gave us free will. You and I and everyone else in this generation has a choice to make; do you choose life, or do you choose abortion(death)?
So let me repeat, Kinosh, are you pro-life or are you pro-abortion?

 

[THE SHRINK]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Shrink. Tamer has already given the pro-life response so i don't need to repeat it. As you are probably aware, Shrink, there are approximately 1.5 million abortions performed in this country every year and less than 0.01% of them are the result of rape. So while I agree with Tamer that abortion in that case is still morally wrong, I sure as hell would support a law only allowing abortion in the case of rape, incest, or health of the mother exceptions.

My position on stem cell research is that I am in favor of adult stem cell research(which is where all the recent promising developments have occurred) and in favor of the research on the embryonic stem cell lines designated in 2001 I believe, but I am opposed to new embryonic stem cell research(which I believe is the standard pro-life position).

I don't understand what you mean in your last clause, ie. "vs. having more children killed and spending even more money on this war in Iraq?" Of course I'm opposed to having more children killed and also of course I'm in favor of spending the least amount of money possible, but also as much as necessary in order to complete the task of winning the war in Iraq.

ps. to kinosh: You're a complete idiot...stay out of the adult threads!

pioneer,

1-Why are we fighting this war in Iraq?

2-Please define what constitutes us winning this War?

3-Were you around during Viet Nam?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Alan]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I hate to say it, but I am still voting republican today. Hell outlawing internet gambling might actually be a good thing for me! I end up losing the money that I make in Live poker on internet poker anyway!

I joined you in voting Republican. Shrink wants thoses with a Brain to read the message.

My message --- my taxes will go up more than most win sports betting if Bush's tax cut is not extended. I paid a large sum in death tax that the democrats want to return to old levels.

Thanks Shrink but I got this far without your help ---- hopefully I can make it a little further on my own.

Tax the rich is the Charlie Rangels and Nancey pelosi's positions --- unfortunately if you have a job they consider you rich. Vote Democratic and send you money to Washington for redistribution.



Alan

 

[wrigley]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

pioneer,

1-Why are we fighting this war in Iraq?

2-Please define what constitutes us winning this War?

3-Were you around during Viet Nam?

Thanks,
Ken

I doubt pioneer can answer these since no one in the Bush administration has a decent answer these days.

I thought it was because Iraq had WMD...Have we found any yet and when the Hell is Bush going to catch Bin Laden the man who inflicted the damage to us on 911..

He has had over 5 years to get Bin Laden and has yet to do so.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by pioneer
...are you pro-life or pro-abortion?

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Kinosh,
What you mean by "this is such a stupid question" is that you don't want to answer it. You want to declare yourself as pro-choice and I've already told you that everyone, including God, is pro-choice, that's why He gave us free will. You and I and everyone else in this generation has a choice to make; do you choose life, or do you choose abortion(death)?
So let me repeat, Kinosh, are you pro-life or are you pro-abortion?

Don't know about Kinosh...but I am definitely pro-abortion. If you really love your children and want to make sure that none of them do not follow the true path of God, you abort them. This way you assure your children automatically go to heaven to be with God and will never, ever have the chance to choose satan over God. This is the only way you can guarantee your offspring will go to heaven.

 

[THE SHRINK]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I joined you in voting Republican. Shrink wants thoses with a Brain to read the message.

My message --- my taxes will go up more than most win sports betting if Bush's tax cut is not extended. I paid a large sum in death tax that the democrats want to return to old levels.

Thanks Shrink but I got this far without your help ---- hopefully I can make it a little further on my own.

Tax the rich is the Charlie Rangels and Nancey pelosi's positions --- unfortunately if you have a job they consider you rich. Vote Democratic and send you money to Washington for redistribution.



Alan

Alan,

It was not my intention to offend anyone with the title of this thread...

 

[kinosh]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by pioneer
...are you pro-life or pro-abortion?

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
God, this is a such a stupid question. Pro-lifers argue that abortion is never an option, which means the "pro-abortion group" would argue that life is never an option. If you're pro-abortion, and a woman says she is going to have the baby, do you force an abortion? Or stand on a pedestal and chant "Kill all unborn fetuses?" Pioneer has his head up his ass. Pro-choice means a woman can have an abortion IF SHE CHOOSES or have the baby IF SHE CHOOSES. If she chooses to have the baby, wouldn't she get support from both the pro-life and pro-choice groups, leaving the "pro-abortion group" outside chanting?

Kinosh,
What you mean by "this is such a stupid question" is that you don't want to answer it. You want to declare yourself as pro-choice and I've already told you that everyone, including God, is pro-choice, that's why He gave us free will. You and I and everyone else in this generation has a choice to make; do you choose life, or do you choose abortion(death)?
So let me repeat, Kinosh, are you pro-life or are you pro-abortion?

I am pro-life for my own progeny and would never abort them, and pro-abortion for the unfortunate women who are victims of rape, incest, and whatever reasons they choose to abort.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I am pro-life for my own progeny and would never abort them, and pro-abortion for the unfortunate women who are victims of rape, incest, and whatever reasons they choose to abort.

Wow....that's a very concise and eloquent statement that everyone should emulate in their lives. Well said Kinosh!:cheers

 

[pioneer]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

Wow....that's a very concise and eloquent statement that everyone should emulate in their lives. Well said Kinosh!:cheers

ZZ,
You're amazing, and truly the king of the idiots! Eloquence? Well said indeed, Kinosh. What Kinosh has just said is it's alright with him if your mom, ZZ, would have aborted you for whatever reason she may have had. At least Kinosh is honest enough to admit that he is an evil person. He values his life and his progeny but he places no value on other lives; they may be killed for whatever reason whatsoever. It's truly amazing what people will admit to on an internet forum.

 

[Alan]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

Alan,

It was not my intention to offend anyone with the title of this thread...

Nor mine -- I was not offended, just exercising my perrogative to disagree.

 

[Tamer]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

pioneer,

1-Why are we fighting this war in Iraq?

2-Please define what constitutes us winning this War?

3-Were you around during Viet Nam?

Thanks,
Ken

1---Who here disagrees that Sadam Hussein needed to put brought to justice and removed from power? With or without WMD...he is an evil person that killed thousands of innocent people. Couple that with a surely resonable expectation that he had his hands on WMDs is enough for me to consider the war a just cause.

2--You never know what will happen until after the fact. Civil unrest in Iraq is not something that was planned for, but was a result of the war. Pulling out before order is restored would be considered quiting on the efforts of those that have already died fighting the war and all efforts to bring peace to a country that was under a dictatorship. Relating it to sports, for you MOnday morning Quarterbacks, noone knew going in what this war would bring, but everyone understood that Saddam was an evil man that could very well have his hands on WMDs, and even if not, he still murdered thousands of innocent iraqies. Very easy to sit back a year later and say, well where are the WMDs, we never had proof why did we do this....etc. Given the circumstances back then, he needed to be removed from power one way or another and the majority of Iraqies know that.

3--Does that have any bearing on anything? 2 different wars, reasons and time frames.

 

[Roc]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

thanks for the reminder-
Me and momma just finished voting (she had 5 votes)
We split them between Joey and Emmitt.
No votes here for dimpleface.
GL

 

[Cee]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

PA knows how to vote atleast

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

ZZ,
You're amazing, and truly the king of the idiots! Eloquence? Well said indeed, Kinosh. What Kinosh has just said is it's alright with him if your mom, ZZ, would have aborted you for whatever reason she may have had. At least Kinosh is honest enough to admit that he is an evil person. He values his life and his progeny but he places no value on other lives; they may be killed for whatever reason whatsoever. It's truly amazing what people will admit to on an internet forum.

Thank You, you may address me as King ZZ!:+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

ZZ,
You're amazing, and truly the king of the idiots! Eloquence? Well said indeed, Kinosh. What Kinosh has just said is it's alright with him if your mom, ZZ, would have aborted you for whatever reason she may have had. At least Kinosh is honest enough to admit that he is an evil person. He values his life and his progeny but he places no value on other lives; they may be killed for whatever reason whatsoever. It's truly amazing what people will admit to on an internet forum.

Since you're the pro-life expert I'll ask you.....if good ole Mom had aborted me....wouldn't I have no chance at all right now of going to Hell? Whereas by giving birth to me, I've got a pretty good chance of going to Hell...if you are correct. So, wouldn't I have been better off if I had been aborted? And, no need to rush your heartfelt apology for being wrong.....don't worry....I've been wrong before.....once or twice.....LOL.:+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

1---Who here disagrees that Sadam Hussein needed to put brought to justice and removed from power? With or without WMD...he is an evil person that killed thousands of innocent people. Couple that with a surely resonable expectation that he had his hands on WMDs is enough for me to consider the war a just cause.

2--You never know what will happen until after the fact. Civil unrest in Iraq is not something that was planned for, but was a result of the war. Pulling out before order is restored would be considered quiting on the efforts of those that have already died fighting the war and all efforts to bring peace to a country that was under a dictatorship. Relating it to sports, for you MOnday morning Quarterbacks, noone knew going in what this war would bring, but everyone understood that Saddam was an evil man that could very well have his hands on WMDs, and even if not, he still murdered thousands of innocent iraqies. Very easy to sit back a year later and say, well where are the WMDs, we never had proof why did we do this....etc. Given the circumstances back then, he needed to be removed from power one way or another and the majority of Iraqies know that.

3--Does that have any bearing on anything? 2 different wars, reasons and time frames.

1) Most US people and people in Iraq and around the world would say the same things about George Bush.

2) By the US creating a clusterfuck after we won the war in Iraq is no reason to get one more good man or woman killed.....because we are stubborn....just pull these heros out NOW.....and save one more family from grieving for nothing.....real simple.

3) The Iraqi Occupation is very dissimiliar to VietNam because we never WON the VietNam War, unlike the Iraqi War, which we won easily. It's the nation-building part that has gotten so many good men and women killed....for nothing. Truly sad how morally lacking people who will not open up their eyes to see the truth, keep this evil man in power....our own WMD we call our President....(Not my words....I borrowed them from Marshall Mathers.)

Have A Great Night and Enjoy the stalemate in Congress now that the Senate remains in the control of the Carpetbaggers.

P.S. Sorry Shrink....I was hoping you all could pull it off....even though I doubted you could....Nice Try and Good Night My Friend.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I guess Pioneer had no response.....that's okay....it's not easy admitting you are wrong......I had to join the Service before I learned to admit I was wrong....and to apologize.

 

[pioneer]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

"Since you're the pro-life expert I'll ask you.....if good ole Mom had aborted me....wouldn't I have no chance at all right now of going to Hell? Whereas by giving birth to me, I've got a pretty good chance of going to Hell...if you are correct. So, wouldn't I have been better off if I had been aborted? And, no need to rush your heartfelt apology for being wrong.....don't worry....I've been wrong before.....once or twice.....LOL"

King ZZ,
I apologize...you're right, you should have been aborted!

 

[The General]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

1---Who here disagrees that Sadam Hussein needed to put brought to justice and removed from power? With or without WMD...he is an evil person that killed thousands of innocent people. Couple that with a surely resonable expectation that he had his hands on WMDs is enough for me to consider the war a just cause.

Saddam should have been handled via special ops training and not by occupation, allowing for this....

<TABLE id=Table6 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=300 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: </TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>2832</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> and approx: 45,000 NON-MORTAL CASUALTIES



:whatever:

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

"Since you're the pro-life expert I'll ask you.....if good ole Mom had aborted me....wouldn't I have no chance at all right now of going to Hell? Whereas by giving birth to me, I've got a pretty good chance of going to Hell...if you are correct. So, wouldn't I have been better off if I had been aborted? And, no need to rush your heartfelt apology for being wrong.....don't worry....I've been wrong before.....once or twice.....LOL"

King ZZ,
I apologize...you're right, you should have been aborted!

See, now that wasn't so bad to admit you were wrong and apologize. :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6

P.S. Way to go General....you definitely DA MAN!:+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6 :+music1-6

 

[world traveler]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

my 2 cents
abortion to each his own.
Pulling out of iraq today and saying to hell with them will casue same regional turmoil that happened in south east asia after the us left vietnam to the commies, another Khmer Rouge will pop up and decades of unstabilaty will follow. While its hard to be happy with the Iraqi situation but throwing your hands up in the air and leaving it the way it is is not the answer.

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

my 2 cents
abortion to each his own.
Pulling out of iraq today and saying to hell with them will casue same regional turmoil that happened in south east asia after the us left vietnam to the commies, another Khmer Rouge will pop up and decades of unstabilaty will follow. While its hard to be happy with the Iraqi situation but throwing your hands up in the air and leaving it the way it is is not the answer.

And leaving our troops over there jacking off waiting to get killed while George Bush's pals get rich is the answer? I don't think so. Get em out now and save as many as possible.

 

[Omnipotent Frog]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I hate to dismiss the prochoice argument as close to irrelevant as you can get this election but it seems to be a real backburner issue. The first and foremost, Iraq.

Yes, Iraq, the home of Saddam Hitler. Boy what a troublemaker he was. But you know what? We could have taken him out during the first war, when he invaded Kuwait, and the world would have patted us on the back. Now, the WOMD fabrication to enhance our war reconstruction was a world alienator. It is so transparent to everyone that you will see that single issue dredged up, and fingers will point at the guilty few. The current regime will say faulty intelligence and shrug there shoulders, but talk of congressional hearings has already started now that the demos have got the house.

This was nothing close to protecting our liberties, to defend our territories or to rid the world of a despicable tyrant, it was to enrich war profiteers. And the true lack of foresight got us sucked into a civil war with three participants, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the Kurds, who have hated and fought each other before America was even a country. Afghanistan, even worse. A clan country for centuries. The American people have seen enough of this costly dog and pony show to pull the plug on the production. We are bankrupting our children's futures for corporations that would throw us under the bus the first chance they got. We are losing hundreds of lives a month for a result that may never happen. Our current leadership walked us into a tar baby under false premises, and it is costing us trillions. If there was one single issue anyone will say polarized the nation against our current dishonest and feeble minded leadership it is Iraq. Not abortion rights, not gambling, not immigration.

I watched a concession speech by one of the incumbent Republicans last night. He could not distance himself from GDub. He came out and said that, indirectly, but said it anyway. He wanted us to listen to him and his stands on all of the issues. The American public has grown tired of being lied to. Tired of leadership that leads us down the toilet. They won't even listen anymore. Try talking to anyone in the Pat Tillman family. See what they have to say. They voted time for a change. I saw this coming many moons ago. Very similar to Carter years. His stewardship got the demos out of power across the board.

Our current leadership has become mere puppets for the religious right wingnuts and war profiteer corporations. It does not represent us, in fact, it is against us and our best interests. They have such a narrow following, and even worse performance that even fence sitters went strictly demo, even voting out demo incumbents friendly to the republicans. I know we would all like to think this was a vote for gambling, but I actually believe it was a vote to stop the incompetent leadership from doing what the special interest groups told them to do instead of acting for the people.

OF...:+peeing-2

 

[ZZ CREAM]

Re: Important Message Inside for those with a Brain!!!

I hate to dismiss the prochoice argument as close to irrelevant as you can get this election but it seems to be a real backburner issue. The first and foremost, Iraq.

Yes, Iraq, the home of Saddam Hitler. Boy what a troublemaker he was. But you know what? We could have taken him out during the first war, when he invaded Kuwait, and the world would have patted us on the back. Now, the WOMD fabrication to enhance our war reconstruction was a world alienator. It is so transparent to everyone that you will see that single issue dredged up, and fingers will point at the guilty few. The current regime will say faulty intelligence and shrug there shoulders, but talk of congressional hearings has already started now that the demos have got the house.

This was nothing close to protecting our liberties, to defend our territories or to rid the world of a despicable tyrant, it was to enrich war profiteers. And the true lack of foresight got us sucked into a civil war with three participants, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the Kurds, who have hated and fought each other before America was even a country. Afghanistan, even worse. A clan country for centuries. The American people have seen enough of this costly dog and pony show to pull the plug on the production. We are bankrupting our children's futures for corporations that would throw us under the bus the first chance they got. We are losing hundreds of lives a month for a result that may never happen. Our current leadership walked us into a tar baby under false premises, and it is costing us trillions. If there was one single issue anyone will say polarized the nation against our current dishonest and feeble minded leadership it is Iraq. Not abortion rights, not gambling, not immigration.

I watched a concession speech by one of the incumbent Republicans last night. He could not distance himself from GDub. He came out and said that, indirectly, but said it anyway. He wanted us to listen to him and his stands on all of the issues. The American public has grown tired of being lied to. Tired of leadership that leads us down the toilet. They won't even listen anymore. Try talking to anyone in the Pat Tillman family. See what they have to say. They voted time for a change. I saw this coming many moons ago. Very similar to Carter years. His stewardship got the demos out of power across the board.

Our current leadership has become mere puppets for the religious right wingnuts and war profiteer corporations. It does not represent us, in fact, it is against us and our best interests. They have such a narrow following, and even worse performance that even fence sitters went strictly demo, even voting out demo incumbents friendly to the republicans. I know we would all like to think this was a vote for gambling, but I actually believe it was a vote to stop the incompetent leadership from doing what the special interest groups told them to do instead of acting for the people.

OF...:+peeing-2

Very well said Froggie!:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup