Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans



March 2, 2007

Once you leave the U.S. the situation becomes rather clear and quite depressing. The rest of the world is full of potential and opportunity when it comes to online gambling. New choices and options merely await implementation in this business which seemingly changes every six months. The U.S. once held all the cards in this market, but has been forced to fold.

So it goes for Americans caught up in the high-stakes game we call the online gambling industry. Spending time in Macau, the new king of gambling, made me almost too depressed to think about the future. The American government has succeeded in scaring away the majority of the industry from even contemplating a future which includes us.

Everyone knows online gambling won't completely turn its back on Americans, but we won't be at the forefront. The newest and best options will pass us by. The newest wrinkles and twists on betting will only come to us second-hand. Worst of all, the endless opportunities for jobs and taxes will instead go to people in Malta, the Philippines, or any of a number of countries embracing the industry.

America is so fat and rich it turns its back on high-paying jobs in a quickly growing technology sector. Other countries are fighting to create loopholes and tax breaks that send out a red carpet for this nascent industry which merely serves burgeoning demand. Even China, not exactly a beacon of freedom of choice, grudgingly accepts they must allow some online gambling or face it being an essentially uncontrolled industry.

American policy makers and law enforcement somehow believe they can do what even tightly controlled China cannot. People will gamble and won't accept theoretical limits on how they can do it. While its clear the wish to keep these activities an American endeavor on U.S. soil drives these misguided efforts, the rest of the world is going in a completely opposite direction. Many influential companies have just throw their hands in the air and stated they will just serve the willing and leave Americans to their folly.

Sadly we must accept the fact that while most of us crave the biggest and best action, it won't be seen on our shores first. Just a year ago only a fool in this industry would have thought anything of a business plan where the best ideas and investments ignored the American market. Asia still has virtually no legal online gambling and many European countries are saturated in it.

So thank Congress and Bill Frist for sending us all into a state of pointless decay. Yes slightly fewer people might gamble online, but how do we as a society win from this? Money not wagered online still tends to find a way into action. The gambling activities are rarely subverted in whole. Besides last time I checked Americans are not lacking in frivolous or downright dumb ways to spend their money.

Many of these ways to spend money increasingly support lower paid service jobs and areas with little American value added. Shopping to your heart's content and buying made in China products does a lot less good than products designed by Americans, sold by Americans, and taxed by Americans. Instead some young Filipino will double his earnings opportunity just because he speaks English, while some potential American sportsbook employee will have to continue to compete against an outsourced Indian or Chinese resource.

Even worse Americans are in the vanguard of these efforts and could be selling ideas and taking countless bets from foreign lands. You would think lawmakers would realize attempting to stop unstoppable forces only means wasted opportunities. Maybe instead of listening to religious groups tell them what harm online betting does to society, our lawmakers should take a tour of an international book to see there really are winners when this industry operates within reasonable guidelines.

-- Wild Bill (EOG.com)
 

The Devil

EOG Master
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

WELL WRITTEN BILL..........JUST LIKE PROHIBITION, THE MORE THEY SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT, THE MORE THEY WILL DO IT.......
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

From all perspectives about online gambling.

Where does the US rank amoung the top 5 most industrial nations of the world (or amoung the 5 most populated nations of the world)?

I want to see both or all sides of the question about this. I know the UK, costa Rica and several small nations Antigua, etc. allow it. But want to open my mind about the question.

Really hope for some educated responses.
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Good Article Bill...
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

It's all about taxes. In Sweden no other company except " Svenska Spel" are allowed to take sportsbet. The company (owned by the state) in return gave over 1 billion to the state...
If you have a system like UK (lots of bookies) there should be better for the player, better lines etc but the money floating in to the state would not be as high.
As long as the cash is coming in, no one from the goverment wants to talk about it. Players screaming about monopoly but the goverment don't give a f**k about that. Then there is another story that the swedish people are one of the most internet betting people in the world...:)
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

It's all about taxes. In Sweden no other company except " Svenska Spel" are allowed to take sportsbet. The company (owned by the state) in return gave over 1 billion to the state...
If you have a system like UK (lots of bookies) there should be better for the player, better lines etc but the money floating in to the state would not be as high.
As long as the cash is coming in, no one from the goverment wants to talk about it. Players screaming about monopoly but the goverment don't give a f**k about that. Then there is another story that the swedish people are one of the most internet betting people in the world...:)

You talk about Sweden and that is a fascinating country to me and lots of others.
But I want to think in terms of the top 5 most productive nations in the world. (I assume China is at least one of the 5 --how do their citizens feel about internet gambling/ or is their freedom so limited there as not to even talk about it. ?) Lots of Chinese restaurants in the US makes me think China is not a good example, but probably should be included when we talk about productive nations. But there are still 3 or 4 more nations . Is Sweden one of them?
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

If you talk about productive countries you should put that in relation to the internet penetration of the country and the population. For example France is going to not allow there citizen to bet offshore. Two founder of Bwin (large austrian online bookie that always screw you) were arrested in France a few month ago. France authorities also wants to talk to chiefs from offshore bookies from Malta. Unibet(Malta, swedish owned), a large bookie in France and Scandinavia was banned for example to have their logo on a cyclingteam in France. The goverment in France are talking about to do the same thing as the US are doing against offshore bookies. France by the way, have also a state owned bettingcompany...
Bottomline: Lots of governments in Europe want their pieces of the cake and they think offshorebookies are just pain in the ass.
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

If you talk about productive countries you should put that in relation to the internet penetration of the country and the population. For example France is going to not allow there citizen to bet offshore. Two founder of Bwin (large austrian online bookie that always screw you) were arrested in France a few month ago. France authorities also wants to talk to chiefs from offshore bookies from Malta. Unibet(Malta, swedish owned), a large bookie in France and Scandinavia was banned for example to have their logo on a cyclingteam in France. The goverment in France are talking about to do the same thing as the US are doing against offshore bookies. France by the way, have also a state owned bettingcompany...
Bottomline: Lots of governments in Europe want their pieces of the cake and they think offshorebookies are just pain in the ass.

I am certaintly impressed with your knowledge of what I'm asking about. You are one that does seem to (as they say) "GET IT". You're in Sweden-Lucky You! Thanks MUCH for your response. I'm sincere!For me it's a simple question. For countless others not so simple and for even another % a flat No or Yes;) Tolerance is what I'm trying to figure out amoung the MASSES! (yeah--i know-doesn't mean much within a beaucrazy, but as I once heard the words...."in your heart, you know he's right"
Let me rephrase my question: What % of the world's population WITH internet wagering; would consider online wagering illegal?
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Okey my answer : I don't know !
You can see it in this way : If the internet isn't so common in the country (read Africa) then the internetbetting isn't so big and therefore not a big question. Hand in hand goes the tax revenues...
In lots of countries there is much more problems to take care of before thinking about bettingcompanies/offshore/taxes etc.
Education, normal infrastructure etc are much higher on the "must do" list.

Take a look at Asia (not Japan) for example: Asia was good for one thing 25 years ago; producing cheap toys, cloths. Now the level of education, BMP and internet have gone up very much and so goes the interest from bettingcompaniet for Asia. In 10-20 years Asia gonna have the same problem
that we have in Europe & US.

Lots of Chinese companies are now trying to enter the market of Africa. Why ? Because the it's cheaper to produce simple things in Africa than in Asia...
Some people would call it development...

About Sweden: Yeah I like it but there is another side of the coin...
Do you wanna pay 33 % in taxes ? Do you like a VAT that is mostly 25 % on products ? Wanna buy 0.75 l of Jack Daniels ? Pay 50 $ !!!
But we always have the swedish sin and girls...:+oneofaki
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Okey my answer : I don't know !
You can see it in this way : If the internet isn't so common in the country (read Africa) then the internetbetting isn't so big and therefore not a big question. Hand in hand goes the tax revenues...
In lots of countries there is much more problems to take care of before thinking about bettingcompanies/offshore/taxes etc.
Education, normal infrastructure etc are much higher on the "must do" list.

Take a look at Asia (not Japan) for example: Asia was good for one thing 25 years ago; producing cheap toys, cloths. Now the level of education, BMP and internet have gone up very much and so goes the interest from bettingcompaniet for Asia. In 10-20 years Asia gonna have the same problem
that we have in Europe & US.

Lots of Chinese companies are now trying to enter the market of Africa. Why ? Because the it's cheaper to produce simple things in Africa than in Asia...
Some people would call it development...

About Sweden: Yeah I like it but there is another side of the coin...
Do you wanna pay 33 % in taxes ? Do you like a VAT that is mostly 25 % on products ? Wanna buy 0.75 l of Jack Daniels ? Pay 50 $ !!!
But we always have the swedish sin and girls...:+oneofaki
An Honest Swede you are-- and well thought of here-ThANKS!
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

An Honest Swede you are-- and well thought of here-ThANKS!




I've Allways said that the vigorish shoul be paid by the winners not the lossers. Probably the minority opinion.
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

It's always nice to talk to people that have an opinion and have thought about why they have that opinion. I really hate people that just say what the government/priest/media says without having thinking about it.
Maybe I don't agree with the person, but at least the person has used his own brain...
And second; by listening to people with different background, opinions you have to shape up your own brain and opinions.
What a discussion on a saturday night...I?m gonna be addicted to EOG ! :grand:
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

From all perspectives about online gambling.

Where does the US rank amoung the top 5 most industrial nations of the world (or amoung the 5 most populated nations of the world)?

I want to see both or all sides of the question about this. I know the UK, costa Rica and several small nations Antigua, etc. allow it. But want to open my mind about the question.

Really hope for some educated responses.

Sorry for the delay as I just got back home. The US is far and away number one in volume online and it isn't even close. Online gambling just doesn't register in Asia because the bettors do it through regular neighborhood agents or in gaming parlors, both legal and illegal. Places like China and Japan are monster betting markets, but scant dollars are wagered online.

Its just a guess, but I would say the online business breaks down with the US far ahead, was around 50% of the market before last October, with the UK second and other European countries plus Australia bringing up the list.

There are supposedly 90 "jurisdictions" which allow it, but many of these are just special zones in countries like the Kahnawake Tribe in Canada. Trying to figure out where its legal and where it is not is an impossible challenge. In most places it is grey, somewhat illegal but not enforced. Canada has laws against it, pretty clear laws which say you can't bet with anyone but a government sanctioned entity, but they aren't enforcing it. Some places like Costa Rica and the Philippines say it is legal to have sites and take bets, but not from its own citizens. Bottom line is forget about trying to make sense of this, outside of a few cases of clarity here and there its not going at least for the next 5 to 10 years.
 

Woody

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

but many of these are just special zones in countries like the Kahnawake Tribe in Canada.

The Mohawks on the Kahnwake reservation. :cheers
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

The Mohawks on the Kahnwake reservation. :cheers

It is still a gaming zone, just used for illustrative purposes since most people know about it. There are similar zones in many countries, basically job creators with little or no taxes.
 

Mr. Smith

EOG Master
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

hurting gamblers, hurting jobs that could be here, hurting tax revenue lost, its just fucking idiotic what was done. this country is a fucking disgrace.

whatever happened to "give me liberty or give me death"?

I know I certainly do not have liberty :mad:
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

IMO gambling online should be lillegal...yeah I know sacriligious and hypocritical.

But the truth is making it dificult for any but the "smarterst" or at least most devious to do might help a lot of people form being ruined.

All everyone wants to tallk about is the allure and the fantasy of gambling, this romantic view that eveyrone has on it.

If everyone that has ever made a bet stopped and took account of their lives since the first day they started doing it, I would imagine that a VERY small percentage show any kind of profit.

The only people who make money are the touts that sell the "info"/picks, the people that run sites that cow tow to the places that offer betting services, be it touts or the books themselves, and the books.

If people actually made money gambl;ing then these places wouldn't be springing up all over the place. Or wouldn't have.

Take a walk into any Vegas casino or any neighborhood poker room and look at the dregs of society in there. People living on their next bet. People llsoing everything they own in a few months trying to be the next big poker sensation.

It gets glorified and dramatized on TV and people being idiots buy into it.

Rather than showing the 20 or so guys who win show the thousands if not tens of thousands of people who lose all over the country. Or in the very least show a follow up on all the so called winners. Even those guys,a vast majority are busted witin month of winning.

I know this is off base from sports, but same animal different species. When it is so easy to do people get caught up a lot faster. It is one thing to go to Vegas (for a few people) a couple times a year maybe or once every few years and blow some money. It is certainly another to be able to log onto a computer and sit and throw good money after bad into some only God knows where third world country into some scumbags pocket that is just waiting to close up shop and screw everyone.(yea maybe another debate for another time as well).

Gambling is bad, plain and simple. Way too many people are just not good at it, and it is far too addicting to be "good" entertainment. Again hypocritical, but then again I do win. But me winning alos means someone else is losing.

Like I said go sit at a poker table for awhile and take a guy's last dollar and see how that makes you feel. But it is the nature of the beast i guess. Everyone justifies it by saying "well if it wasn't me soemone else would do it". Yea sure, but if the oppurtunity for that loser wasn't there then no one would be taking it. That is the ultimate point.

Yea, SOME people MIGHT do ok and make a little money. Gambling has been widely available on the net for a good 8 years. 5 of them a free for all basically. In that time I didn't see a lot of millionaires created solely from winning. A far greater number of theives and scum got rich stealing from people, or selling a bill of goods that wasn't worth the bandwidth it used up.

But all people want to do is see how it is affecting them. All they know is that they can't get down on LA +2, or Cubs +180, or whatever.

Anyone that hasn't been able to get down reguallry should take a look at their finances I would be willing to predict they have more money than they did at this time last year (if they were betting regulalry that is)

Like I said this is probably sacriligious and a little hypocritical, but unfortunatly most people aren't willing to accept he ugly truths that surround gambling and the seedy underbelly of entities associated with it.

And as far as prohibiton goes, anyone that has lost someone they know to a drunk driver or been affected by alchohol in some way might wish it was back. But once again the glorification and sexiness associated with drinking takes over. And if you want to talk about being hypocritical, watch the news and see the outrage when some drunk slams into someone and kills a whole family, only to have the next commercial be about Capatain Morgan. Sure it was the drunk guys choice to drive, and not the fault of the alcohol companies or society. But if the booze wasn't there to begin with it might not be as common place.

It ultimately coems down to the weakness of humans. All addictions do. You dangle something in front of them they will take it, especially if it makes them feel good or gives them a rise. But if they never got exposed to it in the first place it makes it a lot easier to comabt.

These laws aren't for us, they are for our kids, and our future. It is a lot easier to stop your kid from having sex, drinking, gambling, smoking, etc if they never start in the first place. Much harder to make them stop once they get the taste for it.

Bottomline is the govt can't win the war on drugs, or the war on terrorism, so they wnet after something they feel they will have more success at. Wrong ideal probably, but not a bad step IMO. MOST people SHOULDN'T gamble, we all know that. so sacrificng some freedoms to help our fellowman isn't a bad thing if you ask me.

Like I siad, those that have the will and the means can still do it, making it harder for those that can't control it or won't do it if it isn't easy helps everyone on a much higher level than hitting a 10 dollar 6 team parlay does.
 

gopherbob

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

hurting gamblers, hurting jobs that could be here, hurting tax revenue lost, its just fucking idiotic what was done. this country is a fucking disgrace.

whatever happened to "give me liberty or give me death"?

I know I certainly do not have liberty :mad:

it seems the politicians could care less about increased tax revenues, increased jobs, etc. they're more concerned about passing legislature
protecting the existing gambling (horse racing, indian casinos, etc) interests that are stuffing their campaign war chests with tons of dollars.
 

Santo

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Benke: France won't get away with banning it any more than Italy does. Sweden will have similar problems in the not-so-distant future imo.
 

patswin

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Sorry for the delay as I just got back home. The US is far and away number one in volume online and it isn't even close. Online gambling just doesn't register in Asia because the bettors do it through regular neighborhood agents or in gaming parlors, both legal and illegal. Places like China and Japan are monster betting markets, but scant dollars are wagered online.

Its just a guess, but I would say the online business breaks down with the US far ahead, was around 50% of the market before last October, with the UK second and other European countries plus Australia bringing up the list.

There are supposedly 90 "jurisdictions" which allow it, but many of these are just special zones in countries like the Kahnawake Tribe in Canada. Trying to figure out where its legal and where it is not is an impossible challenge. In most places it is grey, somewhat illegal but not enforced. Canada has laws against it, pretty clear laws which say you can't bet with anyone but a government sanctioned entity, but they aren't enforcing it. Some places like Costa Rica and the Philippines say it is legal to have sites and take bets, but not from its own citizens. Bottom line is forget about trying to make sense of this, outside of a few cases of clarity here and there its not going at least for the next 5 to 10 years.


Interesting response Wild Bill, I had no idea the US was such a leader on the % wagered around the world online. Makes me wonder how some of these places are surviving that cutoff US customers after the legislation was passed. They have to be hurting. Everything I have read online has said the Asian market was a big target but it sounds like it has not materialized. I wonder at what point do some of these places start allowing US bettors back in or risk going out of business?
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Yes, Santo that is true. The banning can't go on forever. But lots of governments tend to be really slow to follow the laws from EU. I mean really slow...if it doesn't fit their on opinion.
We have the same problem here in Sweden for another subject, alcohol.
They are doing absolutly nothing and the illegal alcohol are crossing the border from all directions. Really bright...
 

Santo

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

I would query WB's assertions. Australia is a far more significant market than he gives credit for I think. Asia online is untapped, but growing rapidly from all figures I've seen.
 

Santo

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Yes, Santo that is true. The banning can't go on forever. But lots of governments tend to be really slow to follow the laws from EU. I mean really slow...if it doesn't fit their on opinion.
We have the same problem here in Sweden for another subject, alcohol.
They are doing absolutly nothing and the illegal alcohol are crossing the border from all directions. Really bright...

What it needs in each case is somebody to stand up and take it to a European court. Once the protest is formalized, things happen faster.
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Italy lost the Placanica case but the first thing they said here in Sweden was something like " it doesn't matter ,it was in Italy not in Sweden, we can continue to have our monopoly (more or less)".
My boy, 4 years old, would say the same thing...
 

dirty

EOG Master
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

So In Wanti's opinion We should quit doing anything for pleasure unless we can all win....Hell Lets just quit having sporting events since only one team wins the Championship. Lets quit doing anything that could cause harm to any Human being from Running and Exercising to driving cars to just every day Living..Lets also quit Having Companies that offer people services or outlets for their Pleasure... How Dare anyone make a Living letting people enjoy themselves.... No more Paint ball, Roller Skating, Rec League Sports.... Lets all just Crawl in a hole and work for a living with no Fun....
 

Santo

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Benke: Yes, i should have been more specific. You'll need a test case from each country, until the other countries decide they're going to lose, so it's not worth the expenditure to fight the case.
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

Simply amazing the answers and thought that are provided. All abouve are good have a place in the various matkets etc. ON and on infinitunium.

The greatest speach evre made on the face on this earth to me came from an American (before it WAS independant). Bottom line --he said this this
" I know NOT what course others may take , but as for me give me liberty or give me death".

I doubt this very good man could have visualized 2007 and years earlier. Think he was basically talking about "taxation without representaion"! Not much to do with the World Series winner or The dog plus 8 or any thing to do with man's vices (pleasures if you will today).
The US has become that shining city on the hill that so many want to cometo --We as as Nation have much to be proud of from PH's speech! We don't all agree--HEY THAT"S a GOOD THING! We need honest and open discussion.

I'm STILL talking about the Masses and the Internet! Yes, that's the new part the net. But it has, for good or bad or indifferent linked us together in a WAY NEVER imagined by our forefathers and their goals. No-one and least of all me from my perspective want to hurt one single other person in way. Medicine has made great advances, yet they find problems now and then with a product--but OVERALL --mankind is better off . Gambling doesn't answer the world's problems, but I am thinking that it does advance the fundamental idea of the Patrick Henry's all over the world. " KEY WORD = world" I don't know how any American homes today have internet access inside, nor do I have any idea of the homes in CHINA, The UK Or elsewhere....but the bottom line is the same as in Henry's day--a few hundred years later.. I'm just trying to get a realistic number.
 

Ace

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

IMO gambling online should be lillegal...yeah I know sacriligious and hypocritical.

But the truth is making it dificult for any but the "smarterst" or at least most devious to do might help a lot of people form being ruined.

All everyone wants to tallk about is the allure and the fantasy of gambling, this romantic view that eveyrone has on it.

If everyone that has ever made a bet stopped and took account of their lives since the first day they started doing it, I would imagine that a VERY small percentage show any kind of profit.

The only people who make money are the touts that sell the "info"/picks, the people that run sites that cow tow to the places that offer betting services, be it touts or the books themselves, and the books.

If people actually made money gambl;ing then these places wouldn't be springing up all over the place. Or wouldn't have.

Take a walk into any Vegas casino or any neighborhood poker room and look at the dregs of society in there. People living on their next bet. People llsoing everything they own in a few months trying to be the next big poker sensation.

It gets glorified and dramatized on TV and people being idiots buy into it.

Rather than showing the 20 or so guys who win show the thousands if not tens of thousands of people who lose all over the country. Or in the very least show a follow up on all the so called winners. Even those guys,a vast majority are busted witin month of winning.

I know this is off base from sports, but same animal different species. When it is so easy to do people get caught up a lot faster. It is one thing to go to Vegas (for a few people) a couple times a year maybe or once every few years and blow some money. It is certainly another to be able to log onto a computer and sit and throw good money after bad into some only God knows where third world country into some scumbags pocket that is just waiting to close up shop and screw everyone.(yea maybe another debate for another time as well).

Gambling is bad, plain and simple. Way too many people are just not good at it, and it is far too addicting to be "good" entertainment. Again hypocritical, but then again I do win. But me winning alos means someone else is losing.

Like I said go sit at a poker table for awhile and take a guy's last dollar and see how that makes you feel. But it is the nature of the beast i guess. Everyone justifies it by saying "well if it wasn't me soemone else would do it". Yea sure, but if the oppurtunity for that loser wasn't there then no one would be taking it. That is the ultimate point.

Yea, SOME people MIGHT do ok and make a little money. Gambling has been widely available on the net for a good 8 years. 5 of them a free for all basically. In that time I didn't see a lot of millionaires created solely from winning. A far greater number of theives and scum got rich stealing from people, or selling a bill of goods that wasn't worth the bandwidth it used up.

But all people want to do is see how it is affecting them. All they know is that they can't get down on LA +2, or Cubs +180, or whatever.

Anyone that hasn't been able to get down reguallry should take a look at their finances I would be willing to predict they have more money than they did at this time last year (if they were betting regulalry that is)

Like I said this is probably sacriligious and a little hypocritical, but unfortunatly most people aren't willing to accept he ugly truths that surround gambling and the seedy underbelly of entities associated with it.

And as far as prohibiton goes, anyone that has lost someone they know to a drunk driver or been affected by alchohol in some way might wish it was back. But once again the glorification and sexiness associated with drinking takes over. And if you want to talk about being hypocritical, watch the news and see the outrage when some drunk slams into someone and kills a whole family, only to have the next commercial be about Capatain Morgan. Sure it was the drunk guys choice to drive, and not the fault of the alcohol companies or society. But if the booze wasn't there to begin with it might not be as common place.

It ultimately coems down to the weakness of humans. All addictions do. You dangle something in front of them they will take it, especially if it makes them feel good or gives them a rise. But if they never got exposed to it in the first place it makes it a lot easier to comabt.

These laws aren't for us, they are for our kids, and our future. It is a lot easier to stop your kid from having sex, drinking, gambling, smoking, etc if they never start in the first place. Much harder to make them stop once they get the taste for it.

Bottomline is the govt can't win the war on drugs, or the war on terrorism, so they wnet after something they feel they will have more success at. Wrong ideal probably, but not a bad step IMO. MOST people SHOULDN'T gamble, we all know that. so sacrificng some freedoms to help our fellowman isn't a bad thing if you ask me.

Like I siad, those that have the will and the means can still do it, making it harder for those that can't control it or won't do it if it isn't easy helps everyone on a much higher level than hitting a 10 dollar 6 team parlay does.
are you going to ban credit cards-----there are a boatload of people in debt up to their eyeballs, i don't see one govt official complain ----damn son that credit card debt is good for the economy
 

Lawrence

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

personal responsibility and accountability go a long way.
 

patswin

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

IMO gambling online should be lillegal...yeah I know sacriligious and hypocritical.

But the truth is making it dificult for any but the "smarterst" or at least most devious to do might help a lot of people form being ruined.

All everyone wants to tallk about is the allure and the fantasy of gambling, this romantic view that eveyrone has on it.

If everyone that has ever made a bet stopped and took account of their lives since the first day they started doing it, I would imagine that a VERY small percentage show any kind of profit.

The only people who make money are the touts that sell the "info"/picks, the people that run sites that cow tow to the places that offer betting services, be it touts or the books themselves, and the books.

If people actually made money gambl;ing then these places wouldn't be springing up all over the place. Or wouldn't have.

Take a walk into any Vegas casino or any neighborhood poker room and look at the dregs of society in there. People living on their next bet. People llsoing everything they own in a few months trying to be the next big poker sensation.

It gets glorified and dramatized on TV and people being idiots buy into it.

Rather than showing the 20 or so guys who win show the thousands if not tens of thousands of people who lose all over the country. Or in the very least show a follow up on all the so called winners. Even those guys,a vast majority are busted witin month of winning.

I know this is off base from sports, but same animal different species. When it is so easy to do people get caught up a lot faster. It is one thing to go to Vegas (for a few people) a couple times a year maybe or once every few years and blow some money. It is certainly another to be able to log onto a computer and sit and throw good money after bad into some only God knows where third world country into some scumbags pocket that is just waiting to close up shop and screw everyone.(yea maybe another debate for another time as well).

Gambling is bad, plain and simple. Way too many people are just not good at it, and it is far too addicting to be "good" entertainment. Again hypocritical, but then again I do win. But me winning alos means someone else is losing.

Like I said go sit at a poker table for awhile and take a guy's last dollar and see how that makes you feel. But it is the nature of the beast i guess. Everyone justifies it by saying "well if it wasn't me soemone else would do it". Yea sure, but if the oppurtunity for that loser wasn't there then no one would be taking it. That is the ultimate point.

Yea, SOME people MIGHT do ok and make a little money. Gambling has been widely available on the net for a good 8 years. 5 of them a free for all basically. In that time I didn't see a lot of millionaires created solely from winning. A far greater number of theives and scum got rich stealing from people, or selling a bill of goods that wasn't worth the bandwidth it used up.

But all people want to do is see how it is affecting them. All they know is that they can't get down on LA +2, or Cubs +180, or whatever.

Anyone that hasn't been able to get down reguallry should take a look at their finances I would be willing to predict they have more money than they did at this time last year (if they were betting regulalry that is)

Like I said this is probably sacriligious and a little hypocritical, but unfortunatly most people aren't willing to accept he ugly truths that surround gambling and the seedy underbelly of entities associated with it.

And as far as prohibiton goes, anyone that has lost someone they know to a drunk driver or been affected by alchohol in some way might wish it was back. But once again the glorification and sexiness associated with drinking takes over. And if you want to talk about being hypocritical, watch the news and see the outrage when some drunk slams into someone and kills a whole family, only to have the next commercial be about Capatain Morgan. Sure it was the drunk guys choice to drive, and not the fault of the alcohol companies or society. But if the booze wasn't there to begin with it might not be as common place.

It ultimately coems down to the weakness of humans. All addictions do. You dangle something in front of them they will take it, especially if it makes them feel good or gives them a rise. But if they never got exposed to it in the first place it makes it a lot easier to comabt.

These laws aren't for us, they are for our kids, and our future. It is a lot easier to stop your kid from having sex, drinking, gambling, smoking, etc if they never start in the first place. Much harder to make them stop once they get the taste for it.

Bottomline is the govt can't win the war on drugs, or the war on terrorism, so they wnet after something they feel they will have more success at. Wrong ideal probably, but not a bad step IMO. MOST people SHOULDN'T gamble, we all know that. so sacrificng some freedoms to help our fellowman isn't a bad thing if you ask me.

Like I siad, those that have the will and the means can still do it, making it harder for those that can't control it or won't do it if it isn't easy helps everyone on a much higher level than hitting a 10 dollar 6 team parlay does.

Also then why not ban the stock market, that is legalized gambling right? And also ban all public lotteries like Mega Millions too....
 

Ace

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

lets ban

coca cola---obese people
smoking----that shit kills
beer---same as above
ice cream----clogged arteries
chinese food----msg

damn i feel better now----stress is gone cause i don't have to think for myself----i can let the govt think for me
 

Santo

EOG Veteran
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

The US has become that shining city on the hill that so many want to come to



A majority of people believe that Israel and Iran have a mainly negative influence in the world, a poll for the BBC World Service suggests. It shows that the two countries are closely followed by the United States and North Korea.




Good company ;-)
 

Whoson1st

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

The poor man's stock market with out a Broker! (sports gamblings)
See American big business survies ONLY on lies or at the very least the best conartist..
If you doubt that you are smking ONE STRONG ciggie!
Even if I'm totally wrong there--and I doubt it; the total Economy is based on getting rich with doing NOTHING! ( eh ah--buy a nice house--it goes Up--Sell--so forth and so on!)
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

I have never heard of anyone becoming addicted to the stock market or to the lottery, but it is possible I guess. Most peopel only play the lottery when a jackpot gets huge, they aren't online looking at trackers figuring out whhich number should be their mege number. Credit cards is a stupid correlation, but yes interest rates on them are crazy, and people should have enough brains to not use ones that have such high rates. But at least you get something out of them...the ability to (if used correctly) to build up more ability to buy and own something that you can't pay for all at one, a house or a car for example. So credit cards when used correctly are a very necessary part of our society and ones ability to actually have something that will in fact give them a return on their investment.

The point is that most activities like paintball, rollerblading, rec league sports, going to the movies etc don't give people some get rich quick idea in their heads, nor are they addictive as far as I know.

There is a difference between entertainment and the thought that you can actually profit from betting sports. Even with the stock market argument. The stock market is regulated and legal. So is sports gambling in Las Vegas. Also with the stock market (unless there is a major scam which we have unfortunately seen in the past few years) you aren't going to lose everything you have. It is most generally used as a LOW RISK alternative for people to "invest" money in.

Most people might start out as casual bettors, but a lot of people don't know when to quit, and ultimately like so many people we have all seen come and go on these forums...the ones that give thier sob stories and how they can't afford to gamble anymore, and or their family and personal lives have taken major hits and that gambling and the need to get the next bet in is interfering with them, that they lose sight of the really important things in life.

If you are out to dinner with a spouse or significant other, or even out with the family in general and HAVE to run to a TV or use your phone to check the score i.e. it can't wait til you get home to see (because you can't do anything about it anyways) then you have some issues. Unfortuantely that is a vast majority of people that start gambling.

There is nothing wrong with betting per se, like I siad in my original statements, most people are too weak to know when to stop, or too stupid or get sucked into some make believe world and they lose way too much before they figure it out.

Most people don't quit gambling once they start, usually they just get too broke or burn every bookie they know so they have absolutely no means to make a bet. Thus as I said, taking the internet, and the ease of making bets away from them helps them and anyone else like them.

Poker is still legal, as is horse racing, so if the jones for action is that bad you have those outlets. If you need to gamble on sports so bad move to Vegas. Or like I said circumvent the law and do it offshore with a place that will still take the bet. The act of screwing the government will give you the boost you need anyways, and the betting will become the secondary fix. As long as you are in action its all good.
 

kidslick

EOG Dedicated
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

hurting gamblers, hurting jobs that could be here, hurting tax revenue lost, its just fucking idiotic what was done. this country is a fucking disgrace.

whatever happened to "give me liberty or give me death"?

I know I certainly do not have liberty :mad:


whatever happened to "Land of the Free''
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

I have never heard of anyone becoming addicted to the stock market or to the lottery, but it is possible I guess. Most peopel only play the lottery when a jackpot gets huge, they aren't online looking at trackers figuring out whhich number should be their mege number. Credit cards is a stupid correlation, but yes interest rates on them are crazy, and people should have enough brains to not use ones that have such high rates. But at least you get something out of them...the ability to (if used correctly) to build up more ability to buy and own something that you can't pay for all at one, a house or a car for example. So credit cards when used correctly are a very necessary part of our society and ones ability to actually have something that will in fact give them a return on their investment.

The point is that most activities like paintball, rollerblading, rec league sports, going to the movies etc don't give people some get rich quick idea in their heads, nor are they addictive as far as I know.

There is a difference between entertainment and the thought that you can actually profit from betting sports. Even with the stock market argument. The stock market is regulated and legal. So is sports gambling in Las Vegas. Also with the stock market (unless there is a major scam which we have unfortunately seen in the past few years) you aren't going to lose everything you have. It is most generally used as a LOW RISK alternative for people to "invest" money in.

Most people might start out as casual bettors, but a lot of people don't know when to quit, and ultimately like so many people we have all seen come and go on these forums...the ones that give thier sob stories and how they can't afford to gamble anymore, and or their family and personal lives have taken major hits and that gambling and the need to get the next bet in is interfering with them, that they lose sight of the really important things in life.

If you are out to dinner with a spouse or significant other, or even out with the family in general and HAVE to run to a TV or use your phone to check the score i.e. it can't wait til you get home to see (because you can't do anything about it anyways) then you have some issues. Unfortuantely that is a vast majority of people that start gambling.

There is nothing wrong with betting per se, like I siad in my original statements, most people are too weak to know when to stop, or too stupid or get sucked into some make believe world and they lose way too much before they figure it out.

Most people don't quit gambling once they start, usually they just get too broke or burn every bookie they know so they have absolutely no means to make a bet. Thus as I said, taking the internet, and the ease of making bets away from them helps them and anyone else like them.

Poker is still legal, as is horse racing, so if the jones for action is that bad you have those outlets. If you need to gamble on sports so bad move to Vegas. Or like I said circumvent the law and do it offshore with a place that will still take the bet. The act of screwing the government will give you the boost you need anyways, and the betting will become the secondary fix. As long as you are in action its all good.

You've lost it man. The vast majority of sports gamblers damn well know they won't beat it in the long run, but its entertaining to try their luck. Just like all other forms of gambling. Maybe this doesn't apply to people you know or people in the forums, but clearly for most this is just a form of entertainment. Why ban people's choice of entertainment, especially when 95% or more of them do it without becoming addicted?
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

I would query WB's assertions. Australia is a far more significant market than he gives credit for I think. Asia online is untapped, but growing rapidly from all figures I've seen.

These are figures taken from studies done by investment bankers. They may not be 100% correct, but better than guessing at it. Australia is a huge gambling market, but relatively few are betting online because gambling is fairly easy to get at and people there have no qualms about it. Part of the reason the US is so dominant in this is the high level of "shame" that goes with gambling. To have it in your home prevents this. Seems ridiculous, but it is very true. A lot of people want to gamble, but don't want to be seen as gamblers. In Australia and most of Europe you just don't have this stigma.
 
Re: Internet Gambling - Lost Opportunities Hurting Americans by WILD BILL

If I talk to someone in Sweden and says that i'm doing some money from sportsbettings, they think I?m a little bit weird (maybe I am). Like I was a cousin to E.T...
If you win a million in "Wheel of fortune" or something like that, you?re a hero but if you doing the same money on working hard with your company your a tax cheater. That's Sweden in a nutshell. The law of Jante rules... :whatever:
 
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